One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

You are right, just looked it up.

Excerpt from Ace's novel:

• Shanks becomes terrible if he becomes angry
  Whitebeard becomes terrible if someone did bad things against his rights ( Like family ) , He is the strongest pirate in the world !
• Mama becomes terrible if she is unhappy ! Her family is the most terrible one in the world !
• Kaido is terrible even only with his own Existence ! He is the most powerful creature in the world !
• Before the time of Yonkou, it was a time of Roger, Whitebeard and Shiki.
• Charlotte Linlin had her territory at that time and was already a big treat.
• Whitebeard and Big mom are around same generation. Shanks and Kaidou are in a younger generation.

Since the incidents on the novel were before time skip, or even before Luffy set out for his journey, the epithet has stuck around for a while.

So he surely is not unbeatable, but it still implies he is hard to take down mano e mano.

This is overly confusing.

WB was a creature and a pirate.

Kaido is a creature and a pirate.

How can anyone say one is above the other?

 

[Fox666]

I wonder if BIg Mom's role in this arc is to show us how powerful Luffy's gotten. Like, Big Mom probably lost her memory so Chopper and others would be more willing to take her to Luffy, and when she sees Luffy being Luffy, she'll get her memory back. THen, it'll be a fight in which Luffy will show how much stronger and asspulls he's gotten because of the training since if he can at least damage Big Mom, then he MIGHT stand a chance against Kaidou.

I think if Luffy can fight another Yonko, he would be almost there... compared to the enormous gap between the Yonko and their commanders.

 

[kcd]

This is overly confusing.

WB was a creature and a pirate.

Kaido is a creature and a pirate.

How can anyone say one is above the other?

It's not confusing at all. Kaido was stronger than Whitebeared even when he was alive.

Think of it this simple way:

My dog is the strongest dog in the world. But that doesn't mean it's automatically stronger than other creatures like Lions and Tigers. It just means that when it comes to dogs alone, my dog is the strongest dog.

Kaido is hyped as a creature, not a man. So his tittle is above that of WB.

It means that amongst Lions, Dragons, Humans and every other creature that exists in the world... Kaido is the strongest creature. Which means he's stronger than whitebeared, a human, who in turn is stronger than every other humans (the strongest man so to say).

But of course, for this to be without conflict, Kaido has to be of different race other than the human race.

 

[Fox666]

Although Kaido not counting as a "man" would be a logical theory, the Ace novel goes on another direction.

From the novel:

[Chapter 3]
According to some information collected by Skull in Spade Pirates, Whitebeard is the strongest in the world.
But the author of this novel says it is not easy to define the word "strongest".
Skull loves anything about pirates and collects pirates goods. He believes Kaido is the strongest in 1 on 1 fight.
He adds that Kaido is the "strongest creature". He wouldn't die even if you tried to kill him; Big Mom is the "strongest family";
Whitebeard is the "strongest pirate" from the way he has lived.

It seems Kaido is the strongest in terms of combat. Whitebeard would be the mightiest pirate, since he has always been called the closest to One Piece.

 

[I Am Atomic]

I really want to know what makes Kaido so superior in a 1v1, so much that even if he fights WB he might win. That is crazy. But he has been captured 7 times and that must mean he has been ganged up on.

I don't mind WB being weaker than Kaido tbh. WB was a normal guy who was OP, nothing special apart from pure willpower and arrogance to go with it. That's why we love him. Kaido and BM are abnormal beings.

We also know WB have never been defeated. When he died it said that he never ran away.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I really want to know what makes Kaido so superior in a 1v1, so much that even if he fights WB he might win. That is crazy. But he has been captured 7 times and that must mean he has been ganged up on.

I don't mind WB being weaker than Kaido tbh. WB was a normal guy who was OP, nothing special apart from pure willpower and arrogance to go with it. That's why we love him. Kaido and BM are abnormal beings.

We also know WB have never been defeated. When he died it said that he never ran away.

You can be defeated and not run away. The 2 are not dependant on eachother.

Either way, I'm of the opinion that Whitebeard>Kaido. Just an opinion tho

 

[I Am Atomic]

You can be defeated and not run away.

Yes I know, but I am being a little realistic. I know Luffy and all only survive due to plot armour. However, if WB was defeated why won't the enemies kill him?

And I agree. I just don't see WB losing to anyone even though Oda said that in a 1v1 bet on Kaido.

 

[hokageji]

This is overly confusing.

WB was a creature and a pirate.

Kaido is a creature and a pirate.

How can anyone say one is above the other?

I see it this way.

WB being the strongest pirate can be interpreted in 2 ways...
as an individual pirate
or as a pirate group
is the word in japanese the same for pirate and pirate group, or do we have different words? If its the same, their lies the confusion.

if its individual, then its countering since Kaido is a pirate as well.
Kaido being the strongest creature definitely implies the strongest living thing, so that'll include all the sea-kings, all the marines etc.
again, it also depends how the word strength is interpreted. But my best bet is Kaido = strongest living thing and WB = strongest pirate group or area controlled.

