One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[hokageji]

Area of effect. Something which, incidentally, luffy does not lack at all. The guy could level a mountain if he felt like it....

Thanks.... I feel old not knowing.. but hey, atleast it isnt as dumb as saying Luffy lacks AoE....

@nik87
AoE still doesn't answer how Zoro will be able to cut Katakuri... He can act like a logia even on haki based attacks, we've already seen that. The only way you can hit him is making him lose his cool so his future sight is down, or have an extremely fast attack like snakeman... What does Zoro have that can do that?

 

[King Moe]

If he didnt lack AoEs he wouldnt have a hard time hitting Katakuri...


I dont care whether Orochi is alive or dead, he is fodder regardless of his status.
Luffy was fine after Zoro took him out of harm's way and deflected attacks.
Going by your logic Luffy couldnt do nothing to Apoo, as bright as always.

Post proof of samurai assisting him. He was fighting them alone for several chapters, lol.
Yes, I will compare Kaido to Zoro because dealing with large numbers is impressive but you may be right, maybe I shouldnt compare the one who screams because he got stabbed to Zoro who "Nothing Happened". Zoro looks way better than Kaido lol.

I am sorry to disappoint you but Oda doesnt see him under Luffy, never have, never will.
He will do more to Kaido than Luffy will because Zoro will be the one to take Kaido out.
Luffy is ineffective against Kaido, he will focus on Big Momma instead.

Yes, Zoro is huffing and puffing, he is injured in case you forgot lol.
The bystanders say that ronin(Zoro) is keeping up with boss Kyoshiro.
You say that Kyoshiro bested Zoro, manga says he is keeping up with him, while injured. I will believe the manga.

Kyoshiro does more what 3 captains did together while Zoro rips apart an entire stone mountain, lol.
Are you sure you are arguing against Zoro or you are hyping him without realizing?
If Zoro would have been serious, there would be no Kyoshiro.

Keep watching my fantasy become reality, I am interested to hear your excuses.
I am particularly interested in how you will digest Zoro killing Kaido.
I think your bias and hate towards a character from Japanese drawing is getting to your head.
Too much Zoro is not good for your health. Some people skipped WCI because of Sanji, you should do the same with Wano because of Zoro.
Just a friendly advice, not a must do thing...

He is under Luffy as shown in fight performance especially NW shows, so please stop with that and accept Zoro will always be inferior to Luffy in many different ways. Zoro be facing people more his style like Gifters fodders for example while Luffy and others handle Yonkos .

He recovered already. Nothing stated his injury was affecting him at all and fodder also say Buggy is able to keep up with deep top tiers and Usopp is a 'God'. Does that mean you believe Usopp over Zoro on who get more insight as fodders don't know power level status unlike Oda himself.

Zoro fainted to nerfer and fox and ran from T6H-dreaming-to-be Apoo instead of fighting with him. Also it's flexing with what Luffy, Kidd, and Law was doing, not full power. Enough with that fantasy. Zoro couldn't get past Gifters, so what's your excuse on that despite having Enma XD? Just like you saying 'Zoro will be only one to injure him or solo' him cause that been destroy already as well your imagination Luffy wouldn't want to fight Kaido as he still wants too lol.

Actually some are disgusted by Wano of Zoro's performance given how he is being treated especially since hype tool for many enemies in the arc while Sanji is doing more work than him in both of those arcs. Please stop restorting to S vs Z as we all know Zoro been dehype by Oda when he push him to be hype tool while Luffy and others are push to be more important than him in this arc as proof of latest chapter shows even more.

 

[nik87]

Thanks.... I feel old not knowing.. but hey, atleast it isnt as dumb as saying Luffy lacks AoE....

@nik87
AoE still doesn't answer how Zoro will be able to cut Katakuri... He can act like a logia even on haki based attacks, we've already seen that. The only way you can hit him is making him lose his cool so his future sight is down, or have an extremely fast attack like snakeman... What does Zoro have that can do that?

I already told you, AoEs easily hit Katakuri, he cannot shapeshift through them. One fire fist from pre-TS Ace would easily hit Katakuri if he doesnt move away.
Zoro has AoEs like that too. Ever seen Zoro's Tatsumaki? Or any other instant multi-cut attacks? Luffy doesnt have such, he sends a punch after a punch, that is not AoE...

He is under Luffy as shown in fight performance especially NW shows, so please stop with that and accept Zoro will always be inferior to Luffy in many different ways. Zoro be facing people more his style like Gifters fodders for example while Luffy and others handle Yonkos .

He recovered already. Nothing stated his injury was affecting him at all and fodder also say Buggy is able to keep up with deep top tiers and Usopp is a 'God'. Does that mean you believe Usopp over Zoro on who get more insight as fodders don't know power level status unlike Oda himself.

Zoro fainted to nerfer and fox and ran from T6H-dreaming-to-be Apoo instead of fighting with him. Also it's flexing with what Luffy, Kidd, and Law was doing, not full power. stop with that. Zoro couldn't get past Gifters, so what's your excuse on that despite having Enma XD? Just like you saying 'Zoro will be only one to injure him or solo' him cause that been destroy already as well your imagination Luffy wouldn't want to fight Kaido as he still wants too lol.

