One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

goldb

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Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

  • For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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  • We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

  1. Shanks v Mihawk
  2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
  3. Zoro > Luffy
  4. Zoro v Sanji
  5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
  6. Mihawk's rank within the story
  7. Law having CoC currently.
  8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

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Nie Li

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They admitted it, Oda and Animators hate Sanji.
<<Sanji will never look as good as he did before>> pre-timskip days of Sanji were his peak.
On one hand I like Zoro getting more attention than him now that everyone in the crew in general is getting less attention than pre-ts. If there's less to share between them, at least let my best boy marimo get a fair share of it.

On the other hand that sucks hard. Scenes like "I'm an the Hunter" made the arcs much more exciting.
 

Rob Gucci

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On one hand I like Zoro getting more attention than him now that everyone in the crew in general is getting less attention than pre-ts. If there's less to share between them, at least let my best boy marimo get a fair share of it.

On the other hand that sucks hard. Scenes like "I'm an the Hunter" made the arcs much more exciting.
Oda wants to make Zoro as the second main character, not just vice captain but the second captain. Oda really loves Zoro! I wonder why didn't he make him the main character in first place?
 

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Technically, Luffy's aiming to be the Pirate King, and they would need to surpass the general Yonkou level to do that. This would be the arc to place them on the level of a Yonkou crew.

Zoro's end goal is implied to be Yonkou tier, so now would be a good time for him to hit YC1. Sanji's EoS fight is up in the air (hopefully an Admiral), but either way, he'll be ready after fighting King or Queen.
But Roger was never implied to be stronger than the other top tiers. His fight with Whitebeard is a tie, both are stronger than Oden and Rayleigh but Oden and Rayleigh are also subordinates.

The power hierarchy back then isn't much different from what it is like now. If anything, Xebec is a step above the others.

There is no world in which Oda could make Sanji beat an Admiral. The Admiral's and Yonko are the same, that's as strong as you can get and as such reserved for Luffy alone. Beating an Admiral would require a 20 chapter focus, that's not going to happen as a 1v1 for Sanji or any other Strawhat for that matter.

The way I see it, many people look too much at the "Dragon Ball" concept of powerlevels when evaluating Shonen, because One Piece doesn't really work like that.

Goku, the protagonist of Dragon Ball, always wins by being the strongest. If the enemy is stronger, Goku gets a new power-up or move to succeed.

Luffy, the protagonist of One Piece... well he (almost) never wins by being the strongest. It always comes down to circumstances.

I discount Arlong since here it was LUffy's own stupidity, but afterwards:

He lost against Crocodile once and was saved by Robin, lost again even after discovering the weakness and was saved by luck, and then only beat Crocodile after his plans were ruined anyways.

Enel got hit by a Reject Dial before, which otherwise defeated Shura in one blow and created a giant hole in the Giant Jack. During the fight, Enel threw Luffy offboard after encasing his arm in gold, then proceeded to destroy Skypea, which would have killed everyone, including Luffy. Luffy then needed help from Zoro, Wiper and Nami to move up the Giant Jack to defeat Enel.

You can discount Lucci as an exception, but this was a villain specifically designed as a measurement stick, as Luffy's equal with the whole Doriki stuff and such.

Luffy had 100 shadows infused into him to defeat Oars.

Luffy required help from Shirahoshi and the Fishman to defeat Hody Jones. Luffy has a disability here, after all.

Luffy required help from Law and the Colliseum Gladiators to defeat Doflamingo.

Luffy had help from Brulee (lol) against Katakuri and in the end only won via special circumstances and deep mental stuff inside Katakuri.

The fight of Luffy vs Katakuri is also a good example of how power-ups in One Piece work. They are always mentioned in the text or explicit artwork and happen at natural points in the story, but they are not Super Sayan. Luffy powered up his CoO during the fight but it was still nowhere near enough to defeat Katakuri. It only pushed him one step ahead of were he previously was. He was "weaker than Doflamingo" before and became "weaker than Katakuri" during the fight.

Now he trained his CoA and as such is one step ahead of were he previously was, he is "weaker than Kaido" now.