 

[XXGenesis]

I'm not arguing, i'm stating how manga works. You and others can have your opinions, but in the grand scheme of things those are irrelevant, Luffy will beat Kaido somehow in this arc.

Just shonen Manga...Or One Piece which happens yo be a Shounen manga. Our opinions are relevant yo the discussion at hand. We want Luffy vs Kaidou to be epic story telling. Criticism about the current power up is there because its not all that believable at the moment. We'll have to sit back and watch how it plays out. However, many dont see the power up justifying his win at the moment.

It has been quite different from that post-timeskip, especially for Sanji. If the author is using any formula, Sanji is going to get his ass kicked to prove that the villain is a real treat...

ODA's formula for sure has changed. I can see Sanji getting his ass kicked this arc but itll be to overcome a strong opponent. Ironically I've noticed we've been to critical of Sanji during WCI, as none of the SH during their arcs have any 1v1...I guess many thought ODA would change that formula Post Time Skip, but he hasn't.

Also Zoro, has more fight time and feats than Sanji for the NW..But he's suffering from ODA's negligence also.

Are you trying to give a reason as to why Sanji lost or would've been severely injured or dead against Doffy?
Really?

Sanji stood no chance against Doffy, neither did Zoro. Doflamingo was superior to those 2. End of discussion.

Until they get and backup their respective power ups (Sanji's gotten his), they are still inferior to the likes of Doflamingo.

Probably by the end of Wano arc we'll be able to say Zoro or Sanji can fight toe to toe with Doflamingo and maybe get the win.
But not now.
They have a lot to prove. A whole lot.

Lol, I like your post. But haven't seen you rebuke those that think Sanji & Zoro can take down YC, or will accomplish so during Wano Arc.

Doffy imo on the Power level chart of OP, is sort of an enigma. I view him as a mini Yonkou. In terms of how big and powerful his crew was, including himself. Doffy in comparison to other SuperNovas & Yonkou executives..He ranks pretty damn high just under somebody like Cracker.

So Yea I agree. I don't think Zoro or Sanji can beat Doffy w/o Extreme Diff & hyping mostly due to his durability, endurance & stamina.

 

[hokageji]

Its actually true, Doffy does work like a mini yonko.he also followed the card theme similar to Kaido

Mingo in strength is comparable to a Yonko commander. We even saw how his fights were with certain WB commanders, so that comes as no surprise.

To me he'll remain the best villain of the series till this point atleast.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

@kcd

That still makes no sense with all due respect.

Kaido is a pirate too and as a pirate he must have been weaker than Whitebeard, since WB was known as the strongest pirate in the world. Same logic can be applied to WB of course.


@hokageji

If there's any room for interpretation then I'd go with your take on this issue. But still it's not 100% confirmed, you know...


It's said that one on one Kaido would win. But it's also more of a hearsay kind of thing. I still think in terms of attack power WB should be put above everyone else, but Kaido is obviously physically superior.

But IMO prime WB is no doubt stronger.

 

[M3J]

I really want to know what makes Kaido so superior in a 1v1, so much that even if he fights WB he might win. That is crazy. But he has been captured 7 times and that must mean he has been ganged up on.

I don't mind WB being weaker than Kaido tbh. WB was a normal guy who was OP, nothing special apart from pure willpower and arrogance to go with it. That's why we love him. Kaido and BM are abnormal beings.

We also know WB have never been defeated. When he died it said that he never ran away.

Whitebeard was probably stronger because of his devil fruit, it was stated to have the ability to destroy the world. It also kept taking Akainu down, and Blackbeard chose to get that devil fruit out of all the other devil fruit. Whitebeard was pretty strong as it was, but gura gura no mi put him on another level.

 

[Admiral Teach]

You will all learn to fear me soon enough. And enough of this talk about the Old Man! He's history! Zehahahaha! I'll do thinks you never saw with that Fruit!

But yeah, the Gura Gura is amazing. The things it can do. It's funny how nobody's talked in the newspapers about my "practicing".

But seriously, there is also a reason why I waited until Shirohige got old. Damn it if he wouldn't die even with half his face blown away. Shows Akainu's got teeth, too!

If only I had known at the time about Perona's fruit, I would have gone for that one. Instant win.

 

[kcd]

@kcd

That still makes no sense with all due respect.

Not even a little sense?! Sorry but, I don't see my "due" respect in that sentence.

Kaido is a pirate too and as a pirate he must have been weaker than Whitebeard, since WB was known as the strongest pirate in the world. Same logic can be applied to WB of course.

From Ace's novel, we were told:
Whitebeard was the strongest pirate from the way he has lived. Like you, I do wonder what they mean here.