Actually some are disgusted by Wano of Zoro's performance given how he is being treated especially since hype tool for many enemies in the arc while Sanji is doing more work than him in both of those arcs. Please stop restorting to S vs Z as we all know Zoro been dehype by Oda when he push him to be hype tool while Luffy and others are push to be more important than him in this arc as proof of latest chapter shows even more.

You have nothing definitive to place Zoro under Luffy. Luffy has shown his best 3 times, Zoro didnt even once. Once both have shown their best then you can try to make some definitive claims. Only after Wano will you be able to see what both characters are capable of. Until then it's just your headcanons...
Bad news for you, Zoro finished with Gifters. Who's next? Kanjuro or Orochi? Cant keep him away from Kaido either way.

I will take the word of those fodder who said that injured Zoro with a sword missing is keeping up with boss Kyoshiro than your headcanons. Thanks tho.
Zoro fainted to hunger, Luffy fainted Apoo, neither are stopped and are fighting a war. Sounds like your petty attempts result in nothing...
He just got past Gifters and hate on him all you want, since the war started he is constantly portrayed with top Supernovas as major figure of the war.

Even had his own badass entrance where he criticized Luffy while Kidd and Killer were freaking out at Zoro.
Quote me where I said Zoro would solo Kaido. Seems like you cant since I asked you several times already.
Doesnt matter if Luffy wants to fight Kaido, Momma wants Luffy for herself.

If they are already disgusted, they will be even more disgusted. Where did Sanji come from? Oda gave him RS so he doesnt have to draw him anymore...
Do you realize that this is Zoro's arc and that he will be the new sword god of Wano? People are gonna look at him like at a god.
"The second Ryuma has already been born." Your hate towards Zoro isnt healthy, especially not in Zoro's arc.
I think this is all a result of WCI, it has spoiled you too much and frustrated you because your fav didnt get a conclusive fight... Blame Oda, not me.

 

[King Moe]

I already told you, AoEs easily hit Katakuri, he cannot shapeshift through them. One fire fist from pre-TS Ace would easily hit Katakuri if he doesnt move away.
Zoro has AoEs like that too. Ever seen Zoro's Tatsumaki? Or any other instant multi-cut attacks? Luffy doesnt have such, he sends a punch after a punch, that is not AoE...


You have nothing definitive to place Zoro under Luffy. Luffy has shown his best 3 times, Zoro didnt even once. Once both have shown their best then you can try to make some definitive claims. Only after Wano will you be able to see what both characters are capable of. Until then it's just your headcanons...
Bad news for you, Zoro finished with Gifters. Who's next? Kanjuro or Orochi? Cant keep him away from Kaido either way.

I will take the word of those fodder who said that injured Zoro with a sword missing is keeping up with boss Kyoshiro than your headcanons. Thanks tho.
Zoro fainted to hunger, Luffy fainted Apoo, neither are stopped and are fighting a war. Sounds like your petty attempts result in nothing...
He just got past Gifters and hate on him all you want, since the war started he is constantly portrayed with top Supernovas as major figure of the war.

Even had his own badass entrance where he criticized Luffy while Kidd and Killer were freaking out at Zoro.
Quote me where I said Zoro would solo Kaido. Seems like you cant since I asked you several times already.
Doesnt matter if Luffy wants to fight Kaido, Momma wants Luffy for herself.

If they are already disgusted, they will be even more disgusted. Where did Sanji come from? Oda gave him RS so he doesnt have to draw him anymore...
Do you realize that this is Zoro's arc and that he will be the new sword god of Wano? People are gonna look at him like at a god.
"The second Ryuma has already been born." Your hate towards Zoro isnt healthy, especially not in Zoro's arc.
I think this is all a result of WCI, it has spoiled you too much and frustrated you because your fav didnt get a conclusive fight... Blame Oda, not me.

Now your going into headcannon territory as there never been a moment where Luffy was at his best that Zoro did him better on his as he shown nothing of that especially he being hype tool for days on this arc, so stop with fantasy on that statement.

Nah, not yet. Got see next chapter, but facing them 3-4 chapters worth isn't good as what happen to 'Enma' will easily past through fodders as doesn't seem to be the case since he need Allies to help him now to advance more though this. Yeah they could be next or T6H who also more his speed as he is not ready if Apoo could get better of him and he wish to be T6H .

Then Usopp beats Zoro without problems then you admit if fodders word are absolute thing and not between characters themselves who visibly show difference in power and Denjiro was acting in that role, not even trying unlike Zoro who couldn't get Orochi despite it all and recover from his injuries. What fainted? Luffy bounce back from attacks after getting knock down as he is Rubber Man unlike Zoro who fainted and was out for few days moment Kamazou got better of him in the tied fight. Nah he didn't get past them at all and your making that up still as we all know Allies help him with fodders, not himself alone. Only thing he is above is keeping himself from having fainting spells again if he prologue himself too much since Apoo got him to his knees with one non-serious strike after all.

When that happen? I never see that and only that they calling Zoro idiot for going in to do a random brawl and getting own later by Apoo with Kidd coming in for the save . Also dude your admitting he will face Kaido in past posts and right now in this one that he go for Kaido. You keep saying Luffy won't touch Kaido which is very illogical after all build-up for Luffy vs Kaido for many arcs now. Keep repeating yourself, but that doesn't mean it be true no matter what you spew.

