One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

Roger also called Rayleigh and Scopper his "top commanders"
If Oden had the potential to be a Yonko level then Rayleigh had already the level of an Admiral.
He's the "Dark" King because he chose to stay behind Roger's shadow instead of becoming one himself

In Stampede, even if it's not really canon, Bullet was said to almost match Rayleigh in strength and that same guy needed a buster call with both Garp and Sengoku to be taken down.

Rayleigh was a monster.

I absolutely agree, I didn't exclude him from the list to downplay him.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2020 ---

Just to be clear, Rayleigh meets the strength criteria by a lot. He's just not a "Yonkou" Commander, which is what I was asked to rank.

 

[Ramen]

Rayleigh in strength and that same guy needed a buster call with both Garp and Sengoku to be taken down.

+ Borsalino.

 

[M3J]

I'd never forget such an awesome character!

I didn't place Rayleigh because Roger was never a Yonko. It's true that Oden served under WB before he was one but he was already called "fleet commander".


He wasn't at Akainu's level but that doesn't tell us anything, because Akainu made Blackbeard run away at the simple sight of his ship when the guy had already his titanic commanders and the gura gura.

Marco wouldn't have been considered by the WG as "a man who could potentially take down BB", he wouldn't have been WB's right hand man and he wouldn't have just completely ignored Kaido's YC 1 and 2 if he wasn't deserving of being top tier (among the YCs).

It is true that he has yet to show exactly how strong his attacking capabilities are, and I may be in for a disappointment, but I have reason to believe he is that strong.

He didn't seem to be at Kizaru's level either in terms of dealing out damage. Defensive-wise, he'd probably last a long time against either admiral because he can recover and is a logia.

Well, Blackbeard was more than happy to take on Sengoku and the three admirals before that incident, so it is weird. Maybe he didn't want a Pyrrhic victory, or he didn't have the element of surprise when he called the Marines to get Bonney?

Yeah but that's probably an assumption from the WG. I don't see why ignoring means he's high level either, it just means he doesn't care about the two, and it makes sense given his fruit.

Neither has an anyone else bar Katakuri so I don't get your point.

Shiryuu's shown some promise, especially when he was able to take down Magellan.

But that aside, Marco shouldn't be near the top of the list if he can't beat anyone with a similar power level to his. As far as I remember, he hasn't shown the ability to deal damage, so it's weird when he gets ranked high or at all. Same with others whose powers we haven't seen, it's just all assumptions.

 

[Ramen]

Shiryuu's shown some promise, especially when he was able to take down Magellan.

Lmao "some" is your justification. Anyone >>>> Beckmann I guess.

But that aside, Marco shouldn't be near the top of the list if he can't beat anyone with a similar power level to his. As far as I remember, he hasn't shown the ability to deal damage, so it's weird when he gets ranked high or at all. Same with others whose powers we haven't seen, it's just all assumptions.

You don't become a Yonko right hand if you can't deal damage. You don't start a war if you can't deal damage lmao.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2020 ---

Well, Blackbeard was more than happy to take on Sengoku and the three admirals before that incident, so it is weird. Maybe he didn't want a Pyrrhic victory, or he didn't have the element of surprise when he called the Marines to get Bonney?

He also ran from Shanks.

 

[M3J]

Indeed, most on that list have not fought yet, or barely. It's mostly speculation.

So basically, the list for the most part is irrelevant as it's based on so little information we have.

Lmao "some" is your justification. Anyone >>>> Beckmann I guess.



You don't become a Yonko right hand if you can't deal damage. You don't start a war if you can't deal damage lmao.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2020 ---

He also ran from Shanks.

What do you mean justification? it doesn't even matter because it's based him beating Magellan, otherwise nothing to go by as well.

I mean, Marco can heal people, is almost unkillable, and has been with Whitebeard for an extremely long time. And who started a war?


I mean, it took Shanks for him to run from the war despite having three admirals, a fleet admiral, Garp, and Whitebeard pirates to deal with. And afterwards, it took one admiral for him to run. It's weird, but he probably didn't want to waste time with Akainu and risk backup coming.

