One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

Yes, but priest more than Kakaturi. He wasn't expecting him and still able to dodge it especially FS too. That still big feat on Sanji.

Still they have guns and weapon projectiles. You can't say whether trick powers or not, they should expect projectiles coming their way during brawl with them.

He didn't know who'd attack, if I recall correctly, but he did know there'd be an attack somewhere. Dodging FS isn't impressive at all because acting upon FS actually changes the outcome that the user can't see. It's not a feat. Luffy was able to do the same, and Rayleigh did as well.

How does Apoo's powers work?

 

[XXGenesis]

We dont Know how Appo's DF ability works..but its evidently haxx..as seen as of last chapter..& back in Shabpody when he actually hit Kizaru, even if it had no effect during to hin being a logia..

His Body seems to become instruments. And gives off different effects of damage..Blunt, Explosive & Cutting...probably more..

 

[King Moe]

He didn't know who'd attack, if I recall correctly, but he did know there'd be an attack somewhere. Dodging FS isn't impressive at all because acting upon FS actually changes the outcome that the user can't see. It's not a feat. Luffy was able to do the same, and Rayleigh did as well.

How does Apoo's powers work?

He did, but never thought YC would be one to try it or be multiple attacks from around. Still a feat that someone like Katakuri couldn't outpredict Sanji in trying to snipe him and fail. I doubt Katakuri didn't see outcome he didn't hit him otherwise he wouldn't have try to kill him if he knew he would dodge his attack, so it must mean Sanji had more skills to outpredict him same way Luffy did to him unable see future he thought he saw. Luffy took awhile before he understand how to get passed him, it wasn't instant, M3J. It is a feat and big one since he Katakuri is regarded a lot on his FS.

You asking deep detail or how go about predicting his attacks for others to get by?

 

[DioXIII]

We dont Know how Appo's DF ability works..but its evidently haxx..as seen as of last chapter..& back in Shabpody when he actually hit Kizaru, even if it had no effect during to hin being a logia..

His Body seems to become instruments. And gives off different effects of damage..Blunt, Explosive & Cutting...probably more..

No visible trajectory of attack either and they were still in his range. In a way it's more unfair than the Ope Ope no mi. You can see the range of the Ope Ope no mi's effect from the size of ROOM and you can see the attack coming as they sync with Law's sword swing. Doffy and Smoker could block attacks with Haki. Law swings sword = attack is coming (generally).

With Apoo's fruit, it seems that neither Luffy or Zoro could perceive the attack or it's trajectory (if it even has one). Before Apoo did his explosion attack against Luffy, Luffy was warned by Zoro that another attack was coming and he stared at Apoo, trying to see if he could avoid or block it. Couldn't see anything and got hit by it. This the same Luffy with future sight and good haki overall, and he couldn't defend it at all.

If I had to guess, the attacks ride the soundwave from Apoo's instrument. When you hear the cymbal or drum, you get hit. My other guess would be that his pre-fight music (piano teeth, saxaphone etc) "marks" you. After that it's cause and effect - hit cymbal = get cut, no trajectory at all. Either is a terrifying ability, both are imperceivable attacks that gives no information how to avoid other than "take out the musical man before his plays an instrument".

 

[M3J]

Katakuri cannot see the new outcome. What he saw was Sanji dodging the priest's bullet, that version didn't have Katakuri attacking Sanji. Thinking about it, it was dumb of Katakuri to not expect Sanji to dodge that, if he could dodge the priest. Also, this is something that Satoru or whoever could do back in Skypia, as well as one of the Hancock sisters.

Hell, wasn't Katakuri calm when he told Luffy that he'd run out of haki? He didn't see Luffy releasing it so he wouldn't lose his ability to move, which shouldn't have been hard for Katakuri to Future Sight. And when I brought up Luffy and Rayleigh, I was talking about before Wano. Hell, before Punk Hazard, even.

Methinks at least trying to predict Apoo's attacks, if not how it actually works.

 

[Fox666]

Katakuri cannot see the new outcome. What he saw was Sanji dodging the priest's bullet, that version didn't have Katakuri attacking Sanji. Thinking about it, it was dumb of Katakuri to not expect Sanji to dodge that, if he could dodge the priest. Also, this is something that Satoru or whoever could do back in Skypia, as well as one of the Hancock sisters.

CoO requires focus. Perhaps Sanji dodged it so easily because he was aware of the plan to assassinate him.