Nah, more disgusted on Zoro as gave him magic sword and thus no more training for him. Just swing it around and it gives him power unlike RS which require skill of Sanji to use and fight with. Even on display Enma can't get past fodders like Gifters, but RS own easily of T6H, so Idk what you mean by that XD. Only person people are referring to to be similar to that will be Luffy in his take down of Kaido as many see him as beacon of hope overall and don't blame me just because Zoro with Luffy will always be Zoro at bottom to his feats everytime as just reality of situation and give me statement by Oda who said this is 'Zoro's arc' as never he stated that and Sanji got better development in his side than Zoro anyway as well fights as he took on and beaten credible foes unlike former who can't seem to get past guys with Enma like Apoo and Gifters and that is only few I mention other than Hawkins, Kyoshiro, Kamazou, and Gyukimaro who got better of him too even without Enma.

Again accept Luffy > Zoro is always the true canon instead of imagination to try to replace Luffy. Oda knows who he sees as MC and it's not the one who admits that he is under Luffy himself .

 

[nik87]

Now your going into headcannon territory as there never been a moment where Luffy was at his best that Zoro did him better on his as he shown nothing of that especially he being hype tool for days on this arc, so stop with fantasy on that statement.

Nah, not yet. Got see next chapter, but facing them 3-4 chapters worth isn't good as what happen to 'Enma' will easily past through fodders as doesn't seem to be the case since he need Allies to help him now to advance more though this. Yeah they could be next or T6H who also more his speed as he is not ready if Apoo could get better of him and he wish to be T6H .

Then Usopp beats Zoro without problems then you admit if fodders word are absolute thing and not between characters themselves who visibly show difference in power and Denjiro was acting in that role, not even trying unlike Zoro who couldn't get Orochi despite it all and recover from his injuries. What fainted? Luffy bounce back from attacks after getting knock down as he is Rubber Man unlike Zoro who fainted and was out for few days moment Kamazou got better of him in the tied fight. Nah he didn't get past them at all and your making that up still as we all know Allies help him with fodders, not himself alone. Only thing he is above is keeping himself from having fainting spells again if he prologue himself too much since Apoo got him to his knees with one non-serious strike after all.

When that happen? I never see that and only that they calling Zoro idiot for going in to do a random brawl and getting own later by Apoo with Kidd coming in for the save . Also dude your admitting he will face Kaido in past posts and right now in this one that he go for Kaido. You keep saying Luffy won't touch Kaido which is very illogical after all build-up for Luffy vs Kaido for many arcs now. Keep repeating yourself, but that doesn't mean it be true no matter what you spew.

Nah, more disgusted on Zoro as gave him magic sword and thus no more training for him. Just swing it around and it gives him power unlike RS which require skill of Sanji to use and fight with. Even on display Enma can't get past fodders like Gifters, but RS own easily of T6H, so Idk what you mean by that XD. Only person people are referring to to be similar to that will be Luffy in his take down of Kaido as many see him as beacon of hope overall and don't blame me just because Zoro with Luffy will always be Zoro at bottom to his feats everytime as just reality of situation and give me statement by Oda who said this is 'Zoro's arc' as never he stated that and Sanji got better development in his side than Zoro anyway as well fights as he took on and beaten credible foes unlike former who can't seem to get past guys with Enma like Apoo and Gifters and that is only few I mention other than Hawkins, Kyoshiro, Kamazou, and Gyukimaro who got better of him too even without Enma.

Again accept Luffy > Zoro is always the true canon instead of imagination to try to replace Luffy. Oda knows who he sees as MC and it's not the one who admits that he is under Luffy himself .

Dont understand what you are even trying to say in first sentence. C
Just in case, read again what my argument was since you seem to have understood something entirely else...
Enma has always been an irrelevant regular sword. Your fault for buying into false hype...

Apoo is too strong for Zoro, Brook will take care of him. Next.
I dont admit anything, I just follow what the manga said instead of your headcanons.
Your downplaying cant stop Zoro, he is fighting as we speak so all your efforts did nothing...

I admit now too that he will face Kaido and he will go after him, you still didnt quote me where I said that he will solo him. Or can you?
Luffy will touch Kaido but after he is done with Momma. She is his priority now. She came because of him so he has to deal with her.
I dont have to repeat myself, I already know what will happen, more or less. Oda's power scaling is easy stuff once you figure it out.

You have to show proof where in this war, "Zoro is swinging Enma and it giving him power". Let me stop you right away, you cant. Next.
RS easily own F6? Another delusion?
Blame Oda for portraying Zoro as central figure with other Supernovas...

Oda never said this is Zoro's arc, I said it. Sanji is irrelevant, not a topic to discuss Sanji anyway, he can stay invisible.
As I said, you have nothing definitive to place Luffy above Zoro aside from your headcanons. Enjoy the rest of Wano.

 

[kkck]

If he didnt lack AoEs he wouldnt have a hard time hitting Katakuri...

Well, take luffy vs hodi for instance. Luffy could have absolutely trashed noah, which is gigantic, in moments. Luffy can basically cause hundreds of meters worth of destruction near instantly if he wants to. The issue is simple: AoE is not really a relevant metric in this sense. And it alone is not enough to guarantee a hit on someone, let alone katakuri. As even if someone uses AoE, it can be dodged...

 

[King Moe]

Dont understand what you are even trying to say in first sentence. Can you try that in grammatically correct English?
Just in case, read again what my argument was since you seem to have understood something entirely else...
Enma has always been an irrelevant regular sword. Your fault for buying into false hype...

