One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[thedude]

Yes but each crew has a completely different hierarchy so they shouldn't be compared.

Whitebeard had 16 Commanders who were all equal in rank. The strongest ones were the numbers #1, #3, and #4, Ace was pretty strong too, but Atmos got toyed with by Doflamingo. Whitebeard also had 44 allied Pirate Captains, with greatly varying strength.

Big Mom has three (formerly four) sweet Commanders, but all of her children serve as executives in her crew. Some are really strong like Oven or Daifuku, but the majority are even weaker than the combatants like Pekoms, Bege or Tamago, who just aren't related to Mama by blood. On top of that, some children are ministers, while others are not, and older children have higher authority than the younger children. Really complicated here.

Kaido has three All Stars, many headliners, of which the Flying Six are the strongest, "Numbers" and a Son.

Blackbeard has 10 Commanders and an unknown amount of subordinate captains.

Shanks hierarchy is unknown but there seems to be around half a dozen standouts if I recall correctly.

If we use the WB Pirates as baseline, then Daifuku, Oven, Perospero, (Compote) and even Tamago and Bege would be YC as they all are strong enough to qualify.

Oda himself never has used the term Yonko Commander as a term for powerlevel comparison. People just want to organize the Pirates into ranks like the Marines have, but that doesn't work out that well.

Roger has an entirely different hierarchy too. Rayleigh is the first mate and might have been the only "commander" below the Captain in the crew, which would make sense if they are similar to the Strawhats, a bunch of friends more than an organization.

We didn't see anything of that fight but we know it only lasted minutes, whereas Admiral vs Admiral can go for days.

Because it is not in the Manga like that. The Manga shows that the Marineford war is in favor of the Marines for most of the time, and only Luffy and his allies managed to give them like 5 minutes of hope.

So then it's a stupid question to even ask.

"Could a YC win"
"yes, like this guy"
"Oh, he doesn't count"

What's the point of this debate?

It lasted a few minutes because of other circumstances. You know this. I gave you the panels. Why do you ignore it? It's in the manga!

I'm out...this is like debating Nik or Shasha....the manga ignored, goal posts moved over and over...it's a pointless task.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2020 ---

@thedude

your able to Express your perspective. I will definitely give you that. But unfortunately, I ll say many disagree with you, because its a old perspective that the manga has opened up on. If you think YC can possibly win, or probably win..ok.

Your wrong, but its ok. Maybe try to lossen up your perspective, re read or watch that war again, see how your thoughts may change. I'm not mad at the opinion you have, really happy how you defend your argument also. Its however incorrect, sorry.

Lol, we'll agree to disagree. I'm not even saying every commander could beat an Admiral. Or that Marco and Jozu would have won. Only that the manga didn't show anything conclusive there, and that the entire battle was stacked against WB from the start.

 

[Fox666]

So then it's a stupid question to even ask.

"Could a YC win"
"yes, like this guy"
"Oh, he doesn't count"

What's the point of this debate?

It lasted a few minutes because of other circumstances. You know this. I gave you the panels. Why do you ignore it? It's in the manga!

I'm out...this is like debating Nik or Shasha....the manga ignored, goal posts moved over and over...it's a pointless task.

I don't think that's how the discussion went.

The point is not that the Whitebeard commanders didn't have circumstances against them at one point or another, but that the Admirals were also ambushed and etc. However the Admirals withstood it, and kept going, but Marco or Jozu were taken down.

Comparing with the Roger Pirates, I think most people here would agree that Rayleigh or Oden would stand a chance against the Admirals.

 

[XXGenesis]

Lol, we'll agree to disagree. I'm not even saying every commander could beat an Admiral. Or that Marco and Jozu would have won. Only that the manga didn't show anything conclusive there, and that the entire battle was stacked against WB from the start.

Yea we can agree to disagree.

Marineford Arc makes power scailing difficult.

Also Portryals of characters strength are all subjective. What's impressive to me may not be impressive to a other and vice versa.