 

[Nie Li]

So basically, the list for the most part is irrelevant as it's based on so little information we have.

If you want to see it that way, sure, but I think you've misunderstood the purpose of that ranking.

I was asked to rank them, and wasn't specified to only use "feats". This means it's a somewhat subjective rank that goes both by feats and justified expectations (justified by comparisons and canon hype).

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2020 ---

He didn't seem to be at Kizaru's level either in terms of dealing out damage. Defensive-wise, he'd probably last a long time against either admiral because he can recover and is a logia.

Not being on the level of an admiral isn't bad. No YC with feats is on the level of an admiral for now. Admirals are way closer to Yonkos than to their commanders.

If you want feats from how can Marco deal damage, the answer is simple: The same way as any other top tier character.

- We know that he has CoA.
- We know that he fights through his zoan, favoring a style in which he flies and kicks, which he can upgrade to "fly and slash" with his phoenix talons.
- We know he has enough strength to clash with BM and her Prometheus.

Since that feat of strength won't convince you, there's another one:

He has the strength to break Aokiji's ice blade and send him flying with a single kick with his human leg. He has superhuman strength and proper haki, and yes, on top of that he's a great support and has a regeneration power better than Wolverine's, but he's still a heavy-hitter. King or Katakuri wouldn't have managed to do more against Akainu, Aokiji or Kizaru. His support powers all the more reason why he's that high up the ranking, and this is taking into account all the data that we have on the YC's so far.

 

[I Am Atomic]

More on Vista feats:
He was able to keep up with Marco in his hybrid form to slash Akainu simultaneously. If someone like Marco is going at full speed to save Ace/Luffy, anyone who is able to keep up should be strong.

About Marco's strength. He looks like a scrawny dude compared to other YCs. However he is still a Zoan user which grants him physical strength. The flames are a bonus power on top.

 

[Ramen]

And who started a war?

......Marco.

mean, it took Shanks for him to run from the war despite having three admirals, a fleet admiral, Garp, and Whitebeard pirates to deal with. And afterwards, it took one admiral for him to run. It's weird, but he probably didn't want to waste time with Akainu and risk backup coming.

You do realize he became an enemy right by then? It would've been Shanks vs BB vs Marines.

 

[M3J]

If you want to see it that way, sure, but I think you've misunderstood the purpose of that ranking.

I was asked to rank them, and wasn't specified to only use "feats". This means it's a somewhat subjective rank that goes both by feats and justified expectations (justified by comparisons and canon hype).

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2020 ---

Not being on the level of an admiral isn't bad. No YC with feats is on the level of an admiral for now. Admirals are way closer to Yonkos than to their commanders.

If you want feats from how can Marco deal damage, the answer is simple: The same way as any other top tier character.

- We know that he has CoA.
- We know that he fights through his zoan, favoring a style in which he flies and kicks, which he can upgrade to "fly and slash" with his phoenix talons.
- We know he has enough strength to clash with BM and her Prometheus.

Since that feat of strength won't convince you, there's another one:

He has the strength to break Aokiji's ice blade and send him flying with a single kick with his human leg. He has superhuman strength and proper haki, and yes, on top of that he's a great support and has a regeneration power better than Wolverine's, but he's still a heavy-hitter. King or Katakuri wouldn't have managed to do more against Akainu, Aokiji or Kizaru. His support powers all the more reason why he's that high up the ranking, and this is taking into account all the data that we have on the YC's so far.

Not really comparing him to admirals, but whom has he beaten in the war?

......Marco.




You do realize he became an enemy right by then? It would've been Shanks vs BB vs Marines.

... when?


Er, yes. Did I not mention that?

 

[Ramen]

... when?

The payback war.

Er, yes. Did I not mention that?