 

[thedude]

Katakuri was hitting where he saw Sanji dodging in his future vision, he was reacting to his own vision. Sanji reacted to that as well. It was a good feat of CoO, the best non-Luffy version for the SH's. Usop's was also good, but his was more "seeing what can't be seen" type of CoO.

(why is this thread hidden??)

 

[nik87]

Katakuri was hitting where he saw Sanji dodging in his future vision, he was reacting to his own vision. Sanji reacted to that as well. It was a good feat of CoO, the best non-Luffy version for the SH's. Usop's was also good, but his was more "seeing what can't be seen" type of CoO.
(why is this thread hidden??)

Katakuri shot where Sanji was at, not where Sanji would be. Basic CoO feat...

 

[M3J]

CoO requires focus. Perhaps Sanji dodged it so easily because he was aware of the plan to assassinate him.

That's basically what I'm trying to say, ability to react like CoO user can see the future doesn't seem to be specific to Future Sight. We have multiple instances of characters being able to predict attacks using CoO, so the concept of Future Sight is kind of weird.

 

[thedude]

That's basically what I'm trying to say, ability to react like CoO user can see the future doesn't seem to be specific to Future Sight. We have multiple instances of characters being able to predict attacks using CoO, so the concept of Future Sight is kind of weird.

I think normal haki senses intent, like how luffy could fool Enel by making his mind go blank. FS can actually see a short distance in the future.

It's all muddled though. I'd say it's just "FS Is the strongest version of it" and not worry too much.

 

[M3J]

That makes more sense, especially since it's easier to dodge intent and presence (gun being drawn and aimed at Luffy). For some reason though, I feel like FS is Stage 1 or Stage 2 of CoO.

 

[ZoWo]

When Zoro thought about fighting Kaidou, I thought that to meant Kaidou and his crew, not just Kaidou alone.

He s already fighting Kaido s crew lmao.
"actually fight Kaido" where the fek u saw kaido s crew

--- Double Post Merged, May 27, 2020, Original Post Date: May 27, 2020 ---

As Zoro is rn he doesn't stand a chance against neither King or Kaido , the only option is that he fights them alongside someone else

Zoro wont 2v1 another swordsman sorry.Zoro will beat king 1v1.
Proof he doenst stand a chance???He had enma training and he still has to show asura.

 

[aaannnnannan]

--- Double Post Merged, May 27, 2020, Original Post Date: May 27, 2020 ---

Zoro wont 2v1 another swordsman sorry.Zoro will beat king 1v1.
Proof he doenst stand a chance???He had enma training and he still has to show asura.
[/QUOTE]

We are talking about the First Commander of the strongest yonko, if you say that Zoro can beat him as he is now you are saying that he is first commander level which is bullshit . As swords skills Zoro sure is better , but that doesn't mean a lot , King can fly and nocked down all of Big Mom ship with just one kick . Enma is a stronger sword than Shusui , but everybody is making it sound like he got an immense upgrade with that . As Zoro is now he is equal or weaker than Queen.

 

[nik87]

--- Double Post Merged, May 27, 2020, Original Post Date: May 27, 2020 ---

Zoro wont 2v1 another swordsman sorry.Zoro will beat king 1v1.
Proof he doenst stand a chance???He had enma training and he still has to show asura.

We are talking about the First Commander of the strongest yonko, if you say that Zoro can beat him as he is now you are saying that he is first commander level which is bullshit . As swords skills Zoro sure is better , but that doesn't mean a lot , King can fly and nocked down all of Big Mom ship with just one kick . Enma is a stronger sword than Shusui , but everybody is making it sound like he got an immense upgrade with that . As Zoro is now he is equal or weaker than Queen.
[/QUOTE]
The best part of you post is the Zoro being Queen's lvl is perfectly aceptable but being above King is complete bullshit.
This is getting better and better, lol. Zoro is taking on Kaido in this arc, he may not fight any YC at all.

 

[aaannnnannan]

We are talking about the First Commander of the strongest yonko, if you say that Zoro can beat him as he is now you are saying that he is first commander level which is bullshit . As swords skills Zoro sure is better , but that doesn't mean a lot , King can fly and nocked down all of Big Mom ship with just one kick . Enma is a stronger sword than Shusui , but everybody is making it sound like he got an immense upgrade with that . As Zoro is now he is equal or weaker than Queen.

