One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Ramen]

I said Zoro will face Smoothie or Orochi who can be as dangerous especially if Orochi if his lore is like real life, he come back stronger than before, so he can be threat for Zoro on beating someone who can't be cut given his regeneration powers. Zoro can maybe face Queen, but Idk given writing routes on how he been.

King is stronger than Smoothie. If you say Sanji will fight King and Zoro smoothie that means Sanji > Zoro.

 

[Fox666]

Why are people still matching Zoro or Sanji with the Calamities? :/

 

[Ramen]

Why are people still matching Zoro or Sanji with the Calamities? :/

Why not? It makes some sense

 

[kkck]

At this point it really is nearly impossible to tell who is fighting whom... That the scabbards are fighting kaido on their own is in its way problematic as there are still way too many strong fighters out there, and half of the samurai are busy handling just kaido. At the moment, there is no one actually handling the calamities, the topo robi or even the numbers. Even though by all accounts handling each calamity should require at least 2 people or a single exceptionally big name. Among the scabbards only denjiro, azhura and maybe kawamatsu have the street cred for that and even that is a bit of a stretch... And considering each calamity should be a bigger threat than doflamingo then even it makes sense that most supernova there can't solo them. With the obvious exception of luffy. I don't think kidd, law or zoro have evidenced the capacity to take on a calamity tbh. Add to that the samurai and oniwabanshu apparently joining kaido rather unconditionally...

I am thinking (more like worried) that rather than oda giving zoro a big fight against kaido's crew he will have to handle the samurai that joined kaido. Zoro has a slightly hyped connection to wano considering his village and appearance... Which might be relevant if he ends up facing samurai who have lost every shred of honor they might have had at some point.

 

[King Moe]

King is stronger than Smoothie. If you say Sanji will fight King and Zoro smoothie that means Sanji > Zoro.

Not really, but it's back and forth rivalry on who stronger as Oda always keep it like that in enemies they face. Plus writing routes is pushing on areas who they can face, but still think YCs will be team up on given how situation is turning to be.

 

[nik87]

Speaking of power rankings, I wish we saw more of Charlotte Smoothie. She seemed like such a badass character. Would've been nice to have a fight with her included.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 11, 2020 ---

@nik87 You're a swords guy. What's your favourite sword?

The entire Kitetsu family.

 

[nik87]

Again imagination won't save what you and others stating Zoro would be first to give him damage and again fail once more.

Also Zoro don't intervene in his Captain's fights. Headcannon fantasy won't become how you like when Luffy be one to beat Kaido and finish him. Don't back out cause you guys were wrong again. It same fault when you couldn't admit Zoro will get his sword stolen and knockout. Look what happen XD?

Never said that. Luffy I recall he said that, but never that as well stating 'Zoro's Arc' when it's actually Everyone's Arc especially for Luffy and Scabbards as shown. Just saying, but Zoro will get his fight with Orochi that's for sure .

What have I been wrong about?
Quote the people who said Zoro will damage Kaido first.
Zoro will decapitate Kaido.

Dread it,
Run from it,
Destiny still arrives.

Why are people still matching Zoro or Sanji with the Calamities? :/

Because nobody else than Zoro can take on King without Oda resorting to mental gymnastics like King dropping his sword or something...

 

[King Moe]

What have I been wrong about?
Quote the people who said Zoro will damage Kaido first.
Zoro will decapitate Kaido.

Dread it,
Run from it,
Destiny still arrives.

Because nobody else than Zoro can take on King without Oda resorting to mental gymnastics like King dropping his sword or something...

Everything for starters on how you been rampant on your 'sword over all' for example. Zoro get smack away like the enemies been doing to him. Luffy will be one to take out Kaido while he can take out T6H or Orochi on his side.

 

[Fox666]

Why not? It makes some sense

The battle has already started, and Zoro or Sanji have never got close to them.

Marco is a more than obvious opponent for King.

Kidd has unresolved issues with Queen.

Inuarashi and Nekomamushi have unresolved issued with Jack... and a publication already spoiled Jinbe will do something with Jack.

 

[King Moe]

The battle has already started, and Zoro or Sanji have never got close to them.

Marco is a more than obvious opponent for King.