Not that I saw.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

I didn't place Rayleigh because Roger was never a Yonko

Actually, Roger along side Whitebeard and Shiki where Yon-kos (emperors/rulers) (not the right word, Sanko maybe?) of the seas in the past. Big Mom slowly built her empire (in a similar way Shanks did) and joined them as Yonkos.
So Rayleigh in essence, is the strongest Yonko commander to have ever lived, Oden is a close second.

The way I see it, YCs (especially the second in command/first commander/YC1) can be nearly as strong as a Yonko themselves (Rayleigh), or on a similar level with an Admiral (Rayleigh/Oden/Beckman maybe), or slightly weaker than Admirals (Katakuri/Marco/King) or many times weaker (the rest of the YCs) but they are all damn super strong.

 

[M3J]

The payback war.



Not that I saw.

Oh I Wiki'd it and they did.

Almost as selective a reader as Hannibal Psych huh


But Marco did lose to Blackbeard pirates, sooo

 

[Ramen]

Oh I Wiki'd it and they did.

Almost as selective a reader as Hannibal Psych huh


But Marco did lose to Blackbeard pirates, sooo

But it doesn't change my original point.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2020 ---

Almost as selective a reader as Hannibal Psych huh

Is that a good thing?

 

[M3J]

It kind of does because he couldn't take down anyone, just tank attacks.

No, that's a horrible thing.

 

[Ramen]

It kind of does because he couldn't take down anyone, just tank attacks.

So why would someone who supposedly can't take down people (not true btw) challenge all 3 admirals and start a war?

 

[Nie Li]

Let's talk about this for a moment.

What YCs have actually taken someone down onscreen?

Someone with a name, not nameless marines that even my aunt can defeat.

 

[Ramen]

Let's talk about this for a moment.

What YCs have actually taken someone down onscreen?

Someone with a name, not nameless marines that even my aunt can defeat.

Literally no one.....which makes @M3J argument moot.

 

[Nie Li]

Actually, Roger along side Whitebeard and Shiki where Yon-kos (emperors/rulers) (not the right word, Sanko maybe?) of the seas in the past. Big Mom slowly built her empire (in a similar way Shanks did) and joined them as Yonkos.
So Rayleigh in essence, is the strongest Yonko commander to have ever lived, Oden is a close second.

The way I see it, YCs (especially the second in command/first commander/YC1) can be nearly as strong as a Yonko themselves (Rayleigh), or on a similar level with an Admiral (Rayleigh/Oden/Beckman maybe), or slightly weaker than Admirals (Katakuri/Marco/King) or many times weaker (the rest of the YCs) but they are all damn super strong.

We don't know when the Yonko system was created but it was likely after Roger's execution. They were emperors of sorts but I excluded him just for semantics.

Otherwise, yeah, I agree about the power rankings you've said.

 

[M3J]

So why would someone who supposedly can't take down people (not true btw) challenge all 3 admirals and start a war?

Because he can tank attacks and has his crew to help him? I mean, Kizaru shot a hole through him when Marco couldn't use his fruit, but after he got the cuffs off, he healed.

Let's talk about this for a moment.

What YCs have actually taken someone down onscreen?

Someone with a name, not nameless marines that even my aunt can defeat.

I'm talking about fodders during the Marineford War, where Whitebeard, admirals, and I think even vice admirals took down enemies.

Why are you bringing a real person into a fictional story? wtf

 

[Nie Li]

I'm talking about fodders during the Marineford War, where Whitebeard, admirals, and I think even vice admirals took down enemies.

Taking down fodders? I don't remember especifically if or how he defeated fodders but he went around attacking admirals (without much success, but that's expected from most YC, including Katakuri) and Akainu called him and Vista "annoying opponents" because they are "haki (CoA) users".

I think it's a guarantee that Marco can mow down normal marines if he didn't do so already in any panel (I honestly don't remember, I didn't pay specific attention to that detail).

Why are you bringing a real person into a fictional story? wtf

That wasn't serious. It's a common thing at least in Spanish. Like saying "Even my grandma can do that". In this case to mean that even the weakest character can take down nameless marine fodders.