One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[King Moe]

Aokiji WANTED the position, which is why he and Akainu fought for 10 days... so no. It's not a matter of him denying it.

Smoker is not a powerhouse. But he's dependable for an organization like Sword

Ah I see. If that case, I can see it him as FA if his laziness doesn't stop him. You never know with Oda. He could surprise us.

He is and will become more. I don't see him VA forever as he be advancing and be Admiral and maybe FA depending on Aokiji's situation and some time past. He has potential to go up there. If we can take it from latest movie, Oda haven't forgotten about Smoker and still want him be up there.

 

[King Moe]

Would be nice to see statistic on sengokus rule vs akainus rule with amount of troops, losses, arrested pirates, crime rates and so.

We might get that eventually depending.

 

[HereNThere]

Based on recent events, could it be that Aokiji and Akainu faked their battle so Aokiji could infiltrate the most dangerous pirate group?

I think Aokiji is more likely than Akainu.

Aside from their extremely different point of views on Justice, Akainu seems to be in the dark about Wano given how he held back Kizaru for heading there due to not knowing about the Samurai. Which is strange as, if he were a part of Sword, he'd surely have information on the strength of the Samurai by now as Drake had to have been in Wano for quite a long time.

As for the potential New Age of Admirals, I imagine we'll get Koby, Smoker, and, maybe, Tashigi. She's certainly a character who needs to strengthen up a lot if she wants even a sliver of a chance of taking swords from stronger Pirates.

 

[M3J]

I think Aokiji is more likely than Akainu.

Aside from their extremely different point of views on Justice, Akainu seems to be in the dark about Wano given how he held back Kizaru for heading there due to not knowing about the Samurai. Which is strange as, if he were a part of Sword, he'd surely have information on the strength of the Samurai by now as Drake had to have been in Wano for quite a long time.

As for the potential New Age of Admirals, I imagine we'll get Koby, Smoker, and, maybe, Tashigi. She's certainly a character who needs to strengthen up a lot if she wants even a sliver of a chance of taking swords from stronger Pirates.

Tashigi will likely get stronger and be one of the best, and I hope I"m right. Would love to see her be kind of a rival for Zoro, as Coby would be for Luffy. Smoker will probably be Luffy's rival as well or at least, something, provided he gets stronger.

 

[Fox666]

Based on recent events, could it be that Aokiji and Akainu faked their battle so Aokiji could infiltrate the most dangerous pirate group?
Both of them could possibly be members of SWORD and if they fought the loser had to obey the orders, instead of leaving Marines.
Akainu has a sword tattoo and Aokiji's actions smell so much similar to Drake's.

But who gave them the scars?

 

[jaymizzo]

Smoker seemed strong in marineford.

And proceeded to eat dirt in Punk Hazard

 

[Fox666]

Smoker was strong back then, and Luffy commented he got even stronger in Marineford.

It's hard to estimate how much strong he was, but I think he was around Luffy level (both in Arabasta and Marineford), but with the Logia advantage.

 

[King Moe]

And proceeded to eat dirt in Punk Hazard

Yet treated as top tier in final fight in latest movie. If Oda sees him like that still, don't think we see him as the same as before on PH.

 

[Fox666]

Ehh, the movie is not "Oda".

As far we know, Luffy would wipe the floor with Smoker since the timeskip.

 

[King Moe]

Ehh, the movie is not "Oda".

As far we know, Luffy would wipe the floor with Smoker since the timeskip.

Never said it was. Though Oda was there and give it the go of who be final ones to beat Bullet with Luffy. Why Smoker despite his performance in one arc? It means Oda still expect big things out of him in the long run.

 

[HereNThere]

Smoker got dealt a pretty bad hand early in the time skip. Punk Hazard in general was a weird festival of feats for anyone not named Law.

I'd also say that Luffy would win against Smoker since the start of the TS, but I'd also like to think he'd have a harder time if it than Law did. Until Gear 4 comes out at least.

