One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

Zoro cut its torso in half, Sanji broke its neck... how would it continue after a single one of these attacks?

It's a robot... who knows? But I'm saying Sanji or Zoro alone could one-shot the Pacifista while Franky would probably need more than one attack.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

I honestly think, that every SH can defeat a Pacifista. Monster trio and Jinbei are a nonbrainer. Franky is a pacifista by himself, Brook can freeze it, Robin stomps, or dismobilizes, Chopper has his Monsterpoint under control, Nami has Zeus and thunderbased attacks, Usopp his Popgreens and CoO.

 

[Mwhitt]

I like it how you tried to wiggle out of posting better DC feat for Sanji. Manga fact remains that Sanji doesnt have better DC feat than Franky.

How will Sanji damage real Franky inside the Shogun if he cant pass through the doors?

The initial point still stands - Franky's lasers are more destructive than Sanji's kicks.

There is no wiggle your argument is invalid. Your argument lies solely in the strength of the door. Saying he "couldn't" get out doesn't make sense when he didn't use any power moves in an attempt to do so. Franky used one of his strongest moves to do so, so that boils down to an argument based on a regular Sanji kick vs one of Franky's most powerful moves Radical beam its a dumb comparison and not fair. If Sanji used any of his diable jambe moves and it didn't work that would be a valid argument. And the fact that Sanji kicked open a door right after that when they encountered the children conveys how silly the argument is, because it leads to a discussion of how strong are the doors in comparison to each other. Your "manga fact" is contradicted about 10 pages later when he kicked open a door.

This is the thing I'm not debating DC feats you are I'm pointing out how invalid your only point is.

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This door was built to absorb all shocks (ie a standard kick won't work) but they commented about the burn marks. Meaning Franky's beam melted the door not blunt forced it open. Diable jambe is fire based there is nothing that says a diable jambe kick would not have yielded the same results making your only point nonconclusive. Anything other than that is your own speculation

 

[HereNThere]

Strawhats have things they can and can't do. That's literally been a theme in the series since Ennis Lobby. Nobody in the crew except Franky at that time probably couldn't have done anything to that door.

Does it really matter at this point? The Strawhats are about to show some powered up abilities, so Sanji and Franky then aren't even Sanji and Franky now. Nevermind the fact that it's a goddamn door. A door made of Wapolmetal, but a door nonetheless.

 

[Fox666]

It's a robot... who knows? But I'm saying Sanji or Zoro alone could one-shot the Pacifista while Franky would probably need more than one attack.

Super Radical Beam should take down a Pacifista with one attack, if it can melt a big hole through it.

But it's not like Franky is at advantage against a Pacifista, since they also have lasers.

--- Double Post Merged, May 9, 2020, Original Post Date: May 9, 2020 ---

Strawhats have things they can and can't do. That's literally been a theme in the series since Ennis Lobby. Nobody in the crew except Franky at that time probably couldn't have done anything to that door.

Not with blunt attacks... but Zoro should be capable of slicing it too.

 

[Mwhitt]

I like it how you tried to wiggle out of posting better DC feat for Sanji. Manga fact remains that Sanji doesnt have better DC feat than Franky.

How will Sanji damage real Franky inside the Shogun if he cant pass through the doors?

The initial point still stands - Franky's lasers are more destructive than Sanji's kicks.

Here we have a regular Sanji kick grounding Ikaros Much.

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Much was down for an unspecified amount of time before getting up, four chapters passed in our time and he had to be informed of what transpired indicting that he was out.

Here is Franky in General form unable to down Much and commenting he must be a leader as he got right back up unlike he did when Sanji kicked him a clear indication Sanji's kick was more powerful.

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Here we have the results of hell memories on Wadatsumi and Franky Radical beam

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Both yielded similar results with them both being burned. Franky's beam caused an explosion and Sanji set a giant fishman ablaze entirely. Sanji downed Ikaros Much Franky in General form could not and had to use his beam to do so. The door is oblivious to blunt force (ie a standard kick or a punch) so Franky melted it. There is nothing that says diable jambe could not do the same. Your point is moot and nonconclusive the door is already a silly argument but there is nothing to say Sanji couldn’t set the entire room ablaze and escape. End of discussion

 

[HereNThere]

Not with blunt attacks... but Zoro should be capable of slicing it too.

