One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Mihawk admitting to being inferior to old WB and there is no proof as to there being ang gap between Mihawk and Shanks. At the most one edges the other.

The guy put Tsuru on Kaido level. I'm not sure anything is gunna convince him

 

[Ramen]

The guy put Tsuru on Kaido level. I'm not sure anything is gunna convince him

I'm going to assume he/she is a troll and leave.

 

[LadyVados]

Mihawk admitting to being inferior to old WB and there is no proof as to there being ang gap between Mihawk and Shanks. At the most one edges the other.

1. Mihawk never admitted to being inferior to WB, he had no idea about WB’s illness and had no reason to believe he wasn’t at Prime Strength, all he really said was that he wanted to see how strong WB really was.

2. Shanks > old WB imo. I think he’s almost as strong as Prime WB/Roger and Mihawk is slightly stronger than him.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 8, 2020 ---

The guy put Tsuru on Kaido level. I'm not sure anything is gunna convince him

1. Tsuru was stated to be the strongest VC after Garp which puts her above the admiral candidates.

2. She shouldn’t be that much weaker than Garp and Sengoku based on hype.

3. She was portrayed as Fujitora’s equal/peer.

4. Doflamingo was scared of her.

 

[Pirate Queen]

1. Tsuru was stated to be the strongest VC after Garp which puts her above the admiral candidates.

2. She shouldn’t be that much weaker than Garp and Sengoku based on hype.

3. She was portrayed as Fujitora’s equal/peer.

4. Doflamingo was scared of her.

Every single one of your points is speculative or have no basis of truth to them.

 

[LadyVados]

Every single one of your points is speculative or have no basis of truth to them.

The first one was literally stated-

 

[Pirate Queen]

The first one was literally stated-

"Possibly"

"Implied"

"May be"


Actual manga fact is that Kaido>Tsuru.

 

[LadyVados]

"Possibly"

"Implied"

"May be"


Actual manga fact is that Kaido>Tsuru.

Don’t get me wrong I’d probably bet on Kaido in a fight (thought that might change depending on how close the scabbards come to beating him) but they are in the same tier imo. Momousagi would probably push him to mid or high diff and Tsuru is significantly stronger.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 8, 2020 ---

Also Doffy is clearly scared of her, no idea how that is speculation.

 

[Nie Li]

1. He wasn't a yonko at the time

2. If it was up to Oda it wouldn't have happened and he was pressured into doing it. This is well known.

3. It was confirmed Vista's swordsmanship was enough to challenge Mihawk

4. I didn't say YC 4 at all. I implied Garp wouldn't have been stalled at all as he clowned Marco instantly

And it still doesn't change the fact..

1. He was already 10 years older than Luffy is now and he had a far better head start than him because of his experience sailing with Roger as a kid. The fact that he lost an arm there is still as unbelievable as if he would lose it just now.

2. I never heard about that, tbh, but I believe it.

3. Yes, but that doesn't mean much. On one hand we don't know Vista's power on the greater scale. I believe Vista can be similar to Rayleigh in skill but that's a whole other topic. On the other hand, Mihawk is one to take his opponents lightly and just chill, and that's all he did in Marineford. There's still not a single panel of Mihawk gritting his teeth or just making putting any real effort in. In the whole manga. He was also "challenged" by Crocodile and by Luffy and he's clearly above them, especially pre-ts.

4. It's not a fair comparison.

Both Garp's objectives and his determination were very different than Mihawk's at Marineford, so of course the way they'd undertake their responsibilities there wasn't the same.

Also, what you call "clowned" was just a single punch to the face that didn't KO Marco, which also translates to 0 damage because Marco's power is regeneration (unless some kind of limit to his regeneration is announced in the future, so far his only limit is kairouseki or being obliterated faster than he could regenerate, but that seems impossible).

You also have to consider brawler's fights like Garp's and Luffy's involve getting hit and hitting the opponent repeatedly and they all take a lot of damage in that kind of fight, while a fight with Mihawk would be finished instantly if he had a serious cut in, which is why the fight was reduced to just clashing swords without showing any technique instead of trading blows.

