One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

You make excellent points. And they are damn near irrefutable

but when certain people make comments there are often many layers to the argument that go back 10 - 20 arguments ago.

For instance we have got to go through phases where Mr.1 was considered stronger than Crocodile for the sake of Zoro > Luffy or Pica > Doflamingo for the same reason.

Or even better Kaku being stronger than Lucci.

Well, I assure you I wouldn't have defended those claims had I been here. Crocodile is superior to Mr.1 in every thinkable aspect since he even has cutting attacks, and Lucci's dourikis and mastery of the rokushiki demonstrated by his use of rokuougan makes him superior to any other CP9 (and I'm rooting for him to also be the strongest CP0 now. I love Lucci).

Each time arguements are made for Zoro's sake its often coupled with ridiculous claims. It's why the main arguer of Pica being a YC is a zoro fan.

The arguments are exhausting. This is what I ask myself. " If Sanji was in Zoro's place and the exact same thin happened... would it be discussed to such lengths?"

For example, if Sanji has defeated Pica... But Zoro defeat someone proven stronger... would Pica be discussed as much? The odds are, no. Because the bottom line it proving Zoro is the strongest, which is inaccurate. It goes all the waY up to even arguements that don't even mention Zoro, like Mihwak vs threads.

Mihawk and Zoro are my favorite characters, so I guess I'm technically a swordboi? In any case, this is why I think I'm too new to these subthreads. I just read comments about character's strengths and try my best to rationalize who would win a fight. I'm not familiar with the intent behind those who started each argument but I think all's good as long as my comments remain objective.

Often its mods who let the arguements get out of hand and let forum members resort to insulting other forum members or allowing arguements to go on far past what should be considered acceptable.

It's usually boils down to two forum members causing discourse.

People seeing things differently is healthy for the mind as long as those involved are open to respecting where the other comes from. We should all be chill about this. Although I can understand how if certain topics are brought up over and over again they get tiring.

Luffy, as a rubberman, is weaker to slashes than anyone else because nobody else is stretching while Luffy is.
Make a cut on rubber and stretch it, observe what happens. Pure logic, common sense and laws of physics.
Will Oda make Luffy's limbs be torn off to cement that point in the eyes of the deniers? No, of course not...

if your using real word logic in a fictional manga... thats the issue.

Like claiming Luffy stretching somehow makes his sword injuries worse when there is no proof of this. Lufy's injuries have NEVER gotten bigger when he's stretched in a combat situation. Not a single instance.

I'll be honest: I hadn't even thought about the properties of rubber when stretching after being cut. It makes 100% sense that Luffy would rip himself off if stretching too far after being cut, but after almost 1000 chapters of being cut all over and still keep fighting and stretching at Gear2 speeds, it has never happened, so just like we shouldn't make up feats, we shouldn't make up weaknesses: Luffy doesn't rip on his own after being cut.

 

[nik87]

I'll be honest: I hadn't even thought about the properties of rubber when stretching after being cut. It makes 100% sense that Luffy would rip himself off if stretching too far after being cut, but after almost 1000 chapters of being cut all over and still keep fighting and stretching at Gear2 speeds, it has never happened, so just like we shouldn't make up feats, we shouldn't make up weaknesses: Luffy doesn't rip on his own after being cut.

What is the worst instance of Luffy being cut at his limbs and stretching afterwards?
An instance like injury against Katakuri is irrelevant because it is at the spot which isnt stretching, except when going into Boundman, which he didnt do.

 

[Nie Li]

What is the worst instance of Luffy being cut at his limbs and stretching afterwards?
An instance like injury against Katakuri is irrelevant because it is at the spot which isnt stretching, except when going into Boundman, which he didnt do.

Didn't he get a deep cut in his arm after missing Cracker with a punch?

 

[nik87]

Didn't he get a deep cut in his arm after missing Cracker with a punch?

Yeah, that is probably one and only instance which fits the description, Oda simply doesnt put him into such situations where his stretching parts will be cut.
Even when top tiers cut him, plot armor reduced the damage to 0 and he moves on like not affected at all.
I have to check the Cracker fight to see how much stretching he did after that cut happened.

In the prison library after that fight he was trying to rip his arms off and there was focus on that cut as the critical tearing spot.
However, Oda wont go through with the MC losing an arm. Cuts as rubberman's weakness are undeniable tho.
He himself has confirmed so when Enel pointed it out.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 8, 2020 ---

Because G4 Luffy had some trouble fighting the biscuits in the beginning despite G4 Luffy effortlessly tanking the piercing haki attacks of Doflamingo awakened fruit, while Zoro wasn't able to slice up the cage.

Why is Luffy having trouble equaling to Zoro having trouble?
We have manga confirmation that cuts are far more effective than punches.
Zoro never tried to slice the cage. That is a plot induced stupidity which doesnt affect Zoro's PL.

 

[Nie Li]

Yeah, that is probably one and only instance which fits the description, Oda simply doesnt put him into such situations where his stretching parts will be cut.
Even when top tiers cut him, plot armor reduced the damage to 0 and he moves on like not affected at all.
I have to check the Cracker fight to see how much stretching he did after that cut happened.

