Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:
Shanks v Mihawk
Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
Zoro > Luffy
Zoro v Sanji
Is Smoker a top 30 character?
Mihawk's rank within the story
Law having CoC currently.
Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.
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Not saying, he won't do great. Though you can't say it's still possible after how he went down in one hit by Kamazou. Oda knows how strong characters will be, so he isn't going to make Zoro go beyond unrealistic on facing 2 serious fighters when he couldn't make him withstand something like this early. Orochi is more his final opponent from how it looks. King will be handed by someone else in the end.
I can't believe you are actually discussing about something this trivial... Oda can do whatever he wants, even if it doesn't make sense at all. He already gave proof of that in Dressrosa arc, where Zoro was panting just by chasing after Pica (something senseless for those who read Dragon Ball and remember Goku VS Tenshinhan 2° fight). The biggest (and worst) proof was Diamante VS Kyros, where Diamante ("the genius" of Doflamingo's crew ) laughed all the time because Kyros couldn't keep up with him, and his fight consisted of throwing confetti and then shooting Kyros on the leg... just to have Kyros stand up afterwards and one-shotting Diamante .
So yeah, Oda doesn't "know" his characters' strength. We can have Zoro one-shot the shogun now, and in some days hold his own against King.
I can't believe you are actually discussing about something this trivial... Oda can do whatever he wants, even if it doesn't make sense at all. He already gave proof of that in Dressrosa arc, where Zoro was panting just by chasing after Pica (something senseless for those who read Dragon Ball and remember Goku VS Tenshinhan 2° fight). The biggest (and worst) proof was Diamante VS Kyros, where Diamante ("the genius" of Doflamingo's crew ) laughed all the time because Kyros couldn't keep up with him, and his fight consisted of throwing confetti and then shooting Kyros on the leg... just to have Kyros stand up afterwards and one-shotting Diamante .
So yeah, Oda doesn't "know" his characters' strength. We can have Zoro one-shot the shogun now, and in some days hold his own against King.
Everything. It's unbelievable if he does. You see the fanbase, they lost faith majority on his durability after that fight. Plus feel out of nowhere to face King since nothing leads to a fight between them. So far by direction, Oda wants Zoro face Orochi as final fight opponent. I don't see him winning two fights in a row like that especially King is one of the YC to boot. This is arc is showing he isn't insane in stamina like Luffy, so don't think we can see him win an serious fight to move into another serious and tougher fight for him to win as that be unrealistic on how far he can go.
I didn't lose faith in Zoro's durability. One instance where he fainted from a slash, when out of tons of injuries he's gotten, he's still fought or fought before even recovering 1/4 way through. There's no reason to believe his durability is bad.
I didn't lose faith in Zoro's durability. One instance where he fainted from a slash, when out of tons of injuries he's gotten, he's still fought or fought before even recovering 1/4 way through. There's no reason to believe his durability is bad.
Not everyone, but majority and some are rethinking on how strong Zoro is after that display as you don't hear much fans say he could now fight King after that which is understandable especially how Oda is pushing more of an Zoro vs Orochi as final fight at the Festival from the looks of it. He still got durability, but not same as pre-timeksip if your able to faint after an stab wound when he stood for hours on his feet after taking in Luffy's pain by Kuma that left shock pains within his body to the point he bleed both inside and outside. So until he retrain and get stronger to have durablity like that, we shouldn't think on him being same durability as before is what I am saying.
I don't think anyone really lost faith in Zoro's durability, maybe only those who don't understand Zoro or what happened with Kamazou.
Kamazou was never a threat for Zoro and the injury he gave to Zoro would never had happened if there wasn't for Gyukimaru trying to cheap shot him.
That injury from Kamazou was probably the 2nd worse injury Zoro ever received and the worst injury he didn't voluntarily take.
The injury from Mihawk was worse but it was voluntary, he stood with his arms spread and the sword sheathed, taking it like the badass that he is.
The stab from Kamazou if probably worse than Kuma's pain bubble since it wasn't voluntary and he didn't faint from Kuma right away and we are not 100% sure why he fainted in Wano. Was it from the hunger or from the injury?
Such clean stab from Kamazou would never go through in 1vs1 or when Zoro is aware of fighting more opponents, he is the same beast that he was and the fainting in Wano means nothing in my book. He can take on several opponents in this arc without serious issues until the final battle.
I don't think anyone really lost faith in Zoro's durability, maybe only those who don't understand Zoro or what happened with Kamazou.
Kamazou was never a threat for Zoro and the injury he gave to Zoro would never had happened if there wasn't for Gyukimaru trying to cheap shot him.