So, yeah. Regardless of whether Garp or Mihawk is stronger, Vista vs Mihawk and Garp vs Marco is not a fair comparison.




I do think current Mihawk is stronger than current Garp. I can't talk about Prime Garp because we have never seen prime Garp fighting no matter how great his legend is.

 

[Pirate Queen]

1. He was already 10 years older than Luffy is now and he had a far better head start than him because of his experience sailing with Roger as a kid. The fact that he lost an arm there is still as unbelievable as if he would lose it just now.

2. I never heard about that, tbh, but I believe it.

3. Yes, but that doesn't mean much. On one hand we don't know Vista's power on the greater scale. I believe Vista can be similar to Rayleigh in skill but that's a whole other topic. On the other hand, Mihawk is one to take his opponents lightly and just chill, and that's all he did in Marineford. There's still not a single panel of Mihawk gritting his teeth or just making putting any real effort in. In the whole manga. He was also "challenged" by Crocodile and by Luffy and he's clearly above them, especially pre-ts.

4. It's not a fair comparison.

Both Garp's objectives and his determination were very different than Mihawk's at Marineford, so of course the way they'd undertake their responsibilities there wasn't the same.

Also, what you call "clowned" was just a single punch to the face that didn't KO Marco, which also translates to 0 damage because Marco's power is regeneration (unless some kind of limit to his regeneration is announced in the future, so far his only limit is kairouseki or being obliterated faster than he could regenerate, but that seems impossible).

You also have to consider brawler's fights like Garp's and Luffy's involve getting hit and hitting the opponent repeatedly and they all take a lot of damage in that kind of fight, while a fight with Mihawk would be finished instantly if he had a serious cut in, which is why the fight was reduced to just clashing swords without showing any technique instead of trading blows.

So, yeah. Regardless of whether Garp or Mihawk is stronger, Vista vs Mihawk and Garp vs Marco is not a fair comparison.




I do think current Mihawk is stronger than current Garp. I can't talk about Prime Garp because we have never seen prime Garp fighting no matter how great his legend is.

It is 100% a fair comparison and litterally the only one we have. But agree to disagree I guess.

 

[Nie Li]

Don’t get me wrong I’d probably bet on Kaido in a fight (thought that might change depending on how close the scabbards come to beating him) but they are in the same tier imo. Momousagi would probably push him to mid or high diff and Tsuru is significantly stronger.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 8, 2020 ---

Also Doffy is clearly scared of her, no idea how that is speculation.

How do you know Momousagi would be able of that?

She was an admiral candidate but there must also be a reason she wasn't chosen and some marines that weren't even VCs were chosen instead of her. She should be weaker than Fujitora.

Tsuru may be stronger than other VC but that doesn't mean she's on pair with Kaido. That's a huge jump.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2020 ---

It is 100% a fair comparison and litterally the only one we have. But agree to disagree I guess.

To me those two clashes are like comparing oranges to speed but, indeed, the problem is that we lack feats or any other thing to compare until we see Mihawk or Vista again in a future arc.

Agree to disagree until we do. We should bet something about his strength when the manga draws near to showing feats for him.

 

[Pirate Queen]

How do you know Momousagi would be able of that?

She was an admiral candidate but there must also be a reason she wasn't chosen and some marines that weren't even VCs were chosen instead of her. She should be weaker than Fujitora.

Tsuru may be stronger than other VC but that doesn't mean she's on pair with Kaido. That's a huge jump.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2020 ---

To me those two clashes are like comparing oranges to speed but, indeed, the problem is that we lack feats or any other thing to compare until we see Mihawk or Vista again in a future arc.

Agree to disagree until we do. We should bet something about his strength when the manga draws near to showing feats for him.

About whose strength?

 

[Nie Li]

About whose strength?

I meant about Mihawk's. But that's a long time from now unless we are shown the marine's raid on his island.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I meant about Mihawk's. But that's a long time from now unless we are shown the marine's raid on his island.