In the prison library after that fight he was trying to rip his arms off and there was focus on that cut as the critical tearing spot.
However, Oda wont go through with the MC losing an arm. Cuts as rubberman's weakness are undeniable tho.
He himself has confirmed so when Enel pointed it out.

I remember the prison arc and it's true that he teared himself a bit by stretching, but the amount of stretch he needed to just start tearing was necessarily over how much he's had to stretch during any of his fights (or he would have also started tearing during those fights) and he still did a lot of fighting afterwards without much care, so it's still not really something to take into account unless someone cuts more than half through his arm and that would render anyone's arm useless.

I don't remember other instances of big cuts in the manga other than the Cracker figth. I remembered Lucci getting him with a normal rankyaku but that seems to be from the anime only. Lucci does, however, hit him with two small rankyakus, which are still, by all means, cuts, and that's before Luffy goes G3 and inflates his chest.

 

[nik87]

I remember the prison arc and it's true that he teared himself a bit by stretching, but the amount of stretch he needed to just start tearing was necessarily over how much he's had to stretch during any of his fights (or he would have also started tearing during those fights) and he still did a lot of fighting afterwards without much care, so it's still not really something to take into account unless someone cuts more than half through his arm and that would render anyone's arm useless.

I don't remember other instances of big cuts in the manga other than the Cracker figth. I remembered Lucci getting him with a normal rankyaku but that seems to be from the anime only. Lucci does, however, hit him with two small rankyakus, which are still, by all means, cuts, and that's before Luffy goes G3 and inflates his chest.

It is hard to define that weakness through feats when Oda has ignored far worse damage than the one from stretching while sliced.
However, it is backed by science, logic and manga itself in Enel's arc, through MC admitting it himself.

 

[HereNThere]

I like this! Rank your top 10 alliance fighters, go!

Eh, too many people of potentially the same level to do so.

Marco
Luffy/Yamato
Izo/Denjiro/Kawamatsu/Ashura

Even this might not be clear. Yamato especially might throw things off since we don't know his whole deal.

Everyone else is up in the air as far as I'm concerned. Kidd and Law could either be comparable to Luffy, just under him, or below the "Elder" Scabbards.

Zoro and Sanji could be comparable to the "Elder" Scabbards or below them.

No one has enough feats.

 

[nik87]

Top10?

Zoro
Law~Marco~Luffy~Kidd~Jinbe
Denjiro>~Ashura Douji~Kawamatsu~Killer

 

[Shasha23]

Top10?

Zoro
Law~Marco~Luffy~Kidd~Jinbe
Denjiro>~Ashura Douji~Kawamatsu~Killer

LOL


Marco-Luffy-Kid
Zoro-Law-Jinbe
Denjiro-Ashura-Kawamatsu
Killer

 

[thedude]

Do you want to rank the top alliance members? Let's say top ten?
Here's my list:
We now have:

Luffy/Marco
Yamato
Kidd/Law
Kyoshiro?
Jinbei
Izo/Zoro/Sanji

I think in that order. I might be missing someone obvious tho... I'm half drunk lol

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 8, 2020 ---

I like this! Rank your top 10 alliance fighters, go!

Luffy
Marco/Yamato
Inu/Neku/Kidd/Law/Kyoshiro/Jinbei/Ashura
Zoro/Sanji/Izo
Kawamatsu
Killer/remainder of 9 scabbards


smh at Killer going above Sanji...but i won't be pulled into debates with those two.

 

[Nie Li]

It is hard to define that weakness through feats when Oda has ignored far worse damage than the one from stretching while sliced.
However, it is backed by science, logic and manga itself in Enel's arc, through MC admitting it himself.

The way I see Enel's conversation, it was more about slashing being the only means of damaging Luffy for Enel, since he couldn't be pummeled nor electrified. Let's wait until Luffy does fight more blade users eventually. If CP0 is in Wano right now (confirmed by X-Drake), we might see more rankyakus flying his way soon enough.



Now, switching the topic to the top ten...

I like this! Rank your top 10 alliance fighters, go!

1: Luffy, mostly because he'll be the one to beat Kaido (I wish Zoro did because of his connection to Wano and that he uses Enma but realistically speaking I doubt he will defeat any main villain other than Morgan and, eventually, Mihawk). If he masters the top tier CoA, having already mastered Katakuri's level of CoO, he'll be a beast. Not to mention he could also just pull out some G5 out of nowhere right on time for the big boss just like he's been done before with 2, 3 and 4.

2/3/4: Law / Kid / Zoro. Law and Kid are Luffy's main rivals right now as pirate captains and the plot seems to point at them rising to be just below him in the future. I see Law as still a bit stronger than Luffy because of how tricky his fighting style and DF are, but Luffy will undoubtedly surpass both his rivals in this arc. They're also the most likely characters to help him fight Kaido although it will probably end in a 1vs1, as usual. Zoro was shown to be pushed back by some of the scabbards but I don't think we have seen him go serious since the timeskip. I have faith in him performing well enough with his santoryu and Enma to be at least on the level of Law and Kid, if not above them, and getting a bit stronger during the fight (which is what he usually does when he pushes himself in a fight, rather than evolving between them). This arc is the most tied to him as a character and his origins we will ever get until he gets to fight Mihawk so I expect that much from him.