That injury from Kamazou was probably the 2nd worse injury Zoro ever received and the worst injury he didn't voluntarily take.
The injury from Mihawk was worse but it was voluntary, he stood with his arms spread and the sword sheathed, taking it like the badass that he is.
The stab from Kamazou if probably worse than Kuma's pain bubble since it wasn't voluntary and he didn't faint from Kuma right away and we are not 100% sure why he fainted in Wano. Was it from the hunger or from the injury?
Such clean stab from Kamazou would never go through in 1vs1 or when Zoro is aware of fighting more opponents, he is the same beast that he was and the fainting in Wano means nothing in my book. He can take on several opponents in this arc without serious issues until the final battle.
Look at other websites as some are not confident anymore on fighting King anymore. Not me saying this, I just look around on other websites. It didn't do good favors on Zoro's abilities. Highly doubt it was worser than Kuma's attack. Just because it stabs, doesn't mean it's most effective out of it. Plus's Kuma's attack was an relentless to his body more to hitting all angles compare to an shoulder wound. There is no evidence to put it was more damaging or stronger than Kuma's attack really.
The reason he faint is because he need to retrain himself. Simple. If there was another way why it happened, it would have been said now, but instead Zoro takes full blame over it and said it was his bad for it since he need to retrain his body more. He face multiple opponents and still could hold his own especially in pre-timeskip. It shouldn't be an issue for him now, but it is, so again he isn't as durable as before no matter how you want to find through it as Oda knew what he was doing when he felt Zoro will faint on his own from it.
Whether Kamazou was a threat or not, doesn't excuse he still could have dodge or use Haki in that crucial moment. He isn't far above as others thought, which why I feel everyone will have their training sessions before Festival to make them believable on taking Kaido and his group down more including Luffy, Sanji, and Zoro since they are main ones of the Strawhats who are taking Kaido's people the most.
He trained heavily for 2 years under Mihawk and he somehow lost on durability? How do you come to such a conclusion?
He took the blame for the injury because he wasn't careful enough, he doesn't need to retrain anything. Zoro trained more than any other character in the series. Keep reading, you will see that he will go through this arc without training anything about his durability, the only thing he might train is Kinemon's ability to cut fire and explosions as he showed interest in that before.
No, he couldn't use Haki to protect himself from Kamazou's stab, Haki is not a protection against such injuries when it comes to opponents of such caliber. Luffy used Hardening on his hand and was still cut from Cracker. It only works against opponents who are far weaker(Vergo and Tashigi).
I have looked on other websites, nobody questions Zoro's durability and the only reason we have been hinted at as for why he fainted was hunger as his stomach growled in the panel before he faints.
I would agree that Kuma's injury is worse but since you value the faint... Still, 2nd or 3rd worse injury for sure, the worst involuntary. If the reason for fainting is hunger it's still a lame reason and I seriously doubt it's because of injury as he didn't faint from Kuma. Yes, he fought more opponents at the same time, here he thought Gyukimaru wouldn't attack anymore until he is done with Kamazou, that's what you don't understand.
Not everyone, but majority and some are rethinking on how strong Zoro is after that display as you don't hear much fans say he could now fight King after that which is understandable especially how Oda is pushing more of an Zoro vs Orochi as final fight at the Festival from the looks of it. He still got durability, but not same as pre-timeksip if your able to faint after an stab wound when he stood for hours on his feet after taking in Luffy's pain by Kuma that left shock pains within his body to the point he bleed both inside and outside. So until he retrain and get stronger to have durablity like that, we shouldn't think on him being same durability as before is what I am saying.
They're dumb and should go chew on rocks. Zoro probably can't fight King, but he's still not as indurable or weak as the doofuses think, unless you can provide proof that this is a consistent thing (last loss was against Hodi because Hodi took drugs in an area that was becoming flooded). Plus, how often do we see Zoro take great damage and still power through and win? Took fatal blows from Mihawk, but it didn't stop him from beating Hachi. The torture that KUma put him through didn't make him useless against a pacifista, even. Hell, even after that and taking a beating from the Pacifista, Zoro still managed to take out the apes, which were strong enough to impress Mihawk.
And why shouldn't we think that? Based on one incident?
My bad, let me clarify.
Luffy fainted due to blood loss due to being in a disadvantageous position which is being underwater.
Zoro fainted due to blood loss due to being in a disadvantageous position which is being sneak attacked.
That's all I see. All should have doubted Luffy's endurance but it didn't matter. Look at Kata fight. Zoro will prove the same when Oda wants.
My bad, let me clarify.