Apoo is too strong for Zoro, Brook will take care of him. Next.
I dont admit anything, I just follow what the manga said instead of your headcanons.
Your downplaying cant stop Zoro, he is fighting as we speak so all your efforts did nothing...

I admit now too that he will face Kaido and he will go after him, you still didnt quote me where I said that he will solo him. Or can you?
Luffy will touch Kaido but after he is done with Momma. She is his priority now. She came because of him so he has to deal with her.
I dont have to repeat myself, I already know what will happen, more or less. Oda's power scaling is easy stuff once you figure it out.

You have to show proof where in this war, "Zoro is swinging Enma and it giving him power". Let me stop you right away, you cant. Next.
RS easily own F6? Another delusion?
Blame Oda for portraying Zoro as central figure with other Supernovas...

Oda never said this is Zoro's arc, I said it. Sanji is irrelevant, not a topic to discuss Sanji anyway, he can stay invisible.
As I said, you have nothing definitive to place Luffy above Zoro aside from your headcanons. Enjoy the rest of Wano.

Again stop going low in insulting someone's grammar cause you got nothing to back on your arguments. Enough with imagination and admit that Luffy > Zoro is an factual thing since start of the series.

None of what you stated in next sentences make any sense and seems more in denial of talk than thoughtful debate there.

You stating Luffy will get Big Mom and Zoro will get Kaido in post above. Hence your pushing Zoro will deal with himself and pretending Luffy want nothing to do with him. Stop with headcannon nature and admit when you destroy your own argument when your trying to push Zoro will take on someone himself or even be involve in the fight when Luffy like to take care of his own enemies on his end. Stop pushing Zoro his own fights and accept reality Zoro take backseat when it involves Luffy.

He was using it in Gifters when he was facing them. Where is your proof of Enma feats beating someone credible? Haven't happen neither on Apoo nore Gifters, so why hasn't he able to get past them despite having Enma around. Yeah RS owned T6H, where has Enma beaten someone credible? Give panel of where Zoro use it on beating one noteworthy and listen well....Fodders don't count.

Your saying Zoro will outshine Luffy and it is his arc in previous posts. Dude, stop pretending you haven't said those things above and bringing Sanji in argument cause you got nothing to support your evidence at all. Luffy is always above Zoro and he doesn't have shown much to be above Sanji in same arc as he defeated someone credible unlike Zoro who have nothing of anyone noteworthy without tying with them to fainting if you want go with that.

 

[nik87]

Well, take luffy vs hodi for instance. Luffy could have absolutely trashed noah, which is gigantic, in moments. Luffy can basically cause hundreds of meters worth of destruction near instantly if he wants to. The issue is simple: AoE is not really a relevant metric in this sense. And it alone is not enough to guarantee a hit on someone, let alone katakuri. As even if someone is AoE, it can be dodged...

Luffy hitting Noah is scene with countless hits after hits, that is not AoE, that is hit after a hit, Katakuri easily dodges that.
Zoro's Tatsumaki is a single, "neverending", large area hit.
Yes it can be dodged but not shaped-shiffted around, he has to get away from it.

That's the difference between Luffy and people who actually have proper AoEs.
As I said, Luffy's opponents look good because Luffy is bad.
You would be calling those opponents fodder if Zoro was the one who took them on, like every other opponent Zoro takes on...

That is the curse of having Zoro as your opponent, you get downplayed into fodder...
However, even like that, Katakuri would look better if his opponent was Zoro because Oda wouldnt need tons of plot armor he needed for Luffy nor the PIS of dropping his own weapon. That shit would never have happened against Zoro.

Besides, judging by everything, Katakuri will probably end up as the least impressive among the YC1...
And if my suspicions are true, Zoro is already considerably above YC1, ever since Sabaody reunion.
Wano will show whether I am right or not.

Again stop going low in insulting someone's grammar cause you got nothing to back on your arguments. Enough with imagination and admit that Luffy > Zoro is an factual thing since start of the series.

None of what you stated in next sentences make any sense and seems more in denial of talk than thoughtful debate there.

You stating Luffy will get Big Mom and Zoro will get Kaido in post above. Hence your pushing Zoro will deal with himself and pretending Luffy want nothing to do with him. Stop with headcannon nature and admit when you destroy your own argument when your trying to push Zoro will take on someone himself or even be involve in the fight when Luffy like to take care of his own enemies on his end. Stop pushing Zoro his own fights and accept reality Zoro take backseat when it involves Luffy.

He was using it in Gifters when he was facing them. Where is your proof of Enma feats beating someone credible? Haven't happen neither on Apoo nore Gifters, so why hasn't he able to get past them despite having Enma around. Yeah RS owned T6H, where has Enma beaten someone credible? Give panel of where Zoro use it on beating one noteworthy and listen well....Fodders don't count.

Your saying Zoro will outshine Luffy and it is his arc in previous posts. Dude, stop pretending you haven't said those things above and bringing Sanji in argument cause you got nothing to support your evidence at all. Luffy is always above Zoro and he doesn't have shown much to be above Sanji in same arc as he defeated someone credible unlike Zoro who have nothing of anyone noteworthy without tying with them to fainting if you want go with that.

