One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[goldb]

Yeah, let's not even start the Shanks/Mihawk debate; that never goes anywhere. Please and thanks.

 

[M3J]

Sooner or later, they'd be gunning for his head because he made it to the throne anyhow. Him being Pirate King doesn't lessen their own ambition. He'd have to fight them anyway. Especially if they get wind that he's headed to Raftel. Blackbeard especially isn't going to let that go unchallenged.

I imagine only Whitebeard knew before hand and everyone else discovered after it happened.

Yeah, I don't agree. When the time for him comes to get the throne, I feel that he needs to prove himself as the King among Kings.

I know all of that, but again, Luffy can still choose not to fight them, he can run away if he wanted to. That's my point.

Luffy also thinks he needs to prove himself as the King, so he'll definitely fight the Emperors and even the Marines.

 

[LadyVados]

Ok...

Let me rephrase

I think the strongest of the 4 current Yonko would push Prime Roger or Prime Garp to extreme diff and I think Mihawk would beat the strongest of the 4 current Yonko in an extreme diff fight, so I think Mihawk is at around the same level as Prime Roger or Prime Garp.

Especially Garp because of all the parallels and similarities I pointed out in my earlier post.

Is that fine ?

 

[M3J]

No, still based on nothing but conjecture

 

[Fox666]

Ok...

Let me rephrase

I think the strongest of the 4 current Yonko would push Prime Roger or Prime Garp to extreme diff and I think Mihawk would beat the strongest of the 4 current Yonko in an extreme diff fight, so I think Mihawk is at around the same level as Prime Roger or Prime Garp.

Especially Garp because of all the parallels and similarities I pointed out in my earlier post.

Is that fine ?

Of course Roger or Garp, even at their peak, would have a hard time against the Yonko or Admirals.

Roger never defeated Kaido or Big Mom. And he made a remark about Sengoku being a good challenge for him.

And while Stampede is not canon, the revelations about Roger were accurate. Bullet goal was to become the "strongest Pirate King", because not even Roger could defeat all Yonko and Admirals during his time.

 

[albertwv]

Of course Roger or Garp, even at their peak, would have a hard time against the Yonko or Admirals.

Roger never defeated Kaido or Big Mom. And he made a remark about Sengoku being a good challenge for him.

And while Stampede is not canon, the revelations about Roger were accurate. Bullet goal was to become the "strongest Pirate King", because not even Roger could defeat all Yonko and Admirals during his time.

I like to believe that Roger was strong enough to defeat the rest of the Yonko besides WB. Prime Roger >/= Prime WB >/= Prime Garp. It is stated that Prime WB and Roger were equal but Garp was only stated to corner the Pirate King several times. This could mean that they were equals or it could mean like Smoker and Luffy where Smoker caught/beat/cornered Luffy once or twice.. Thats how I see it, I mean Garp and Roger were extremely close in strenght but I think Roger had the upper hand. Kaido was an upcoming in the Rocks pirates when Roger defeated Rocks. But even today Im sure Prime Roger could defeat both Kaido and BM in the current timeline. Remember he was equaled to Prime WB and Old WB was equaled to current Kaido and Big Mom. Plus Big Mom is a joke now. Also I dont think Roger would have much of a hard time agaisnt the trio admirals 1v1

@ Whis, stop hiding we all know you're Nik.

 

[LadyVados]

@ Whis, stop hiding we all know you're Nik.

I know who you’re referring to because I’ve encountered him on other forums. I’m not him. That guy probably thinks Mihawk would solo DBS.

There’s a big difference between thinking he’s Prime Garp tier and thinking he’s an invincible god who’d solo the verse. Let’s not be hyperbolic.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2020 ---

I’m starting to think that a tier list might not be the best way to rate one piece characters, so I’ve come up with an alternative metric- A total combat rating.