Eh, we've no real proof of that. His cutting ability isn't infallible, at least not back then. Current Zoro? That's up in the air, but I'm more likely to buy it.

But since he was having issues with Birdcage, I don't see him being able to do Wapolmetal.

 

[Mwhitt]

Eh, we've no real proof of that. His cutting ability isn't infallible, at least not back then. Current Zoro? That's up in the air, but I'm more likely to buy it.

But since he was having issues with Birdcage, I don't see him being able to do Wapolmetal.

They seem to believe cutting Pica when in stone form is sufficient enough evidence to say Zoro can cut pretty much anything, any type of metal specialized or not. Their logic is well............it was alot of stone. Please God don't bring up birdcage haha

 

[Fox666]

Eh, we've no real proof of that. His cutting ability isn't infallible, at least not back then. Current Zoro? That's up in the air, but I'm more likely to buy it.

But since he was having issues with Birdcage, I don't see him being able to do Wapolmetal.

The Pacifistas are made of a metal harder than steel, if not Wapolmetal. If Zoro could cut them, he probably could cut these steel walls.

The Birdcage may simple be indestructible, like Bartolomeo's barrier. But even if it has a limit, it probably doesn't serve as a power comparison of anything.

 

[HereNThere]

The Pacifistas are made of a metal harder than steel, if not Wapolmetal. If Zoro could cut them, he probably could cut these steel walls.

If they were made of Wapolmetal, I would think that Sanji would've done more damage to the door than he did, seeing the damage he (and Luffy for that matter) did to the Pacifista.

I think the Pacifista Models that we saw are made of strong stuff, but not on the level of Wapolmetal. There's nothing that confirms it though as far as I can remember. We'll probably get an idea when the new models are shown.

 

[nik87]

There is no wiggle your argument is invalid. Your argument lies solely in the strength of the door. Saying he "couldn't" get out doesn't make sense when he didn't use any power moves in an attempt to do so. Franky used one of his strongest moves to do so, so that boils down to an argument based on a regular Sanji kick vs one of Franky's most powerful moves Radical beam its a dumb comparison and not fair. If Sanji used any of his diable jambe moves and it didn't work that would be a valid argument. And the fact that Sanji kicked open a door right after that when they encountered the children conveys how silly the argument is, because it leads to a discussion of how strong are the doors in comparison to each other. Your "manga fact" is contradicted about 10 pages later when he kicked open a door.

This is the thing I'm not debating DC feats you are I'm pointing out how invalid your only point is.

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This door was built to absorb all shocks (ie a standard kick won't work) but they commented about the burn marks. Meaning Franky's beam melted the door not blunt forced it open. Diable jambe is fire based there is nothing that says a diable jambe kick would not have yielded the same results making your only point nonconclusive. Anything other than that is your own speculation

We are discussing DC stat between Sanji and Franky and you are not trying to wiggle out?
Sanji's DC feats are very poor and everyone knows that, you included. Franky's lasers are far more destructive, it is not even questionable.
If Sanji's kick can defeat a Pacifista, be sure that Franky's laser can too, any Strawhat member can beat a Pacifista, imo, they arent a challenge anymore.

Kicking open a door should be impressive? Let's see that panel and check how much DC was displayed in that feat?
Diable Jambe is fire, not a focused light like Franky's laser is. Nothing says that DJ would do any better than non-DJ.

Please God don't bring up birdcage haha

I love it when someone brings up Birdcage. I follow up with - post proof that anyone has ever tried cutting it.

 

[Mwhitt]

We are discussing DC stat between Sanji and Franky and you are not trying to wiggle out?
Sanji's DC feats are very poor and everyone knows that, you included. Franky's lasers are far more destructive, it is not even questionable.
If Sanji's kick can defeat a Pacifista, be sure that Franky's laser can too, any Strawhat member can beat a Pacifista, imo, they arent a challenge anymore.

