One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Shasha23]

What you mean? He hit him more than once and Luffy still defeat him in the end. Luffy went out due to another reason.

Hody only landed 1 hit on Luffy, what other reason did Luffy faint for if not from the after effects of Hody's attack?

 

[M3J]

Don't think many think he is a 'weakling', but hard to say as looks to be an like Sanji vs Vergo situation that now some are saying he can't handle the big leagues anymore or at least right now. Probably doesn't help we haven't seen strong showing lately in the arc with Zoro since his last serious opponent Hawkins is another debatable fight about how he is, so this didn't help those who detract Zoro more into thinking he can fight even stronger top tier (Actually his last lost was to Hawkins encounter since he didn't have a strong showing in the fight). Not doubting his pre-timeskip feats, but it's NW feats others are seeing as that the thing. For someone who been trained by Mihawk to go down from how he did in last fight, it's kinda underwhelming especially for Zoro fans who hold him high regards on his durablity.

It can change depending what he does next fight, but he lost quite momentum on many debates and theories lately so far with "Zoro is stronger than Luffy, Zoro stronger than Sanji, He could take on Katakuri or King or even Cracker, Could take on an Admiral/YC, etc.. It's not all on one incidents, it's more than one. It's just an something notable that be stuck with him like how certain individuals bag on Sanji during Vergo fight despite he was still able to hurt him and fight even with an 'hurt' leg that he walk away later on with no medical attention.

Some fans can't stop thinking DBZ logic when doing fights since OP was inspired by it as one of it's main inspiration. Just it is how it is on it.

Fuck what others or many think. Zoro vs. Hawkins also doesn't show anything but Hawkins not being weak. It's not like Zoro was fighting seriously. And Mihawk would have used CoO while Zoro didn't.

 

[nik87]

You have twisted several things here to fit your argument but it isnt like that at all.

Last fight shows no durability feats when you faint after getting hit and stab. Luffy got stab and he kept fighting Katakuri to the end and didn't faint and his was more damaging into his ribs compare to an shoulder stab. He does need to as he wouldn't have say that just because he isn't careful enough. If Luffy, Sanji, and others are training up for major powerups, Zoro will do so not to be left behind in the end.

What last fight shows is that Zoro was seriously injured because of a cheap shot. Name one injury that is even close to this which wasnt a cheap shot and not voluntarily taking Mihawk's slice and Kuma's bubble. Zoro's defense is rock solid, he never takes serious damage in a fair fight, you conveniently ignore the cheap shot here.
Luffy had more plot armor in the fight with Katakuri than all other characters in the series combined. I told you, enjoy the show, you will see that Zoro wont retrain anything, he trained more than any other Strawhat and still has only shown a fraction of his power. Who else, aside from Luffy, is training?

What ya mean? It can prevent that as Luffy's showcase he can deflect sharp weapons like blades from cutting and piercing his body (Unless his opponent's Haki is stronger in that point or he didn't put too much effort in it). Kamazou is someone who looks to be Headliner lvl with no such of Haki to do that. Your looking wrong areas as others have question it on Orojackson, Reddit, Youtube, etc.. Hunger was never it. Oda would have stated that forwardly over something as simple as that. He isn't Luffy btw, hunger wouldn't be that downgrade to him unlike Luffy.

Haki only protected Luffy from sharp objects against fodder while against serious opponents it always failed. You have an idea in your head that Zoro should have used CoA on his body to protect himself from Kamazou's blade and Hawkins' nails but only you think that would actually work. It would be no protection and I told you back then when you liked nails more than faint that Zoro will never use CoA on his body and only on his swords since it serves no purpose, you dont understand Zoro and you dont understand CoA.
I looked in right areas, it's just you being unable to tell apart trolling and people actually doubting Zoro's endurance. Nobody doubts it.

That's more your reason than true fact. So far if it was hunger, Oda would have said something about it otherwise or Zoro comment about it. He face many threats without eating prior and still win or lose due to something else. He isn't like Luffy who like that if he is hungry. I do understand the fight, but he clearly went down out of it pain not because he thinks Gyukimaru was harmless since he saw him taking an weapon. Why drop your guard with someone who JUST took your sword. He could have took his other blades too since he is an weapon collector. Zoro maybe dumb at times, but that is stupid to do and doesn't make sense on his character who value weapons. He was knockout plain and simple. Nothing hints on him losing because of poison, hunger, etc.. All excuses, and you ned to understand that Zoro isn't same as pre-timeskip in durablity as clealry Oda knew what he was doing when he did this.

