One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LadyVados]

I will never get why people rate Law so highly. His best feat is 2v1ing Vergo.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2020 ---

Anyway my ranking of the alliance members-

1. Luffy/Zoro
2. Zoro/Luffy
3. Kidd/Law
4. Law/Kidd
5. Killer/Marco
6. Marco/Killer
7. Inuarashi/Nekomamushi
8. Nekomamushi/Inuarashi
9. Denjiro
10. Shutenmaru
11. Yamato
12. Kiku
13. Izo
14. XDrake
15. Kawamasu
16. Jinbe
17. Sanji/Robin
18. Robin/Sanji
19. Franky
20. Brook/Raizo/Kinemon/Carrot/Wanda

 

[Pirate Queen]

5. Killer/Marco
6. Marco/Killer

Imagine questioning MY ranking and then pulling nonsense like this

 

[LadyVados]

Imagine questioning MY ranking and then pulling nonsense like this

Spoiler: 1000

I'm assuming he's going to do some serious damage to Kaido or Big Mom and tank some Thunder Baguas/Ikkoku Sovereignties

 

[Fox666]

I'm genuinely curious as to why some people forget Apoo did this

While they put this feat on a pedestal

And even claim that Apoo was defeated by Zoro, despite him still standing in the next chapter

IMHO Apoo seems far more impressive since he got the better of both Luffy and Zoro at once, while the opposite is true for Zoro who fought alongside Drake against a single opponent

Isn't the author trying to tell us that Zoro probably couldn't fight Apoo 1-on-1?

 

[Pirate Queen]

I'm genuinely curious as to why some people forget Apoo did this

While they put this feat on a pedestal

And even claim that Apoo was defeated by Zoro, despite him still standing in the next chapter

IMHO Apoo seems far more impressive since he got the better of both Luffy and Zoro at once, while the opposite is true for Zoro who fought alongside Drake against a single opponent

Isn't the author trying to tell us that Zoro probably couldn't fight Apoo 1-on-1?

I'm backing this. If Apoo's explosion hit Zoro instead of Luffy... Zoro would still be heavily injured. I've made my points in the vs thread so I won't repeat here.

Apoo = Zoro in a 1v1. Zoro may be heavily at a disadvantage against Apoo's technique, but he can cover his ears and use his mouth sword to unleash some attacks that may he effective vs Apoo.

I'd give it to Zoro only because he is more important than Apoo. Not due to individual strengths.

 

[Crimson Ice]

I will never get why people rate Law so highly. His best feat is 2v1ing Vergo.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2020 ---

Anyway my ranking of the alliance members-

1. Luffy/Zoro
2. Zoro/Luffy
3. Kidd/Law
4. Law/Kidd
5. Killer/Marco
6. Marco/Killer
7. Inuarashi/Nekomamushi
8. Nekomamushi/Inuarashi
9. Denjiro
10. Shutenmaru
11. Yamato
12. Kiku
13. Izo
14. XDrake
15. Kawamasu
16. Jinbe
17. Sanji/Robin
18. Robin/Sanji
19. Franky
20. Brook/Raizo/Kinemon/Carrot/Wanda

That list is.....all types of messed up, like goodness.

 

[LadyVados]

I'm genuinely curious as to why some people forget Apoo did this

While they put this feat on a pedestal

And even claim that Apoo was defeated by Zoro, despite him still standing in the next chapter

IMHO Apoo seems far more impressive since he got the better of both Luffy and Zoro at once, while the opposite is true for Zoro who fought alongside Drake against a single opponent

Isn't the author trying to tell us that Zoro probably couldn't fight Apoo 1-on-1?

Queen was standing next chapter after being beaten by Big Mom.

You’re not seriously suggesting Queen = or even > Big Mom are you ?

 

[Fox666]

I'm backing this. If Apoo's explosion hit Zoro instead of Luffy... Zoro would still be heavily injured. I've made my points in the vs thread so I won't repeat here.

Apoo = Zoro in a 1v1. Zoro may be heavily at a disadvantage against Apoo's technique, but he can cover his ears and use his mouth sword to unleash some attacks that may he effective vs Apoo.

I'd give it to Zoro only because he is more important than Apoo. Not due to individual strengths.