Kidd has unresolved issues with Queen.

Inuarashi and Nekomamushi have unresolved issued with Jack... and a publication already spoiled Jinbe will do something with Jack.

You have good points, but seeing Luffy will want face Yonko being Kaido, Sanji and Zoro have to prove themselves in being YC lvl in facing YC lvl opponent which could be team-up fights against all Yonkos and YCs, so Sanji could team with Macro to face King or someone with Queen while Zoro could face Orochi, Smoothie or maybe Queen with team with him in facing them. Just like Luffy will fight with a team while still facing more on Kaido after it all.

 

[nik87]

Everything for starters on how you been rampant on your 'sword over all' for example. Zoro get smack away like the enemies been doing to him. Luffy will be one to take out Kaido while he can take out T6H or Orochi on his side.

I am sure you are hallucinating and making stuff up in your fantasy.
Quote those things you mention, if you cant quote them, forget them.
Swords>anything else is proven in this chapter.

Zoro being smacked away? Post panels.
Your favorite character Orochi? The dead fodder Orochi? And Kanjuro the dead?
Zoro is the one to take out Kaido, Luffy lacks the means to put him down for good.

 

[kkck]

You have good points, but seeing Luffy will want face Yonko being Kaido, Sanji and Zoro have to prove themselves in being YC lvl in facing YC lvl opponent which could be team-up fights against all Yonkos and YCs, so Sanji could team with Macro to face King or someone with Queen while Zoro could face Orochi, Smoothie or maybe Queen with team with him in facing them. Just like Luffy will fight with a team while still facing more on Kaido after it all.

YC level enemies is basically anything between the 3 calamities and the topo robi (and maybe the numbers). At the moment I would still maintain that zoro or sanji taking on calamities is waaaaaaaay above their current paygrade though. As I have said before, any calamity (or top 3 yonko commander) is a bigger threat than doflamingo and basically nothing we have seen actually justifies or merits that ridiculous jump. Then again luffy did went from doflamingo to cracker/karakuri so in that regard all bets are off at least. Zoro's best feat in the new world remains basically pica... who is maybe and somewhat optimistically on the low end of yonko commanders in general. So taking even a mid tier yonko commander would be a feat for him. For sanji in turn his best feat in the new world is... non existent. fighting and winning against anything with a name would be huge for him. Well, there is the page one bit but the guy is a bit of a joke to begin with. I suppose we can't rule out oda having sanji fight page one after the guy gets his ass handed to him for the eight time or so.

And elaborating on what I ahve said earlier: I think zoro will deal with the samurai from wano. Zoro has a rather deep connection to wano through his village and possibly blood so him dealing with them would make sense.

And perhaps to make this more complete... sanji will deal with the oniwabanshu. Sanji lacks ties to wano but his invisibility is probably a good tool to deal with them.

Granted that neither sanji or zoro will likely deal with all the soldiers, but perhaps with just a few of them or the big names there.

Of course, in this scenario the two would steer clear off yonko executives... which is the sort of disservice oda has consistently handed both his characters and readers. And who knows, oda even has them deal with those forces through his favorite medium... off screen.

 

[Ramen]

At one point Zoro has to prove himself to be above the strongest YC1. This is the perfect opportunity for him.

That and he needs to surpass Mihawk at some point.

 

[kkck]

At one point Zoro has to prove himself to be above the strongest YC1. This is the perfect opportunity for him.

That and he needs to surpass Mihawk at some point.

Definitely. Though regardless of whether zoro accomplishes that in this arc or not, I would maintain that up to this point zoro has not been built up for that. Zoro has literally zero feats to warrant such a development. With luffy the whole thing was rushed, as if oda came up with the plot while high on 1000 lines of cocaine, but there is a very clear progression from doflamingo to cracker to katakuri... Meanwhile as I said zoro's feats amount of pica, who is at best at the low end of yonko commanders, and killer who at least does not appear to be at any YC tier. Oda can of course do whatever he wants but if zoro or sanji go take out a calamity then the two of them skipped everything pretty much low and middle tier YC in their strength progression.