Kicking open a door should be impressive? Let's see that panel and check how much DC was displayed in that feat?
Diable Jambe is fire, not a focused light like Franky's laser is. Nothing says that DJ would do any better than non-DJ.


I love it when someone brings up Birdcage. I follow up with - post proof that anyone has ever tried cutting it.

Read....my....post....you are debating DC feats I'm saying you using a door as a DC feat to knock Sanji is dumb. That's literally all I have been saying this entire time.

Oh now we are saying because Sanji didn't destroy the children's room when he kicked the door open its not valid? You state kicking the door open isn't impressive but you also stated Sanji was "unable" to get pass the previous door. Melting a door down the hallway is an impressive feat by your admission. Caesar himself said the door was specifically made shock proof, Franky's beams worked because it melted it. There is no proof you can provide that proves Sanji's diable jambe heat cannot melt it. In a post after the one you just quoted I put multiple links to manga chapters of opponents that were hit by Franky's beam and Sanji's hell memories. Franky's opponent was charred as was Sanji's opponent who was a much bigger giant who was completely set ablaze and charred. How can you prove that the heat Sanji produces is inferior to Franky's beam? You cannot say it melted it because its a "focused" beam of light as you have no earthly idea the name or the properties of the metal of the door so thats your own speculation which isn't "manga fact". Your retort to Sanji kicking open the door down the hallway is well that wasn't impressive when there is nothing to suggest that the metal is any different from the previous door you were so impressed Franky melted. Trying to demean Sanji kicking the door open because he didn't destroy eveything around it is now demeaning your own argument into a pure flash Michael Bay contest. You started the discussion using the phrase "manga fact" and its not its your opinion so say that. If you said your opinion from the jump we would not be having this convo.

 

[nik87]

Read....my....post....you are debating DC feats I'm saying you using a door as a DC feat to knock Sanji is dumb. That's literally all I have been saying this entire time.

Oh now we are saying because Sanji didn't destroy the children's room when he kicked the door open its not valid? You state kicking the door open isn't impressive but you also stated Sanji was "unable" to get pass the previous door. Melting a door down the hallway is an impressive feat by your admission. Caesar himself said the door was specifically made shock proof, Franky's beams worked because it melted it. There is no proof you can provide that proves Sanji's diable jambe heat cannot melt it. In a post after the one you just quoted I put multiple links to manga chapters of opponents that were hit by Franky's beam and Sanji's hell memories. Franky's opponent was charred as was Sanji's opponent who was a much bigger giant who was completely set ablaze and charred. How can you prove that the heat Sanji produces is inferior to Franky's beam? You cannot say it melted it because its a "focused" beam of light as you have no earthly idea the name or the properties of the metal of the door so thats your own speculation which isn't "manga fact". Your retort to Sanji kicking open the door down the hallway is well that wasn't impressive when there is nothing to suggest that the metal is any different from the previous door you were so impressed Franky melted. Trying to demean Sanji kicking the door open because he didn't destroy eveything around it is now demeaning your own argument into a pure flash Michael Bay contest. You started the discussion using the phrase "manga fact" and its not its your opinion so say that. If you said your opinion from the jump we would not be having this convo.

And I said that you were free to bring any other DC feat for Sanji if door was too tough... However, Sanji doesnt have anything in that department.
I said post the panel where Sanji kicked the doors open so we can see it, I dont remember any DC happening from Sanji.
Sanji's DJ didnt melt Vergo's face and it will melt the factory doors?

 

[Mwhitt]

And I said that you were free to bring any other DC feat for Sanji if door was too tough... However, Sanji doesnt have anything in that department.
I said post the panel where Sanji kicked the doors open so we can see it, I dont remember any DC happening from Sanji.
Sanji's DJ didnt melt Vergo's face and it will melt the factory doors?

Why do I have to post the panel of Sanji kicking the metal door when we all read the manga and know what happened? Go find it from my other post.

