One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[HereNThere]

I've hit my quota for this particular point of topic this year, so I'll just say this and leave it at that.

Spoiler: Title Talk

So you really believe that Oda gives titles left and right and that they don't actually mean what they imply? Yeah, unless it's revealed that Mihawk is mortally ill Imma stick with Mihawk > Shanks. Sorry. It's the simplest and most logical way to look at it.

What I mean is that titles aren't the end all be all.

If they were, that'd mean Whitebeard was stronger than Roger and, by extension, Garp back in his Prime because of he had the title of World's Strongest Man. Yet, as we saw, Pre Pirate King Roger was presented as Whitebeard's equal during Oden's flashback.

With what we've been presented with, we have info that implies Shanks and Mihawk are more than likely peers of the same level, despite one holding a title.

Dragon is most likely top 10 given his role in the story. Very least, he's someone with incredible ambition given his goal. I tend to forget about the Revolutionaries though, so I rarely think about his strength.

 

[hokageji]

Dragon's gotta be right there with the Yonkos, just for the hype of it.

 

[roggie]

You didnt make it simpler but much more complicated because you arent sticking to the author's words.

Fair enough.

"Land, sea or air, this pirate is said to be the strongest creature." Doesnt get clearer than that.

I recollect this as author's words right? (I hope you don't call it some translation divergence since the argument would also invalidate all of your previous points anyway)

"...this pirate IS SAID to be..." you got it, right? Doesnt get clearer than that.....
Why would Oda phrase it that way? Why he didn't simply put "this pirate is the strongest creature" ?

 

[Ramen]

I think he has to be. He's the leader of the revolutionaries, the worlds most wanted man. Under his command you have monsters like Sabo (who clearly uses similar fighting techniques I'm sure, his dragon claw must be something Dragon taught him) who casually destroy YC's like Burgess. He's also the son of Garp, a former top 5 most likely, and the father of Luffy, the guy who will end the story as #1 strongest.
I can't see any way Dragon isn't one of the top 10 strongest, and maybe even top 5, but we just have so little information to put him at any position.

Yea that makes sense.

And then she fought him all night long, and neither had injuries. So Kaido can't be #1 strongest the way some people act, and then BM is actually weak. It just isn't possible.

I give the slight edge to Kaido but BM is right there with him.

If Buggy was a Yonko, the WG would immediately crush him. Meanwhile, they need months of planning to defeat a near death old Yonko, and can only do it with 100% perfect conditions on their side. But yeah...Buggy could become a Yonko lol.

This what I'm saying. Nik is trying so hard to downplay it's not even funny at this point. But the WG is scared out of their minds to go to Wani because 2 Yonko are there lmao.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2020 ---

Yasopp is the 3rd strongest character in the series. He's the WGS.

 

[Shasha23]

I guess if the entire Vinsmoke family attacks Luffy and wins, it would mean Judge is stronger than Luffy. Since you know... Judge created the Vinsmokes sibblings.
Yeah, that doesn't make any sense buddy.

You are missing the point, Ichiji and the others are actual people while the Germa 66 soldiers aren't real humans, they are weapons created by Judge.
Why do you think its wrong for Judge to use his own weapons in a fight and think its unfair?

 

[nik87]

I recollect this as author's words right? (I hope you don't call it some translation divergence since the argument would also invalidate all of your previous points anyway)

"...this pirate IS SAID to be..." you got it, right? Doesnt get clearer than that.....
Why would Oda phrase it that way? Why he didn't simply put "this pirate is the strongest creature" ?

I get it, you think his hype is fake because "... is said..." and thus he isnt nr1 in the verse.
Who has anywhere close the stats to him?

SBS question:
Fan: Is my mother stronger than Akainu?
Oda: Mother is the strongest, she is even stronger than Kaido.

Clear as day, if you ask me.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2020 ---

Nik is trying so hard to downplay

What am I trying to downplay?

 

[Ramen]

I get it, you think his hype is fake because "... is said..." and thus he isnt nr1 in the verse.
Who has anywhere close the stats to him?

SBS question:
Fan: Is my mother stronger than Akainu?
Oda: Mother is the strongest, she is even stronger than Kaido.

Clear as day, if you ask me.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2020 ---

What am I trying to downplay?

The Yonko as a title.

 

[nik87]

The Yonko as a title.

No, I have never done that nor do I need to.
Yonko title is given to 4 individuals who command the greatest organizations within the pirate faction.
As soon as fake news of Luffy commanding everything in WCI he was immediately considered a Yonko.
No individual by himself can be a Yonko, no matter how strong he is. That is not what a Yonko represents.
Saying that Mihawk is stronger than several Yonkos individually is not downplaying those Yonkos.