5/6: Inuarashi / Nekomamushi. As @Aki1991 pointed out, if there's a full moon they're certainly going to become the stronger beasts than the rest of the Scabbards.

7 / 8 / 9: Denjiro / Ashura Doji / Izo. I was extremely impressed by Denjiro and as Scabbards that didn't travel through time both him and Ashura have had 20 years to train and grown stronger. Ashura was also impressive in slashing Jack. Of course that was not enough to take down an ancient zoan (who still hadn't even activated his transformation) but it's impressive nonetheless and I think it's more damage than Inuarashi and Nekomamushi managed to do to him. Izo is here because I expect him to have underwent the same kind of evolution in his skill during these 20 years, despite him not shining in Marineford (to be fair, none of the NW captains other than Whitebeard did, either).

10: Marco. I'm sorry for putting Marco so low. I'd put him together with Law, Kid and Zoro if it wasn't because in this arc the enemies have manufactured kairouseki bullets that even the lowest of underlings use. If Marco tries to use his fruits main power of ignoring damage and instantly regenerating (which is what he's used to doing constrantly) it he could go down in seconds. I'm pretty certain it won't happen as it would be the biggest turn off possible for us readers but I'm just being realistic here.


I'm starting to think I write too much.

 

[HereNThere]

I forgot about ol' Jimboree.

I'd toss him in with the "Elder" Scabbards.

 

[nik87]

Let's wait until Luffy does fight more blade users eventually.

I am sure that will never happen. I bet you that Blackbeard will forget about his claws while fighting Luffy.

10: Marco.

I guess higher-ups wont be using Kairoseki to hinder Marco's regeneration but I am afraid that he will reach his limit due to the amount of damage he will take.

LOL

Zoro the war god is coming.

 

[Nie Li]

I forgot about ol' Jimboree.

I'd toss him in with the "Elder" Scabbards.

Dammit! I forgot poor Jimbe too.

 

[Shasha23]

Too many top tiers in the alliance

Marco
Luffy-Kid-Drake
Yamato-Zoro-Law-Jinbe
Denjiro-Ashura-Kawamatsu
Inuarashi-Nekomamushi
Izo-Killer
Kinemon-Heat-Sanji
Kiku-Raizo-Jean Bart
Robin-Brook-Franky-Wire

 

[nik87]

@Shasha23 The reason you place Kidd and Drake above Zoro is because of the report that those two are making waves in New World?
Dont you think that is unfair to Zoro who has been laying low for 2 years and cant possibly have the same info attached?

 

[thedude]

Well, I assure you I wouldn't have defended those claims had I been here. Crocodile is superior to Mr.1 in every thinkable aspect since he even has cutting attacks, and Lucci's dourikis and mastery of the rokushiki demonstrated by his use of rokuougan makes him superior to any other CP9 (and I'm rooting for him to also be the strongest CP0 now. I love Lucci).


Mihawk and Zoro are my favorite characters, so I guess I'm technically a swordboi? In any case, this is why I think I'm too new to these subthreads. I just read comments about character's strengths and try my best to rationalize who would win a fight. I'm not familiar with the intent behind those who started each argument but I think all's good as long as my comments remain objective.


People seeing things differently is healthy for the mind as long as those involved are open to respecting where the other comes from. We should all be chill about this. Although I can understand how if certain topics are brought up over and over again they get tiring.



I'll be honest: I hadn't even thought about the properties of rubber when stretching after being cut. It makes 100% sense that Luffy would rip himself off if stretching too far after being cut, but after almost 1000 chapters of being cut all over and still keep fighting and stretching at Gear2 speeds, it has never happened, so just like we shouldn't make up feats, we shouldn't make up weaknesses: Luffy doesn't rip on his own after being cut.

I will second Lexus and say you've only made great arguments based on the actual manga, sorry you had to enter the conversation without knowing the layers lol. It's like an onion, and at the center...it's always Zoro.

Drake isn't in the alliance, but he's on the "Law/Kidd just below Luffy" level.

 

[Nie Li]

I will second Lexus and say you've only made great arguments based on the actual manga, sorry you had to enter the conversation without knowing the layers lol. It's like an onion, and at the center...it's always Zoro.

Drake isn't in the alliance, but he's on the "Law/Kidd just below Luffy" level.

Agreed about Drake. I hope he fights another Flying 6 member to show off how he's more than just an ancient zoan user.

 

[HereNThere]

I really hope we see at least one person harden their teeth in their Zoan form and bite someone.

 

[thedude]

I really hope we see at least one person harden their teeth in their Zoan form and bite someone.

Well, Brachiosaurus wouldn't have sharp teeth, neither would the mammoth, so Queen and Jack are out there lol.