Your grammar being bad isnt an insult, it is a fact.
I will admit that Luffy>Zoro when Oda makes Luffy defeat Zoro, the only time he paired them against each other, he didnt want to fulfill your wish.
It will make sense soon once you see the full range of Zoro's capabilities. You wont have to wait much longer, a year at most.

Yes, I said Luffy will get Big Mom while Zoro will get Kaido, I never said they would do it solo, that's what you assumed. Dont blame me for it.
Luffy isnt taking care of nobody by himself in this arc, you still didnt realize it...
Zoro in the backseat? Oda disagrees with you and places Zoro in the front row.

So what if he was using it? Where is the magical power you spoke of? What is with your Enma obsession? You still buying into its false hype?
Where did RS own F6? Post panels. You are delusional, panels of Enma beating someone credible? Have you gone completely mad or what?
Yes Zoro will outshine Luffy in this arc and I still miss the quote where I said that Zoro would solo Kaido. I dont care about Sanji, you can stop mentioning him.
Show me proof of Luffy being above Zoro, can you?

 

[hokageji]

I already told you, AoEs easily hit Katakuri, he cannot shapeshift through them. One fire fist from pre-TS Ace would easily hit Katakuri if he doesnt move away.
Zoro has AoEs like that too. Ever seen Zoro's Tatsumaki? Or any other instant multi-cut attacks? Luffy doesnt have such, he sends a punch after a punch, that is not AoE...

OK, Tatsumaki, or the hurricane attacks... sure, that should be enough to take down Katakuri and rain mochi...... can even make a dreamworks movie going.....

If Katakuri doesn't use haki, doesnt move and stands only in one place, sure.... but isnt such a fast enough attack to take down Katakuri

 

[nik87]

OK, Tatsumaki, or the hurricane attacks... sure, that should be enough to take down Katakuri and rain mochi...... can even make a dreamworks movie going.....
If Katakuri doesn't use haki, doesnt move and stands only in one place, sure.... but isnt such a fast enough attack to take down Katakuri

You are underestimating Zoro's AoEs... Not sure if you realize how big his attacks are.
Katakuri cant even get close to Zoro when he uses Tatsumaki.

You saw what ISDS did to a mountain? It would rip apart the entire Mirror World and Katakuri would die as collateral damage...
Katakuri is overrated, like all of Luffy's opponents.

 

[kkck]

Luffy hitting Noah is scene with countless hits after hits, that is not AoE, that is hit after a hit, Katakuri easily dodges that.
Zoro's Tatsumaki is a single, "neverending", large area hit.
Yes it can be dodged but not shaped-shiffted around, he has to get away from it.

That's the difference between Luffy and people who actually have proper AoEs.
As I said, Luffy's opponents look good because Luffy is bad.
You would be calling those opponents fodder if Zoro was the one who took them on, like every other opponent Zoro takes on...

That is the curse of having Zoro as your opponent, you get downplayed into fodder...
However, even like that, Katakuri would look better if his opponent was Zoro because Oda wouldnt need tons of plot armor he needed for Luffy nor the PIS of dropping his own weapon. That shit would never have happened against Zoro.

Besides, judging by everything, Katakuri will probably end up as the least impressive among the YC1...
And if my suspicions are true, Zoro is already considerably above YC1, ever since Sabaody reunion.
Wano will show whether I am right or not.

Why can't it be shape shifted around? Observation haki has been used to dodge seemingly random stuff before, there is literally no reason why katakuri would be unable to simply shape shift around it. It wouldn't be much different from when he dodged luffy's gear 2 attacks. The main difference being that slashes would come from the side rather than the front... Add to that, tatsumaki isn't that powerful a technique (at least as used in part 2) and it doesn't cover that much of an area. It's big, sure, but for the most part it seems smaller than luffy's gear 3 arm (which back at fishman island dwarfed shirahoshi).....

And why is something being hits after hits suddenly not AoE? It's beyond absurd to suggest a 20 meter or bigger fist that can be used in a barrage is not real AoE. Let alone the fact that luffy's fist can stretch potentially hundreds of meters... I suppose that if AoE is just going to mean whatever you want it to mean then you can't be wrong on this though.

I agree in that katakuri will probably be the least impressive of YC1... but he would still absolutely wreck zoro as we have seen him now. It'd be even worst than what he did to luffy before luffy got his upgraded observation haki. Zoro has simply not evidenced anything that would actually work against katakuri.

 

[nik87]

Why can't it be shape shifted around? Observation haki has been used to dodge seemingly random stuff before, there is literally no reason why katakuri would be unable to simply shape shift around it. It wouldn't be much different from when he dodged luffy's gear 2 attacks. The main difference being that slashes would come from the side rather than the front... Add to that, tatsumaki isn't that powerful a technique (at least as used in part 2) and it doesn't cover that much of an area. It's big, sure, but for the most part it seems smaller than luffy's gear 3 arm.....

And why is something being hits after hits suddenly not AoE? It's beyond absurd to suggest a 20 meter or bigger fist that can be used in a barrage is not real AoE. Let alone the fact that luffy's fist can stretch potentially hundreds of meters... I suppose that if AoE is just going to mean whatever you want it to mean then you can't be wrong on this though.

I agree in that katakuri will probably be the least impressive of YC1... but he would still absolutely wreck zoro as we have seen him now. It'd be even worst than what he did to luffy before luffy got his upgraded observation haki. Zoro has simply not evidenced anything that would actually work against katakuri.