Reason for fainting is obviously plot armor, to get him into bed with Hiyori. The one and only justification of the faint that we actually got in manga is hunger, lame reason to serve plot purpose but it is the only thing provided in the manga, you are ignoring this.
He went down out of pain? Where does the manga confirm that? Provide evidence with a screenshot.
You are ignoring that Zoro saw Gyukimaru turning his back to him and leaving. Why drop the guard with someone who took your sword and was leaving? For the plot purpose, to get him into bed with Hiyori.
He wasn't knocked out, plain and simple, look up the definition of a knockout. You cant kill Kamazou while being knocked out or can you?
First, he didnt lose, second, yes the manga actually hints that he fainted due to the hunger, look it up in the manga instead of using your headcanon.
There are no excuses, just you ignoring facts from the manga, like you usually do because it fits your argument.
What you need to understand is that durability doesnt work like you think it does and Zoro is far stronger than pre-TS in every aspect, durability included.

 

[Fox666]

Zoro's defense is rock solid, he never takes serious damage in a fair fight, you conveniently ignore the cheap shot here.

What are you talking about? Zoro is only second to Luffy in taking damage. They lost so much blood in the manga they could fill a lake.

 

[nik87]

What are you talking about? Zoro is only second to Luffy in taking damage. They lost so much blood in the manga they could fill a lake.

His defense is way too good to get critically injured involuntary in a fair fight. The worst injuries he involuntarily received are probably against Mr.1 but in those moments he was lying down taking the attack without swords to defend and in the end said that wounds were shallow and not as serious as they looked like at first.
Blood loss is something else that I am not speaking about in that previous reply.

 

[Fox666]

I'm not sure what do you call a fair fight, Zoro tried to fight way too many people out of his league: Mihawk, Enel, Aokiji, Kuma, Kizaru... plus a few short encounters, such as Rob Lucci, Fujitora and even Hawkins.

 

[nik87]

I'm not sure what do you call a fair fight, Zoro tried to fight way too many people out of his league: Mihawk, Enel, Aokiji, Kuma, Kizaru... plus a few short encounters, such as Rob Lucci, Fujitora and even Hawkins.

All those you listed are short clashes. What I mean with a fight are the arc's main battles that Zoro had.
Cabaji, Sham and Buchi, Hatchan, Mr.1, Ohm, Kaku, Ryuma, Hyouzou, Pica.

 

[Fox666]

Honestly I would say Zoro has quite a bad defense, his style is to going all-out over the enemy. He survives in battle because he strike down the opponent before they can hit him and can sustain heavy injuries, but none of these equals defense.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Zoro's D is ATROCIOUS lol that's not what makes him a beast at all

 

[nik87]

Zoro has a bad defense? I have to completely disagree.
Zoro arguably has a better defense than Luffy. The contact surface for both offense and defense are his swords. For Zoro to take any damage the attacks have to get past his swords first or to completely overpower him and that doesn't happen often.

The only issue his defense encounters is where there are countless projectiles at high speed coming towards him and he can't block them all, at least not by usual blocking but there is always the option of offense is the best defense that Zoro didn't use in those instances. For example, Hawkins' nails and Kaku's Rankyaku bounced off the ceiling. Against Kaku's attack, he was completely helpless but it wasn't even close to critical damage and something like Dragon Twister could have dealt with that attack easily. Even if Hawkins' nails didn't come as a surprise attack he most likely wouldn't be able to block them all unless again, Dragon twister blows them all away but again, it's damage that's not even worth mentioning.

While rubber is dealing better with blunt attacks it's worse against cuts, it tears easier than flesh and for Zoro to be affected by blunt attacks in the first place, they need to pass his swords first.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Zoro has a bad defense? I have to completely disagree.
Zoro arguably has a better defense than Luffy. The contact surface for both offense and defense are his swords. For Zoro to take any damage the attacks have to get past his swords first or to completely overpower him and that doesn't happen often.

The only issue his defense encounters is where there are countless projectiles at high speed coming towards him and he can't block them all, at least not by usual blocking but there is always the option of offense is the best defense that Zoro didn't use in those instances. For example, Hawkins' nails and Kaku's Rankyaku bounced off the ceiling. Against Kaku's attack, he was completely helpless but it wasn't even close to critical damage and something like Dragon Twister could have dealt with that attack easily. Even if Hawkins' nails didn't come as a surprise attack he most likely wouldn't be able to block them all unless again, Dragon twister blows them all away but again, it's damage that's not even worth mentioning.

