Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I will say this... If Mihawk was the one that clashed with Whitebeard and Akainu and was Strong enough to stop the war with his words and all Shanks did was clash with a Yonko Commander... Serious or not, I wouldn't be talking.

 

[albertwv]

thank god we're finally moving on.

What I want to know is how strong are the CP0 agents. Also how do you judge CP9's PreTS strenght compared to the NW pirates to exclude YCs obviously.

 

[King Moe]

thank god we're finally moving on.

What I want to know is how strong are the CP0 agents. Also how do you judge CP9's PreTS strenght compared to the NW pirates to exclude YCs obviously.

If I have to judge on how strong CP0 members will be, my best guess they are all YC lvl possible since while it's non-canon, Oda gave Lucci vs Sabo despite Sabo was able to beat Burgess and fight off Fujitora, so if he was fine with that, then Lucci and others could be stronger than we think. Though again it's non-canon, so who knows on his power, but he is above dealing with Sai and Leo when they try to mess with Celestial Dragon, so he have far stronger since last time we saw him and that goes for the others. Also wondering we will see Jabra and old group in CP0 together as I wonder if Oda is keeping them off from showing whole group which is possible since there are masked members still.

 

[roggie]

You doesn't have to be serious to beat YC as Whitebeard, Kaido, and Big Mom have prove when beating their respecting YC lvl threats without going full power, Mihawk was stop by 2 of them and never beat them as well by Crocodile himself and only people he beaten in arc was Daz Bones and Impel Down Prisoners. That is about it. Admirals shown their dominance over YCs in war, but Mihawk didn't. It's be ignorant to not see that as Oda knows how to put who is above who in a fight. If he couldn't do it, he couldn't do it. Best to say on his full power he is in-between of Admiral and YCs or equal to them. We just going at what Marineford show and it doesn't help he never face Yonko Shanks, just Pre-Yonko Shanks, so can't determine him above them if performance doesn't show.

For people who always argues asking for real feats, those are great examples and they don't talk high about the noble Mihawk.

Also, in the first chapters, Luffy states that his first mate should achieve at least that much (to become WSS). What's corroborated by Mihawk himself, when Luffy claims he will be pirate king and the swordsman indicates it's a path even harder than to surpass him. So, not that big deal.

Do you realize that the WS Axeman, Spearman, Clawman, ... could be stronger than WSS ?

 

[Ramen]

thank god we're finally moving on.

What I want to know is how strong are the CP0 agents. Also how do you judge CP9's PreTS strenght compared to the NW pirates to exclude YCs obviously.

The obvious point of discussion is Rob Lucci. What puts him at a disadvantage imo is his fruit. It's very short range. Someone like Enel, Magellan, or Katakuri shouldn't have much trouble against him.

If he was to have haki, I'd put him at high Yc2-low Yc1 level.

 

[nik87]

people confuses Luffy's rubber body properties. He is not vulnerable to slashes

There is no confusion actually, his vulnerability is a real property of rubber.
A rubber that gets its physical structure compromised, such as cuts, breaks easily when stretching.
Does Oda need to break Luffy or his body parts in half for people to understand that?

no reason why Luffy can't take on swordsmen.

There is one very obvious reason - the way Luffy's fights are designed.
Take tons of hits and deliver tons of hits.
You wont be seeing that movie with a swordsman, at least not without Oda taking a dump on that swordsman and reducing sword's lethality to a mere fist.

I will say this... If Mihawk was the one that clashed with Whitebeard and Akainu and was Strong enough to stop the war with his words and all Shanks did was clash with a Yonko Commander... Serious or not, I wouldn't be talking.

You still dont get it...
First off, Oda needed to finish the war one way or another so RHP entering the ring was the perfect solution.
Second, Shanks words were ignored by both Kizaru and Aokiji who tried their best to kill Luffy and everyone in the submarine.
Third, Marines+Shichubukais are the force that is balancing against 4 Emperors, one full Emperor crew+one Emperor crew without captain and 2nd commander are no challenge for the entire might of Marines and Shichibukais. If they wanted to stomp them, they could have, easily so, just like they stomped Whitebeard pirates.
So, if you think, Shanks is something special, he isnt. Whitebeard and his crew are far more special and Marines willingly picked a fight with him by deciding to execute his commander. Any Yonko captain without his crew is no different threat than Mihawk, just one man and one man doesnt represent the same threat as the man who has numbers behind him. Manga facts show this, whether you like it or not.

Luffy states that his first mate should achieve at least that much (to become WSS). What's corroborated by Mihawk himself, when Luffy claims he will be pirate king and the swordsman indicates it's a path even harder than to surpass him. So, not that big deal.

Well, let's try this again. I have explained it several times, even to you directly if I remember correctly. You are looking at the wrong translations.
Let's see what Stephen Paul says, the current official translator from VIZ:

Oh, look, the complete opposite. Pirate King wouldnt settle for anything less.

 

[jaymizzo]

Well, let's try this again. I have explained it several times, even to you directly if I remember correctly. You are looking at the wrong translations.
Let's see what Stephen Paul says, the current official translator from VIZ:

Oh, look, the complete opposite. Pirate King wouldnt settle for anything less.

Yes, meaning a PK does not need weaklings.

 

[nik87]

Yes, meaning a PK does not need weaklings.

At least and nothing less are on the complete opposite sides.
And there are plenty of weaklings in the crew.

 

[thedude]

The obvious point of discussion is Rob Lucci. What puts him at a disadvantage imo is his fruit. It's very short range. Someone like Enel, Magellan, or Katakuri shouldn't have much trouble against him.

If he was to have haki, I'd put him at high Yc2-low Yc1 level.