This is a first draft-

Prime Roger-
Strength-93
Speed-97
Total combat rating-190

Prime WB
Strength-100
Speed-90
TCR-190

Healthy Old WB
Strength-96
Speed-90
TCR-186

Marineford WB
Strength-95
Speed-85
TCR-180

Shanks
Strength-93
Speed-93
TCR-186

Mihawk
Strength-95
Speed-95
TCR-190

Prime Garp
Strength-95
Speed-95
TCR-190

Old Garp
Strength-92
Speed-92
TCR-184

Kizaru
Strength-80
Speed-100
TCR-180

Aokiji
Strength-90
Speed-90
TCR-180

Akainu
Strength-100
Speed-80
TCR-180

Kaido
Strength-96
Speed-80
TCR-176

Big Mom
Strength-94
Speed-82
TCR-176

Fujitora
Strength-88
Speed-88
TCR-176

Old Rayleigh
Strength-85
Speed-95
TCR-180

Prime Rayleigh
Strength-90
Speed-96
TCR-186

What do you guys think ?

 

[I Am Atomic]

What do you guys think ?

Where do you pull out these numbers from? Oh pure conjecture.

Bring out manga facts pls. Like panels.

 

[LadyVados]

Where do you pull out these numbers from? Oh pure conjecture.

Bring out manga facts pls. Like panels.

How I got these numbers-

WB for example is considered the WSM so him having the highest possible strength rating makes sense. He should logically have a somewhat lower speed than people who are generally portrayed on his level such as Garp or Roger.

Akainu was state’s time have the most destructive devil fruit ever do him having a 100 rating also makes sense.

Kizaru should get a 100 rating in speed for obvious reasons. Since Akainu and Kizaru are portrayed as equals, that means that they should have similar stat totals. Aokiji is also portrayed on that level but he is neither as fast as Kizaru or as fast as Akainu so him having ratings in the middle of their 2 extremes is reasonable so 90-90 for him and 100/80 for his colleagues.

We know Garp was not as strong as WB but was probably faster since he was treated as an equal combatant overall so him being a bit weaker but a bit faster than WB makes sense. So 95-95 is reasonable.

There are a lot of similarities between Mihawk and Garp, one is a master if fistfighting, the other of swordfighting abd neither having DFs or COC so I see them both as balanced combatants on the same level.

We know Roger fought with a sword but didn’t have a black blade so he probably had less cutting power than Mihawk but considering his status as an equal of Garp or WB he probably made up for it with speed. So 93 strength and 97 speed is reasonable.

Shanks is generally portrayed as a slightly worse version of Mihawk so him having 93s is reasonable. Let’s also put 93 as the power limit of non black blade swordsmanship since it sounds reasonable.

We know WB lost a bit of strength due to old age but was probably still near the top. He lost even more strength and more importantly speed due to his illness which was shown many times but he could still catch Akainu off guard and was portrayed as faster than him so he got those ratings.

Rayleigh kept up well with Kizaru, intercepting him so him being somewhat close to him in speed is reasonable. But he’s clearly not amazingly physically strong compared to say the Yonko. This was likely somewhat different in his prime but he was still probably not quite as strong as the Yonko but he was probably even faster than now.

Garp probably lost more fighting power than a healthy WB due to inactivity but still less than sick WB.

The Yonko seem to be near the top in brute strength but not especially fast. Based on the last few chapters I’d say they’re Slightly worse fighters overall Than the colour trio. Since Kaido is the WSC he gets 96 and since Mihawk is the WSS, BM gets 94 as she is a swords(wo)man and a creature, Akainu is a special case because his strength/power rating comes purely from his DF. But since she is overall equal to Kaido she’s slightly faster than him.

Fuji seems like a balanced fighter but slightly weaker than the colour trio overall.

 

[I Am Atomic]

How I got these numbers-

WB for example is considered the WSM so him having the highest possible strength rating makes sense. He should logically have a somewhat lower speed than people who are generally portrayed on his level such as Garp or Roger.

Akainu was state’s time have the most destructive devil fruit ever do him having a 100 rating also makes sense.

Kizaru should get a 100 rating in speed for obvious reasons. Since Akainu and Kizaru are portrayed as equals, that means that they should have similar stat totals. Aokiji is also portrayed on that level but he is neither as fast as Kizaru or as fast as Akainu so him having ratings in the middle of their 2 extremes is reasonable so 90-90 for him and 100/80 for his colleagues.

