One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

Like I said,

Bye.

Don't make me answer to so many fallacies if you aren't willing to defend them. Moving on.

 

[nik87]

Or are you saying Roger was weaker than WB?

Even if they are equal in 1vs1, Whitebeard is still the strongest man thanks to his DF being able to destroy the world, something that Roger doesnt have and cannot make up for. His title is just fine. WB defeating Roger to prove you his title achieves nothing but discrediting the Pirate King.
I am sure that Oda as a writer doesnt want that. Same situation with Kaido vs BM. Title is enough to show Kaido's superiority, giving BM a loss achieves nothing good for Oda and his story except discrediting one of his own strongest creations...

Better hope Mihawk wasn't called WSS when him and Shanks used to duel and he was his rival.

If Shanks was stronger than Mihawk, he would be wielding the WSS title in the present and everyone's lives would be so much easier but it aint so.

 

[AmitDS]

Don't make me answer to so many fallacies if you aren't willing to defend them. Moving on.

Did you not say three replies ago that it was your last? I explicitly said I was not replying to that argument again. I didn't make you answer to any fallacy. If you believe you stated a fact somewhere then yay for you. Hopefully you get confirmation in the manga soon. I actually didn't and couldn't make you do anything and yes move on. Finally. Pls and thx.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 30, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 30, 2020 ---

Even if they are equal in 1vs1, Whitebeard is still the strongest man thanks to his DF being able to destroy the world, something that Roger doesnt have and cannot make up for. His title is just fine. WB defeating Roger to prove you his title achieves nothing but discrediting the Pirate King.
I am sure that Oda as a writer doesnt want that. Same situation with Kaido vs BM. Title is enough to show Kaido's superiority, giving BM a loss achieves nothing good for Oda and his story except discrediting one of his own strongest creations...

If Shanks was stronger than Mihawk, he would be wielding the WSS title in the present and everyone's lives would be so much easier but it aint so.

We all have opinions don't we?

If Kaido was stronger then why would he tie with someone weaker? That actually debunks what you all think of titles. You make the strongest tie with other people all the time and say other people are on their level but this means they are stronger because a title?

So what you're saying is that Big Mom tied with Kaido and Roger with Whitebeard? Gotcha.

I actually don't care about Whitebeard's title or what it means. Him rivaling Roger is what matters to me. People use WSM to put him above other characters so I used the same logic.

Um no actually as proven with Big Mom and Kaido Shanks could have equaled him even if he had said title. And actually if Shanks was dueling him when Mihawk already had his title it wouldn't give Shanks the title unless he won. He'd have to beat him in a duel back then. And I never said Shanks was stronger to have the WSS title though. I never said Shanks was stronger at all.

 

[nik87]

That actually debunks what you all think of titles.

It doesnt. In SBS, Oda clearly said that Kaido is the strongest character, no amount of mental gymnastics and "what if" or "why didnt he" can change that.

So what you're saying is that Big Mom tied with Kaido and Roger with Whitebeard?

What is your point?

If Mihawk was stronger then wouldn't he be mentioned as idk stronger than an actual emperor or two and people would idk bring it up for the kids reading to know that there is a pirate who is stronger than Red Hair and Big Mom with their swords roaming the seas alone and he works for the government? Wouldn't Shanks hesitate to fight him?

But he is mentioned that he is stronger than those emperors and couple of admirals by naming him the strongest swordsman in the world...
Why would Shanks hesitate to fight him? Which top tier is hesitating to fight which top tier?

The problem lies in you and the rest of the fandom who doesnt like what the titles mean because it doesnt align with your own power scaling list.
That is the only cause of these debates, Oda certainly never did anything to discredit the title wielders or put someone above them who shouldnt be.

Another thing, people underestimate the power of numbers. Without a crew, Shanks is lower threat than Mihawk. Oda isnt thinking in 1vs1 terms as those scenarios are unrealistic most of the time. No single individual will be a bigger threat than an entire army, no matter how strong they are. Even WSC himself, stalled Oden for 5 years until he managed to reduce the yakuza numbers because he didnt like the odds of combined forces of Oden and Hyogoro armies.
He was stronger than Oden from the start, the only thing changed is the numbers that were against him were lowered.

