One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[goldb]

They aren't actually 'allies' to the core though as Warlords are like 'pirates for hire' you can team with your enemy while still fearing them. I can't see him beating Aokiji, Akainu, and Kizaru in a straight fight especially feats given to them compare what Mihawk honestly.

That's a fine opinion to have and I don't think many could disagree with that, but to play devil's advocate here, there's not been any feats shown by Mihawk (as you've noted) to say that he can't hold his own against an admiral either. The closest we've seen any comparative display is him clashing with Vista, who then came up against Akainu along with Marco and was shown unscathed. But I'd be grasping at straws there.

We can't disprove either side of that argument when it comes to Mihawk, based on current information.

 

[M3J]

Manga has shown us what? Swordsmen without DF's fighting? So what? Manga never defined "pure swordsmanship" as a special type of fight.
It has also shown un swordsmen with DF's fighting as well as the mix of those two. It isnt a manga thing, it is a fandom fabrication.
So what was the problem? There is no problem from what I see except you pushing a term which doesnt exist and is of no relevance.

*sigh*

What's not clicking? Sword fighting meaning sword fighting, no hand-to-hand combat or other things? I never mentioned devil fruits playing a part in swordsmanship, you did. Same concept as just hand-to-hand fighting, there's no weapon involved, just body parts.

Shanks can overall be superior to Mihawk even if he is inferior in swordsmanship.

 

[nik87]

Shanks can overall be superior to Mihawk even if he is inferior in swordsmanship.

How? What does he have that surpasses a sword?

 

[jaymizzo]

How is Luffy meant to be PK without beating or fighting anyone? PK is a measure of strength at this point. You can't get to Raftel without at least defeating a few challengers on the way.

Hell Roger had skirmishes and there weren't even many contenders for Raftel at the time. Its not a place you can just get to by simply sailing.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2020 ---

How? What does he have that surpasses a sword?

A hand. A leg. Access to other weapons. Significantly better Haki.

I mean, being a weaker swordsman does not translate to being a weaker boxer etc.

Mihawk could beat Shanks in a swordfight sure (we know their fights aren't one sided, nor do we know the results), but open up the rules and Mihawk could get swatted.

 

[M3J]

How is Pirate King a measure of strength if the only, or main, qualification seems to be getting to Raftel? It's possible to get to Raftel without fighting anyone strong, at the very least.

And wasn't Roger looking for skirmishes? And the first one to want to go to Raftel? Until he made the decision, he and the other pirates were just fighting each other and pirating for the lulz.

 

[nik87]

Its not a place you can just get to by simply sailing.

It is exactly that if you knew where it is. In theory you dont have to fight anyone, just have to steal their poneglyph copies, Roger showed us that.
Luffy is going to beat Emperors but that doesnt place him above them on a powerscales, considering that he is doing it with a team.

A hand. A leg. Access to other weapons. Significantly better Haki.
I mean, being a weaker swordsman does not translate to being a weaker boxer etc.
Mihawk could beat Shanks in a swordfight sure (we know their fights aren't one sided, nor do we know the results), but open up the rules and Mihawk could get swatted.

And we are back to headcanon...
His sword clad in haki > his limbs clad in haki. Period.
Good luck with boxing against a swordsman.

There are no rules lmao, stop making them when Oda didnt make them.
Anything that Shanks has at disposal has never been prohibited by Oda.
No matter what he uses from his arsenal, if he beats Mihawk, he is the WSS. He isnt tho.

 

[Aki1991]

How? What does he have that surpasses a sword?

Superior Haki and will power for example? Even though I can imagine Mihawk to be as strong or even stronger. Time will tell.

 

[Shasha23]

Superior Haki and will power for example? Even though I can imagine Mihawk to be as strong or even stronger. Time will tell.

He created a blackblade something the other guy cant do, which means his haki is stronger

 

[jaymizzo]

How is Pirate King a measure of strength if the only, or main, qualification seems to be getting to Raftel? It's possible to get to Raftel without fighting anyone strong, at the very least.