In the picture above your post, point out the safe space in the twisted where Katakuri will shapeshift to.
G2 attacks have no AoEs... It is made of small diameter hits after hits...
Luffy's larges AoE is G3 gigant pistol/GM, Katakuri cant dodge it and countered it instead. He cant shape shift around things far bigger than his body...

Tatsumaki is dicing thick steel shields like butter and it is done without Zoro covering his swords in Hardening which boosts his attacks several times...
Look at the picture above your post exactly how big it is, pre TS even. We have no idea how big it would be with Haki added.

Because Katakuri can deal with small hits one after another, he cant deal with instant big hits, he cant shapeshift G3.
He spends time doing those "AoEs", while real AoEs are just fire it off and do something else, Luffy doesnt have that.
Also, his G3 lacks power, even for Doflamingo who is ravaged by Gamma Knife. Without G4 Luffy is not ready for NW.

Fact is that Katakuri didnt ever shapeshift around G3, every time he did something else, it's bigger than his body.
And it's not hard to realize that Zoro's slashing attacks are far more dangerous for Katakuri than Luffy's G3...
You dont know how Zoro is now, there is no ceiling on his power so Katakuri "absolutely wrecking Zoro" is just a wild guess.
Where will Katakuri run to if Zoro uses ISDS are rips entire Mirror World apart? There is no safe space for him, he would die from that alone...

The way Zoro is now, if my guess is right, is that he is very close to Mihawk and Shanks already.
I dont see a scenario that will make him a lot stronger than he already is.
If you ask me, Zoro has plenty of AoE that can kill off Katakuri without Zoro breaking a sweat.

 

[King Moe]

Luffy hitting Noah is scene with countless hits after hits, that is not AoE, that is hit after a hit, Katakuri easily dodges that.
Zoro's Tatsumaki is a single, "neverending", large area hit.
Yes it can be dodged but not shaped-shiffted around, he has to get away from it.

That's the difference between Luffy and people who actually have proper AoEs.
As I said, Luffy's opponents look good because Luffy is bad.
You would be calling those opponents fodder if Zoro was the one who took them on, like every other opponent Zoro takes on...

That is the curse of having Zoro as your opponent, you get downplayed into fodder...
However, even like that, Katakuri would look better if his opponent was Zoro because Oda wouldnt need tons of plot armor he needed for Luffy nor the PIS of dropping his own weapon. That shit would never have happened against Zoro.

Besides, judging by everything, Katakuri will probably end up as the least impressive among the YC1...
And if my suspicions are true, Zoro is already considerably above YC1, ever since Sabaody reunion.
Wano will show whether I am right or not.



Your grammar being bad isnt an insult, it is a fact.
I will admit that Luffy>Zoro when Oda makes Luffy defeat Zoro, the only time he paired them against each other, he didnt want to fulfill your wish.
It will make sense soon once you see the full range of Zoro's capabilities. You wont have to wait much longer, a year at most.

Yes, I said Luffy will get Big Mom while Zoro will get Kaido, I never said they would do it solo, that's what you assumed. Dont blame me for it.
Luffy isnt taking care of nobody by himself in this arc, you still didnt realize it...
Zoro in the backseat? Oda disagrees with you and places Zoro in the front row.

So what if he was using it? Where is the magical power you spoke of? What is with your Enma obsession? You still buying into its false hype?
Where did RS own F6? Post panels. You are delusional, panels of Enma beating someone credible? Have you gone completely mad or what?
Yes Zoro will outshine Luffy in this arc and I still miss the quote where I said that Zoro would solo Kaido. I dont care about Sanji, you can stop mentioning him.
Show me proof of Luffy being above Zoro, can you?

Nah, it's poor attempt to escape what you can't backup in your talk at all. Lol, pretty sure Luffy can at this point as he beaten enemies that Zoro won't be able to handle himself. You talking about Whiskey Peak fight? Been many years since then and it's permanent factor Luffy is stronger than Zoro by all means especially in that fight Luffy got more hits in then Zoro even couldn't cut him at all xD. Your headcannon ego got be big if you can't even admit Luffy is stronger between them as it always been that state that even Oda stated in interviews and databooks.

You did implied that as you expect Zoro to take on Kaido himself with no mention of others, so please stop lying about what you said and stop thinking Luffy will let his subordinate fight his own battles when he never allowed it once in any of his fights even when he was struggling. Luffy vs Kaido is going to happen while Zoro get enemies that fit his power which are fodders from how it looks. At best could be T6H, but again Idk after what Apoo got better of him. Just saying given how he struggling with them and yeah he will always take his backseat to Luffy. That is always a fact on who they fought with even to NW shows it.

Enma cut down something larger than he intended so it does have a mind of it's own. All this prove with his recent stuff he has not control it as much many said if Apoo and Gifters can stand in his way like that. So you can't provide any evidence Enma could solo credible foe? Again all your imagination, not factual thing. Nah, just in your delusions thinking that as Luffy be one to defeat Kaido from his side and always take main antagonist each time. Provide evidence Zoro beating someone Luffy couldn't handle before as I have not seen anywhere Luffy ask Zoro for help in beating someone nor Zoro beating major antagonists like him. You have nothing to back this up and never will back this up as Oda see Luffy to be strongest overall not just in the crew, but series as well.