The Yonko and Admirals are the max level, they are the top end, as strong as you can get. Luffy will be at that level at the end of the story, during the final arc, but this is only the penultimate arc, meaning he will defeat Kaido via circumstances as usual and it is already shaping up like this with the Scabbards already fighting with Kaido and the other Supernova set up as well.

If Luffy will be at that level at the end, that means all of his subordinates will have to fall below. That's why I think Sanji's endgame is a Titanic Captain from the Blackbeard Pirates, and that will be true for all other Strawhats except for Zoro, who might face Mihawk.

It all makes a lot of sense like this, the Strawhats become an endgame pirate crew in line with the others at the end. Becoming Pirate King is not a feat of strenght, it is an entirely special feat and Luffy becomes Pirate King because that is the plot, he is the special one that pulls up special things as he is the main character of this story, and in the end it is a story about being special and not about being the strongest. The way things shape up, Luffy will also defeat the WG not because he is the strongest, but because he has the ability to gather friends and allies from everywhere.
They admitted it, Oda and Animators hate Sanji.
<<Sanji will never look as good as he did before>> pre-timskip days of Sanji were his peak.
Pls stop. That's not really what is said there and Oda isn't even involved.
 

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Being PK is pretty much a yonko level feat. I do think roger in his prime would probably beat any current living yonko but those are fights against people in his tier... Or that can at least hold their own.

As far as sanji goes, I am all for the idea that nothing in the story suggests he is able to take on any kind of YC but it just makes sense that he eventually gets there. It's hard to imagine luffy making it to PK without a crew worthy of a PK. And that includes not only sanji but also chopper and nami and ussop...
 

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Being PK is pretty much a yonko level feat. I do think roger in his prime would probably beat any current living yonko but those are fights against people in his tier... Or that can at least hold their own.

As far as sanji goes, I am all for the idea that nothing in the story suggests he is able to take on any kind of YC but it just makes sense that he eventually gets there. It's hard to imagine luffy making it to PK without a crew worthy of a PK. And that includes not only sanji but also chopper and nami and ussop...
Nope Yonko level is below Pirate King Level.

All 3 Prime Peak Whitebeard( age 38) and Prime non sick Roger( God Valley), Prime Garp are at a level of their own.
 

Nie Li

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Being PK is pretty much a yonko level feat. I do think roger in his prime would probably beat any current living yonko but those are fights against people in his tier... Or that can at least hold their own.

As far as sanji goes, I am all for the idea that nothing in the story suggests he is able to take on any kind of YC but it just makes sense that he eventually gets there. It's hard to imagine luffy making it to PK without a crew worthy of a PK. And that includes not only sanji but also chopper and nami and ussop...
Fully agree with the first part.

I also agree that Sanji he should not be there yet, specially since he refuses to properly put his pride aside and don the RS, but I'm sure he will defeat a YC-level opponent in this arc.
 

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Pirate King doesn't seem to be on a "Yonkou-level," that just depends on the pirate. Roger was strong, but it's debatable if he was strong enough to beat Big Mom as he didn't confront her. Again, it's been hinted that one does not need to fight the Emperors to become Pirate King, just get to Raftel.
 

kkck

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Nope Yonko level is below Pirate King Level.

All 3 Prime Peak Whitebeard( age 38) and Prime non sick Roger( God Valley), Prime Garp are at a level of their own.
WB was only a yonko but he was even on a fight with roger. WB simply never really cared about being PK. And roger only made it to PK because he improbably managed to get oden in his crew. It wasn't power that made roger PK, it was gathering the allies he did. Power had its role to play but it wasn't was made him. As I said, roger would probably win against the other yonko but those are still people in his tier.
 

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Roger isn't Luffy and Luffy isn't Roger. Oda had Luffy flat out state that he's going to take out all 4 Emperors. Luffy just restated the fact that he wants to take out both Kaido and Big Mom. He's already on the path to do so.