 

[Ramen]

No, I have never done that nor do I need to.
Yonko title is given to 4 individuals who command the greatest organizations within the pirate faction.
As soon as fake news of Luffy commanding everything in WCI he was immediately considered a Yonko.
No individual by himself can be a Yonko, no matter how strong he is. That is not what a Yonko represents.
Saying that Mihawk is stronger than several Yonkos individually is not downplaying those Yonkos.

No it's not. Yonkos are the strongest pirates. Given how strong the crews are and the captain is tiers above anyone in his own crew. Luffy was considered one as a hype tool. He obviously isn't in the league of the acutal Yonko given he ran away from BM and was one shot by Kaido.

Your point about Buggy becoming one is purely wrong. Read thedude's comment.


You saying Mihawk the second strongest character purely based on a title is wrong. You measure a character based on feats and hype. Characters outclass Mihawk in both of those so your point is mute. If Oda really wanted Mihawk to be that strong, he would give him more screentime.

Titles aren't the end all be all. That is confirmed in the series.

 

[nik87]

No it's not. Yonkos are the strongest pirates. Given how strong the crews are and the captain is tiers above anyone in his own crew. Luffy was considered one as a hype tool. He obviously isn't in the league of the acutal Yonko given he ran away from BM and was one shot by Kaido.
Your point about Buggy becoming one is purely wrong. Read thedude's comment.

You saying Mihawk the second strongest character purely based on a title is wrong. You measure a character based on feats and hype. Characters outclass Mihawk in both of those so your point is mute. If Oda really wanted Mihawk to be that strong, he would give him more screentime.
Titles aren't the end all be all. That is confirmed in the series.

Oh gawd... Think.
Luffy defeats Doffy and gets 5600 men under him which isnt known to the world, nothing happens.
Luffy is said to command Sun Pirates, Firetank Pirates and it is revealed that he has 5600 men under him and what happens?
He is proclaimed a Yonko without his PL changing one bit. His PL didnt change and only the amount of men he commands changed and he is a Yonko.
You have been spoonfed and you still think its individual PL title...

Remove Kaido from captain position of Beast Pirates, place Buggy in his place, Buggy will be a Yonko, 100%.
He would command the exact same amount of men as Kaido does and that amount is a threat to anyone.
I say Mihawk is stronger than two Yonkos which are swordsmen, it is common sense based on the author's information.

You could argue that non-swordsmen are stronger than Mihawk but you cant argue the swordsmen.
It is directly going against what Oda has said but people cant help themselves to place a swordsman above Mihawk...
My point is the same as the author's - Mihawk is stronger than any other swordsman. Tell Oda that his point is moot.
You will get Mihawk's screentime, hold yer panties. If Oda wanted Dragon to be strong he would give him more panel time?
Which title is confirmed to not be "end all be all"? None to my knowledge.

 

[hokageji]

Remove Kaido from captain position of Beast Pirates, place Buggy in his place, Buggy will be a Yonko, 100%.

Remove Whitebeard from the pirate group, they'll still be yonkos, oh wait....

 

[nik87]

Remove Whitebeard from the pirate group, they'll still be yonkos, oh wait....

Wasnt Marco a candidate for a Yonko? lol
The only reason he isnt proclaimed one is because they were crushed by Blackbeard Pirates.

 

[Ramen]

Remove Whitebeard from the pirate group, they'll still be yonkos, oh wait....

I was just going to respond using this. He can keep denying all he wants.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2020 ---

Wasnt Marco a candidate for a Yonko? lol

No he wasn't.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2020 ---

You will get Mihawk's screentime, hold yer panties. If Oda wanted Dragon to be strong he would give him more panel time?

But no one is calling Dragon the 2nd strongest charcater lol.

My point is the same as the author's - Mihawk is stronger than any other swordsman. Tell Oda that his point is moot.

Anyone who's actually trying to actively be a swordsman. Just because you use a gun doesn't mean you're a gunslinger. There's only 3 people who were confirmed to actually care about the title of WSS. Vista, Zoro and Mihawk. No one else.

Oda is giving us feats that prove Mihawk is below many characters. Take it up with him.

 

[hokageji]

Wasnt Marco a candidate for a Yonko? lol
The only reason he isnt proclaimed one is because they were crushed by Blackbeard Pirates.

I dont mean to counter your argument, its true that Yonko's are considered Yonko's because of the pirate group's strength, but the captain's are irreplacable.

Marco was the captain, but the group couldn't sustain without Newgate. Even Perospero said that if Big Mom dies, its the end of the pirate crew as they are. The power levels between a Yonko and Yonko commander are immense. They cannot be compared.