 

[nik87]

Nah, it's poor attempt to escape what you can't backup in your talk at all. Lol, pretty sure Luffy can at this point as he beaten enemies that Zoro won't be able to handle himself. You talking about Whiskey Peak fight? Been many years since then and it's permanent factor Luffy is stronger than Zoro by all means especially in that fight Luffy got more hits in then Zoro even couldn't cut him at all xD. Your headcannon ego got be big if you can't even admit Luffy is stronger between them as it always been that state that even Oda stated in interviews and databooks.

You did implied that as you expect Zoro to take on Kaido himself with no mention of others, so please stop lying about what you said and stop thinking Luffy will let his subordinate fight his own battles when he never allowed it once in any of his fights even when he was struggling. Luffy vs Kaido is going to happen while Zoro get enemies that fit his power which are fodders from how it looks. At best could be T6H, but again Idk after what Apoo got better of him. Just saying given how he struggling with them and yeah he will always take his backseat to Luffy. That is always a fact on who they fought with even to NW shows it.

Enma cut down something larger than he intended so it does have a mind of it's own. All this prove with his recent stuff he has not control it as much many said if Apoo and Gifters can stand in his way like that. So you can't provide any evidence Enma could solo credible foe? Again all your imagination, not factual thing. Nah, just in your delusions thinking that as Luffy be one to defeat Kaido from his side and always take main antagonist each time. Provide evidence Zoro beating someone Luffy couldn't handle before as I have not seen anywhere Luffy ask Zoro for help in beating someone nor Zoro beating major antagonists like him. You have nothing to back this up and never will back this up as Oda see Luffy to be strongest overall not just in the crew, but series as well.

Yes, WP because WP is only time when author himself has touched on the topic of Zoro vs Luffy, everything else is headcanon.
We will see once Wano has concluded and their limits shown, who stands where. There is 0 reason to admit Luffy being stronger when Scabbards do more damage to Kaido that G4 Luffy and the boss of Scabbards was shitting himself when he saw Zoro ripping stone mountain...
Show me Oda stating that in interviews and databooks, if you can that is. I know that you cant but try regardless.

What you concluded from my statements is your problem, I said plenty of times that nobody can solo Kaido. Keep your headcanons in check.
Luffy will not let Zoro anything, Zoro doesnt need to ask his permission for anything. He will have to rely on Zoro fighting his battle since he himself is not effective vs Kaido. I look forward to those fodder opponents for Zoro. Zoro should get the same backseat like in Wano more often.

Enma has a mind of its own only in the fantasy of yours. There is no power buff that you are speaking of. Neither Apoo nor Gifters could keep him away from going to Kaido. What else you got? Again the delusions with Enma soloing credible foe? You lost it... What do you want to bet that it will not be Luffy to defeat Kaido and it will be Zoro instead? Looks like you are sure, a small bet shouldnt be something that would scare you?

 

[kkck]

In the picture above your post, point out the safe space in the twisted where Katakuri will shapeshift to.
G2 attacks have no AoEs... It is made of small diameter hits after hits...
Luffy's larges AoE is G3 gigant pistol/GM, Katakuri cant dodge it and countered it instead. He cant shape shift around things far bigger than his body...

Tatsumaki is dicing thick steel shields like butter and it is done without Zoro covering his swords in Hardening which boosts his attacks several times...
Look at the picture above your post exactly how big it is, pre TS even. We have no idea how big it would be with Haki added.

Because Katakuri can deal with small hits one after another, he cant deal with instant big hits, he cant shapeshift G3.
He spends time doing those "AoEs", while real AoEs are just fire it off and do something else, Luffy doesnt have that.
Also, his G3 lacks power, even for Doflamingo who is ravaged by Gamma Knife. Without G4 Luffy is not ready for NW.

Fact is that Katakuri didnt ever shapeshift around G3, every time he did something else, it's bigger than his body.
And it's not hard to realize that Zoro's slashing attacks are far more dangerous for Katakuri than Luffy's G3...
You dont know how Zoro is now, there is no ceiling on his power so Katakuri "absolutely wrecking Zoro" is just a wild guess.
Where will Katakuri run to if Zoro uses ISDS are rips entire Mirror World apart? There is no safe space for him, he would die from that alone...

The way Zoro is now, if my guess is right, is that he is very close to Mihawk and Shanks already.
I dont see a scenario that will make him a lot stronger than he already is.
If you ask me, Zoro has plenty of AoE that can kill off Katakuri without Zoro breaking a sweat.

And... as I said, there is no reason katakuri won't be able to shapeshift around those slashes. It's not that much different from being hit with a barrage of potentially hundreds of near instant gear 2 fists.

Sure, but my point was that luffy had AoE attacks. So... we are in agreement? And just because an attack is a barrage doesn't mean its not AoE.

But.... why even bother comparing katakuri to mere steel shields? Katakuri can adjust his own toughness and has incredibly potent haki.

And sure, an attack that covers a large enough area won't be something katakuri can necessarily morph around. But... that isn't something which actually benefits zoro. Zoro has decent AoE of course, and probably even longer range than luffy.... BUT he is limited to slashes. A slash in this series can be extremely long but it's invariably incredibly thin. Since it's a slash made by a sword. In that sense even by your logic zoro's slashes are easier to morph around than the vast majority of luffy's arsenal. Zoro does not actually have anything that hits like gear 3 that would actually force katakuri to get out of the way. So in the end for zoro to hit katakuri he simply needs to deal with katakuri's speed and observation haki like.... oh wow, literally everyone else.