Times have changed since Roger found Laugh Tale. It's the Golden Age of Piracy and competition is vastly more fierce than before because people are aiming for Roger's throne. There was no one building up serious armies and gatekeeping like the current Yonkou are doing now. It's no longer a simple journey with a few skirmishes that Roger experienced. People are fighting and clawing their way to the top because they want Roger's legacy. It wasn't just about strength in Roger's time, but it certainly is a significant part of the run to Laugh Tale now.

Whitebeard was known as the Strongest Pirate and was the man closest to One Piece. He was constantly shown to be someone who was more exceptional than his current day peers. This has been highlighted several times in the series, with Wano doubling down on that fact as he was portrayed as an indivdual closer to Roger than anyone else in terms of Pirates. Even their bounties highlight that, with him having the 2nd highest bounty after Roger.

Luffy's going to surpass them all. He needs to in order become the freest man on the sea. Plus, it's a shounen. He's going to fight because that comes with the territory.
 

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Roger isn't Luffy and Luffy isn't Roger. Oda had Luffy flat out state that he's going to take out all 4 Emperors. Luffy just restated the fact that he wants to take out both Kaido and Big Mom. He's already on the path to do so.

Times have changed since Roger found Laugh Tale. It's the Golden Age of Piracy and competition is vastly more fierce than before because people are aiming for Roger's throne. There was no one building up serious armies and gatekeeping like the current Yonkou are doing now. It's no longer a simple journey with a few skirmishes that Roger experienced. People are fighting and clawing their way to the top because they want Roger's legacy. It wasn't just about strength in Roger's time, but it certainly is a significant part of the run to Laugh Tale now.

Whitebeard was known as the Strongest Pirate and was the man closest to One Piece. He was constantly shown to be someone who was more exceptional than his current day peers. This has been highlighted several times in the series, with Wano doubling down on that fact as he was portrayed as an indivdual closer to Roger than anyone else in terms of Pirates. Even their bounties highlight that, with him having the 2nd highest bounty after Roger.

Luffy's going to surpass them all. He needs to in order become the freest man on the sea. Plus, it's a shounen. He's going to fight because that comes with the territory.
Yes, which is why we'll see Luffy fight the Emperors. However, he never argued with Usopp when Usopp said he didn't need to fight any of the Yonkou to become the Pirate King, so basically it's a choice, not a requirement, to fight the Emperors or have an Emperor-level strength. If Luffy wanted to, he could just not try to fight Blackbeard or SHanks and go straight for getting to Raftel.

Wonder how common of a knowledge it was that Roger was aiming to become Pirate King, though. If it wasn't known at the time, then his rivals (I don't think the concept of emperors existed back then?) wouldn't have tried to "gatekeep" him from getting there. Nothing really disproves that Luffy doesn't have to fight the Emperors if he doesn't want to, but we know he wants to. And the fact is, he can be weaker than the Emperors and still beat them, and I think that's a part of his thing to show his willpower and refusal to give up.
 

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Yes, which is why we'll see Luffy fight the Emperors. However, he never argued with Usopp when Usopp said he didn't need to fight any of the Yonkou to become the Pirate King, so basically it's a choice, not a requirement, to fight the Emperors or have an Emperor-level strength. If Luffy wanted to, he could just not try to fight Blackbeard or SHanks and go straight for getting to Raftel.

Wonder how common of a knowledge it was that Roger was aiming to become Pirate King, though. If it wasn't known at the time, then his rivals (I don't think the concept of emperors existed back then?) wouldn't have tried to "gatekeep" him from getting there. Nothing really disproves that Luffy doesn't have to fight the Emperors if he doesn't want to, but we know he wants to. And the fact is, he can be weaker than the Emperors and still beat them, and I think that's a part of his thing to show his willpower and refusal to give up.
I can answer this partially. Its not that Roger didn't have competition it was just thought that "Conquering" the sea was IMPOSSIBLE so it wasn't highly sought after as it is now. Only Roger dared to actually follow through and had the means to. It was only after Rogers speech did Kaido and BM even care about becoming PK, which they didn't even know was possible before Roger. And after all this time they are no closer to being PK then they were before.

Hell, Luffy is closer to being PK then them as he has 3 Road Poneglyphs and Robin.