 

[Ramen]

As far as I'm concerned, in regards to titles, Admirals and Yonko are stronger than Mihawk.

In regards to feats and hype, they also outclass Mihawk. Simple.

 

[hokageji]

And yea, Big Mom is heavily underestimated. She's a giant with Ace, Enel and a strong swordsmen level strengths in her.... To say she's weak is simple bull...

Look at how she brushed off Kaido's strength... Kaido was like" if you ever come to Wano, i'll kill you"... she was like"i'd like to see you try"...

I think all of them, Newgate, Kaido and Big Mom are near equals in strength.

 

[nik87]

But no one is calling Dragon the 2nd strongest charcater lol.

Imu-sama will be trash level according to your power scaling based on panel time, huh?

Anyone who's actually trying to actively be a swordsman. Just because you use a gun doesn't mean you're a gunslinger. There's only 3 people who were confirmed to actually care about the title of WSS. Vista, Zoro and Mihawk. No one else.
Oda is giving us feats that prove Mihawk is below many characters. Take it up with him.

Dont bring in a headcanon. Actively trying or not to be a swordsman is fandom fabrication which author himself never touched upon. End of story.
Yeah and when he gives feats to Mihawk which prove him above all others you too will have to take it up with him just because you didnt believe his word.

I dont mean to counter your argument, its true that Yonko's are considered Yonko's because of the pirate group's strength, but the captain's are irreplacable.

Marco was the captain, but the group couldn't sustain without Newgate. Even Perospero said that if Big Mom dies, its the end of the pirate crew as they are. The power levels between a Yonko and Yonko commander are immense. They cannot be compared.

Replace Shanks with Mihawk and RHP becomes an even greater force. Nothing changed except that Mihawk becomes a Yonko without his PL changing...
Whitebeard Pirates went through 2 crushing defeats - Marineford and Payback war. After that, they werent strong enough to be Yonko threat.
Blackbeard pirates PL didnt change due to Payback war, they proved to be a threat to crush a Yonko crew.

To say she's weak is simple bull...

Who said that BM is weak? Saying that Mihawk is stronger than BM is by no means saying that BM is weak.

No he wasn't.

Blackbeard as frontrunner and Marco in the same breath as other Emperors.
Blackebard's PL didnt change and he became a Yonko. Not because he spanked Marco, no, that's not an achievement that promotes you to a Yonko.
It is the achievement of being a threat to crush an entire Yonko crew and not a single individual can do that.

As far as I'm concerned, in regards to titles, Admirals and Yonko are stronger than Mihawk.
In regards to feats and hype, they also outclass Mihawk. Simple.

I wont burst your bubble, just dont complain later if manga confirms what I have been saying all the time.
You will have to thank nobody else but yourself that you went against author's words.

 

[Ramen]

I wont burst your bubble, just dont complain later if manga confirms what I have been saying all the time.
You will have to thank nobody else but yourself that you went against author's words.

You mean you can't burst my bubble.

Not bring in a headcanon. Actively trying or not to be a swordsman is fandom fabrication which author himself never touched upon. End of story.
Yeah and when he gives feats to Mihawk which prove him above all others you too will have to take it up with him just because you didnt believe his word.

Headcanon because it proves you wrong? Sure. WhEn He GiVeS FeAts. Lol others already have better feats. Admirals and Yonko > Mihawk.

Imu-sama will be trash level according to your power scaling based on panel time, huh?

I don't see what this has to do with anything. You can't rank him regardless.


In regards to your photo. They thought Marco WITH the crew might stand a chance. The remaning Yonko themselves (aka just them) could beat him. Marco couldn't 1v1. The other Yonko could. They also never said Marco is considered to be a Yonko candidate.

 

[hokageji]

As far as I'm concerned, in regards to titles, Admirals and Yonko are stronger than Mihawk.

In regards to feats and hype, they also outclass Mihawk. Simple.

I think Mihawk acknowledged this too.... When whitebeard arrived, he said he wanted to "measure the true distance between us".... IF Mihawk was at the same level of Whitebeard or higher, this statement would be irrelevant.

 

[Ramen]

Blackbeard pirates PL didnt change due to Payback war, they proved to be a threat to crush a Yonko crew.

No because he ate 2 DF's. Beating the remnants didn't mean anything. Your photo literally says this.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2020 ---

I think Mihawk acknowledged this too.... When whitebeard arrived, he said he wanted to "measure the true distance between us".... IF Mihawk was at the same level of Whitebeard or higher, this statement would be irrelevant.

Exactly. Yonko > Mihawk