We know Garp was not as strong as WB but was probably faster since he was treated as an equal combatant overall so him being a bit weaker but a bit faster than WB makes sense. So 95-95 is reasonable.

There are a lot of similarities between Mihawk and Garp, one is a master if fistfighting, the other of swordfighting abd neither having DFs or COC so I see them both as balanced combatants on the same level.

We know Roger fought with a sword but didn’t have a black blade so he probably had less cutting power than Mihawk but considering his status as an equal of Garp or WB he probably made up for it with speed. So 93 strength and 97 speed is reasonable.

Shanks is generally portrayed as a slightly worse version of Mihawk so him having 93s is reasonable. Let’s also put 93 as the power limit of non black blade swordsmanship since it sounds reasonable.

We know WB lost a bit of strength due to old age but was probably still near the top. He lost even more strength and more importantly speed due to his illness which was shown many times but he could still catch Akainu off guard and was portrayed as faster than him so he got those ratings.

Rayleigh kept up well with Kizaru, intercepting him so him being somewhat close to him in speed is reasonable. But he’s clearly not amazingly physically strong compared to say the Yonko. This was likely somewhat different in his prime but he was still probably not quite as strong as the Yonko but he was probably even faster than now.

Garp probably lost more fighting power than a healthy WB due to inactivity but still less than sick WB.

The Yonko seem to be near the top in brute strength but not especially fast. Based on the last few chapters I’d say they’re Slightly worse fighters overall Than the colour trio. Since Kaido is the WSC he gets 96 and since Mihawk is the WSS, BM gets 94 as she is a swords(wo)man and a creature, Akainu is a special case because his strength/power rating comes purely from his DF. But since she is overall equal to Kaido she’s slightly faster than him.

Fuji seems like a balanced fighter but slightly weaker than the colour trio overall.

Even if all of that is true, this isn't a turn based game. Where is Endurance? Where is skill? Where is willpower and conviction? Where is haki mastery? Fights between two combatants aren't based on stats.

Akainu was state’s time have the most destructive devil fruit ever do him having a 100 rating also makes sense.

Well it was said in the manga, WB's fruit Quake is the most destructive.

Since Akainu and Kizaru are portrayed as equals

All admirals are potrayed equal.

We know Roger fought with a sword but didn’t have a black blade so he probably had less cutting power than Mihawk

Black blade means sword is harder not sharper.

Shanks is generally portrayed as a slightly worse version of Mihawk so him having 93s is reasonable.

This never have been shown.

This was likely somewhat different in his prime but he was still probably not quite as strong as the Yonko

Oda himself has said that if Rayleigh started his own crew, he would be a Yonko tier.

Fuji seems like a balanced fighter but slightly weaker than the colour trio overall.

And where did you get that information from?

Show me manga panels pls

 

[HereNThere]

As a reminder, as stated in the sticky at the top of the page, please provide proof to your claims, preferably manga panels or statements by Oda. Especially if your arguments are about any of the listed topics.

Black blades aren't listed, but lets wait until we get more information about them before as well before making any claims about those who have them and those who don't. They raise a sword's grade and are related to haki. That's all we know.

 

[thedude]

So Mihawk is stronger than Marineford WB, yet during the war he just said "i want to test just how far ahead of us he is" (or words to that effect), and then tried to slash him from a few hundred yards away.

Yeah, that sounds like the thing a guy stronger would do!

Moving on, this new chapter will give us a gauge of Who's Who finally. Is he close to YC level?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2020 ---

As a reminder, as stated in the sticky at the top of the page, please provide proof to your claims, preferably manga panels or statements by Oda. Especially if your arguments are about any of the listed topics.

Black blades aren't listed, but lets wait until we get more information about them before as well before making any claims about those who have them and those who don't. They raise a sword's grade and are related to haki. That's all we know.

As a reminder, as stated in the sticky at the top of the page, please provide proof to your claims, preferably manga panels or statements by Oda. Especially if your arguments are about any of the listed topics.