You acknowledge The Marine's are stacked with power More so than even WBP. Great. That was basically my point.

 

[Aki1991]

Marine imo has a lot to offer and is underestimated here. The three old admirals for me are at least (very close) to Yonko level, do not know how to rate the two new ones though. Sengoku and Garp are clearly Yonko level and Kong should be also. Admirals are monsters like Yonkos.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

When will people realize that power level consistency does not exist in one piece

Admirals are EoS enemies so obviously they will be stronger than YC. The powerscaling in OP is broken

 

[XXGenesis]

I'll keep the conversation controversial.

Which Yonkou group has the strongest Commanders?

I'm voting Kaidou. With his 1B bounty Commanders.

Yea the yonkou's are equal. I think they excel as crews in different areas.so just because I believe Kaidou has the strongest comanders, doesnt mean WB who has more commanders arent their equal. In BM case I think she has the weakest commanders but the strongest mid tier fighters.

 

[Holt]

Based off hype, wouldn't that be Shank's commanders? Although it's difficult to gauge since we barely know anything about them.
Shanks YC > Kaido YC > BM YC > BB YC > Luffy YC ( )

 

[McNuss]

So then it's a stupid question to even ask.

"Could a YC win"
"yes, like this guy"
"Oh, he doesn't count"

What's the point of this debate?

It lasted a few minutes because of other circumstances. You know this. I gave you the panels. Why do you ignore it? It's in the manga!

I'm out...this is like debating Nik or Shasha....the manga ignored, goal posts moved over and over...it's a pointless task.

The thing is, even the very stretchy term YC is not applicable to Rayleigh. Roger is not a Yonko, he was the Pirate King.

But I think current Rayleigh would also get in trouble in an extended fight with the Admirals. He is already way past his prime, but the Admirals are still in theirs.

The rest has been already said by Fox666. We do have comparable data on both the Admirals and the Whitebeard Commanders, and the Whitebeard Commanders just perform much worse.

You also have Oda saying if Akainu would be the protagonist, he would find One Piece within two years. No other character has such a thing going for him.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2020 ---

When will people realize that power level consistency does not exist in one piece

Admirals are EoS enemies so obviously they will be stronger than YC. The powerscaling in OP is broken

Actually quite the opposite. It's very tame compared to Dragon Ball since many top-tier characters get introduced early on.

I may or may not start a little project here soon, which would result in everyone being able to make their own complete all characters in all different versions tier list step by step. But that depends on how many people here are interested.

 

[Aki1991]

Based off hype, wouldn't that be Shank's commanders? Although it's difficult to gauge since we barely know anything about them.
Shanks YC > Kaido YC > BM YC > BB YC > Luffy YC ( )

This! Shanks commanders are hyped. I think they will have the highest commanders bounty.

 

[Luke Beifong]

Which Yonkou group has the strongest Commanders?

BB Commanders - WB Commanders - Shanks Commanders - Kaido Commanders - BM Commanders

I see BB crew as the strongest crew since the Rocks. All of them seems pretty strong.

WB Commanders are in second only because of Marco, who are said to be one of few people in the world capable of fighting BB.

Shanks Commanders are said to be close in power with Shanks itself, so they are almost Yonko level.

Kaido Commanders seems a lot stronger than BM Commanders, if we stop to think about it, 3 of the former 4 are beat by someone of the worst generation. Snack are beat by Urouge, Cracker and Katakuri are beat by Luffy and one of them got injured by Kid. On the other hand, Kaido’s Commanders are quite hyped to be strong.

 

[The Prince of Darkness]

Based off hype, wouldn't that be Shank's commanders? Although it's difficult to gauge since we barely know anything about them.
Shanks YC > Kaido YC > BM YC > BB YC > Luffy YC ( )

I don't think BM YC are weaker than Kaido YC
I don't see Katakuri losing to someone like Jack or Queen. King is another story since we don't know much about him but still I don't think he could easily defeat him.
Same with Smoothie, dinosaurs or not her DF would be a big help against someone like Queen.
I'm sure the only reason their bounties are bigger is because they like to show off in public unlike BM YC who stay into their territory.

