One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[thedude]

Who exactly has Sanji faced and defeated in this post timeskip that you would place him above Zoro or even Jinbe?

Even if we were to set that aside or include pre-timeskip feats (both shown and told), Sanji would still rank below these two. Especially since the timeskip, neither have really had to go all out against worthy opponents. After Wano we can re-evaluate that, I think this is the arc that will give us a much clearer picture of where these 3 guys rank, as there are many powerful individual in the enemy's forces.

Agreed. No one other than Luffy has had moments that show their level. Everyone else has been in standby mode. Hopefully Wano shows us where they all stand.

 

[Mwhitt]

Prior to learning the new CoA, LUffy was not strong enough to even hurt a Yonkou. Kaidou and Big Mom are extremely durable, and Kaidou's strong enough to one-shot Luffy. I'm not sure if this power will help him beat Kaidou, but it'll be a super difficult fight nonetheless.

If this advanced haki ends up being all Luffy shows and nothing new (gear variations, awakening, etc) and he is able to successfully damage Kaido then yeah he kinda was strong enough to fight them he just didn't have knowledge or mastery over his own power. Hyo didn't teach Luffy how to use advanced haki from step 1. Luffy performed it and Hyo pointed out to him that it's what he performed on a subconscious level out of desperation. He then guided him how to master the haki he already was capable of to use it at will. Kaido and Big Mom are durable they are monsters. Thats why I'm skeptical of the advanced haki being this magical solution cause even then to me it doesn't seem like enough.

Now if Luffy uses advanced haki and it fails. Then yes I would be incorrect which is 100% fine. I would like to be wrong cause it should require more than just that to harm Kaido much more defeat him.

 

[HereNThere]

I wouldn't say Luffy is strong enough to go toe to toe with a Yonkou. Him learning this advanced Haki is basically just giving him the tools to actually be able to do something with Kaido and Big Mom.

It's like him learning basic haki. He can touch and potentially hurt folks like Akainu and Aokiji now, but defeating them is another thing entirely.

Big Mom and Kaido will feel some pain now, but all that means is that they'll probably put effort in beating him down now rather than swatting him like a gnat.

 

[Fox666]

If this advanced haki ends up being all Luffy shows and nothing new (gear variations, awakening, etc) and he is able to successfully damage Kaido then yeah he kinda was strong enough to fight them he just didn't have knowledge or mastery over his own power. Hyo didn't teach Luffy how to use advanced haki from step 1. Luffy performed it and Hyo pointed out to him that it's what he performed on a subconscious level out of desperation. He then guided him how to master the haki he already was capable of to use it at will. Kaido and Big Mom are durable they are monsters. Thats why I'm skeptical of the advanced haki being this magical solution cause even then to me it doesn't seem like enough.

Now if Luffy uses advanced haki and it fails. Then yes I would be incorrect which is 100% fine. I would like to be wrong cause it should require more than just that to harm Kaido much more defeat him.

Kaido was still strong enough to defeat Luffy with a single attack, and fast enough that Luffy couldn't react.

Also Luffy struggled against Doflamingo and Kaido... from a few conversations, it was clear Kaido and Big Mom are on a whole different level from them.

If Luffy is able to fight Kaido now, he didn't just learned Hyo, but got much stronger than before.

 

[HereNThere]

This is why the fight against Kaido needs to at least start out as a big dog pile by the Supernova. Luffy (and Kidd) got some training in the prisoner mines, but beating up on some prisoners while handicapped isn't exactly the ultimate training regime to fight a Yonkou. The next couple of weeks probably offered more, but again, that's not nearly enough time to raise their physical capabilities to a respectable level.

There needs to be some serious growth mid battle before they even begin to make some decent strides against Kaido. And even then, I expect Big Mom to help them out in some way before things even begin to go their way.

 

[Mwhitt]

I wouldn't say Luffy is strong enough to go toe to toe with a Yonkou. Him learning this advanced Haki is basically just giving him the tools to actually be able to do something with Kaido and Big Mom.

It's like him learning basic haki. He can touch and potentially hurt folks like Akainu and Aokiji now, but defeating them is another thing entirely.

Big Mom and Kaido will feel some pain now, but all that means is that they'll probably put effort in beating him down now rather than swatting him like a gnat.

I never said he was capable of going toe to toe with a yonko. I said he possessed the firepower and tools necessary to fight one. And he did, he was guided by Hyo to perfect a form of haki he could already use. I've said fighting a yonko and defeating are two entirely different things. Can't tell if you are completely agreeing with me or not.