Marineford encircling walls werent used to stop Whitebeard, they were used to stop his forces. If Whitebeard came alone to Marineford, Marines wouldnt bother gathering their forces and would dispatch one, at worst two Admirals and would go back to sleep. So, if you are expecting Mihawk to be treated the same as someone who commands large numbers, you are misunderstanding the importance of numbers. Despite being stronger than Shanks, Mihawk is a lower threat because he is just 1 man who has no crew and 1 man can be dealth with no matter how strong he is.

 

[AmitDS]

It doesnt. In SBS, Oda clearly said that Kaido is the strongest character, no amount of mental gymnastics and "what if" or "why didnt he" can change that.

He said he's the strongest which referred to strongest creature clearly, which, given the context in which its used in the series (Nami thought he wasn't human) and how he skirmished with Shanks and tied with Big Mom whether you like it or not, proves that this title fails to make him the strongest emperor or character especially one vs one.

What is your point?

Harping on titles like you all do skews powerscaling against Oda's intentions actually.

But he is mentioned that he is stronger than those emperors and couple of admirals by naming him the strongest swordsman in the world...
Why would Shanks hesitate to fight him? Which top tier is hesitating to fight which top tier?

No that's your inference. Him being known as the strongest swordsman doesn't mean that he is stronger than every character who ever used a sword or that characters cannot equal him.

Oda is so into titles, he lists the strongest pirates, goes on and on about Kaido's title, but never hyped Mihawk who according to you is stronger than at least 2 emperors outside of he's the strongest swordsman ? That's logical? You don't even know when he got that title and he's never beaten Shanks who became an emperor afterwards.

And this is Shanks hesitating? Really? He doesn't seem worried or hesitant at all. Shanks doesn't care that the WSS is here to challenge him but this means nothing?

Spoiler

The problem lies in you and the rest of the fandom who doesnt like what the titles mean because it doesnt align with your own power scaling list.
That is the only cause of these debates, Oda certainly never did anything to discredit the title wielders or put someone above them who shouldnt BE.

The problem is you thinking anyone who doesn't see Mihawk as above the emperors sees them all as stronger than him for sure. All because of Shanks I presume. Oda has also shown us time and time again who rivals whom and who can equal whom. Shanks not caring that he's arm less and may have to fight Mihawk and the emperors actually being called the strongest pirates with people like Kaido, Whitebeard and Big Mom among them is also Oda telling us something but you just fail to see it because the implicit and even the explicit is lost in this fandom. He's called the strongest swordsman so no one can equal him even though some some don't use swords and equalling doesn't debunk strongest. Lol sure.

Another thing, people underestimate the power of numbers. Without a crew, Shanks is lower threat than Mihawk.

Your opinion.
No emperor is seen as a lower threat than any other pirate. Take that thought out of your head right now. Lol.

Oda isnt thinking in 1vs1 terms as those scenarios are unrealistic most of the time. No single individual will be a bigger threat than an entire army, no matter how strong they are.

How do you know what he's thinking? And um okay? That still doesn't prove that emperors are only strong due to their crews and not due to their own power too.

Even WSC himself, stalled Oden for 5 years until he managed to reduce the yakuza numbers because he didnt like the odds of combined forces of Oden and Hyogoro armies.
He was stronger than Oden from the start, the only thing changed is the numbers that were against him were lowered.

Kaido back then was significantly weaker than Kaido of today. FACT. Kaido back then fought evenly with Moria for a while. Kaido of today is known as WSC. No evidence exists of Kaido 20 years ago having such a title. And no actually Oden was clearly shown stronger. He was beating him and Kaido got help. Oden also told him to get stronger after he beat him. Where are you getting your info?

Marineford encircling walls werent used to stop Whitebeard, they were used to stop his forces. If Whitebeard came alone to Marineford, Marines wouldnt bother gathering their forces and would dispatch one, at worst two Admirals and would go back to sleep. So, if you are expecting Mihawk to be treated the same as someone who commands large numbers, you are misunderstanding the importance of numbers. Despite being stronger than Shanks, Mihawk is a lower threat because he is just 1 man who has no crew and 1 man can be dealth with no matter how strong he is.

And you have no proof that Mihawk would garner more attention than Shanks if they each individually were to invade Marineford. Are you still trying to say that strongest pirates only refer to crew strength?

Lawd. How and why did I fall into the trap of the ?
Sigh * No more.

 

[nik87]

He said he's the strongest creature which, given the context in which its used in the series (Nami thought he wasn't human) and how he skirmished with Shanks and tied with Big Mom whether you like it or not, proves that this title fails to make him the strongest emperor or character especially one vs one.

