One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

I know this would be a tough one but how strong do you rate Katakuri among the other YC1s?
I would say he is the weakest one among them based on the plot that Luffy faced him first and defeated him (albeit with help). Marcos is from Roger's era kinda..so he has to be the strongest among the YCs. Beckman is a mystery but I would put him right below Marco, then King and finally Katakuri and/or Shiryu.
It is still unknown if Shiryu is the YC1 of the BB Pirates or Burgess. I doubt Burgess is though but he does seem to be the closest to BB himself.

 

[Ramen]

I know this would be a tough one but how strong do you rate Katakuri among the other YC1s?
I would say he is the weakest one among them based on the plot that Luffy faced him first and defeated him (albeit with help). Marcos is from Roger's era kinda..so he has to be the strongest among the YCs. Beckman is a mystery but I would put him right below Marco, then King and finally Katakuri and/or Shiryu.
It is still unknown if Shiryu is the YC1 of the BB Pirates or Burgess. I doubt Burgess is though but he does seem to be the closest to BB himself.

For me it would go:

Beckmann (Hype and from Shanks crew) >= Marco >> Katakuri >>> Shiryuu >> Burgess

Katakuri's advanced CoO makes Shiryuu's DF useless and has some really good haki. But from a plot perspective I can see why Katakuri could be deemed the weakest.

Though I don't think he's stronger than all YC2's and YC3. Jack very could be stronger and Queen. Same with Jozu.

 

[Fox666]

I would say the opposite, since Katakuri was the stepping stone for Luffy to fight the Yonko, from the plot perspective he would be the strongest.

Also Katakuri was said to have never lost a fight, but I assume he fought the crew of the other Yonko before. In that case, he must have defeated the other commanders.

 

[Luke Beifong]

I know this would be a tough one but how strong do you rate Katakuri among the other YC1s?
I would say he is the weakest one among them based on the plot that Luffy faced him first and defeated him (albeit with help). Marcos is from Roger's era kinda..so he has to be the strongest among the YCs. Beckman is a mystery but I would put him right below Marco, then King and finally Katakuri and/or Shiryu.
It is still unknown if Shiryu is the YC1 of the BB Pirates or Burgess. I doubt Burgess is though but he does seem to be the closest to BB himself.

Between Beckman and Marco is difficult to measure how’s the strongest. Beckman is said to be the strongest YC, almost as strong as Shanks. But Marco fight against BB and survived and Gorosei said he is one of the strongest men in the world (at least one of the very few that can defeat BB). I really don’t know how’s the strong between those two. Between King and Katakuri I think King is stronger or at least more dangerous. Man, he attacks BM ship alone. I can never imagine Katakuri doing a thing like this. King can be weaker than Katakuri, but fighting against a opponent that don’t have fear, that is reckless like this, is always a dangerous thing. And we have Shiryuu. For me he really don’t look that strong. He’s cruel, but don’t look like a strong guy.

A thing I always been thinking is, what if BB teach his crew how to contain 2 or 3 DF powers in their bodies? Is said the crew is hunting for powerful DF to distribute to the hole crew, but the DF that Shiryuu and Katarina have really don’t look like good or powerful DF. Just don’t make sense. I mean, if you have a good enough Haki of Observation you don’t need your eyes to see. So the invisible power is just trash. And you can sense a persons aura, so even if you transform in someone, you can’t change your aura, it will be the same aura with another body, just it. But if they have more than one fruit each... Well, that will be a really overpower crew, but I think it’s fit for a final villain crew.

 

[M3J]

I don't think there's any way to measure who's the strongest as each might have their own strength. Katakuri is nearly unhittable, while King or someone else could tank attacks after attacks, which could result in a tie or whoever has better endurance.

 

[Fox666]

Beckman is said to be the strongest YC, almost as strong as Shanks.

The Vivre Card was a bit vague. It said Beckman was comparable to Shanks in how "feared" he was.

However, so far in the manga nothing indicates that. The Gorosei mentioned only Marco's name when they were discussing who could stop Blackbeard. Also Brannew said the Red-Haired crew had an high-average bounty... it didn't sound like the crew had two Yonko-level combatants.