Also the Roger Pirates were monsters, comparing them with the Yonko and their crew of today would be an insult.
Rayleigh is the Dark King, the man who could be King but prefer to stay in the shadow of Roger.
I dare to say that even now, unless his really sick, he wouldn't lost in 1vs1 against an Admiral

 

[thedude]

I'll keep the conversation controversial.

Which Yonkou group has the strongest Commanders?

I'm voting Kaidou. With his 1B bounty Commanders.

Yea the yonkou's are equal. I think they excel as crews in different areas.so just because I believe Kaidou has the strongest comanders, doesnt mean WB who has more commanders arent their equal. In BM case I think she has the weakest commanders but the strongest mid tier fighters.

Shanks. His crew is smallest yet they are acknowledged as a force that the other Yonko have to worry about (see Big Mom talking about needing Giants to beat them and get to one piece). If his crew is smaller than the others by so much, and yet they are at that level, it stands to reason that his commanders are the strongest.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2020 ---

BB Commanders - WB Commanders - Shanks Commanders - Kaido Commanders - BM Commanders

I see BB crew as the strongest crew since the Rocks. All of them seems pretty strong.

WB Commanders are in second only because of Marco, who are said to be one of few people in the world capable of fighting BB.

Shanks Commanders are said to be close in power with Shanks itself, so they are almost Yonko level.

Kaido Commanders seems a lot stronger than BM Commanders, if we stop to think about it, 3 of the former 4 are beat by someone of the worst generation. Snack are beat by Urouge, Cracker and Katakuri are beat by Luffy and one of them got injured by Kid. On the other hand, Kaido’s Commanders are quite hyped to be strong.

I think that the BM commanders losing to Luffy and Urouge says more about Luffy and Urouge than about the commanders. Also...Luffy would have lost had Katakuri decided to end the fight. After this arc, 3 of Kaido's commanders will lose. Does that suddenly even them out with BM's crew? Heck, one may lose to Sanji, and what would that say! lol

 

[Holt]

Well of BM's commanders, Katakuri is clearly a huge cut above the rest. Jack attempted to break out doffy agaisnt Fujitora and Sengoku and still sunk half the ships. That's insane when you think about it honestly. Jack also battled Inu and Neko for 5 days and held his own pretty well. Then we have king/queen on two occasions managing to negate BM or the BMPs. Somewhat misleading strength wise but worthy of note nonetheless. Overall I believe Katakuri would best Queen, Jack. He should be slightly above King imo (future sight) but Kaido's YC seem overall very decent. Or at least they have more going for them now.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

The thing is, even the very stretchy term YC is not applicable to Rayleigh. Roger is not a Yonko, he was the Pirate King.

But I think current Rayleigh would also get in trouble in an extended fight with the Admirals. He is already way past his prime, but the Admirals are still in theirs.

The rest has been already said by Fox666. We do have comparable data on both the Admirals and the Whitebeard Commanders, and the Whitebeard Commanders just perform much worse.

You also have Oda saying if Akainu would be the protagonist, he would find One Piece within two years. No other character has such a thing going for him.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2020 ---

Actually quite the opposite. It's very tame compared to Dragon Ball since many top-tier characters get introduced early on.

I may or may not start a little project here soon, which would result in everyone being able to make their own complete all characters in all different versions tier list step by step. But that depends on how many people here are interested.

Of course the term Yonko Commander applies to Rayleigh. Before Roger became the Pirate King, he was something of an Emperor.
Oda mentioned very recently that before the current Yonko generation, in an SBS IIRC, 3 people ruled the seas (Sanko?) - Roger, Whitebeard, and Shiki. Big Mom back then was already on the rise to Yonkoship (I think he mentioned her territory or something...).
So yeah Roger was a Yonko (in loose terms) similar to the current crop of Shanks, Kaido, Big Mom, and Blackbeard.