I agree defeating the Kaido should come from a dog pile effort of the supernova. With Luffy finishing the job.

Kaido was still strong enough to defeat Luffy with a single attack, and fast enough that Luffy couldn't react.

Also Luffy struggled against Doflamingo and Kaido... from a few conversations, it was clear Kaido and Big Mom are on a whole different level from them.

If Luffy is able to fight Kaido now, he didn't just learned Hyo, but got much stronger than before.

My original statement was Luffy was strong enough to fight a yonko as he had the firepower and tools. I've said multiple times fighting a yonko and defeating are two completely different things. That's why I said to me it seems like he needs more than just advanced haki to be successful against Kaido.

Luffy stated he feels with advanced haki he can damage Kaido. And going by him attempting to block O'Lin in Udon its insinuating this will be his defense from getting one shot again. If these tools alone are what make him able to defeat a yonko then these are tools he already could use subconsciously. That still falls within my statement he had the tools and firepower. He can get stronger I'm not saying he can't I'm saying he had the tools and firepower the entire time if advance haki is somehow the answer.

Luffy struggling against Doffy is kind of irrelevant now I mean I 100% understand what you are getting at. But Luffy also lost to Caesar even though he was clearly stronger, took damage from Hody, etc struggling to overcome is a theme of Luffy used much more often than not. Doffy was walled by gear 4th all he could do was survive against it.

 

[hokageji]

Zoro never hit his limits in NW, not even close. He was as strong as he is now back on FI.

Zoro's first limit was Daz, he didnt grow until then.

I want to disagree but you are right. Daz Bones would've been a limit pre haki. But even then, he overcame that limit and exceeded it. Then was Kaku where again he grew stronger in the fight. He hasn't been pushed since timeskip but this arc will show us his skills.

 

[nik87]

I want to disagree but you are right. Daz Bones would've been a limit pre haki. But even then, he overcame that limit and exceeded it. Then was Kaku where again he grew stronger in the fight. He hasn't been pushed since timeskip but this arc will show us his skills.

Yeah, however, both Daz and Kaku became low diff fights once his limit increased and both ended with the very next attack directed towards them.
Zoro went on to fight Marines after Kaku and wasnt even in a bad shape because he barely took any serious damage while against Daz he was in bad shape due to direct hits.

 

[thedude]

Yeah, however, both Daz and Kaku became low diff fights once his limit increased and both ended with the very next attack directed towards them.
Zoro went on to fight Marines after Kaku and wasnt even in a bad shape because he barely took any serious damage while against Daz he was in bad shape due to direct hits.

"once he got stronger in the fight, the fight was low difficulty" is such a bizarre statement. He was near death fighting Daz. That he ended the fight with a single slash doesn't make the fight low difficulty. I can turn every Luffy fight into low difficulty by that bizarre logic.

 

[nik87]

"once he got stronger in the fight, the fight was low difficulty" is such a bizarre statement. He was near death fighting Daz. That he ended the fight with a single slash doesn't make the fight low difficulty. I can turn every Luffy fight into low difficulty by that bizarre logic.

How would Daz end if Zoro had the ability to cut steel from the start? In one second.
How would Kaku end if Zoro pulled Asura from the very start? In one second.
How would Lucci end if Luffy pulled G2/G3 from the start? In one second. Oh wait...

 

[thedude]

How would Daz end if Zoro had the ability to cut steel from the start? In one second.
How would Kaku end if Zoro pulled Asura from the very start? In one second.
How would Lucci end if Luffy pulled G2/G3 from the start? In one second. Oh wait...

That's not the fight though. The fight is the fight that was drawn, the one where Zoro did not defeat them low difficulty at all. It's such a dumb argument.

 

[nik87]

That's not the fight though. The fight is the fight that was drawn, the one where Zoro did not defeat them low difficulty at all. It's such a dumb argument.

It is not dumb at all if you actually read what I wrote in the first place...