Luffy fainted due to blood loss due to being in a disadvantageous position which is being underwater.
Zoro fainted due to blood loss due to being in a disadvantageous position which is being sneak attacked.
That's all I see. All should have doubted Luffy's endurance but it didn't matter. Look at Kata fight. Zoro will prove the same when Oda wants.
Luffy fought him around underwater and even succumb a few times outside the bubble if it wasn't for Shirahoshi and others assistance. It doesn't matter how durable he is, if he hit with seawater, it makes him weak. That's a DF weakness that adds on to it. Plus Hody was using seawater in his Fishman Karate attacks to boot. Don't think it was more so only blood loss while combination of a lot of things especially environment around for Luffy.
Zoro doesn't have that and thus doesn't have an reason or excuse why he fell down after being damage that quickly when pre-timeskip he fought harder than that before. One hit shouldn't be enough regardless. Obviously Oda see his current state isn't as strong yo handle stuff like this, so he be retraining along with everyone before final battle.
Luffy fought him around underwater and even succumb a few times outside the bubble if it wasn't for Shirahoshi and others assistance. It doesn't matter how durable he is, if he hit with seawater, it makes him weak. That's a DF weakness that adds on to it. Plus Hody was using seawater in his Fishman Karate attacks to boot. Don't think it was more so only blood loss while combination of a lot of things especially environment around for Luffy.
Zoro doesn't have that and thus doesn't have an reason or excuse why he fell down after being damage that quickly when pre-timeskip he fought harder than that before. One hit shouldn't be enough regardless. Obviously Oda see his current state isn't as strong yo handle stuff like this, so he be retraining along with everyone before final battle.
You remember all these factors for defending Luffy but why don't you do the same for Zoro? You will answer your own questions. Zoro fainted not only due to blood loss but also due to hunger. This was already proven in previous discussion by the guy who has a cat for profile pic.
Like I said, both were for plots. Its better to not delve deep into it. Luffy lost blood so he can get transfusion from Jinbe to prove it to the fishmen that it is possible for humans and fishmen to coexist. Zoro fainted so that he can get close to Komurasaki and witness Yasu's death and further future development.
They're dumb and should go chew on rocks. Zoro probably can't fight King, but he's still not as indurable or weak as the doofuses think, unless you can provide proof that this is a consistent thing (last loss was against Hodi because Hodi took drugs in an area that was becoming flooded). Plus, how often do we see Zoro take great damage and still power through and win? Took fatal blows from Mihawk, but it didn't stop him from beating Hachi. The torture that KUma put him through didn't make him useless against a pacifista, even. Hell, even after that and taking a beating from the Pacifista, Zoro still managed to take out the apes, which were strong enough to impress Mihawk.
And why shouldn't we think that? Based on one incident?
I don't get what difference it makes that Zoro was unconscious. Kamazou was a new characters with no reference for his strength, other than Zoro himself.
You remember all these factors for defending Luffy but why don't you do the same for Zoro? You will answer your own questions. Zoro fainted not only due to blood loss but also due to hunger. This was already proven in previous discussion by the guy who has a cat for profile pic.
Like I said, both were for plots. Its better to not delve deep into it. Luffy lost blood so he can get transfusion from Jinbe to prove it to the fishmen that it is possible for humans and fishmen to coexist. Zoro fainted so that he can get close to Komurasaki and witness Yasu's death and further future development.
Instead of bashing Zoro, go bash your heads. I have not seen one not just one post on how Zoro’s stomach growled right before he fainted. Go read previous panel where he fainted. He didnt faint because of injury alone. He was clearly very hungry. How would your fav guy luffy fare against hunger. I dont blame you for who you are or what you are not capable of. I always see what I see. I blame Oda for this, he clearly swayed from the path he started years ago and One Piece is barely a mediocre manga since timeskip.
Alright, after some research I found out the original noise for Zoro's panel at the bottom middle page is "glurrgg", which literally is stomach growling so you were right.
Leaving the rest of the post above unchanged, gotta admit my mistake. I was using Jaimini translation as my grounds here and they went with "dizzy". Gotta say they fucked it up real good in this case (Zoro could have been dizzy from hunger, sure ... but it's not really clear enough at first sight). Thanks god I didn't take part in discussion on why did Zoro faint.
They're dumb and should go chew on rocks. Zoro probably can't fight King, but he's still not as indurable or weak as the doofuses think, unless you can provide proof that this is a consistent thing (last loss was against Hodi because Hodi took drugs in an area that was becoming flooded). Plus, how often do we see Zoro take great damage and still power through and win? Took fatal blows from Mihawk, but it didn't stop him from beating Hachi. The torture that KUma put him through didn't make him useless against a pacifista, even. Hell, even after that and taking a beating from the Pacifista, Zoro still managed to take out the apes, which were strong enough to impress Mihawk.