The Yonko system (4 Emperors) was a thing even before the Great pirate age. Confirmed

And with regards to YCs, where Roger had Rayleigh, Whitebeard had Oden. Where there's Scopper Gabban, WB had Captain John, and so on...
The second in command (YC1) of any Yonko crew are apparently the strongest after the captain regardless of the strength gap between them and their captain.
It's a trend that continues up till date.
A quick list would be:

Roger - Rayleigh
Whitebeard (Prime) - Oden
Whitebeard (Old) - Marco
Shanks - Beckman
Kaido - King
Big Mom - Katakuri
Blackbeard - Shilew

Hope this helps

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2020 ---

Well of BM's commanders, Katakuri is clearly a huge cut above the rest. Jack attempted to break out doffy agaisnt Fujitora and Sengoku and still sunk half the ships. That's insane when you think about it honestly. Jack also battled Inu and Neko for 5 days and held his own pretty well. Then we have king/queen on two occasions managing to negate BM or the BMPs. Somewhat misleading strength wise but worthy of note nonetheless. Overall I believe Katakuri would best Queen, Jack. He should be slightly above King imo (future sight) but Kaido's YC seem overall very decent. Or at least they have more going for them now.

It's imperative to remember that what Jack did was on sea, not on land. There's a reason sea battles aren't really taken seriously in One Piece.
Cutting down ships should be a piece of cake for any strong swordsman.
He sank a few ships and he was taken down. I'd like to see him confront an Admiral on land.

Cracker to me seems more dangerous than Jack due to his endless biscuits that can tank Gear 3 hits without problems. Not to mention his superior Haki (Both he and Katakuri have been noted to possess crazy CoA).
The only interesting member of the Beast Pirates apart from their savage captain is King.

 

[Luke Beifong]

Shanks. His crew is smallest yet they are acknowledged as a force that the other Yonko have to worry about (see Big Mom talking about needing Giants to beat them and get to one piece). If his crew is smaller than the others by so much, and yet they are at that level, it stands to reason that his commanders are the strongest.

I completely agree with this

I think that the BM commanders losing to Luffy and Urouge says more about Luffy and Urouge than about the commanders. Also...Luffy would have lost had Katakuri decided to end the fight. After this arc, 3 of Kaido's commanders will lose. Does that suddenly even them out with BM's crew? Heck, one may lose to Sanji, and what would that say! lol

I’m not diminishing Luffy or Uroge for defeating Snack or Cracker, but you can see them beating Jack? I can’t, for sure. Uroge I can’t say much because we don’t know a lot about him, but Luffy are not ready to face a guy like Jack at the time he defeated Cracker. Cracker is strong, but he’s down with one blow. Jack surely can receive a lot of Luffy’s attacks and keep fighting.

As you say that one of Kaido’s Commanders must be defeated by Sanji, well, in my opinion Oda will have to make good explanations about this. Oda forget the SH after the TS, we don’t know how strong any of them are now. The only SH I can see winning against a YC is Jimbe. I can’t see Zoro or Sanji defeating Queen or King. To be honest, I can see any way for Zoro to defeat a YC. Sanji can awaken his lineage mutation and have the raid suit, I don’t like so much of this explanation but I can see it’s happening, but I can’t see a excuse for Zoro winning against a YC. Sorry guys, but I can’t see Enma as enough explanation for Zoro turning way stronger and defeating a YC.

 

[HereNThere]

Not really. Akainu shrugged off the attacks from Marco, Vista and Curiel like child's play. When he was facing all of the remaining commanders, plus Crocodile and Andre, Akainu still took out Curiel.

Sengoku himself was at him at that moment. They were definitely paying attention to Blackbeard. But had Shanks not appeared, sinking the Island would have been his only way out.

We've moved on, but I'll just address a few things and we'll just leave it at an amicable disagreement.

I was mainly referring to Marco and Jozu for this discussion, since we were mainly discussing the major Commanders. The other Commanders (sans Ace and, to a lesser extent, Vista) are pretty pointless, if not useless. Curiel (I didn't even remember his name) wasn't near my mind. Akainu also didn't shrug them off, he noted that they were going to be troublesome. That skirmish wasn't seen, but all three appeared later no worst for wear.