 

[Fox666]

Smoker got dealt a pretty bad hand early in the time skip. Punk Hazard in general was a weird festival of feats for anyone not named Law.

That's what you get for befriending a Shichibukai. Imagine if Crocodile or Doflamingo were actually allies?

I'd also say that Luffy would win against Smoker since the start of the TS, but I'd also like to think he'd have a harder time if it than Law did. Until Gear 4 comes out at least.

Ehh, I think Luffy using Haki would beat the living crap out of Smoker with regular Gomu Gomu attacks.

 

[HereNThere]

Ehh, I think Luffy using Haki would beat the living crap out of Smoker with regular Gomu Gomu attacks.

I'd just hate to think that Smoker's improvements after 2 years are so marginal that he couldn't even take on basic Luffy.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

=They were fighting the Doflamingo Family not the marines and the 2nd strongest was Pica

Nope. The 2nd strongest was Vergo!

Lol, Cracker would be worst! You also think it's easier to cut than break those hard biscuits huh?

Cracker would be a terrible opponent for Zoro but @Isto isn't wrong either. He would be dead in a matchup with Katakuri (even if he tags along with Sanji) cos lest I forget, Zoro's CoO is rubbish. Not to mention the fact that Katakuri is superior to Cracker in every department.

Also vs Cracker Zoro would lose badly. Cracker's CoA is extremely powerful and his biscuit defense is totally unfair.

Zoro already implied he can't cut someone with a stronger CoA than him when he faced Pica, and we are as sure as hell that his CoA is inferior to Luffy's whose CoA was inferior to Cracker at the time.
Pre Enma Zoro loses badly to Cracker.
Post Enma Zoro? No comments for now.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 24, 2019 ---

I'd just hate to think that Smoker's improvements after 2 years are so marginal that he couldn't even take on basic Luffy.

He was no match to Vergo and he was like an ant in front of Dofy, needing Kuzan to rescue him.
He was also fodder for Law who is slightly weaker than Luffy so @Fox666 is right. He would get pummelled by a basic Luffy.

 

[King Moe]

I'd just hate to think that Smoker's improvements after 2 years are so marginal that he couldn't even take on basic Luffy.

Doubt Oda will keep him the same since that arc since. If movie shows, Oda still has hopes for Smoker for big leagues in the end. Perhaps he be one of major Marines to be in this Wano War when it happens.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Do Luffy's wins over higher level Pirates than himself speak more to Luffy's stunning growth as a shounen protagonist? What do you take into account? The fact that Crocodile, Katakuri.. even Kaido no longer live their lives battle to battle and have become COMPLACENT in their roles in the One Piece Verse?

For example, Mihawk spent his youth searching out swordsmen to fight and now that there is no one left he just sits around drinking wine?

Have top tiers gotten rusty? Now that Luffy has shaken the seas, are they forced to remember why they were considered the best in the first place?

Hancock's own words at the end of the latest chapter speak to this

Are Luffy's wins (tho no less impressive) a combination of his stunning growth + a decline of worthy opponents for said Pirates to hone their skills + constantly underestimating a "rookie pirate" that only took to the seas 2 years prior?

Is it possible Kaido losses partly because he has forgotten the strength + hunger + and willpower of those trying to climb to the top?

Are we seeing Prime Kaido? Or are we seeing a Kaido who has lost his drive and just wants the world to end while he drinks himself into a stupor? Are we seeing both?

Let's disregard plot for the sake of this discussion, while I do understand plot being a central fact in discussion like these.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Do Luffy's wins over higher level Pirates than himself speak more to Luffy's stunning growth as a shounen protagonist? What do you take into account? The fact that Crocodile, Katakuri.. even Kaido no longer live their lives battle to battle and have become COMPLACENT in their roles in the One Piece Verse?

For example, Mihawk spent his youth searching out swordsmen to fight and now that there is no one left he just sits around drinking wine?