Between King and Katakuri I think King is stronger or at least more dangerous. Man, he attacks BM ship alone. I can never imagine Katakuri doing a thing like this.

I don't think that was really special. He hit the ship when nobody was expecting. In terms of strength, Luffy could probably do it with an Elephant Gun. He almost destroyed Noah, which was also ridiculously large.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

The Vivre Card was a bit vague. It said Beckman was comparable to Shanks in how "feared" he was.

Are people feared for anything other than their strength/power?
We've seen this with the Yonko and Admirals, some Yonko commanders and even the worst gen.
Beckman may not be as strong as Shanks but I'd bet he's pretty close - same as my view on Mihawk.

As far as strongest YC goes, I'd rate Beckman first and probably Marco as a close second. Every other Yonko's second-in-command like Katakuri, King and Shilew would come in that order. Shilew would be the weakest IMO (I'd rate Cracker, Smoothie, Queen and Jack above him).

 

[thedude]

The Vivre Card was a bit vague. It said Beckman was comparable to Shanks in how "feared" he was.

However, so far in the manga nothing indicates that. The Gorosei mentioned only Marco's name when they were discussing who could stop Blackbeard. Also Brannew said the Red-Haired crew had an high-average bounty... it didn't sound like the crew had two Yonko-level combatants.


I don't think that was really special. He hit the ship when nobody was expecting. In terms of strength, Luffy could probably do it with an Elephant Gun. He almost destroyed Noah, which was also ridiculously large.

They mention Marco because he was leading his own WB offshoot. Beckman wasn't mentioned because he was part of a crew. They mention the yonkos, and Marco, but not individually, more as a crew vs BB's crew.

I also don't think Beckman is as strong as Shanks, but I do think he's the strongest YC due to the small size of Shanks and the fact that they still compete with the other Yonko crews.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 14, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 14, 2020 ---

Are people feared for anything other than their strength/power?
We've seen this with the Yonko and Admirals, some Yonko commanders and even the worst gen.
Beckman may not be as strong as Shanks but I'd bet he's pretty close - same as my view on Mihawk.

As far as strongest YC goes, I'd rate Beckman first and probably Marco as a close second. Every other Yonko's second-in-command like Katakuri, King and Shilew would come in that order. Shilew would be the weakest IMO (I'd rate Cracker, Smoothie, Queen and Jack above him).

Shilew is likely going to lose to Zoro in a tough fight, if Zoro wins against a YC now, and has a harder time vs Shilew later, that puts him higher.

 

[Nie Li]

Shiliew should logically be very strong.

Without his invisibility DF (which is a very dangerous fruit for a fighter that's very strong and fast physically, unlike Absalom) he was already said to be as strong as Magellan in a fight.

Magellan was an absolute monster. I don't know if he had any haki, probably not, but his DF abilities made him easily top-VC level and Luffy wasn't able to defeat him. Even more so, even if current Luffy would go G4 level to defeat Magellan in a 1v1, he would still die to touching his venom if he tried to punch him directly as nothing indicates hardening protects you from the most lethal venoms in the world. Perhaps with proper emission hardening he would be able to survive beating him (by coating his full arm in the invisible barrier that prevents direct contact with the venom).

A guy that was said to be as strong as Magellan with only one sword (two years ago and prior to having a DF of his own) is definitely not a weak second in command.

 

[albertwv]

For now I think Marco and Beckman are in equal terms. I still think Marco is a little bit higher since he fought agaisnt Roger Pirates even though he and Shanks were apprentices. King seems more dangerous than Katakuri. Katakuri has never lost a fight but that doesnt mean hes the strongest, it just means he never fought someone who was stronger than him, most likely never fought a Yonko or another YC. I think he is smart enough to think that is he outmatched and will back down if he fears he would lose. I wish to see what kind of haki King has that makes him a YC plus his bounty.
I know bounties do not represent strenght but both Jack and Queen have bounties as close to Katakuri with Queen having it higher. Now im not saying Queen > Katakuri but maybe =.
Magellan imo was weak compared to NW terms. He didnt show haki but maybe he does know it. And also im pretty sure CoA can go through his poison body and hit him directly so anyone with strong haki and power can hit him. If Pre TS G2 Luffy was able to knock him down to his knees after one hit im pretty sure Post TS G2 Luffy could defeat him with some difficulty.
What I do wonder is King's appearance and uniform it resembles Impel Down both Magellan and Shiryuu before TS plus apparently he loves to torture hinting some prison background maybe.