 

[Pirate Queen]

How is this not an AoE attack? Because it wasn't a single punch? It was one attack.

Elephant Gatling is 1 attack...

 

[Shasha23]

Why can't it be shape shifted around? Observation haki has been used to dodge seemingly random stuff before, there is literally no reason why katakuri would be unable to simply shape shift around it. It wouldn't be much different from when he dodged luffy's gear 2 attacks. The main difference being that slashes would come from the side rather than the front... Add to that, tatsumaki isn't that powerful a technique (at least as used in part 2) and it doesn't cover that much of an area. It's big, sure, but for the most part it seems smaller than luffy's gear 3 arm (which back at fishman island dwarfed shirahoshi).....

And why is something being hits after hits suddenly not AoE? It's beyond absurd to suggest a 20 meter or bigger fist that can be used in a barrage is not real AoE. Let alone the fact that luffy's fist can stretch potentially hundreds of meters... I suppose that if AoE is just going to mean whatever you want it to mean then you can't be wrong on this though.

I agree in that katakuri will probably be the least impressive of YC1... but he would still absolutely wreck zoro as we have seen him now. It'd be even worst than what he did to luffy before luffy got his upgraded observation haki. Zoro has simply not evidenced anything that would actually work against katakuri.

Katakuri can't shapeshift out of attacks bigger than his body!
When Luffy used G3 he either countered with his own equivalent attacks or he dodged!
Luffy does not have large AoE attacks because his fruit does not give him such attacks, while on the other hand Zoro does, majority of Zoro's attacks are large AoE attacks that Katakuri would either have to dodge or block, but wont be able to shape shift out off since those attacks will be bigger than him, but whether Zoro's AoE attacks can beat Katakuri or not is something different.

Zoro has shown time and time again that his attack power is above Luffy while Luffy has attack speed, its always been that way from begining and i dont see anything that has changed since.

Also i think you are confused about something, an AoE attack is a single attack not multiple hits, if multiple hits were AoE then everyone would have it.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 12, 2020 ---

And... as I said, there is no reason katakuri won't be able to shapeshift around those slashes. It's not that much different from being hit with a barrage of potentially hundreds of near instant gear 2 fists.

We already saw that Katakuri cant do that from attacks bigger than him, a barrage of fists are not AoE attacks, you already saw that Katakuri cant shapeshift out of G3 but he could from G2 since G2 attacks are NOT bigger than him.

 

[nik87]

And... as I said, there is no reason katakuri won't be able to shapeshift around those slashes. It's not that much different from being hit with a barrage of potentially hundreds of near instant gear 2 fists.

Sure, but my point was that luffy had AoE attacks. So... we are in agreement? And just because an attack is a barrage doesn't mean its not AoE.

But.... why even bother comparing katakuri to mere steel shields? Katakuri can adjust his own toughness and has incredibly potent haki.

And sure, an attack that covers a large enough area won't be something katakuri can necessarily morph around. But... that isn't something which actually benefits zoro. Zoro has decent AoE of course, and probably even longer range than luffy.... BUT he is limited to slashes. A slash in this series can be extremely long but it's invariably incredibly thin. Since it's a slash made by a sword. In that sense even by your logic zoro's slashes are easier to morph around than the vast majority of luffy's arsenal. Zoro does not actually have anything that hits like gear 3 that would actually force katakuri to get out of the way. So in the end for zoro to hit katakuri he simply needs to deal with katakuri's speed and observation haki like.... oh wow, literally everyone else.

I see no reason why he would be able to shapeshift around those slashes either.
It is different, ISDS rips through entire mountain, G2 hits are like mosquito bites.
He couldnt shapeshift G3, no way he is shapeshifting Tatsumaki either, you are overestimating him.

As long as he is busy attacking he can target large areas with multiple hits, anyone can do that, that is not a single firing of AoE ability...
If you want to call his ability AoE, the best you get is Giant Pistol or Grizzly Magnum or Gaint Battle Axe, that's the closest Luffy comes to AoE.

Because mochi is nowhere close to hard as steel is so it depends on Katakuri's haki alone and that wont stop Zoro's slashes.
He can cut through far harder things, afaik, "there is nothing he cannot cut".
Even Scabbards are cutting through Kaido while having nowhere comparable cutting power to Zoro's.

Why doesnt it benefit to Zoro? Being limited to slashes is a bad thing? How is Tatsumaki easy to morph around when there is nowhere to morph to?
He does, his Pound Ho attack have large diameter but Tatsumaki is by far the largest.
Does everyone else have Asura like Zoro has? A 360° degree vision and 9 swords to defend with? I didnt think so.
Also, while Zoro's slashes appear to be thin, they arent. Look how much surface they rip off where they go through, check out Nigiri Toro Samon.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Area of effect (or AoE) is a term used in many role-playing and strategy games to describe attacks or spells that can affect multiple targets within a specified area*.

 

[kkck]

Tatsumaki is just a bunch of slashes flying around a given area.... Katakuri doesn't have doesn't have to dodge the whole thing, just the slashes coming his way. It's more similar to gear 2 than 3 in that regard.