Kaido on the other hand was literally stated to be the strongest creature outrightly.

But like you said, it's all open for interpretation. I can rephrase that sentence and say that just because of the way Kaido has lived as a pirate, Whitebeard was seen as the stronger pirate. But does that automatically mean he suddenly became the stronger creature over Kaido?!

You can apply the same logic, but, it doesn't change much, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Not even a little sense?! Sorry but, I don't see my "due" respect in that sentence.

Wait what? How did you come to such conclusion? To me it doesn't, what else should I've said?

From Ace's novel, we were told:
Whitebeard was the strongest pirate from the way he has lived. Like you, I do wonder what they mean here.

Kaido on the other hand was literally stated to be the strongest creature outrightly.

But like you said, it's all open for interpretation. I can rephrase that sentence and say that just because of the way Kaido has lived as a pirate, Whitebeard was seen as the stronger pirate. But does that automatically mean he suddenly became the stronger creature over Kaido?!

You can apply the same logic, but, it doesn't change much, IMO.

Yeah, I don't know, but if prime WB ≈ Roger — makes more sense to believe that he'd still have an upper hand in an actual battle.

WB is always put above everyone else (save Roger). Like when Mama comments on how she could take down Kaido, Shanks and EVEN WB if only her plan was a success.

Of course she meant their respective crews too, but from the display we got in Marineford I don't see WB pirates being superior to Kaido's crew.

In other words, WB was deemed as the one who is closest in strength to Roger even when he was sick. That might be due to the lack of information on his health condition, but healthy WB surely seems as a much bigger threat when compared to Kaido.

 

[kcd]

Wait what? How did you come to such conclusion? To me it doesn't, what else should I've said?

Seriously!? You literally said my thoughts made no sense, even though I was specific about how Kaido was stated to be the strongest creature.
Funny in this quote, you sounded as if you didn't know what I was talking about. But then went on to ask what else would you have said.

Yeah, I don't know, but if prime WB ≈ Roger — makes more sense to believe that he'd still have an upper hand in an actual battle.

WB is always put above everyone else (save Roger). Like when Mama comments on how she could take down Kaido, Shanks and EVEN WB if only her plan was a success.

Of course she meant their respective crews too, but from the display we got in Marineford I don't see WB pirates being superior to Kaido's crew.

In other words, WB was deemed as the one who is closest in strength to Roger even when he was sick. That might be due to the lack of information on his health condition, but healthy WB surely seems as a much bigger threat when compared to Kaido.

Again, I'm not implying you aren't entitled to your opinion. But the reason why I quoted you in the first place was because you said "to the house" it was confusing to you. So I gave my two cents on the matter.

But after reading your later posts, it seems you weren't confused at all. Instead, it showed you already had your mind made up on who was stronger. So my contribution was irrelevant in the first place.

But sure, I have no argument if you think the strongest creature isn't (or wasn't) the strongest after all.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Seriously!? You literally said my thoughts made no sense, even though I was specific about how Kaido was stated to be the strongest creature.
Funny in this quote, you sounded as if you didn't know what I was talking about. But then went on to ask what else would you have said.

I don't know what could have sparked this confusion. I simply wanted to say that these statements are probably not something we should take at face value, because they are ambiguous and mutually exclusive.

And as for "not making sense", again, no offence meant. But you gave an example with dogs. The strongest dog isn't necessarily stronger than a lion, that's indisputable.

However in our case we're discussing Kaido and Whitebeard who are simultaneously creatures and pirates.

 

[nik87]

Strongest man and the strongest creature is pretty clear, there is no confusion there and Kaido wins in that comparison.
The only confusion creates WB's title strongest pirate because it doesn't specify if it is just the individual or it includes all the backing a pirate can get and if it's the latter then WB wins since I doubt any other pirate(EoS Luffy aside) is able to summon such back up as WB did in Marineford war.

 

[SupremeMod]

Strongest man and the strongest creature is pretty clear, there is no confusion there and Kaido wins in that comparison.
The only confusion creates WB's title strongest pirate because it doesn't specify if it is just the individual or it includes all the backing a pirate can get and if it's the latter then WB wins since I doubt any other pirate(EoS Luffy aside) is able to summon such back up as WB did in Marineford war.

I haven't bothered reading the discussion up to this point, but it seems fairly obvious that Old WB >= Shanks >= Kaido

Kaido, in my opinion, even reflects in anger about WB's death because he thought WB was basically the only person that could kill him.

 

[nik87]

I haven't bothered reading the discussion up to this point, but it seems fairly obvious that Old WB >= Shanks >= Kaido

Kaido, in my opinion, even reflects in anger about WB's death because he thought WB was basically the only person that could kill him.

Why do you place Shanks above Kaido or anyone else when - if it's 1vs1, bet on Kaido?
Also, I think each Yonko is able to kill any other Yonko but the one who prevails the most is Kaido, that's why we should bet on him.