In fact Rogers greatest feats were before he even became PK. Defeating Rocks, etc

Minimum level of strength seems to be that of a Yonko to become PK. Where as PK was only ever matched by Whitebeard and Garp.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I can answer this partially. Its not that Roger didn't have competition it was just thought that "Conquering" the sea was IMPOSSIBLE so it wasn't highly sought after as it is now. Only Roger dared to actually follow through and had the means to. It was only after Rogers speech did Kaido and BM even care about becoming PK, which they didn't even know was possible before Roger. And after all this time they are no closer to being PK then they were before.

Hell, Luffy is closer to being PK then them as he has 3 Road Poneglyphs and Robin.

In fact Rogers greatest feats were before he even became PK. Defeating Rocks, etc

Minimum level of strength seems to be that of a Yonko to become PK. Where as PK was only ever matched by Whitebeard and Garp.
Just reading what I wrote to you makes me laugh... had a "little bit" of wine, but I hope what said makes sense. Could have structured it better
 

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Roger isn't Luffy and Luffy isn't Roger. Oda had Luffy flat out state that he's going to take out all 4 Emperors. Luffy just restated the fact that he wants to take out both Kaido and Big Mom. He's already on the path to do so.

Times have changed since Roger found Laugh Tale. It's the Golden Age of Piracy and competition is vastly more fierce than before because people are aiming for Roger's throne. There was no one building up serious armies and gatekeeping like the current Yonkou are doing now. It's no longer a simple journey with a few skirmishes that Roger experienced. People are fighting and clawing their way to the top because they want Roger's legacy. It wasn't just about strength in Roger's time, but it certainly is a significant part of the run to Laugh Tale now.

Whitebeard was known as the Strongest Pirate and was the man closest to One Piece. He was constantly shown to be someone who was more exceptional than his current day peers. This has been highlighted several times in the series, with Wano doubling down on that fact as he was portrayed as an indivdual closer to Roger than anyone else in terms of Pirates. Even their bounties highlight that, with him having the 2nd highest bounty after Roger.

Luffy's going to surpass them all. He needs to in order become the freest man on the sea. Plus, it's a shounen. He's going to fight because that comes with the territory.
Plotwise it's kinda hard to imagine luffy taking out shanks though. As in... how would that work out? It kinda looks like the story is moving towards a huge war... which might be the story's endgame. It seems pretty damn improbable that shanks would end up as an enemy to luffy. He'd almost have to side with the world government for that... Even if by some random event they end up with mutually exclusive interest, it's kinda hard to picture them not immediately getting hammered together.
 

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I can answer this partially. Its not that Roger didn't have competition it was just thought that "Conquering" the sea was IMPOSSIBLE so it wasn't highly sought after as it is now. Only Roger dared to actually follow through and had the means to. It was only after Rogers speech did Kaido and BM even care about becoming PK, which they didn't even know was possible before Roger. And after all this time they are no closer to being PK then they were before.

Hell, Luffy is closer to being PK then them as he has 3 Road Poneglyphs and Robin.

In fact Rogers greatest feats were before he even became PK. Defeating Rocks, etc

Minimum level of strength seems to be that of a Yonko to become PK. Where as PK was only ever matched by Whitebeard and Garp.
Where was this mentioned, though? From what it looks like, only Roger thought of going to Raftel, conquering the sea, and becoming the Pirate King, and that was late in his life when he found out he had an incurable disease. Otherwise it seems they all were just pirates for fun and/or to loot stuff.

I still say the strength isn't really necessary to become the Pirate King. In Luffy's case, he does need to be strong enough as he chose to take on the Yonkou in his quest.
 

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Where was this mentioned, though? From what it looks like, only Roger thought of going to Raftel, conquering the sea, and becoming the Pirate King, and that was late in his life when he found out he had an incurable disease. Otherwise it seems they all were just pirates for fun and/or to loot stuff.