Oh. Well my opinions on him are well documented here.

Yonko level, but probably the weakest Yonko level character.


Whats funny is that the only time he's going to go all out is against Zoro and he will obviously lose so his only real fight against an equal in the manga is going to end in a defeat and I think thats pretty funny.

 

[LadyVados]

How do you know Momousagi would be able of that?

She was an admiral candidate but there must also be a reason she wasn't chosen and some marines that weren't even VCs were chosen instead of her. She should be weaker than Fujitora.

The fact that she was even considered means that there is no way a Yonko would just walk all over her. She would never have even been considered if she couldn’t even put up a fight against someone like Kaido.

 

[Nie Li]

Oh. Well my opinions on him are well documented here.

Yonko level, but probably the weakest Yonko level character.

That's better than those who think he's YC4-level (I have read that on this forum but I don't remember from who, which is why assumed that's where you were going bringing up Vista, but that was my mistake).

I think Mihawk is Yonko level but at least slightly above Shanks. So I'd say we place him in the same tier but at different levels inside the Tier.

Whats funny is that the only time he's going to go all out is against Zoro and he will obviously lose so his only real fight against an equal in the manga is going to end in a defeat and I think thats pretty funny.

It's very ironic. As long as he puts up a fight that makes the 20+ years worth of hype since he was first introduced, I'll be satisfied.

It'd be dope if he gets to show off a low-dif win against another top tier swordsman before his fight with Zoro, just to remind us why he's Zoro's endgoal.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 8, 2020 ---

The fact that she was even considered means that there is no way a Yonko would just walk all over her. She would never have even been considered if she couldn’t even put up a fight against someone like Kaido.

The way you say "against someone like Kaido" sounds like Kaido was just some small time thug.

- She might have been considered for the admiral promotion simply because she was one of the strongest VC. That doesn't mean much, since the strongest VCs I can remember right now are guys like Momonga and Vergo, who are strong, but not nearly as strong as an admiral.

- We know that Kaido can put up a hard fight against a Yonkou, but the guy was a very experienced admiral that was immediately afterwards promoted to Sengoku's job. His feats don't necessarily apply to Fujitora or to any other admiral newcomer.

 

[LadyVados]

I think Mihawk is Yonko level but at least slightly above Shanks.

My opinion exactly.

The thing is that I think Shanks is stronger than you do. I think Shanks would push Roger or Primebeard to high diff at least.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 8, 2020 ---

The way you say "against someone like Kaido" sounds like Kaido was just some small time thug.

He’s not a small time thug but an Admiral’s job is to fight Yonko.

IMO

Akainu vs Kaido- Akainu wins after a good fight

Fuji vs Kaido- Could go either way

Momousagi vs Kaido- Kaido wins after a good fight

Tsuru- significantly stronger than Momousagi

 

[McNuss]

Stop writing BS, in chapter 957

It was stated that Roger and Garp took on the Rocks Pirates( not Rocks alone), with the Rocks Pirates losing.

And we see a Roger and Garp 2 v 4( Kaido, Xebec, Kaido, Whitebeard).

We never see a 2v4. Given that Roger and Newgate are exactly equal later on, I doubt results would have been much different back then, and Linlin was already powerful enough to support her own country. I don't think the way this universe is created, that a 2v4 between Roger and Garp vs Xebec, Linlin, Newgate and Kaido would be winnable in any scenario for the former.

Defeating the captain is akin to defeating a crew.

Had Linlin and Newgate been taken out at God Valley, the entire history afterwards would have been different as both would have been brought towards Impel Down.

However, that is not what happened. Instead, Big Mom continued to be a Pirate Empress afterwards, and Whitebeard founded his own crew. Both became the first Yonko in the aftermath of Roger's execution, though technically Big Mom was already one before. This all wouldn't have been possible had they been defeated at God Valley, as the Marines were present.

