One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[HereNThere]

I wanna know how strong though, I feel like Jinbei is too high a level for her that it'd be a wasted fight, as Jinbei is pretty strong, strong enough to fend off Big Mom and still survive.

I know, and I doubt it would either, but doesn't Jinbei have the ability to use water in the air to deal damage? That's what I was thinking of/meant. Fishman karate doesn't cancel devil fruit abilities, but it should prevent the fruit user from tanking the damage or becoming intangible. Didn't Jinbei hurt Luffy on Fishman Island, and Luffy was surprised?

I like Jinbe and him fending off Big Mom is an amazing feat, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's beyond Smoothie. It's possible that her and Katakuri would be capable of the same thing in the right circumstances. Heck, a bit ago, we saw Queen do basically the same thing with Big Mom, even knock her out. We just don't know yet as she is lacking feats.

It depends on how Smoothie's abilities work. From what we've seen, Jinbe's Fishman Karate shouldn't really have anything to negate, since she doesn't become intangible and her fruit doesn't change the qualities of her body, at least, from what we've seen. In my opinion, her fruit is more like Kuma's, where she can wring out things rather than push. So she may be able to wring out concepts as well, such as pain or strength or stuff like that.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Implying that Zoro right now is Luffy’s equal is insanity.

 

[nik87]

Implying that Zoro right now is Luffy’s equal is insanity.

If equal is insanity what is being stronger than Luffy?

 

[Crimson Ice]

If equal is insanity what is being stronger than Luffy?

A word I can’t say because I’ll get banned.

 

[Fox666]

Pica's goal was to impede the Straw Hats, was it not?

He was attacking unconscious people, that was all

Killer was not acting of his own accord either, he was forced to do Orochi or Kaidou's bidding.

Still dirty

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

I wanna know how strong though, I feel like Jinbei is too high a level for her that it'd be a wasted fight, as Jinbei is pretty strong, strong enough to fend off Big Mom and still survive.

The hell are you saying?
Jimbei's best fight was a draw with Ace (who was still weak, not yet a YC, and untrained by Whitebeard and was probably not as strong as NW Luffy).
Smoothie is said to be super strong YC (2nd to Katakuri in Big Mom's commander hierarchy which is based on combat strength) by Oda himself, and obviously stronger than Cracker - who was hell for Luffy.

You should be worried for Jimbei not the other way round.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2020 ---

Yeah. Luffy must have surpassed Jinbe after his victory over Katakuri, or after his training in Udon. That's why Jinbe only joined now.

Jimbei knew that if Luffy defeats Katakuri back in WCI, he's definitely got the stuff to make it to the top and is no doubt stronger than him.
Cos it has never made sense for any pirate to be stronger than his captain, that much is established save for the usual exception Buggy. D. Clown.

Otherwise, the captains are always the strongest in any given crew.

 

[Pirate Queen]

The hell are you saying?
Jimbei's best fight was a draw with Ace (who was still weak, not yet a YC, and untrained by Whitebeard and was probably not as strong as NW Luffy).
Smoothie is said to be super strong YC (2nd to Katakuri in Big Mom's commander hierarchy which is based on combat strength) by Oda himself, and obviously stronger than Cracker - who was hell for Luffy.

You should be worried for Jimbei not the other way round.

So not to start a big arguement I have a few points

1. You dont know Ace was Jinbei's biggest fight and if you do can you proved proof as I may have missed the info

1.5 Being a fire logia would be an issue for anyone even a Shichibukai, which we dont know if Jinbe was a Shichibukai at the time. Ace was still highly destructive and could easily prolong a fight he has no business being in and an untrained Ace defeating a seasoned Jinbe is no different than Luffy defeating a seasoned Crocodile.

2. Smoothie was stated as strong but that is true for a Yonko Commanders so that doesnt single her out.

3. She was never stated to be YC2 or considered 2nd only to Katakuri. No heirarchy was established that I'm aware of.

4. You dont know if BM heirarchy is based on combat or if Smoothie is stronger than Cracker.

All those points you made are kinda baseless.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

So not to start a big arguement I have a few points

1. You dont know Ace was Jinbei's biggest fight and if you do can you proved proof as I may have missed the info

1.5 Being a fire logia would be an issue for anyone even a Shichibukai, which we dont know if Jinbe was a Shichibukai at the time. Ace was still highly destructive and could easily prolong a fight he has no business being in and an untrained Ace defeating a seasoned Jinbe is no different than Luffy defeating a seasoned Crocodile.

2. Smoothie was stated as strong but that is true for a Yonko Commanders so that doesnt single her out.

3. She was never stated to be YC2 or considered 2nd only to Katakuri. No heirarchy was established that I'm aware of.

4. You dont know if BM heirarchy is based on combat or if Smoothie is stronger than Cracker.

All those points you made are kinda baseless.

1. When I say biggest fight, I mean non skirmishes straight one on one battle. Not random quickies with Akainu, Big Mom, Smoothies, Katakuri, etc.
Your comparison is null and void, Ace never defeated Jimbei meanwhile Luffy defeated Croc.