I think the Admirals are top tier as well. Most likely 2nd to the Yonkou, if not on their level. But the manga showed that that particular duo from Whitebeard's Commanders could hang with them, at least, temporarily. We don't know the full extent before they got distracted, but they were doing fine.

As for Blackbeard, like I said, the majority of the marines weren't paying him any attention. Plus he seemed way more confident in taking on Sengoku than he did Shanks. He didn't seem ready to go until Shanks arrived.

I'll keep the conversation controversial.

Which Yonkou group has the strongest Commanders?

Off of sheer hype, it's looking like Shanks and Blackbeard.

Beckman, Yasopp, and Roo were notable enough to be mentioned by name during the Yonkou roll call.

And Blackbeard's crew is just stockpiling fruits. We don't know his top Commanders, but Shiyu has been heavily implied to be the crews 2nd.

After them? It's up in the air. We haven't seen enough from Kaido's group to make the call for sure. At the very least, they've shown to be more impressive physical feats than The Sweet Commanders.

 

[M3J]

We know that Blackbeard at that time would retreat from facing an Admiral when he tried to exchange Bonney for a warship, then retreated when Akainu arrived. He just didn't have much time for that in Marineford as Sengoku was already at them.

Mihawk, as a Shishibukai, would have eventually gotten into conflict with the SHs, but now the Shishibukai are gone. That reduces the number of plausible scenarios for him and Zoro having a fight, because the plot is always centered around what Luffy does. The plot most likely won't stop for Zoro and Mihawk fighting it out on friendly terms.

The gardening panel is so much contradictory to the gloomy Dracula swordmaster image, that I don't think it was without a purpose.

If Sengoku and time were why he retreated, then why did he say fighting against Shanks was too much even for him when retreating, rather than retreating right after taking Whitebeard's power or when Sengoku attacked?

It most likely will. The fact that Mihawk is the World's Strongest Swordsman is reason enough for Zoro and Mihawk to fight, unless Zoro either ceases to chase that title or Mihawk is no longer the WSS. Why would the manga have Zoro's goal to be the WSS but not have him take on the WSS just because it "stops plot?"

Losses in One Piece aren't the end all be all when it comes to high tiers.

Aokiji lost to Akainu, but I wouldn't say Akainu is guaranteed another win.

Luffy won against Katakuri, but I doubt he'd expect to win comfortably if they had a rematch.

The point is that the YC were keeping up with the Admirals until they dropped their guard.

As for Blackbeard, I think he was confident in destroying Marineford because most of the Marines weren't giving him attention. They were focused on stamping out Luffy and the rest of the WB pirates. But when Shanks pointed him out specifically, he took that as his cue to bounce. Blackbeard only acts when he has a clear advantage. It bites him in the ass sometimes because he gets cocky, but he's definitely an opportunist.

Facts.

However the Admirals withstood it, and kept going, but Marco or Jozu were taken down.

Marco withstood a laser through his body and still kept going. The admirals never had seastone cuffs slapped on them like he did, to boot, so they could recover or remain impervious to attacks.



Shanks' commanders seem to be among the best because it took a small crew to stop the war, rather than have the Marines and even Blackbeard try to take Shanks out. They definitely seem capable of holding their own against most opponents.

 

[XXGenesis]

Just to address Luffy PL. Luffy was VC4 start of TS.

Doffy is a VC4 lv threat, I think many agree.

Other SuperNova went through trial & mostly error or joined up with Yonkou. So their PL's are pretty tame. Urouge VC4; Kidd VC4?; Capone > Pekoms so he's around 400k ish Law has 500k bounty, Hawkins is def similar in terms of PL to law. Etc etc

I need to re-read Act 2 Wano. Very minor details of that Marine meeting keep slipping my mind.

So Shanks Commanders are in the lead by Hype. Kopy.