While rubber is dealing better with blunt attacks it's worse against cuts, it tears easier than flesh and for Zoro to be affected by blunt attacks in the first place, they need to pass his swords first.

Zoro doesnt have a bad defense?

Spoiler

This chapter Zoro was going to literally going to take the bullets with his body to protect Otoko, if Sanji hadn't blocked them with his foot. Come on hahaha

Just messing around, of course. Still think his D is bad tho.

 

[Fox666]

I don't think comparing Zoro to Luffy works to his advantage... Luffy is used to take any hit because of his rubber body.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I don't think comparing Zoro to Luffy works to his advantage... Luffy is used to take any hit because of his rubber body.

Zoro cant afford to take the hits that Luffy does, true.

I dont think we need to make a comparison between anyone to say Zoro has a bad/good defense.

Zoro definitely doesnt have the worst defense, that's for sure. I think its adequate for his fighting style.

It can be that people are confusing endurance and durability with defense, which isnt the point being discussed.

I also think, and this is my personal opinion, that Zoro chooses to have a bad defense. His willingness to take hits that he could easily block if serious speaks to that very thing.

 

[Fox666]

Even comparing Zoro to other swordmen in the series, he does seem to take way too many hits.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Even comparing Zoro to other swordmen in the series, he does seem to take way too many hits.

Its keeps him from becoming a glass canon tho.

 

[TrueRaiKage]

@Lexusflame
You made some great points.

Zoro defense sucks. Always has always will. Its like he doesnt even get started till after he is injured.

For goodness sake HE LOST AN EYE!!!!!

All he has ever done is: 1st get cut; 2nd think about losing; 3rd flashback; 4th cut opponents; 5th train in bandages; 6th drink; 7th give people evil eye

Thats it

 

[XXGenesis]

Zoro defense sucks?? That's major opinion!
Zoro had the best defense against Oz....yet somehow he just sucks...Lol. he carries swords, it's almost the best thing to block with besides a shield.

Sanji technically has the worst defense. He doesn't really block attacks all that much. But that because he doesnt need to much and his fighting still is very fluid, & he's very agile.

Luffy's defense is moderate . He relied & often still relies on his DF powers as his defense. Yes we've seen him use balloon & haki to block. But Luffy as a Rubbermsn takes a lot of hits, even those that cause damage.

 

[nik87]

@XXGenesis I agree, Zoro's defense is one of the best.

For all those who think that Zoro's defense is bad I have few questions.
1. How would Luffy handle the onslaught from Kaku's 4 sword style?
2. How would Luffy handle Mr.1 back in Alabasta whose entire body is basically a sharp weapon?
3. If Luffy's defense is better why did he make sure to avoid all hits from the sword of Cracker's real body?
4. How did Luffy's superior defense handle the hit from Katakuri's spear?

Zoro's defense is far better than Luffy's in all those cases because he can take it all on with his sword, taking minimal damage. Luffy, on the other hand, is helpless unless the plot armor kicks in each time, like in the case with Katakuri and completely ignores the wound as it never happened.

 

[Pirate Queen]

@XXGenesis I agree, Zoro's defense is one of the best.

For all those who think that Zoro's defense is bad I have few questions.
1. How would Luffy handle the onslaught from Kaku's 4 sword style?
2. How would Luffy handle Mr.1 back in Alabasta whose entire body is basically a sharp weapon?
3. If Luffy's defense is better why did he make sure to avoid all hits from the sword of Cracker's real body?
4. How did Luffy's superior defense handle the hit from Katakuri's spear?

Zoro's defense is far better than Luffy's in all those cases because he can take it all on with his sword, taking minimal damage. Luffy, on the other hand, is helpless unless the plot armor kicks in each time, like in the case with Katakuri and completely ignores the wound as it never happened.

This isnt about Zoro's defense being compared to anyone else's. Just because I'm saying zoro's defense is bad doesnt mean I think Luffy's is better. 2 people can have bad defenses.

 

[nik87]

This isnt about Zoro's defense being compared to anyone else's. Just because I'm saying zoro's defense is bad doesnt mean I think Luffy's is better. 2 people can have bad defenses.

Fair enough. What is your definition of a good defense?