It would fit the timeline though if Kaido was defeated here as he indeed was captured at some point and more and more is pointing at experiments being performed with and maybe on him. He is also implied to have only risen to power after the others.

 

[HereNThere]

Yes, which is why we'll see Luffy fight the Emperors. However, he never argued with Usopp when Usopp said he didn't need to fight any of the Yonkou to become the Pirate King, so basically it's a choice, not a requirement, to fight the Emperors or have an Emperor-level strength. If Luffy wanted to, he could just not try to fight Blackbeard or SHanks and go straight for getting to Raftel.

Wonder how common of a knowledge it was that Roger was aiming to become Pirate King, though. If it wasn't known at the time, then his rivals (I don't think the concept of emperors existed back then?) wouldn't have tried to "gatekeep" him from getting there. Nothing really disproves that Luffy doesn't have to fight the Emperors if he doesn't want to, but we know he wants to. And the fact is, he can be weaker than the Emperors and still beat them, and I think that's a part of his thing to show his willpower and refusal to give up.

Sooner or later, they'd be gunning for his head because he made it to the throne anyhow. Him being Pirate King doesn't lessen their own ambition. He'd have to fight them anyway. Especially if they get wind that he's headed to Raftel. Blackbeard especially isn't going to let that go unchallenged.

I imagine only Whitebeard knew before hand and everyone else discovered after it happened.

Yeah, I don't agree. When the time for him comes to get the throne, I feel that he needs to prove himself as the King among Kings.

Plotwise it's kinda hard to imagine luffy taking out shanks though. As in... how would that work out? It kinda looks like the story is moving towards a huge war... which might be the story's endgame. It seems pretty damn improbable that shanks would end up as an enemy to luffy. He'd almost have to side with the world government for that... Even if by some random event they end up with mutually exclusive interest, it's kinda hard to picture them not immediately getting hammered together.

He won't be an enemy, I'm sure of that. Shanks will basically be Luffy's final exam, so to speak. The two promised to meet again when Luffy had a become a great pirate. Luffy will obviously want to fight Shanks just to show him how far he'd come. It's why he wants to save him for last when he mentioned taking out the other Yonkou.

Things could go awry, of course, but I expect them to clash in earnest.

Have to disagree. Luffy also said that he is going to save Ace, we all know how that went.

It is unreasonable to assume that Luffy will defeat both Big Mom and Kaido in the very same arc, but the remaining time will certainly not allow for three additional Yonko sagas.

Whitebeard was shown as completely out of shape and got owned by all three Admirals during the war. The anime greatly altered that but in the canon Manga, the Admirals clearly outperform him, people just can't accept that.

I think all these statements: Strongest Man, Strongest Creature, Strongest Swordsman, they are as much worth as CR7 is the best soccer player... or is it Messi? Or maybe neither of them as I don't really care about Soccer and a lot of time had passed?

I think this is a claim that'll be followed through on. Especially since this entire saga revolves around the Yonkou being the major antagonist.

I'm not positive on it happening in the same arc either, honestly. In fact, I'd prefer it didn't happen in the same arc. But I do expect him to take them down.

I don't think they outperformed him to the level you are making it seem. He was the only one who was truly keeping up with them, despite his illness. Hell, he was the only one who was going toe to toe with Akainu who was steamrolling everyone else.

Even barring titles, he was still an individual who was on par with Roger and, as I mentioned, the series had just reestablished that during Oden's flashback.

 

[LadyVados]

Shanks will basically be Luffy's final exam, so to speak. The two promised to meet again when Luffy had a become a great pirate. Luffy will obviously want to fight Shanks just to show him how far he'd come. It's why he wants to save him for last when he mentioned taking out the other Yonkou.

Exactly, this is why I think Shanks isn’t that far off that Roger/Primebeard level and Mihawk as his slight superior is at that level.

 

[thedude]

Exactly, this is why I think Shanks isn’t that far off that Roger/Primebeard level and Mihawk as his slight superior is at that level.

Lol, Mihawk is Shanks superior...sure.