 

[Ramen]

Definitely. Though regardless of whether zoro accomplishes that in this arc or not, I would maintain that up to this point zoro has not been built up for that. Zoro has literally zero feats to warrant such a development. With luffy the whole thing was rushed, as if oda came up with the plot while high on 1000 lines of cocaine, but there is a very clear progression from doflamingo to cracker to katakuri... Meanwhile as I said zoro's feats amount of pica, who is at best at the low end of yonko commanders, and killer who at least does not appear to be at any YC tier. Oda can of course do whatever he wants but if zoro or sanji go take out a calamity then the two of them skipped everything pretty much low and middle tier YC in their strength progression.

See this is a major arc in the series with a bunch of strong characters. That's why I see it as the perfect opportunity.

Since it's been announced OP will enter the final saga, there isn't much time for Zoro to train his way up the ladder. Oda made some mistakes. He has to deal with them.

 

[nik87]

Oda can of course do whatever he wants but if zoro or sanji go take out a calamity then the two of them skipped everything pretty much low and middle tier YC in their strength progression.

He has placed obstacles and limits to Sanji's power several times, such as Vergo and Doflamingo and also paired him with Daifuku who he couldn't best, then there is also the fiasko against PageOne... During training his hardest obstacle could have been Ivankov himself in the end and prior to that the 98 okamas...

Zoro doesnt have any limiter put on his power, he has good feats against Admiral Fujitora, the performance of Pica's golem doesnt change whether Pica is fodder or Yonko, his training had no one else than Mihawk as his opposition, he took out a fellow Supernova rather easily while being injured...

I dont think that Zoro is skipping any tiers in his strength progression, he is already above those low and middle tier YCs, likely above high tier YCs like YC1s.
Zoro is a different character, he is designed to be strong and to win, he isnt Luffy who loses basically every second arc, Zoro isnt the underdog and usually there is some gimmick which prevents him from dominating his opponents and the moment he figures it out, he low diffs his opponents...

 

[thedude]

YC level enemies is basically anything between the 3 calamities and the topo robi (and maybe the numbers). At the moment I would still maintain that zoro or sanji taking on calamities is waaaaaaaay above their current paygrade though. As I have said before, any calamity (or top 3 yonko commander) is a bigger threat than doflamingo and basically nothing we have seen actually justifies or merits that ridiculous jump. Then again luffy did went from doflamingo to cracker/karakuri so in that regard all bets are off at least. Zoro's best feat in the new world remains basically pica... who is maybe and somewhat optimistically on the low end of yonko commanders in general. So taking even a mid tier yonko commander would be a feat for him. For sanji in turn his best feat in the new world is... non existent. fighting and winning against anything with a name would be huge for him. Well, there is the page one bit but the guy is a bit of a joke to begin with. I suppose we can't rule out oda having sanji fight page one after the guy gets his ass handed to him for the eight time or so.

And elaborating on what I ahve said earlier: I think zoro will deal with the samurai from wano. Zoro has a rather deep connection to wano through his village and possibly blood so him dealing with them would make sense.

And perhaps to make this more complete... sanji will deal with the oniwabanshu. Sanji lacks ties to wano but his invisibility is probably a good tool to deal with them.

Granted that neither sanji or zoro will likely deal with all the soldiers, but perhaps with just a few of them or the big names there.

Of course, in this scenario the two would steer clear off yonko executives... which is the sort of disservice oda has consistently handed both his characters and readers. And who knows, oda even has them deal with those forces through his favorite medium... off screen.

I think Doflamingo is firmly in the YC level. Luffy had an easier time with Cracker than against Doflamingo. Katakuri is stronger, but Doflamingo is no pushover in that class of characters I think.

The problem with Zoro and Sanji is we just don't know. I think they will be at that level by arcs end, and if that means they rise above themselves and beat King/Queen, that's great. We've seen it already, Zoro specifically, learning to cut steel vs Mr 1.

 

[kkck]

He has placed obstacles and limits to Sanji's power several times, such as Vergo and Doflamingo and also paired him with Daifuku who he couldn't best, then there is also the fiasko against PageOne... During training his hardest obstacle could have been Ivankov himself in the end and prior to that the 98 okamas...