The best part of you post is the Zoro being Queen's lvl is perfectly aceptable but being above King is complete bullshit.
This is getting better and better, lol. Zoro is taking on Kaido in this arc, he may not fight any YC at all.
[/QUOTE]

King is far stronger than Queen , and I too believe that he will fight Kaido , but surely not alone . I understand that you are a huge Zoro fan , but still saying that he is stronger than King has really no sense. You are all joking on the beast pirates just because Zoro is a fan favorite , I hope that he doesn't fight King just to see a Marco vs King and that he goes straight to the point to fight Kaido with Luffy,Law Kidd and others.

 

[nik87]

King is far stronger than Queen , and I too believe that he will fight Kaido , but surely not alone . I understand that you are a huge Zoro fan , but still saying that he is stronger than King has really no sense. You are all joking on the beast pirates just because Zoro is a fan favorite , I hope that he doesn't fight King just to see a Marco vs King and that he goes straight to the point to fight Kaido with Luffy,Law Kidd and others.

I am not underestimating Beast Pirates and not King especially. King is a very troublesome opponent who would probably beat any other member of the Alliance aside from Zoro and that is one of the reasons why I think Zoro needs to fight him - because no one else in Wano can.
We are already in the end-game phase where Strawhats are taking not just one Yonko crew but two Yonko crews at the same time.

There is no time for Zoro to gradually improve and he doesnt need to - he doesnt use G4 which has a time limit. He is one of the main combatants that need to take care of the two Emperors and Zoro has too much build-up with Kaido not to participate so to be able to fight Kaido he cannot be stopped by someone like King, he cant go into extreme difficulty against him either because in such state he wouldnt be able to fight Kaido and Zoro has only once gone into extreme difficulty - in Alabasta.

I think Marco isnt coming and even if he comes, he doesnt fight with a weapon so he would be testing the limits of how much he can regenerate which isnt really a wise move against a swordsman. Zoro being stronger than King doesn't mean that King cant offer him a very good fight, on the contrary, he could end up pressuring Zoro with some fire abilities which would prevent Zoro from dominating the fight until he deals with fire...

 

[Fox666]

Bounties are not the end all be all and can change to reflect someone's growth in power. Sanji having a 330k bounty doesn't mean he can't match up to a Billion Bounty All Star when the time comes. We've seen this time and time and time again in this series. Plus, unlike previous arcs, we will now have legitimate excuses as to why they can eventually take on these threats. Sanji has a Raid Suit which we haven't seen him use to it's upper limit. Nevermind any other potential Diable Jambe technique he hasn't popped out yet. It's the same argument for Zoro while we're at it. They have the tools, they just need to face a threat that will allow them achieve new levels of mastery with them.

Bounties don't necessarily reflect strength.

However, judging from their brief encounter with Apoo, I find it hard to believe Zoro could fight an All-Star. Even Luffy (without Gear 4) would not be able to win, despite his training in Udon.

 

[M3J]

Bounties don't necessarily reflect strength.

However, judging from their brief encounter with Apoo, I find it hard to believe Zoro could fight an All-Star. Even Luffy (without Gear 4) would not be able to win, despite his training in Udon.

I hate this comparison game. Apoo may give the trio trouble, but that doesn't mean they're incapable of going up against All-Stars or beating Apoo. Lucci rocked Luffy and Zoro's shit, but Luffy was able to beat Blueno, and Zoro was able to beat Kaku even if he'd have lost to Lucci. Take their different abilities into account. Sanji would be weaker than Luffy and still fare better against Apoo just because he's more strategic and quicker to understand things.

It's not a blight on any of them unless the character is beyond weak.

 

[HereNThere]

Bounties don't necessarily reflect strength.

However, judging from their brief encounter with Apoo, I find it hard to believe Zoro could fight an All-Star. Even Luffy (without Gear 4) would not be able to win, despite his training in Udon.

Exactly. Sanji having a lower bounty doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to fight those with bounties 3 times higher than their current ones. Same with Zoro.

 

[Fox666]

I hate this comparison game. Apoo may give the trio trouble, but that doesn't mean they're incapable of going up against All-Stars or beating Apoo. Lucci rocked Luffy and Zoro's shit, but Luffy was able to beat Blueno, and Zoro was able to beat Kaku even if he'd have lost to Lucci. Take their different abilities into account. Sanji would be weaker than Luffy and still fare better against Apoo just because he's more strategic and quicker to understand things.

It's not a blight on any of them unless the character is beyond weak.

I don't get the analogy with Lucci. He is a lot stronger than Blueno and Kaku. And isn't Blueno the one with the weird ability?