One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

That is exactly my point. His Paramecia didnt create rocks as far as we know it, but allowed him to become one with them.

I would rank him below Pica and Diamante if they had to battle elsewhere....

You mean below Trebol and Diamante?
I would too.

He'd fit in the Beast Pirates hierarchy. Way more balls than strength (pun intended).

 

[M3J]

I don't think Kinemon is that weak, I assume he's like the Supernovas before the time-skip.

I dunno, but he does seem to be competent enough. Question is though, how competent? I don't think we've really seen him fight in earnest, have we?

I suppose Diamante, Pica and Trebol are equal in power. If Kinemon screamed in terror from Pica, I don't he would be a match for the other two either. Diamante and Trebol also have shown some surprising feats, unlike Kinemon.

Eh, wouldn't blame him, and it wouldn't make Kinemon inferior given he had no idea what was happening.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

@nik87 How do you think Zoro will fair against Law?

Against Hawkins, he was being tested and he managed to get bruised.
Yet we see what Law does to Hawkins. He was a legit powerful Shibukai so it's expected.
I know A defeating B, and B=C doesn't necessarily mean A defeats C.

The question now is can Zoro who struggled with Hawkins handle Law?

 

[kcd]

@nik87 How do you think Zoro will fair against Law?

Against Hawkins, he was being tested and he managed to get bruised.
Yet we see what Law does to Hawkins. He was a legit powerful Shibukai so it's expected.
I know A defeating B, and B=C doesn't necessarily mean A defeats C.

The question now is can Zoro who struggled with Hawkins handle Law?

Did Zoro really struggle against Hawkins?!

Thought Zoro killed him like two or three times without even being really serious?

Oh I remember now, the nails! I won't call that struggling because he could've easily evaded it if he wanted.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Did Zoro really struggle against Hawkins?!

Thought Zoro killed him like two or three times without even being really serious?

Oh I remember now, the nails! I won't call that struggling because he could've easily evaded it if he wanted.

He struggled a bit especially with Hawkins' giant scare crow. It matched Zoro in physical strength don't you think:

View media item 22991
Neither were serious in the brief duel.

It's akin to Ashura vs Jack. Even though it was a short skirmish, Jack was the one wounded not Ashura.

Of course I feel Zoro will likely defeat Hawkins in a serious battle. But against Law?
Damn it looks 50/50

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 1, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 1, 2019 ---

Of course he can.

Law must have used some underhanded trick!

That's funny and nostalgic.

The Big Mom kids in WCI said the same thing when they were told Luffy defeated Katakuri.

It's what happens when someone's in denial over something. They just can't take it.

 

[nik87]

@nik87 How do you think Zoro will fair against Law?

Against Hawkins, he was being tested and he managed to get bruised.
Yet we see what Law does to Hawkins. He was a legit powerful Shibukai so it's expected.
I know A defeating B, and B=C doesn't necessarily mean A defeats C.

The question now is can Zoro who struggled with Hawkins handle Law?

As kcd said, I wouldnt call it struggle, the power behind the swing was impressive but considering the size of the doll maybe not that impressive and nails were a surprise which he could have dodged were there not Luffy and Tama.
Based on their clash I thought that Hawkins was decent combatant but everything that happened after just made him look like a good tactician and like fodder who can just die 10 times before finally kicking the bucket. I expected that as he goes low on the lives, he would start getting serious but the serious part never happened, he straight up declared that Law would murder him.
The leads me to believe that Zoro would cut his 10 lives down within a minute if he were seriously going after him instead of escaping on komainu...

Regarding Zoro vs Law, if stronger CoA can counter Law's chopping ability then the fight is rather easy and all Zoro has to look out for is that Gamma knife in combination with Shambles. If CoA cannot counter the chopping ability then it gets more difficult I guess but Zoro's Streaming Wolf Swords has always managed to avoid such dangers.
Hard to say, if Oda were to draw that fight he would surely make it difficult one whoever wins but I think Zoro would claim the win here, Asura basically doesnt have a blind spot and whatever he learned during TS training hasnt been seen yet.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

As kcd said, I wouldnt call it struggle, the power behind the swing was impressive but considering the size of the doll maybe not that impressive and nails were a surprise which he could have dodged were there not Luffy and Tama.
Based on their clash I thought that Hawkins was decent combatant but everything that happened after just made him look like a good tactician and like fodder who can just die 10 times before finally kicking the bucket. I expected that as he goes low on the lives, he would start getting serious but the serious part never happened, he straight up declared that Law would murder him.
The leads me to believe that Zoro would cut his 10 lives down within a minute if he were seriously going after him instead of escaping on komainu...

Regarding Zoro vs Law, if stronger CoA can counter Law's chopping ability then the fight is rather easy and all Zoro has to look out for is that Gamma knife in combination with Shambles. If CoA cannot counter the chopping ability then it gets more difficult I guess but Zoro's Streaming Wolf Swords has always managed to avoid such dangers.
Hard to say, if Oda were to draw that fight he would surely make it difficult one whoever wins but I think Zoro would claim the win here, Asura basically doesnt have a blind spot and whatever he learned during TS training hasnt been seen yet.

So a 50/50 then?

It'd really be an interesting battle.

It seems Hawkins along with Bege would rank among the less powerful Supernova.
I'd put Bonney there as well.

I guess it's time to reassess the supernova power rankings.

 

[nik87]

So a 50/50 then?
It'd really be an interesting battle.
It seems Hawkins along with Bege would rank among the less powerful Supernova.
I'd put Bonney there as well.
I guess it's time to reassess the supernova power rankings.