I still say the strength isn't really necessary to become the Pirate King. In Luffy's case, he does need to be strong enough as he chose to take on the Yonkou in his quest.
If I remember the flashback properly, people didn't even know Laugh Tale is a thing (which begs the question of why did Big Mom have a Road Poneglyph back then in the first place if they didn't know what they are for). They thought Lodestar was the last island of the New World and that there was nothing left to explore in the world.
Roger somehow, by some unexplained means, discovered that Laugh Tale existed and that the Road Poneglyphs point towards it, so he gained the ambition of reaching that place where no other man (of his known history) had ever been. I don't think we know how Roger learnt about Laugh Tale, and perhaps others like Big Mom had the same information as he did, who knows, but simple knowledge of Laugh Tale's existence was his motivation, not his disease.
 

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so mihawk is the strongest of all char then? o.O
 

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Roger isn't Luffy and Luffy isn't Roger. Oda had Luffy flat out state that he's going to take out all 4 Emperors. Luffy just restated the fact that he wants to take out both Kaido and Big Mom. He's already on the path to do so.

Times have changed since Roger found Laugh Tale. It's the Golden Age of Piracy and competition is vastly more fierce than before because people are aiming for Roger's throne. There was no one building up serious armies and gatekeeping like the current Yonkou are doing now. It's no longer a simple journey with a few skirmishes that Roger experienced. People are fighting and clawing their way to the top because they want Roger's legacy. It wasn't just about strength in Roger's time, but it certainly is a significant part of the run to Laugh Tale now.

Whitebeard was known as the Strongest Pirate and was the man closest to One Piece. He was constantly shown to be someone who was more exceptional than his current day peers. This has been highlighted several times in the series, with Wano doubling down on that fact as he was portrayed as an indivdual closer to Roger than anyone else in terms of Pirates. Even their bounties highlight that, with him having the 2nd highest bounty after Roger.

Luffy's going to surpass them all. He needs to in order become the freest man on the sea. Plus, it's a shounen. He's going to fight because that comes with the territory.
Have to disagree. Luffy also said that he is going to save Ace, we all know how that went.

It is unreasonable to assume that Luffy will defeat both Big Mom and Kaido in the very same arc, but the remaining time will certainly not allow for three additional Yonko sagas.

Whitebeard was shown as completely out of shape and got owned by all three Admirals during the war. The anime greatly altered that but in the canon Manga, the Admirals clearly outperform him, people just can't accept that.

I think all these statements: Strongest Man, Strongest Creature, Strongest Swordsman, they are as much worth as CR7 is the best soccer player... or is it Messi? Or maybe neither of them as I don't really care about Soccer and a lot of time had passed?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Where was this mentioned, though? From what it looks like, only Roger thought of going to Raftel, conquering the sea, and becoming the Pirate King, and that was late in his life when he found out he had an incurable disease. Otherwise it seems they all were just pirates for fun and/or to loot stuff.

I still say the strength isn't really necessary to become the Pirate King. In Luffy's case, he does need to be strong enough as he chose to take on the Yonkou in his quest.
It definitely isn't necessary. Roger stole Big Mom's Poneglyph, was gifted the Wano and Zou Poneglyphs and was easily able to get the last one as it was not hidden. He did not really fight for any of them.

Roger became PK without defeating any of his peers. Even Shiki's fleet got destroyed by a storm.
 

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Have to disagree. Luffy also said that he is going to save Ace, we all know how that went.

It is unreasonable to assume that Luffy will defeat both Big Mom and Kaido in the very same arc, but the remaining time will certainly not allow for three additional Yonko sagas.

Whitebeard was shown as completely out of shape and got owned by all three Admirals during the war. The anime greatly altered that but in the canon Manga, the Admirals clearly outperform him, people just can't accept that.

I think all these statements: Strongest Man, Strongest Creature, Strongest Swordsman, they are as much worth as CR7 is the best soccer player... or is it Messi? Or maybe neither of them as I don't really care about Soccer and a lot of time had passed?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



It definitely isn't necessary. Roger stole Big Mom's Poneglyph, was gifted the Wano and Zou Poneglyphs and was easily able to get the last one as it was not hidden. He did not really fight for any of them.

Roger became PK without defeating any of his peers. Even Shiki's fleet got destroyed by a storm.
Roger beat all of them at God Valley before and he was on a timelimit when he visited Big Mom territory for her road poneglyphs in addition to being sick.
 

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