And wasn't Roger looking for skirmishes? And the first one to want to go to Raftel? Until he made the decision, he and the other pirates were just fighting each other and pirating for the lulz.

That's the point im making, Roger even being the first to get to Raftel, didn't have an easy time doing so, he skirmished the Marines but as we saw with BM, he doesn't fight everyone.

With Luffy, right now, there are way too many contenders. Kaido alone has subordinates strong enough to challenge Luffy and had the same dream but were too weak to challenge the serious PK contenders (Yonkou lvl fighters).

You can't just go to Raftel, there is challenge to get there.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2020 ---

And we are back to headcanon...
His sword clad in haki > his limbs clad in haki. Period.
Good luck with boxing against a swordsman.

There are no rules lmao, stop making them when Oda didnt make them.
Anything that Shanks has at disposal has never been prohibited by Oda.
No matter what he uses from his arsenal, if he beats Mihawk, he is the WSS. He isnt tho.

And were back to Swords>Everything.

Were also back to pointing out that the top tiers mostly are unarmed.

A test of a swordsmans skill is how well they can use a sword. The rules are pretty established when its a swordfight.

Sure, il start throwing elbows in a boxing match.

 

[nik87]

Were also back to pointing out that the top tiers mostly are unarmed.

Look again.

A test of a swordsmans skill is how well they can use a sword. The rules are pretty established when its a swordfight.

Quote Oda on this. Or it is your fabrication?

 

[jaymizzo]

Look again.

Quote Oda on this. Or it is your fabrication?

Where did I involve Oda in my statement? That's simply how swordsmanship is measured. If you disagree, then google what is swordsmanship.

You imply that Swords>Everything in the manga, yet when Oda shows swords not winning you say plot.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Swordsman topic always ends up in hot debate lol
Anyway, if mihawk is final enemy for zoro, then he should be at least YC1 or admiral. Zoro is the first mate, so no way he is below YC1

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2020 ---

He created a blackblade something the other guy cant do, which means his haki is stronger

This. Even oden cannot do that and he almost one shot kaido

 

[nik87]

That's simply how swordsmanship is measured.

Oda isnt measuring anything. The one who wins is a stronger swordsman.

You imply that Swords>Everything in the manga, yet when Oda shows swords not winning you say plot.

Except that swords are winning and yes, the plot is a real thing if you want to keep MC alive. It's hilarious to even doubt it at this point.

if mihawk is final enemy for zoro, then he should be at least YC1 or admiral. Zoro is the first mate, so no way he is below YC1

I dont think that Zoro's power is limited by being whatever his function is in the crew. No other crew had a WSS that wasnt a captain.
There are 2 swordsmen among Admirals and there are 2 swordsmen among Yonkos. Mihawk is above all 4 of them.

 

[M3J]

That's the point im making, Roger even being the first to get to Raftel, didn't have an easy time doing so, he skirmished the Marines but as we saw with BM, he doesn't fight everyone.

With Luffy, right now, there are way too many contenders. Kaido alone has subordinates strong enough to challenge Luffy and had the same dream but were too weak to challenge the serious PK contenders (Yonkou lvl fighters).

You can't just go to Raftel, there is challenge to get there.

He didn't, but that doesn't discount the possibility that one can get to Raftel without fighting. Roger also often chooses to fight people, at least if he gets riled up, just as Luffy will fight the Emperors because he wants to. Roger probably had enough contenders to deal with as well, even if it's less than Luffy.

You can also find ways to avoid the challenge or run away. LUffy won't, and we all know they'll have to fight at least the three Emperors, but the possibility for anyone else getting to Raftel without fighting is still there. Someone like Katakuri has the potential to do that if he can use Future Sight to sneak in, get Poneglyph rubbings, and get to Raftel while avoiding fights.

 

[King Moe]

That's a fine opinion to have and I don't think many could disagree with that, but to play devil's advocate here, there's not been any feats shown by Mihawk (as you've noted) to say that he can't hold his own against an admiral either. The closest we've seen any comparative display is him clashing with Vista, who then came up against Akainu along with Marco and was shown unscathed. But I'd be grasping at straws there.