Fan: Is my mother stronger than Akainu?
Oda: Mother is the strongest, she is even stronger than Kaido.
There ya go, Oda's direct statement than Kaido is the strongest character.

Harping on titles like you all do skews powerscaling against Oda's intentions actually.

Taking titles at face value changes absolutely nothing. It only upsets fans who dont want to take what Oda is saying seriously.

No that's your inference. Him being known as the strongest swordsman doesn't mean that he is stronger than every character who ever used a sword or that characters cannot equal him.

Oda is so into titles, he lists the strongest pirates, goes on and on about Kaido's title, but never hyped Mihawk who according to you is stronger than at least 2 emperors outside of he's the strongest swordsman ? That's logical? You don't even know when he got that title and he's never beaten Shanks who became an emperor afterwards.
And this is Shanks hesitating? Really? He doesn't seem worried or hesitant at all. Shanks doesn't care that the WSS is here to challenge him but this means nothing?

Him being known as strongest swordsman in the world means that he is stronger than any other living swordsman in his era while he holds that title.
Even if he is stronger by 0.00001%, he is the one who Oda chose to be the strongest among them all. Why object to what Oda is saying?

It is not according to me, it is according to Oda because he gave the title to Mihawk and not to those 2 Emperors. Why are you trying to pin it on me?
Do I know when WSC and WSM got their titles? The important thing is that Mihawk holds the title in the present while other Yonko swordsmen dont have it.
Did you read what I said? I said Why would Shanks hesitate? I was asking a question not saying that Shanks is hesitating. Why would any top tier hesitate to fight another top tier?

The problem is you thinking anyone who doesn't see Mihawk as above the emperors sees them all as stronger than him for sure. All because of Shanks I presume. Oda has also shown us time and time again who rivals whom and who can equal whom. Shanks not caring that he's arm less and may have to fight Mihawk and the emperors actually being called the strongest pirates with people like Kaido, Whitebeard and Big Mom among them is also Oda telling us something but you just fail to see it because the implicit and even the explicit is lost in this fandom. He's called the strongest swordsman so no one can equal him even though some some don't use swords and equalling doesn't debunk strongest. Lol sure.

The problem are fans who think they know better than Oda, they think that some other swordsman is stronger than Mihawk.
Emperors have been called the most powerful pirates, not as the strongest individuals, there is a difference.
The problem is also that you think by being weaker than Mihawk you think Mihawk can trash them. Fights between top tiers are always extreme difficulty fights, doesnt matter if one is stronger than the other, the fight will still go into extremes.
Equaling in clashes means nothing, those fights have never been fought until a victor emerged.

Your opinion.
No emperor is seen as a lower threat than any other pirate. Take that thought out of your head right now. Lol.

No, it is not my opinion, it is manga fact, I already explained through WB and Kaido examples.
Emperors are the biggest threats precisely because they have numbers behind them. Alone, by themselves, they are no different than Mihawk.

How do you know what he's thinking? And um okay? That still doesn't prove that emperors are only strong due to their crews and not due to their own power too.

When have I said that they arent strong on their own? I just said they are no different than Mihawk without their crews.
And I know what's Oda thinking by actually seeing how he treats the numbers and their relevance.

Kaido back then was significantly weaker than Kaido of today. FACT. Kaido back then fought evenly with Moria for a while. Kaido of today is known as WSC. No evidence exists of Kaido 20 years ago having such a title. And no actually Oden was clearly shown stronger. He was beating him and Kaido got help. Oden also told him to get stronger after he beat him. Where are you getting your info?

Kaido being weaker 20 years ago or not is irrelevant. He was stronger than Oden from the start and still stalled for 5 years until he killed off fodder yakuzas to improve his odds instead of clashing against combined armies of Oden and Hyogoro. You cannot deny that, it is a manga fact.
No, Oden wasnt stronger. He couldnt do anything to him in Orochi's castle when Kaido took him on in base form. He got lucky and landed a clean shot on Kaido's dragon form which is an easy target. Also, in his letter to Toki, Oden said - If I cant beat Kaido, no one else will be able to either in long time. If that is not implying WSC, I dont know what is.

And you have no proof that Mihawk would garner more attention than Shanks if they each individually were to invade Marineford. Are you still trying to say that strongest pirates only refer to crew strength?