BB 2nd only because he's a EOS type of villain. So his 10 captains gathering DF, are gonna be OP, soon.

 

[thedude]

I completely agree with this



I’m not diminishing Luffy or Uroge for defeating Snack or Cracker, but you can see them beating Jack? I can’t, for sure. Uroge I can’t say much because we don’t know a lot about him, but Luffy are not ready to face a guy like Jack at the time he defeated Cracker. Cracker is strong, but he’s down with one blow. Jack surely can receive a lot of Luffy’s attacks and keep fighting.

As you say that one of Kaido’s Commanders must be defeated by Sanji, well, in my opinion Oda will have to make good explanations about this. Oda forget the SH after the TS, we don’t know how strong any of them are now. The only SH I can see winning against a YC is Jimbe. I can’t see Zoro or Sanji defeating Queen or King. To be honest, I can see any way for Zoro to defeat a YC. Sanji can awaken his lineage mutation and have the raid suit, I don’t like so much of this explanation but I can see it’s happening, but I can’t see a excuse for Zoro winning against a YC. Sorry guys, but I can’t see Enma as enough explanation for Zoro turning way stronger and defeating a YC.

I mean, yes? Luffy beating Jack at least. Like I said, he's going to beat Kaido, so yes, of course I can see him beating Jack.

As to Zoro and Sanji beating a YC, well, they are going to have to reach that level eventually, and since the manga is about 80% of the way done, and it's likely Blackbeard is next or soon, it's going to happen soon (well, plot wise, lol. Oda writing time, now in the age of Covid may make soon take 5 years...).

When all else fails remember: This is a shonen manga, and it follows the rules of shonen manga, lol. They will get stronger, and it will happen against guys you think they can't beat at the moment. It's just how these things work!

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 21, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 21, 2020 ---

Just to address Luffy PL. Luffy was VC4 start of TS.

Doffy is a VC4 lv threat, I think many agree.

Other SuperNova went through trial & mostly error or joined up with Yonkou. So their PL's are pretty tame. Urouge VC4; Kidd VC4?; Capone > Pekoms so he's around 400k ish Law has 500k bounty, Hawkins is def similar in terms of PL to law. Etc etc

I need to re-read Act 2 Wano. Very minor details of that Marine meeting keep slipping my mind.

So Shanks Commanders are in the lead by Hype. Kopy.

BB 2nd only because he's a EOS type of villain. So his 10 captains gathering DF, are gonna be OP, soon.

Remember, Law's bounty froze after he became a Schibukai. So it's meaningless as a way to gauge his strength.

And given how the plot is moving, Law and Kid are going to be Luffy's WB. Friendly rivals (not always so friendly...but friendly enough) who are the equivalent of Yonko in the EOS.

 

[Luke Beifong]

I mean, yes? Luffy beating Jack at least. Like I said, he's going to beat Kaido, so yes, of course I can see him beating Jack.

As to Zoro and Sanji beating a YC, well, they are going to have to reach that level eventually, and since the manga is about 80% of the way done, and it's likely Blackbeard is next or soon, it's going to happen soon (well, plot wise, lol. Oda writing time, now in the age of Covid may make soon take 5 years...).

When all else fails remember: This is a shonen manga, and it follows the rules of shonen manga, lol. They will get stronger, and it will happen against guys you think they can't beat at the moment. It's just how these things work!

Yes, sometimes I get sad for OP being a shounen, not a seinen.

I know Zoro and Sanji will eventually reach YC level, but OP seems to be rushing you know? They seems to be so faraway to get close this level that I feel that when I see they fighting will be so strange... Don’t feel right, not now at least

If Luffy fight Jack now, he surely can win. But before Whole Cake i don’t think he can beat Jack. Like I have said, Jack can take several hits from Luffy and hit back much harder than Luffy can tank at that time.

But again, that’s only my point of view, I don’t think Luffy can beat Jack at the time he beats Cracker. But I will be honest with you, you make me think. I still don’t chance my mind, but I will think more about it. I will read Cracker fight again and the fights Jack have and will come back