We can't disprove either side of that argument when it comes to Mihawk, based on current information.

True, we haven't seen his full power yet, but we can say the same for those like Admirals and Yonko and so far while holding back, they defeated Yonko Commanders with ease in one-two shot fashion while Mihawk didn't do that with chances against Jozu and Vista. He was even stopped by guys like Crocodile who went after Luffy and didn't beat him afterwards. We not disregarding the fact he is strong as he is, but just saying at full power at best, he is more in-between Admiral and YCs. His portrayal even to this date haven't shown he is on that level as Oda shows. We are just saying is all and I used to be someone who used to think Mihawk was 'Yonko lvl' prior given his bout with Shanks, but now revealing he didn't face with Yonko Shanks and was pre-Yonko Shanks when he had two arms, it's hard to state if he really is on that level after that.

Kinda like Moria vs Kaido as not all rivals will stay same level forever and since they haven't fought it years, doesn't mean the other can still compete. Not saying Mihawk is on same level of Moria, but just saying they have similarities of how their past rivalries with future Yonkos doesn't justify they could still be that level even now especially portrayal doesn't help push that line of thinking. Get what I mean?

 

[thedude]

i leave the weekend and it's still just swordboi bs...come on guys, we don't have to take the bait and talk Zoro and Mihawk all day!

 

[The Prince of Darkness]

Who do you think would win and with what level of difficulty between :

- Yonkos(captains only) vs. All Navy(Marineford like)
- Yonkos(with crews) vs. All Navy(with Garp & Sengoku fighting)

Why ?

 

[AmitDS]

While one can in theory become PK by miraculously finding Raftel in verse we all know that Roger didn't do so and Luffy will not do so. Though it's not a specific requirement stated it is a requirement nonetheless that the PK be the strongest pirate. The process to get the poneglyphs needed and, in Luffy's case, the enmities he has as well, definitely involve defeating the strongest pirates and navy soldiers (admirals) so Roger, who tied with WB and Garp, and Luffy who will defeat at least Blackbeard on his own if he doesn't defeat other emperors 1 v 1, both prove that the Pirate King has been and will need to be the strongest pirate or at least one of the strongest pirates tied with others, on the planet. Luffy said it himself, he can't be PK unless he beats the Admirals and Emperors. This statement, though it wasn't necessary, clearly shows us what Oda holds as true and a qualifier for PK. Strength is intertwined with finding Raftel as the qualifier for PK. One needs to be on the level of an Emperor as a pirate to be able to be the PK. So Luffy may not defeat all the Emperors and Admirals 1 v 1 but he will definitely beat one of each to solidify his rank.

If a pirate is not the strongest then his competitors would defeat him before becoming the PK. That's why I find the whole 'oh this fodder can be PK if he finds Raftel by chance so the PK doesn't involve power level' argument really immature, ignorant and contrived. We all know no one can be the PK if they can't fight an emperor or admiral and win or at least draw and defeat and escape all obstacles and those who oppose them on their journey in the new world.

 

[hokageji]

Who do you think would win and with what level of difficulty between :

- Yonkos(captains only) vs. All Navy(Marineford like)
- Yonkos(with crews) vs. All Navy(with Garp & Sengoku fighting)

Why ?

Very interesting question... In the first case, Navy will win, but in the second, its hard to say. Without shichibukai, the argument is teh Pacifistas have to be as strong as them too, and navy can produce higher numbers. SO i'd say Navy still win, assuming none of the shichibukai participate on the yonko's side.

 

[McNuss]

While one can in theory become PK by miraculously finding Raftel in verse we all know that Roger didn't do so and Luffy will not do so.

Actually....

4/5s of Roger's journey to Laugh Tale is luck.

He randomly encountered Oden.
He got the Wano Poneglyph from Oden and the Zou Poneglyph from Inu and Neko without having to lift a finger.
The Fishman Island Road Poneglyph was not hidden.

He only stole the Road Poneglyph from Big Mom.