No, of course it is not just about crew strength but as you can see, the numbers play a huge role in threat level. Pick any Yonko by themselves, alone, and let them invade Marineford. They will be spanked back to their momma in no time and Marines wont even bother to call it an emergency...
You have proof in the manga itself lol, Shiki alone invaded Marineford, two top tiers were more than enough to deal with him. Now, imagine how many forces would be needed if Shiki brought his fleet that attacked Roger, the greatest armada.
An individual and the same individual with all his forces are completely different threat levels, it is not even comparable.
Give Mihawk a crew of any Yonko and Mihawk is Yonko level threat too but alone, he cannot simply be even if he was 10 times stronger than he is.

 

[jaymizzo]

So, with Shanks being overall stronger that means he is overall harder to beat and requires more effort.
I am telling you, Zoro is targetting the wrong guy if your assumptions are true.

Akainu in the role of the MAIN CHARACTER.
Kaido isnt in the role of the main character.
Oda's statement is clear, both Akainu and Kaido are mentioned and he clearly placed Kaido as nr1.

He says Akainu is so strong that he could find OP in a day, he doesn't bring in Kaido.... That contradicts your statement.

 

[thedude]

...a joke in an SBS is now being used as proof....lordy...

Want to know how Oda will show Kaido isn't the strongest? He's going to lose in this arc, and Luffy will fight harder opponents in the future...because shonen manga.

 

[Nie Li]

Want to know how Oda will show Kaido isn't the strongest? He's going to lose in this arc, and Luffy will fight harder opponents in the future...because shonen manga.

Before saying that we shall first see how exactly Kaido goes down.

For example I have argued other times that Luffy wasn't stronger than Doflamingo when he defeated him, for various reasons like Doflamingo being badly injured by Law in the first half of the fight.
If Kaido was to be injured, nerfed or just tagteamed by multiple top-tier people that are able to damage or weaken him before (or at the same time that) Luffy engages him, then defeating Kaido wouldn't automatically mean Luffy's stronger. For now our heroes definitely aren't aiming for a 1vs1 honorable fight against him.

The difference might be that in the future Luffy will actually be able to bring a yonkou down with 0 help.

 

[nik87]

He says Akainu is so strong that he could find OP in a day, he doesn't bring in Kaido.... That contradicts your statement.

Yeah that statement has no Kaido involved and places Akainu in the role of main character... Any top tier with plot armor of the main character would end it in a year, just like Akainu...
However, when Akainu and Kaido are directly compared, Oda is placing Kaido above him. That is undisputed proof that Kaido is strongest character.

Want to know how Oda will show Kaido isn't the strongest? He's going to lose in this arc, and Luffy will fight harder opponents in the future...because shonen manga.

Which one is stronger, the guy who falls down to an army or the guy who falls down to one guy?

 

[roggie]

Well, call me stupid, but i still feel Shanks would overpower Mihawk. After his conqueror clash with WB, even cracking the ship, it's hard to not think Shanks outputs an overwhelming aura over his opponents. In these long dragging battles, it's too tiresome to keep fighting against this kind of constant pressure.

But Shanks also seems the kind of guy who would refrain to hurt the pride of a person that he really respects. As he would let Mihawk win, that explains why the latter holds the title of strongest swordsman.

 

[Nie Li]

Well, call me stupid, but i still feel Shanks would overpower Mihawk. After his conqueror clash with WB, even cracking the ship, it's hard to not think Shanks outputs an overwhelming aura over his opponents. In these long dragging battles, it's too tiresome to keep fighting against this kind of constant pressure.

But Shanks also seems the kind of guy who would refrain to hurt the pride of a person that he really respects. As he would let Mihawk win, that explains why the latter holds the title of strongest swordsman.

That second paragraph sounds too patronizing to both Mihawk and people like Zoro to aspire to be the strongest.

Shanks is definitely a powerhouse, I don't think anyone doubts his strength as one of the top tiers of the series, but that aura (CoC) that even Marco could just ignore doesn't mean anything in the "Mihawk - Shanks" debate. We don't know Mihawk's limits.

 

[nik87]

As he would let Mihawk win, that explains why the latter holds the title of strongest swordsman.

Bruhhh...

 

[jaymizzo]

What you find correct to assume, I, however, find it "improbable" for two reasons.
The first reason is that if two people fight only with swords, and one is more skilled than the other, then that person is stronger. Period.
The second reason is that it'd be impossible to decide "who is more skilled" between two pure swordsmen if not by who's stronger between the two.