It could probably be 50/50 if stronger Haki cannot stop Law's chopping ability.
Hawkins could probably end up last if Bonney shows anything useful lol, Bege at least looks like one of the most tankiest even if his offense isnt his forte.
Top ones are Luffy, Zoro and Law, remains to be seen what Kidd can do...
Drake and Urogue are somewhere in the middle.

 

[nik87]

Like swapping people bodyparts and such.

Apparently it can be countered by stronger CoA or simply by evading his slices.

 

[albertwv]

How strong would you guys rate the New Fishman Pirates compared to Pre-TS CP9? Can Hody with ES defeat Lucci?

 

[GL_Nova]

Not to derail the convo, but how high do people have Sabo?

 

[Luke Beifong]

I guess it's time to reassess the supernova power rankings.

When they appear in the story, after Luffy become the PK, I imagine Kid, Law, Drake and Hawkins becoming the new Yonkos. Now, I’m not so sure of Hawkins... Maybe I put Uroge in his place in the end of story. He beat Snack after all, I don’t remember any of the Supernovas doing anything so impressive like beating a YC besides him and Luffy.

 

[M3J]

@nik87 How do you think Zoro will fair against Law?

Against Hawkins, he was being tested and he managed to get bruised.
Yet we see what Law does to Hawkins. He was a legit powerful Shibukai so it's expected.
I know A defeating B, and B=C doesn't necessarily mean A defeats C.

The question now is can Zoro who struggled with Hawkins handle Law?

He could, especially with knowledge on Law's ability. Power level for the most part is ridiculous unless we're talking about a civilian or low level marine vs. a a Supernova, for example.

 

[Fox666]

@nik87 How do you think Zoro will fair against Law?

Against Hawkins, he was being tested and he managed to get bruised.
Yet we see what Law does to Hawkins. He was a legit powerful Shibukai so it's expected.
I know A defeating B, and B=C doesn't necessarily mean A defeats C.

The question now is can Zoro who struggled with Hawkins handle Law?

Nope.

Zoro greatest feat after the time-skip was defeating one of Doflamingo executives, who Law can one-shot.

Besides we know for sure that there's a gap between Law and anyone in the Strawhats, including Luffy if he doesn't use Gear 4.

 

[Brandish μ]

Zoro is thereabouts with Law, give or take. Both of those are on the tier below Luffy.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yeah Zoro and Law are most likely equal. I'd say 2 tiers below Luffy now that Luffy has FS and Advanced CoA

 

[Fox666]

I think you guys are underestimating Law way too much.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I think you guys are underestimating Law way too much.

Why? Because we are putting him at Zoro's level? How far above Zoro do you put Law?

 

[Fox666]

It's not just the comparison of Law and Zoro, but placing him below Luffy too. I also think Hawkins is being underestimated.

Most times Law fought, it was just crazy. From Smoker, to Vergo, to avoiding both Doflamingo and Fujitora at once. It was only Doflamingo and Hawkins who gave him trouble, but there's no shame on that.

Speaking of Doflamingo, until he was injured by Law's Gamma Knife, Luffy couldn't lay a finger on him without Law's help. Law on the other hand fought quite well against Doflamingo all by himself. Haki-wise, he could block Doflamingo attacks, Luffy couldn't. IMHO makes it quite obvious there was huge difference between him and Luffy without Gear 4. And since Luffy needed Gear 4 to fight an already wounded Doflamingo, I suspect Gear 4 doesn't leave Law in the dust (albeit Law seemed impressed).

Hawkins proved to be an absolute genius in combat, and there are a few clues of how strong he is. Jack talked with him very casually, and seemed to respect Hawkins. Kaido too followed Hawkins advice of destroying Oden Castle. Speaking of Kaido, his plan of recruiting Hawkins and Kidd reminds me of how much he wanted Ashura Doji on his army. You can guess Hawkins is the real deal.

In terms of swordmanship, Law cutting Punk Hazard ice mountains reminds me of Mihawk cutting the frozen waves in Marineford. While I presume Mihawk is still the world's strongest swordman, it's no surprise Law has a feat similar to his fellow Shichibukai.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Hawkins proved to be an absolute genius in combat, and there are a few clues of how strong he is. Jack talked with him very casually, and seemed to respect Hawkins. Kaido too followed Hawkins advice of destroying Oden Castle. Speaking of Kaido, his plan of recruiting Hawkins and Kidd reminds me of how much he wanted Ashura Doji on his army. You can guess Hawkins is the real deal.

Really Hawkins?

Who got killed by Zoro 2 out of 10 times.
Who easily gave up in front of Kaido.
Who said Law would kill him if he doesn't blah blah blah.
Who actually got maimed by Law.

A casual conversation with Jack and Kaido doesn't automatically put him on their level (not even close).
Bege had a casual conversation with Katakuri and Big Mom. Doesn't make him remotely close to their level.
It just shows he's well accepted into the crew. Same situation as Hawkins (it's not a show of strength but rather integration into the crew).

If Hawkins has shown anything it's that he's a very tactical combatant and an impressive strategist. But physical prowess? No, he's not at the level of Luffy, Urouge, Kid, Law or Zoro.
Don't get me wrong he's strong, but these guys are stronger.

Hawkins like Sanji make up for what he lacks in strength, with wits.
Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not calling them weak, but they aren't super strong either.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 3, 2019 ---

Speaking of Doflamingo, until he was injured by Law's Gamma Knife, Luffy couldn't lay a finger on him without Law's help.

I hope you do recall that Luffy did that (not laying a finger on Doffy without Law's help) because Law asked him to.