 

[redhairSH]

I think Jinbei is more powerful atm, but by the end of the arc, Zoro for sure and maybe Sanji as well, will surpass him. The straw hats tend to grow more powerful after every major battle, and unlike jinbei, who is in his late 40s, Zoro and Sanji are both in their early 20s, and neither has really had a real battle to show their improvements post timeskip, like they each had against CP9, they’ve always had either short skirmishes or fights that don’t require them to go all out. We haven’t seen Zoro use his new blade with armament haki and asura. We haven’t seen Sanji use his raid suit with Diable Jamie and armament haki. Plus, Zoros specialty is armament, so his next level of that is turning his blades black, and Sanjis specialty is observation, so his next level is katakuri style future seeing. They’ve each only just learned haki in the last 2 years, where we know Jinbei was good enough with haki over 4 years ago to take on logia ace. Zoro and Sanji just seem to have more room for growth

 

[XXGenesis]

How would Daz end if Zoro had the ability to cut steel from the start? In one second.
How would Kaku end if Zoro pulled Asura from the very start? In one second.
How would Lucci end if Luffy pulled G2/G3 from the start? In one second. Oh wait...

All of the SH big fights are high diff because they overcome a threshold...

With Daz, as a Swordsman Zoro needed Haki, to hurt him. As to why he was damaged so much..

Vs Kaku..Kaku was a good swordsman. & his DF started to own Zoro..Ashura was the technique he needed to create to overcome Kaku's attack & Defense.

Aside from Fujitora, Zoro has been low diff-mid diff everything.

 

[Freid]

Yep, for the sake of consistency, I'm sure Zoro will remain second in the crew. The order of strength in the crew is usually obvious by the strength of their opponents and I don't think we'll ever get an arc where Zoro doesn't fight the second strongest. So even if Jimbei may be stronger right now, I think it'll be very temporary.

 

[nik87]

All of the SH big fights are high diff because they overcome a threshold...
With Daz, as a Swordsman Zoro needed Haki, to hurt him. As to why he was damaged so much..
Vs Kaku..Kaku was a good swordsman. & his DF started to own Zoro..Ashura was the technique he needed to create to overcome Kaku's attack & Defense.
Aside from Fujitora, Zoro has been low diff-mid diff everything.

As I stated in my original post - once Zoro increases his limit the fights become low diffs and that remains the truth.
As soon as Zoro became able to cut steel, Daz was neg diffed effortlessly, one sword style was more than enough.
Kaku was a decently strong fighter and had 4 attack sources while Zoro had 3 and was slowly edging him out because of that but as soon as Zoro pulled 9 attack sources, Kaku became helpless. Asura wasnt needed to cut Kaku, it was needed to overwhelm his Yontoryu style.

To keep up with Zoro, several things are required or the fight ends instantly. A weapon is needed to keep the swords at bay.
If there is no weapon then a DF ability that makes your body uncuttable, like mr1 or ability like Tekkai which offers protection to some degree.
If there is no weapon and no uncuttable body, then comes in a DF that allows you to be cut but not damaged, like Pica.
Without any of those, Oda simply wont draw such a fight as it becomes extremely easy and unsatisfying.

 

[HereNThere]

What should Magellan's proper power level be?

Pre Time Skip, I can see why he'd be able to keep folks in line, but it seems like he'd have to really be High YC level at least to keep most of the current characters at bay. Same with the Awakened Zoans under Sadi's control.

I have no idea how they managed to keep folks like Crocodile and the Blackbeards Pirates under control when we see what Luffy and Kidd are capable of while handicapped by Sea Stone. Their physical strength should've still been a rather serious issue to deal with.

 

[nik87]

What should Magellan's proper power level be?

Scaled to post-TS he should be somewhere between YC1 and Admirals.
He is particularly effective in ID due to closed space and his poisonous breath which shouldnt be as effective in the open.

 

[XXGenesis]

Ok. Baselese logic imo. His fights are low diff after he's pounded and finds a way out, as a story requires for a main character....ok
Your entitled to those thoughts.
You really like Zoro a lot. To where you dont think straight, or giving the character senseless hype.

The point of thise fights are growth, but you are galvanizing its final moments as Zoro now has a low diff fight....The context to get to that point cannot be ignored. We don't know what Oda will do with his manga.

 

[M3J]

What should Magellan's proper power level be?

Pre Time Skip, I can see why he'd be able to keep folks in line, but it seems like he'd have to really be High YC level at least to keep most of the current characters at bay. Same with the Awakened Zoans under Sadi's control.

I have no idea how they managed to keep folks like Crocodile and the Blackbeards Pirates under control when we see what Luffy and Kidd are capable of while handicapped by Sea Stone. Their physical strength should've still been a rather serious issue to deal with.

Crocodile and the Blackbeard pirates were likely under control because the seastone handcuffs weren't watered down like they were for the Wano prisoners as the goal was also to get them to do work.

Magellan was probably pre-New World level, unless he had haki. He seemed dangerous only for those without haki, which probably also included devil fruit users as the seastone would make it harder for them to use it.