Once again, swordsmanship is about skill. Whoever has the better technique wins. That doesn't matter anyway as Mihawk has never won against Shanks.

According to me, it doesn't contradict anything. Rayleigh is a swordsman and Roger, as far as we know, is as well. Of course, Roger doesn't count because he's dead and Rayleigh is well past his prime despite his still superb strength (Mihawk is the WSS, not the "WSS of all time"). The only reason you may find contradictions is because you've told yourself "these individuals must be stronger, so if there's any reasoning why Mihawk should be stronger than them then it contradicts what I already know think".

I haven't told myself that Roger and Rayleigh were stronger than Mihawk, at least the manga shows that Roger was on a completely different level but still never cared to be WSS. This title is something only Mihawk has held while there have been swordsmen who are overall stronger than him.

Big Mom and the likes area a different matter. I have gone over that in particular many times today.

There are multiple tellings of Mihawk being stronger than him. The title is one of them, but not he only one. But I'm not going to rewrite the whole thing for every person quoting my latest post without reading the previous, since it would possibly the third or fourth time today.

The title does not in any way put Mihawk above Shanks, its never been a point in the story. They are rivals whose duel results are unknown. May you please show us these tellings within the manga that say Mihawk is actually stronger than Shanks.

If you're willing to argue that Mihawk is not the strongest swordsman despite the manga telling us that he is, please tell me where is it implied that he isn't without talking about WB or Kaido, who are a different matter topic, or at least argue against my points in this conversation and not just against a single sentence in a single post.

His title is about skill, not about overall strength. Swordfights have rules where its swords only, in those instances where its a sword duel, Mihawk would win. When any other element comes into play, he probably wouldn't.

They are indeed just our opinions. I've not seen in your post, however, any reason why you think so other than you just do. You've said many reasons why "strongest may only be most skilled" but not "why" Mihawk can't be stronger than people like Shanks or why my reasons to think so are flawed (other than the title reason and, even then, you haven't told me "why" the title can't just mean literally what it says).

There are around 300 pages here of us discussing the same subject, most of those points have been touched upon again.

I hope this doesn't sound rude but you're free to provide a different topic or not answering if you're tired of this one. Anyway, in my first three posts about this topic I said:

"I pray that you read my first few posts on the topic today."

I don't why you'd think Vista is not a swordsman. He literally only uses two swords, what's your point?

He doesn't just use swords, he uses some weird flower technique to compliment his swordsmanship, which going by what you said, a swordsman is someone who purely just uses their sword i.e. that steel.
E.G. here

Law is not what I'm calling a "pure swordsman", no. I don't think he's included in the "automatically weaker than Mihawk" clause of his title, because in his case, he's not only a swordsman, he's has a tricky OP DF power. However, that doesn't mean he isn't weaker than Mihawk. Law definitely is.

Law fights with his sword primarily, but he isn't a swordsman because he happens to have a DF that compliments his preferred fighting style? Okay, so he is not a pure swordsman, then that list dries up pretty quickly to only Mihawk and Zoro who care about WSS.

Characters like Shanks and Vista, on the other hand, are literally only swordsmen. Whatever haki they might use in tandem with their sword is just part of their swordsmanship skills, just like Mihawk's (and as I also argued before, there's no tellings of Shanks CoA being stronger than Mihawk's. There's actually a telling of Mihawk's being stronger).

Vista utilises more than just his sword. It may not be a DF but using illusions tricks or whatever means you are not a pure swordsman... We've seen Roger use his fists, is he now not a pure swordsman as his hands come into play?

How would you know?

Know that there is no other character other than Zoro (don't know if Tashigi cares) and Mihawk who care about WSS.

You know it's Zoro's life objective because you read the beginning of the manga and the manga shows you his thoughts, and even then, his goal rarely passes through his immediate thoughts. It's rarely ever mentioned.

We also know Kaidos life objective, Crocodiles life objective, Supernovas life objectives... At any given chance, people want to be either PK/Yonkou/Advance in Marine ranks. These are people we see for maybe an arc or two, how many of them have wanted to be WSS?

If the series followed a different crew, like Law's, you'd know as much about Zoro as you do about Bepo, so who's to know there aren't other characters with a similar ambition to Zoro's? And even more so, who's to say most of them aren't dead because they callenged Mihawk too soon (like Zoro originally did) but Mihawk wasn't as merciful?