Disagree! Properly trained, his fruit gives him a huge strength advantage. Zoans are powerful! If he has haki, he'd make short work of a lot of high end guys. Not sure about Katakuri, but I can see him pummeling Enel if he has haki since Enel just isn't made to get hit.

 

[Ramen]

Disagree! Properly trained, his fruit gives him a huge strength advantage. Zoans are powerful! If he has haki, he'd make short work of a lot of high end guys. Not sure about Katakuri, but I can see him pummeling Enel if he has haki since Enel just isn't made to get hit.

If Enel has haki on top of Mantra he isn't pummeling anything.

His fruits is a top 5, his CoO is top level, and outclasses him in speed 100%.

His Zoan isn't more powerful than his Enel's lightning.

 

[albertwv]

Enel's DF is pretty strong but his body isn't. He has a good level of CoO...if you think him being able to dodge some of Pre TS base Luffy no Gears attacks is worth a feat. Imagine if Gear 2 Luffy who fought Lucci were to fight Enel, Enel would lose like Blueno. You guys praise his CoO but in reality it isnt great when we see it compared to others. His DF is destructive AF but it can be dodge with a pretty strong CoO and maybe blocked with CoA.

Also Rob Lucci CP0 is probably high VA level, I wouldnt go as far as putting him 2nd or 1st YC level.
I don't like to count the movies even if theyre written by ODA into the discussion plus also most of the fights in the movies arent even fights. They are just clashes that give no indication on anybodys strength.

 

[thedude]

If Enel has haki on top of Mantra he isn't pummeling anything.

His fruits is a top 5, his CoO is top level, and outclasses him in speed 100%.

His Zoan isn't more powerful than his Enel's lightning.

He couldn't avoid Luffy punches, Lucci is faster than Luffy at that time. I'm also assuming a haki knowing Lucci (I think he has it now since he is in CPO). Lucci is stronger physically than Luffy was when he beat Enel. Lucci using his Zoan form is even stronger still.

Of course, I'm using Lucci with good haki vs Enel as he fought Luffy here. Enel with Haki and some more durability due to said haki could be another story. But don't discount Zoans, we are witnessing the peak Zoan army right now, and they are nothing to laugh at.

 

[King Moe]

For people who always argues asking for real feats, those are great examples and they don't talk high about the noble Mihawk.

Also, in the first chapters, Luffy states that his first mate should achieve at least that much (to become WSS). What's corroborated by Mihawk himself, when Luffy claims he will be pirate king and the swordsman indicates it's a path even harder than to surpass him. So, not that big deal.

Do you realize that the WS Axeman, Spearman, Clawman, ... could be stronger than WSS ?

Exactly, even Mihawk states level he reaching is above his own and status yet people want to claim and ignore what character said he is on same lvl as those like Yonkos like Whitebeard just because he was in war to stop him which he was shown underneath him by far. Even when he was 'testing gap', he was stop by Jozu an YC to show the gap between him and Whitebeard, implying heavily showing he isn't on that level.

I respect Mihawk and I respect Zoro if one day he face him, but WSS is not above as many think they are with title if feats doesn't show for it much. Some need to let go on overhype and just accept on status on Mihawk and Zoro is heading as it's not to the point others think it is.

 

[nik87]

23 years later and people still dont get that the reason why PK is tougher path is not because you need to be stronger than Mihawk.
If being the strongest would make anyone into PK, Kaido would have been PK. Was Whitebeard PK?
There ya go, 2 individuals stronger than Mihawk and they are not PK, one of them is even equal to actual PK and still not PK himself. Guess why.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Right being equal to Mihawk in strength doesn't make you a PK or else Vista would have been PK along time ago.

 

[jaymizzo]

23 years later and people still dont get that the reason why PK is tougher path is not because you need to be stronger than Mihawk.
If being the strongest would make anyone into PK, Kaido would have been PK. Was Whitebeard PK?
There ya go, 2 individuals stronger than Mihawk and they are not PK, one of them is even equal to actual PK and still not PK himself. Guess why.

WB never wanted to be PK but was noted to have the power to do so. Kaido wants to be PK but WB was considered the gatekeeper to that.

How many notable people want to be WSS?

 

[nik87]

WB never wanted to be PK but was noted to have the power to do so. Kaido wants to be PK but WB was considered the gatekeeper to that.

How many notable people want to be WSS?

Wanting to be PK isnt making him PK. You need to go to Raftel and find One Piece, that's what makes one into a PK.
WB, the gatekeeper is dead. Why didnt Kaido become PK automatically?

1 guy wants to be WSS which is more than how many people want to be a Yonko.

 

[jaymizzo]

Wanting to be PK isnt making him PK. You need to go to Raftel and find One Piece, that's what makes one into a PK.
WB, the gatekeeper is dead. Why didnt Kaido become PK automatically?

1 guy wants to be WSS which is more than how many people want to be a Yonko.

What happens to ones status when they take down a Yonkou? How many Supernovas are gunning for Yonkou? BB wanted to be a Yonkou, Kaido and BM wanted to become rulers.
We have F6 who want to be all stars (but previously wanted to be PK). So no, 1 guy is not the same as multiple people wanting to get to the titles I mentioned.

Also, getting to Raftel makes you PK yes but as we have seen with the Beast pirates, if you are not strong enough to survive, you get broken by those with bigger wills and power.

Wonder why the future WSS is an underling to the PK. Kind of against Zoro to follow someone who will eventually be weaker than him. But what do I know, I just appreciate Zoro as a character.

 

[Aki1991]

PK > WSS, that is for sure. But the PK can be also the WSS, since Roger was fighting also with a sword. This is a shonen. In the end Luffy > all (Zoro included)

 

[Ramen]

Luffy > Zoro.

We all know this. No point in arguing.