2. I wasn't singling her out among YCs to begin with. I'm talking within the Big Mom Pirates only.

3. She was introduced next after Cracker with Katakuri left for last. This is the usual method crews get introduced in relation to their power level same. Similar thing was done with the Beast Pirates, first Jack, then Queen and lastly King.
Same applies to the bounty reveal within the crew. The difference in combat strength among Big Mom's commanders and Kaido's reflects their position in the crew.

BMP: Katakuri (last revealed bounty), Smoothie (second revealed bounty), Cracker (first revealed bounty).
BP: King (last revealed bounty/still not yet revealed), Queen (second revealed bounty), Jack (first revealed bounty).

This is consistent among the Yonko commanders (in the same crew) and it's why I know Smoothie is stronger than Cracker without doubt.

4. Already answered in 3.

 

[M3J]

I like Jinbe and him fending off Big Mom is an amazing feat, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's beyond Smoothie. It's possible that her and Katakuri would be capable of the same thing in the right circumstances. Heck, a bit ago, we saw Queen do basically the same thing with Big Mom, even knock her out. We just don't know yet as she is lacking feats.

It depends on how Smoothie's abilities work. From what we've seen, Jinbe's Fishman Karate shouldn't really have anything to negate, since she doesn't become intangible and her fruit doesn't change the qualities of her body, at least, from what we've seen. In my opinion, her fruit is more like Kuma's, where she can wring out things rather than push. So she may be able to wring out concepts as well, such as pain or strength or stuff like that.

I don't know if we can call that a knockout as she was conscious for few seconds before going to sleep. And that's why I was asking about Smoothie's powers and what she's shown, if anything, as I don't remember.

Dunno, but if her fruit can reduce damage like it does for Luffy, then Fishman karate would put the full hurt on her.

He was attacking unconscious people, that was all


Still dirty

Would he have in an actual fight, though?

The hell are you saying?
Jimbei's best fight was a draw with Ace (who was still weak, not yet a YC, and untrained by Whitebeard and was probably not as strong as NW Luffy).
Smoothie is said to be super strong YC (2nd to Katakuri in Big Mom's commander hierarchy which is based on combat strength) by Oda himself, and obviously stronger than Cracker - who was hell for Luffy.

You should be worried for Jimbei not the other way round.

What makes you think Ace was weak, when he was getting attention for his strength and had a powerful devil fruit? And do you not see the irony in saying Ace back then was weak and untrained, while stating as if though Jinbei did not get any stronger in those years as well? You make less sense than I apparently do.

Matchups matter.

Otherwise, the captains are always the strongest in any given crew.

Buggy's crew would beg to differ.

 

[jaymizzo]

Buggy's crew would beg to differ.

Buggy crew is the only ones whose captains were weaker than their crew members.

But that is explained away in the manga as their crew following hype and heresay than anything else.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Buggy's crew would beg to differ

Buggy's crew is an obvious joke and the only exception. Find yourself a better example mate.

What makes you think Ace was weak, when he was getting attention for his strength and had a powerful devil fruit? And do you not see the irony in saying Ace back then was weak and untrained, while stating as if though Jinbei did not get any stronger in those years as well?

It was not established if Jimbei did or did not get stronger. We don't even know if he was already Shichibukai or not at that point. Point is, he dueled Ace and it was a tie and that was the only true fight we've had from Jimbei nothing else till now except skirmishes. I'm not saying he didn't fight stronger people, just that it was never mentioned.

It is established that Ace did get stronger and rose to YC status, meaning he surpassed Jimbei. Period.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2020 ---

What makes you think Ace was weak, when he was getting attention for his strength and had a powerful devil fruit?

Someone who was getting defeated by Whitebeard in his sleep is what? Super strong?

I'm out.

 

[Fox666]

Would he have in an actual fight, though?

I think it was clear Pica was not an honorable fighter?

We doesn't get the chance to see him fighting dirty with a sword, but that's because he stood no chance using a sword

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 5, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2020 ---

Jimbei knew that if Luffy defeats Katakuri back in WCI, he's definitely got the stuff to make it to the top and is no doubt stronger than him.
Cos it has never made sense for any pirate to be stronger than his captain, that much is established save for the usual exception Buggy. D. Clown.

Otherwise, the captains are always the strongest in any given crew.

Good point

I'm even going to say that works as an admission from Jinbe that Katakuri was stronger than him

 

[M3J]

Buggy crew is the only ones whose captains were weaker than their crew members.

But that is explained away in the manga as their crew following hype and heresay than anything else.

Nevertheless, it shows that it's possible for weak captains to get stronger crewmembers, like Demalo Black or the fake Luffy at Archieapelago.

Buggy's crew is an obvious joke and the only exception. Find yourself a better example mate.