 

[Nie Li]

Magellan imo was weak compared to NW terms. He didnt show haki but maybe he does know it. And also im pretty sure CoA can go through his poison body and hit him directly so anyone with strong haki and power can hit him. If Pre TS G2 Luffy was able to knock him down to his knees after one hit im pretty sure Post TS G2 Luffy could defeat him with some difficulty.
What I do wonder is King's appearance and uniform it resembles Impel Down both Magellan and Shiryuu before TS plus apparently he loves to torture hinting some prison background maybe.

Pre-TS Luffy also knocked Blackbeard to his knees with one hit, so that is not much of an indication of anything unless what you're saying is that a current Yonko is also "weak by NW standards".

It really feels like Shiliew and Magellan are being downplayed in the fandom.

Magellan can be hit with or without haki, the merit would be in not dying doing so, and there's simply no indication that normal hardening would prevent going through his Venom Demon from being lethal or from dissolving. It would be a different matter for emission haki but almost no character in the series knows emission so that's plenty strong already. That's why, as I said, Magellan is a very strong top Vice Admiral tier fighter even without haki. Being a strong haki user would make him jump up to admiral level.

However, it's mostly his "hax" Devil Fruit what makes him that strong, and that's why the fact that characters that knew both him and Shiliew considered Shiliew to be "just as strong as he is with no "hax" and no Devil Fruit at all", should be a clear indicator that Shiliew is a real beast that will be very hard to deal with. Not to mention that for him to be considered like that he probably already had hardening back then, if not even emission.

Add to that the invisibility fruit. Sanji has proved that even in front of a YC1 like King, invisibility is not useless, as basic CoO doesn't appear to be enough to perceive an invisible fighter. Shiliew, as a very fast and strong swordsman, being able to attack wihout his movements being seen is a huge battle boost.

 

[albertwv]

Pre-TS Luffy also knocked Blackbeard to his knees with one hit, so that is not much of an indication of anything unless what you're saying is that a current Yonko is also "weak by NW standards".

It really feels like Shiliew and Magellan are being downplayed in the fandom.

Magellan can be hit with or without haki, the merit would be in not dying doing so, and there's simply no indication that normal hardening would prevent going through his Venom Demon from being lethal or from dissolving. It would be a different matter for emission haki but almost no character in the series knows emission so that's plenty strong already. That's why, as I said, Magellan is a very strong top Vice Admiral tier fighter even without haki. Being a strong haki user would make him jump up to admiral level.

However, it's mostly his "hax" Devil Fruit what makes him that strong, and that's why the fact that characters that knew both him and Shiliew considered Shiliew to be "just as strong as he is with no "hax" and no Devil Fruit at all", should be a clear indicator that Shiliew is a real beast that will be very hard to deal with. Not to mention that for him to be considered like that he probably already had hardening back then, if not even emission.

Add to that the invisibility fruit. Sanji has proved that even in front of a YC1 like King, invisibility is not useless, as basic CoO doesn't appear to be enough to perceive an invisible fighter. Shiliew, as a very fast and strong swordsman, being able to attack wihout his movements being seen is a huge battle boost.

Okay you got me with the BB comparison but i stand my ground with the CoA vs Poison DF. Haki allows to penetrate the user hiding behind their DF whether it is magma, mochi, ice, light, gas, and yes even poison. Look at when Luffy fought Ceasar who is poisonous gas. He hit him directly many times and did not show any effects from his poison and im not talking about Luffy's venom immunity (to a certain degree). Luffy punched Katakuri and bypassed his DF defense. So yes anyone with haki can bypass Magellan's poison defense and hit Magellan's real body. Shit even Luffy did so without haki at the cost of his arms. Its like the reason why Shanks' sword did not melt when it blocked Akainu's magma punch.