I don't need to bring any feat up to prove my point that your logic is silly and similar to that of a child entertained by the jingle of car keys. You are literally proving my point with every post, why tf does Vergo face have to melt for the door to melt? Are you simply implying Vergo's face to be made of metal? Why? Is it from Sanji statement of him being made metal? So that means you have no idea what the metal of the door was therefore its your own speculation that Sanji's diable jambe heat cannot melt it, your speculation is not manga fact which you stated you have. You are now literally pulling things out the air grabbing for straws because you have nothing you made the statement go down swinging at least. This is not a DC debate you are trying to drag me into this is a you have no manga fact so state it as speculation debate.

 

[nik87]

Why do I have to post the panel of Sanji kicking the metal door when we all read the manga and know what happened? Go find it from my other post.

Because you are the one who claimed that Sanji kicking the door open as a DC feat, the burden of proof is on you.

your speculation is not manga fact which you stated you have.

It is not a speculation, it is manga fact that Franky has gone through the doors which stopped Sanji who tried to open them few times.

This is not a DC debate you are trying to drag me into this is a you have no manga fact so state it as speculation debate.

I am trying to drag you into posting a better DC feat for Sanji than Franky's and I am failing at it.

 

[Fox666]

If they were made of Wapolmetal, I would think that Sanji would've done more damage to the door than he did, seeing the damage he (and Luffy for that matter) did to the Pacifista.

I think the Pacifista Models that we saw are made of strong stuff, but not on the level of Wapolmetal. There's nothing that confirms it though as far as I can remember. We'll probably get an idea when the new models are shown.

While Sanji couldn't break through the wall, the smashed it. Is that not the equivalent of breaking the neck of a Pacifista, or damaging its internal components?

I love it when someone brings up Birdcage. I follow up with - post proof that anyone has ever tried cutting it.

Is that not an odd thing to say? Everyone was just pushing their swords against it, but not trying to cut?

And Zoro clearly tried to cut it with some attack:

Spoiler

And can you Zoro was a good distance away from the birdcage:

The buildings are behind Zoro, but still inside the bird cage

 

[nik87]

Is that not an odd thing to say? Everyone was just pushing their swords against it, but not trying to cut?

And Zoro clearly tried to cut it with some attack:

Spoiler

And can you Zoro was a good distance away from the birdcage:

The buildings are behind Zoro, but still inside the bird cage

There is not a single instance where Zoro tries to cut it. Even worse, there is not a single instance anyone is thinking about cutting it.

 

[Fox666]

There is not a single instance where Zoro tries to cut it. Even worse, there is not a single instance anyone is thinking about cutting it.

What is Zoro doing in the picture I posted? Where does that "explosion" in front of him comes from?

 

[Mwhitt]

Because you are the one who claimed that Sanji kicking the door open as a DC feat, the burden of proof is on you.

It is not a speculation, it is manga fact that Franky has gone through the doors which stopped Sanji who tried to open them few times.

I am trying to drag you into posting a better DC feat for Sanji than Franky's and I am failing at it.

See you aren't even understanding my previous post I didn't say Sanji kicking open another door was a feat I compared the two doors to highlight its SILLY. I've answered EVERYTHING you are saying and keep saying the same thing over and over. Then you bring up Vergo's face melting like that has anything to do with the discussion. Why didn't Franky's beam "melt" Ikaros Much since its so destructive? Why did Franky have to use one of his strongest attacks to down Ikaros Much when Sanji just regular kicked him in the face and accomplished the same thing? I'm failing at getting you to debate door power levels once you start that I'm done it would be a complete joke then

--- Double Post Merged, May 9, 2020, Original Post Date: May 9, 2020 ---

There is not a single instance where Zoro tries to cut it. Even worse, there is not a single instance anyone is thinking about cutting it.

So pushing the sharp edges of both his swords while using armament haki to do so does not imply he couldn't cut it? LOL

 

[Aliocha]

The door was made to absorb shocks, not heat. So Franky just melted it. It is stupid to discuss it

Sanji sank Vergo into a steel wall a few chapters later