Zoro doesnt have any limiter put on his power, he has good feats against Admiral Fujitora, the performance of Pica's golem doesnt change whether Pica is fodder or Yonko, his training had no one else than Mihawk as his opposition, he took out a fellow Supernova rather easily while being injured...

I dont think that Zoro is skipping any tiers in his strength progression, he is already above those low and middle tier YCs, likely above high tier YCs like YC1s.
Zoro is a different character, he is designed to be strong and to win, he isnt Luffy who loses basically every second arc, Zoro isnt the underdog and usually there is some gimmick which prevents him from dominating his opponents and the moment he figures it out, he low diffs his opponents...

I meant in terms of who they fight... If we are absurdly optimistics then pika would be about a low tier YC, at the most... But from there to mid tier yonko commanders or top 3 yonko commanders there is a long way. There's a few milestones there which zoro would invariably have skipped if he takes on any calamity. Even luffy at least had the decency of taking on chinjao before moving on to doflamingo.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 11, 2020 ---

I think Doflamingo is firmly in the YC level. Luffy had an easier time with Cracker than against Doflamingo. Katakuri is stronger, but Doflamingo is no pushover in that class of characters I think.

The problem with Zoro and Sanji is we just don't know. I think they will be at that level by arcs end, and if that means they rise above themselves and beat King/Queen, that's great. We've seen it already, Zoro specifically, learning to cut steel vs Mr 1.

Luffy did not have an easier time against cracker than against doflamingo. Doflamingo got basically rag dolled by gear 4 (though he had accumulated damage but still). Meanwhile cracker could handle gear 4 luffy at all ranges for an entire night while nami made his cracker army essentially worthless. Cracker is insanely underestimated in these parts... Cracker is without a doubt a greater threat than doflamingo was.

Zoro cutting mr 1 is not nearly as much a leap as going from pica to mid or top 3 yonko commanders though. realistically speaking the only reason zoro would even begin to have a shot at those tiers is because he more or less breezed against pica and have yet to use his ashura.. but even in that scenario he is still basically skipping a few milestones altogether.

 

[Sheridan Cain]

Yes. A badass like Zoro can't not have CoC.

 

[nik87]

I meant in terms of who they fight... If we are absurdly optimistics then pika would be about a low tier YC, at the most... But from there to mid tier yonko commanders or top 3 yonko commanders there is a long way. There's a few milestones there which zoro would invariably have skipped if he takes on any calamity. Even luffy at least had the decency of taking on chinjao before moving on to doflamingo.

Pica is extremely hard to place in tiers system which has always been flawed...
Pica was all about his DF, the strength of his actual body wasnt relevant and doesnt affect the performance of the stone golem.
Whether the same DF is used by Buggy or by Kaido, a mountain of stone will be a mountain of stone, no different than when Pica is controlling it.

Besides, Zoro told to Pica that he is a whole another tier and that he doesnt stand a chance against him.
The only issue against Pica was going through all that amount of stone.
Zoro had to release a tons of Haki for those mountain slashes and it exhausted him decently. Such amount of DC doesnt come free of charge...

The issue here is that you expect the same trajectory for Zoro that you saw from Luffy, that's flawed way of looking at it.
Zoro doesnt have to go through Chinjao, Doffy, Cracker, Katakuri to fight Kaido, he can directly go to Kaido.
Law and Kidd havent gone through the same either and they will go against Kaido too. Zoro is no different.

Besides, we saw how effective swordsmen are compared to punchers like Luffy, those "hard" fights Luffy had wouldnt be hard for Zoro.
Chinjao is couple of seconds job, one-shot material for Zoro. Cracker wouldnt stand a chance for long since biscuits are no issue for Zoro.
Doffy would probably hide behind his awakening until Zoro rips through it with ISDS or SS or Oni Giri... Law who is significantly inferior to Zoro physically was keeping up with Doffy pretty solidly, if he had Zoro's haki and attack power he could have easily won...

Katakuri wouldnt have an easy time against Zoro's AoE's, Mochi based attacks would be cut apart, Mogura would probably last until his defeat.
When the opposition is Mihawk for 2 years, all these guys look nothing in comparison to that. It is no wonder that Zoro was talking a walk in the park through the New World. We even found out that the reason why he got lost on komainu is because Kaido would have died to Zoro in ch 923...