And why shouldn't we think that? Based on one incident?
Don't think many think he is a 'weakling', but hard to say as looks to be an like Sanji vs Vergo situation that now some are saying he can't handle the big leagues anymore or at least right now. Probably doesn't help we haven't seen strong showing lately in the arc with Zoro since his last serious opponent Hawkins is another debatable fight about how he is, so this didn't help those who detract Zoro more into thinking he can fight even stronger top tier (Actually his last lost was to Hawkins encounter since he didn't have a strong showing in the fight). Not doubting his pre-timeskip feats, but it's NW feats others are seeing as that the thing. For someone who been trained by Mihawk to go down from how he did in last fight, it's kinda underwhelming especially for Zoro fans who hold him high regards on his durablity.
It can change depending what he does next fight, but he lost quite momentum on many debates and theories lately so far with "Zoro is stronger than Luffy, Zoro stronger than Sanji, He could take on Katakuri or King or even Cracker, Could take on an Admiral/YC, etc.. It's not all on one incidents, it's more than one. It's just an something notable that be stuck with him like how certain individuals bag on Sanji during Vergo fight despite he was still able to hurt him and fight even with an 'hurt' leg that he walk away later on with no medical attention.
Some fans can't stop thinking DBZ logic when doing fights since OP was inspired by it as one of it's main inspiration. Just it is how it is on it.
He trained heavily for 2 years under Mihawk and he somehow lost on durability? How do you come to such a conclusion?
He took the blame for the injury because he wasn't careful enough, he doesn't need to retrain anything. Zoro trained more than any other character in the series. Keep reading, you will see that he will go through this arc without training anything about his durability, the only thing he might train is Kinemon's ability to cut fire and explosions as he showed interest in that before.
No, he couldn't use Haki to protect himself from Kamazou's stab, Haki is not a protection against such injuries when it comes to opponents of such caliber. Luffy used Hardening on his hand and was still cut from Cracker. It only works against opponents who are far weaker(Vergo and Tashigi).
I have looked on other websites, nobody questions Zoro's durability and the only reason we have been hinted at as for why he fainted was hunger as his stomach growled in the panel before he faints.
I would agree that Kuma's injury is worse but since you value the faint... Still, 2nd or 3rd worse injury for sure, the worst involuntary. If the reason for fainting is hunger it's still a lame reason and I seriously doubt it's because of injury as he didn't faint from Kuma. Yes, he fought more opponents at the same time, here he thought Gyukimaru wouldn't attack anymore until he is done with Kamazou, that's what you don't understand.
Last fight shows no durability feats when you faint after getting hit and stab. Luffy got stab and he kept fighting Katakuri to the end and didn't faint and his was more damaging into his ribs compare to an shoulder stab. He does need to as he wouldn't have say that just because he isn't careful enough. If Luffy, Sanji, and others are training up for major powerups, Zoro will do so not to be left behind in the end.
What ya mean? It can prevent that as Luffy's showcase he can deflect sharp weapons like blades from cutting and piercing his body (Unless his opponent's Haki is stronger in that point or he didn't put too much effort in it). Kamazou is someone who looks to be Headliner lvl with no such of Haki to do that. Your looking wrong areas as others have question it on Orojackson, Reddit, Youtube, etc.. Hunger was never it. Oda would have stated that forwardly over something as simple as that. He isn't Luffy btw, hunger wouldn't be that downgrade to him unlike Luffy.
That's more your reason than true fact. So far if it was hunger, Oda would have said something about it otherwise or Zoro comment about it. He face many threats without eating prior and still win or lose due to something else. He isn't like Luffy who like that if he is hungry. I do understand the fight, but he clearly went down out of it pain not because he thinks Gyukimaru was harmless since he saw him taking an weapon. Why drop your guard with someone who JUST took your sword. He could have took his other blades too since he is an weapon collector. Zoro maybe dumb at times, but that is stupid to do and doesn't make sense on his character who value weapons. He was knockout plain and simple. Nothing hints on him losing because of poison, hunger, etc.. All excuses, and you ned to understand that Zoro isn't same as pre-timeskip in durablity as clealry Oda knew what he was doing when he did this.
) laughed all the time because Kyros couldn't keep up with him, and his fight consisted of throwing confetti and then shooting Kyros on the leg... just to have Kyros stand up afterwards and one-shotting Diamante 