I sure as hell would know that Zoro wants to be WSS and he is aiming for Mihawks head. That would actually be a talking point.... The SHs number 2 wants to beat Mihawk and be WSS....

You make many assumptions on a topic we just don't know much about.

We know who wants to be PK, who wants to be flying six, who wants to be headliners etc etc I am not making assumptions, this arc literally shows us people who want to attain different titles. Who among them has mentioned WSS?

I'm not defending Kaido's or Whitebeard's titles nor do I have a solid opinion on them or on Big Mom. My only discussion here is about Mihawk's position in the power ranking and his title wasn't my only point.

His title is normally the only point though, I guess you tried a different approach but still leads to the same.

As already pointed out, Mihawk being on par with a Yonkou pretty much fucks up the Schibukai system.

If Shanks were stronger overall, then he'd be a stronger swordsman.

He is considered one of the 4 strongest Pirates. Mihawk is a Pirate.

For him being the strongest means defeating whoever is the current strongest swordsman (i.e. person who fights depending on one more on one swords).
If Shanks is stronger than Mihawk, Mihawk would stop being Zoro's objective and, instead, Shanks would become it and Zoro would have to defeat him in the future.

Shanks is a Yonkou, Yonkous want to be PK.
Mihawk is a Swordsman who holds a title Zoro wants, why would he go a path that would lead him to a completely irrelevant path than his dream? (You know beating a Yonkou kinda makes you a candidate for being considered one.....)

 

[thedude]

From the start, Zoro's whole thing has never been to be the strongest. Kuina was beating him even though Zoro was good enough to beat adults. It was never physical strength, it was sword skill. Two children able to defeat adults. "I'm going to sail the seven seas and become the greatest swords master in the world".

When Kuina cried to him about how she'd lose because he was a boy and would get physically stronger, Zoro was furious, saying it had nothing to do with that, it was about skill and training.

Zoro's goal has never been to be the strongest person in the world. It's to be known as the greatest swordsman. That's it. Now, becoming that will make him one of the strongest for sure, but it doesn't mean he has to beat the strongest person who wields a sword (Shanks I think, but maybe someone we haven't met), it means he has to beat the very best Swordsman, who is Mihawk (although that can just be due to others like Shanks not challenging him for that, because they don't care to be known as that).

as @jaymizzo said, and what I said before, the entire power structure of the world falls apart if a Yonko, a Yonko with the smallest crew by far, is weaker than a Shcibukai. Shanks isn't a Yonko if that is true.

 

[jaymizzo]

From the start, Zoro's whole thing has never been to be the strongest. Kuina was beating him even though Zoro was good enough to beat adults. It was never physical strength, it was sword skill. Two children able to defeat adults. "I'm going to sail the seven seas and become the greatest swords master in the world".

When Kuina cried to him about how she'd lose because he was a boy and would get physically stronger, Zoro was furious, saying it had nothing to do with that, it was about skill and training.

Zoro's goal has never been to be the strongest person in the world. It's to be known as the greatest swordsman. That's it. Now, becoming that will make him one of the strongest for sure, but it doesn't mean he has to beat the strongest person who wields a sword (Shanks I think, but maybe someone we haven't met), it means he has to beat the very best Swordsman, who is Mihawk (although that can just be due to others like Shanks not challenging him for that, because they don't care to be known as that).

We're going full circle now
Jan 2020

It is headcannon that swordsmanship is about skill and not strength? What the actual hell.

Kuina is rolling in her grave.

Spoiler: Your bois waifu

 

[thedude]

We're going full circle now
Jan 2020

Lol, i should mark on my calendar 6 months from now for the next time!

 

[nik87]

It was never physical strength, it was sword skill.

swordsmanship is about skill. Whoever has the better technique wins.

Why is Zoro training everything except the sword skill?
I dont think I am able to talk some sense into you guys.

 

[jaymizzo]

Why is Zoro training everything except the sword skill?
I dont think I am able to talk some sense into you guys.

Spoiler: Your bois waifu

 

[nik87]

the entire power structure of the world falls apart if a Yonko, a Yonko with the smallest crew by far, is weaker than a Shcibukai. Shanks isn't a Yonko if that is true.

I never said this. Shanks with his crew is incomparably stronger than Mihawk. Shanks without his crew is weaker than Mihawk.

snip

My boi asks if he wins will it be because of his strength. Where is the skill?