Black blades aren't listed, but lets wait until we get more information about them before as well before making any claims about those who have them and those who don't. They raise a sword's grade and are related to haki. That's all we know.

Zoro also has been using a black blade since Thriller Bark, and it hasn't done anything special. He still got beat by Kuma like the rest. Still couldn't do much to Oars Jr, etc. A black blade is a sign of something...but we've seen it long enough to not overhype it I hope.

 

[Fox666]

So Mihawk is stronger than Marineford WB, yet during the war he just said "i want to test just how far ahead of us he is" (or words to that effect), and then tried to slash him from a few hundred yards away.

That line actually has a double meaning in the Japanese original. It can also be interpreted as Mihawk saying Whitebeard's strength has decayed.

IMHO a more accurate translation would be something like "Let's see how closer to us he has fallen".

This is also fitting to his title of "Hawk Eyes", as he noticed Whitebeard illness affected him before anyone.

 

[thedude]

That line actually has a double meaning in the Japanese original. It can also be interpreted as Mihawk saying Whitebeard's strength has decayed.

IMHO a more accurate translation would be something like "Let's see how closer to us he has fallen".

This is also fitting to his title of "Hawk Eyes", as he noticed Whitebeard illness affected him before anyone.

But even that shows that he wasn't as strong as WB, to say "closer to us he has fallen" implies he knows WB is stronger.

 

[HereNThere]

I think the corrected line is even more flattering to Whitebeard. It really demonstrates how much stronger Whitebeard was than everyone else before his illness. Mihawk's words imply that, at that moment, he was within everyone's reach now. He had to have been untouchable when he was healthy.

 

[albertwv]

So Sanji lost his RS after an attack from King...I am glad Sanji took off his RS, I think it was a useless power up because if he had continued to rely on it he wouldnt be stronger in sense of his own skill. But now that he lost his power up (durability, speed, invisibility, and strength) will he still be as strong as Page 1 or YC level? Also he lost it after 1 attack from King? Either King is out of his level or Sanji was never that strong to begin with.
But there is still that one person who will claim Sanji vs King till the end.
Funny how Zolo ignored everyone else and decided to join Luffy to fight Kaido. Right after fighting Gifters.

 

[I Am Atomic]

So Sanji lost his RS after an attack from King...I am glad Sanji took off his RS, I think it was a useless power up because if he had continued to rely on it he wouldnt be stronger in sense of his own skill. But now that he lost his power up (durability, speed, invisibility, and strength) will he still be as strong as Page 1 or YC level? Also he lost it after 1 attack from King? Either King is out of his level or Sanji was never that strong to begin with.
But there is still that one person who will claim Sanji vs King till the end.
Funny how Zolo ignored everyone else and decided to join Luffy to fight Kaido. Right after fighting Gifters.

RS is not lost. He deactivated it for the double page spread. He wanted to pose.

 

[thedude]

RS is not lost. He deactivated it for the double page spread. He wanted to pose.

Power of Pose > Everything. The Power level discussion is over lol!

 

[M3J]

So Sanji lost his RS after an attack from King...I am glad Sanji took off his RS, I think it was a useless power up because if he had continued to rely on it he wouldnt be stronger in sense of his own skill. But now that he lost his power up (durability, speed, invisibility, and strength) will he still be as strong as Page 1 or YC level? Also he lost it after 1 attack from King? Either King is out of his level or Sanji was never that strong to begin with.
But there is still that one person who will claim Sanji vs King till the end.
Funny how Zolo ignored everyone else and decided to join Luffy to fight Kaido. Right after fighting Gifters.

I think he'd have beaten Page ONe, but it'd have been a hard fight. Sanji should be able to deal with King, probably, but if Queen is a two-sword swordsman, then he'd be Zoro's opponent, or a swordsman's.

 

[LaGOAT]

I think he'd have beaten Page ONe, but it'd have been a hard fight. Sanji should be able to deal with King, probably, but if Queen is a two-sword swordsman, then he'd be Zoro's opponent, or a swordsman's.

doubt its either zoro is fighting king and sanji or fighting queen or sanji vs king and zoro and luffy vs kaido