Have top tiers gotten rusty? Now that Luffy has shaken the seas, are they forced to remember why they were considered the best in the first place?

Hancock's own words at the end of the latest chapter speak to this

Are Luffy's wins (tho no less impressive) a combination of his stunning growth + a decline of worthy opponents for said Pirates to hone their skills + constantly underestimating a "rookie pirate" that only took to the seas 2 years prior?

Is it possible Kaido losses partly because he has forgotten the strength + hunger + and willpower of those trying to climb to the top?

Are we seeing Prime Kaido? Or are we seeing a Kaido who has lost his drive and just wants the world to end while he drinks himself into a stupor? Are we seeing both?

Let's disregard plot for the sake of this discussion, while I do understand plot being a central fact in discussion like these.

You actually sound like Gyats - the coliseum announcer - with all that multifactorial point of view.

Basically, what you are saying is to look at the possibility of certain powerhouses getting nerfed. Kaido certainly hasn't been! Dude's been balling like the total badass he's been portrayed to be and he isn't disappointing. One swing of the club and we know he's as good as ever, if not better. As long as he's not 60, we have prime Kaido.

Regardless of how largely most power figures have gone unchallenged, just bcos we aren't shown panels of these guys working out or having duels and all that doesn't mean they've been weakened in the slightest.
If anyone has been nerfed so far in the New World it'll be Big Mom. Old hag has mostly been sitting and getting fat and ugly while ordering her capable kids and loyals to do her bidding. But not even her will be given that piece of argument. She's still got it (even with old age).

For worth it's worth, the power figures are as powerful as they always have been especially the ones in the New World. We've been given that narrative. The New World wouldn't be the New World if there was no power tussle and some action to go along with it.

I see it this way: if a character can't perform anytime, anyday, regardless of the condition, then they have no right to claim being strong or super strong.
The only excuse I'm willing to listen to is sickness. But even that will be overlooked now since Roger and Whitebeard have shown that not even sickness can stop the very best from displaying absolute badassery.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Basically, what you are saying is to look at the possibility of certain powerhouses getting nerfed. .

Actually I'm not saying that at all. I am not talking about "nerf" at all. You missed the point entirely. It was a reflective post of how we perceive those that we readers consider the "strongest."

Whether is Oda needing to flashback why someone is at the level they are or something else.

We are told Kaido is the strongest, but not shown anything to prove it, and this is a small, very small example.

Where as with WB we saw him challenge the strongest. I'm hoping Kaido gets his time before Luffy eventually defeats him.

I'm only using Kaido as an example because he is front and center. My comment pertains to all top tier

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Actually I'm not saying that at all. I am not talking about "nerf" at all. You missed the point entirely. It was a reflective post of how we perceive those that we readers consider the "strongest."

Whether is Oda needing to flashback why someone is at the level they are or something else.

We are told Kaido is the strongest, but not shown anything to prove it, and this is a small, very small example.

Where as with WB we saw him challenge the strongest. I'm hoping Kaido gets his time before Luffy eventually defeats him.

I'm only using Kaido as an example because he is front and center. My comment pertains to all top tier

Cool... So I was well off target eh. Shame on me then.
But I don't think we'll be shown as much as we hope to see though.
I don't want to say that things will be rushed but it does seem like we are slowly but surely approaching the conclusion of the Manga.
Personally, I'd like that as well, getting to see what feats the big players accomplished to be regarded as most powerful, strongest, most destructive, indestructible, etc. But I'm near certain Oda will leave us to the imagination or at least give us the narrative rather than show it.
It's been mostly tell rather than show where the best and greatest are concerned save for Whitebeard.

 

[Fox666]

I'd just hate to think that Smoker's improvements after 2 years are so marginal that he couldn't even take on basic Luffy.

It's true. Smoker build up was quite phenomenal pre-timeskip... the only way he could keep up with the hype would be if he became an Admiral.

We don't even get the chance to see Luffy defeating him. We could just easily conclude he was no match in Punk Hazard. :/