 

[LadyVados]

I post the picture from the anime since it was easier to find.

Even his eye turns into diamond, and that pretty much settles it.

That photo is proof it is just an outer layer LOL

There are little diamond flakes on top of his skin.

 

[Nie Li]

That photo is proof it is just an outer layer LOL

There are little diamond flakes on top of his skin.

Because he's turning into a diamond. What paramecia only transforms the skin?

 

[Fox666]

Yeah, Jozu shouldn't be very different from Daz Bones.

 

[LadyVados]

Because he's turning into a diamond. What paramecia only transforms the skin?

Why would a inch wide portion of his body go diamond but not anything around it ?

Magellan’s fruit.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 16, 2020 ---

Kaido is fodder yo.

Mihawk would roflstomp him.

Even Big Mom seems to be taking a weakling like Marco seriously. Pathetic.

 

[Nie Li]

Why would a inch wide portion of his body go diamond but not anything around it ?

Magellan’s fruit.

Magellan doesn't change his skin. He creates poison from his body like Mr.3 with the wax. Jozu turns into diamond. There's no diamond outside of his body.

 

[LadyVados]

Magellan doesn't change his skin. He creates poison from his body like Mr.3 with the wax. Jozu turns into diamond. There's no diamond outside of his body.

He covers his body with a layer of poison.

 

[Nie Li]

He covers his body with a layer of poison.

That is only a technique of his much larger array of abilities.

He's able to coat his body of poison just like he's able to create a giant hydra of poison.


There are mostly two general kinds of Paramecia.

1) Those that turn their bodies into a substance/thing (rubber, blades, weapons, diamonds, etc)

2) Those that allow to create and control materials from their bodies (noro noro, wax, poison, strings, etc)



You claim that Jozu is from category 2, yet in the most important fight of his life, Marineford, in which he lost both his captain and a brother, he only showed the power to turn his body into diamond. He didn't create diamonds from his body. A diamond weapon, a diamond tsunami, anything, to suggest that he can create diamonds.

The only thing that he did show is the ability to turn himself into diamonds and show off a diamond-like durability. Thus, we can easily conclude that he's from category 1.

If you want, you can claim that he's from a third category of paramecias: A category that only grants the power to transform the user's skin into a substance or thing, but for that category to truly be a thing I'd like to hear at least one single other example of a paramecia whose only power is "to transform the skin into something". Even Alvida's Paramecia that made her slippery somehow transformed her whole body and made her slim, proving it wasn't only skin-related.

And since Magellan is clearly from category 2, you can't use him as an example.

 

[LadyVados]

That is only a technique of his much larger array of abilities.

He's able to coat his body of poison just like he's able to create a giant hydra of poison.


There are mostly two general kinds of Paramecia.

1) Those that turn their bodies into a substance/thing (rubber, blades, weapons, diamonds, etc)

2) Those that allow to create and control materials from their bodies (noro noro, wax, poison, strings, etc)



You claim that Jozu is from category 2, yet in the most important fight of his life, Marineford, in which he lost both his captain and a brother, he only showed the power to turn his body into diamond. He didn't create diamonds from his body. A diamond weapon, a diamond tsunami, anything, to suggest that he can create diamonds.

The only thing that he did show is the ability to turn himself into diamonds and show off a diamond-like durability. Thus, we can easily conclude that he's from category 1.

If you want, you can claim that he's from a third category of paramecias: A category that only grants the power to transform the user's skin into a substance or thing, but for that category to truly be a thing I'd like to hear at least one single other example of a paramecia whose only power is "to transform the skin into something". Even Alvida's Paramecia that made her slippery somehow transformed her whole body and made her slim, proving it wasn't only skin-related.

And since Magellan is clearly from category 2, you can't use him as an example.

With all due respect that is way too limiting. There are fruits that don’t fall into either of those categories like Law or Hawkins or WB or BM or Senor Pink and so on.