It was not established if Jimbei did or did not get stronger. We don't even know if he was already Shichibukai or not at that point. Point is, he dueled Ace and it was a tie and that was the only true fight we've had from Jimbei nothing else till now except skirmishes. I'm not saying he didn't fight stronger people, just that it was never mentioned.

It is established that Ace did get stronger and rose to YC status, meaning he surpassed Jimbei. Period.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2020 ---

Someone who was getting defeated by Whitebeard in his sleep is what? Super strong?

I'm out.

It's still an example.

They fought for few days to the point that Whitebeard was impressed by Ace's strength. He also became a shichibukai, captain of Sun Pirates, and a well-known fighter who was imprisoned for refusing to fight against Whitebeard.

That logic makes no sense whatsoever. Ace was on Whitebeard's ship while Jinbei had his own crew.

I mean, it's not like Whitebeard was considered the Strongest Man in the World or Man Closest to One Piece or was wrecking people even close to death. Oh wait

 

[jaymizzo]

Someone who was getting defeated by Whitebeard in his sleep is what? Super strong?

In comparison to WB many people are weak so it's not exactly the best example.

Maybe comparing Ace and Jinbeis growth is a stretch but to assume that Jinbei was at his peak when fighting against Ace is equally wrong when the latter became a Schibukai and didn't seem out of place during the marineford war.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 5, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 5, 2020 ---

Nevertheless, it shows that it's possible for weak captains to get stronger crewmembers, like Demalo Black or the fake Luffy at Archieapelago.

Demalo Black is fake Luffy and his crew was actually not stronger than his. He simply used Luffys name to try and acquire a stronger crew which he failed at.

Buggy is a running gag with people/his crew believing him to be at the level of WB or Shanks simply because he disagreed/argued against them or them seeing the value in his already large disposable crew members. He is a complete outlier and most strong crew members end up leaving.

There is no other example that comes to mind of a crew member being stronger than the captain.

 

[HereNThere]

I don't know if we can call that a knockout as she was conscious for few seconds before going to sleep. And that's why I was asking about Smoothie's powers and what she's shown, if anything, as I don't remember.

Dunno, but if her fruit can reduce damage like it does for Luffy, then Fishman karate would put the full hurt on her.

I'd say it was a knock out because, well, his attack knocked her out. It was a delayed effect, but it did the job.

Smoothie's ability is basically to juice and, seemingly, absorb thing. She's been shown juicing humans of different types of conceptual flavors and can squeeze poison out of her body. She's also been shown to be able to grow somehow, with the implication being she's absorbing juices like a sponge or something.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

There is no other example that comes to mind of a crew member being stronger than the captain.

Don Krieg + Gin is questionable.

Hyouzo and Hody Jones also.

Also most Prisoners of Level6 were sure they were stronger then BB and would have left without him aquring WBs fruit.

What about zombieoars and moria?

 

[jaymizzo]

Don Krieg + Gin is questionable.

Hyouzo and Hody Jones also.

Also most Prisoners of Level6 were sure they were stronger then BB and would have left without him aquring WBs fruit.

What about zombieoars and moria?

Don't recall much about Don krieg but Hody was deffo stronger than Hyouzo... The latter just seemed more lethal because of poison IIRC.

Moria and Oars, Moria may not have been physically stronger but his ability ensured most Zombies he reanimated would eventually be obedient to him.

On BB and the prisoners, thinking you are stronger and actually being stronger is a different matter. BB is no slouch and his DF alone would have been enough to deal with most of those prisoners. They joined him prior to him gaining the Gura Gura as well as he simply offered them a place in his crew.

 

[M3J]

I'd say it was a knock out because, well, his attack knocked her out. It was a delayed effect, but it did the job.

Smoothie's ability is basically to juice and, seemingly, absorb thing. She's been shown juicing humans of different types of conceptual flavors and can squeeze poison out of her body. She's also been shown to be able to grow somehow, with the implication being she's absorbing juices like a sponge or something.

Probably, but I still find it weird having her look like she went to sleep rather than pass out from the attack.

Oh, then she probably has an advantage as she can absorb water from the air and weaken or make useless Fishman karate. Am I right in understanding her power?

 

[Fox666]

3. She was never stated to be YC2 or considered 2nd only to Katakuri. No heirarchy was established that I'm aware of.

4. You dont know if BM heirarchy is based on combat or if Smoothie is stronger than Cracker.

I think it was somewhat implied that Big Mom sends her weakest commander to take care of intruders. First she sent Snack, then Cracker.

 

[HereNThere]

Probably, but I still find it weird having her look like she went to sleep rather than pass out from the attack.

Oh, then she probably has an advantage as she can absorb water from the air and weaken or make useless Fishman karate. Am I right in understanding her power?

It's weird, but it was mostly a set up for a joke. Mainly Queen's reaction when Big Mom returned to normal.

Not totally sure. From what we've seen, she has to physically squeeze something to get the juices out. She probably can't grasp air, unless, of course, has an awakened DF. Then she's probably could use an ability like that.

Oh, and her sword can dehydrate whatever it cuts. I think that was in a databook or SBS.