Apoo is competent on hand-to-hand combat, and managed to hold against both Zoro and Drake at once for a while.

Shouldn't he be capable of defeating Zoro if the later could only use the sword on his mouth?

It seems Apoo can even use his musical attacks while fighting with his tonfas:

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2020 ---

Queen was standing next chapter after being beaten by Big Mom.

You’re not seriously suggesting Queen = or even > Big Mom are you ?

I don't remember Queen bringing Big Mom down to her knees and forcing her to retreat from the battlefield

 

[LadyVados]

I don't remember Queen bringing Big Mom down to her knees and forcing her to retreat from the battlefield

No he knocked her out and chained her up...

Zoro wasn’t forced to retreat, he only retreated because Luffy was hurt and in danger

 

[HereNThere]

Spoiler: Chapter 1000

I had my doubts who was stronger between Luffy and Marco for the Alliance side but this chapter cleared all doubts.
My top alliance members as followed:

1. Luffy
2. Marco
3.Jinbei
4.Yamato
5. Law
6. Kidd
7. XDrake
8.Zoro
9.Sanji/Killer
10. Killer/Sanji

This is a pretty reasonable assessment of the current situation. At the very least, the list is full of people who should be the top 10 participants on the Alliance's side in terms of sheer combat ability.

As the fights kick off, I suspect some major shifts though.

 

[Shasha23]

I will never get why people rate Law so highly. His best feat is 2v1ing Vergo.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2020 ---

Anyway my ranking of the alliance members-

1. Luffy/Zoro
2. Zoro/Luffy
3. Kidd/Law
4. Law/Kidd
5. Killer/Marco
6. Marco/Killer
7. Inuarashi/Nekomamushi
8. Nekomamushi/Inuarashi
9. Denjiro
10. Shutenmaru
11. Yamato
12. Kiku
13. Izo
14. XDrake
15. Kawamasu
16. Jinbe
17. Sanji/Robin
18. Robin/Sanji
19. Franky
20. Brook/Raizo/Kinemon/Carrot/Wanda

its more like this though :

Luffy
Kid
Marco
Zoro
Law
X Drake
Jinbe
Killer
Yamato
Kinemon
Denjiro
Ashura
Kawamatsu
Inuarashi
Nekomamushi
Sanji
Izo
Raizo
Kiku
Franky

This are the top 20 currently, with the characters highlighted being out of commission or wont be fighting anytime soon.

 

[M3J]

Queen was standing next chapter after being beaten by Big Mom.

You’re not seriously suggesting Queen = or even > Big Mom are you ?

Why are you comparing a Supernova dealing damage to two other SUpernovas to an Emperor commander taking one blow from an Emperor? Apoo has a weird power that allowed him to deal damage, and no one is immune from blade-like attacks unless they use haki. didn't Big Mom just use a blunt attack on Queen? That's easier to withstand.

 

[LadyVados]

Why are you comparing a Supernova dealing damage to two other SUpernovas to an Emperor commander taking one blow from an Emperor? Apoo has a weird power that allowed him to deal damage, and no one is immune from blade-like attacks unless they use haki. didn't Big Mom just use a blunt attack on Queen? That's easier to withstand.

I didn't know that all supernovas had to be on the same level of power

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2020 ---

its more like this though :

Luffy
Kid
Marco
Zoro
Law
X Drake
Jinbe
Killer
Yamato
Kinemon
Denjiro
Ashura
Kawamatsu
Inuarashi
Nekomamushi
Sanji
Izo
Raizo
Kiku
Franky

This are the top 20 currently, with the characters highlighted being out of commission or wont be fighting anytime soon.

Kidd did less damage to Apoo under the same circumstances, that's Oda's clear way of telling Kidd < Zoro

 

[Pirate Queen]

Both Kidd and Zoro attacked Apoo. He got back up after both attacks.

He was unaware of Zoro's attack but had time to acknowledge Kidd before Kidd hit him.

A very clear difference between scenarios

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2020 ---

its more like this though :

Luffy
Kid
Marco
Zoro
Law
X Drake
Jinbe
Killer
Yamato
Kinemon
Denjiro
Ashura
Kawamatsu
Inuarashi
Nekomamushi
Sanji
Izo
Raizo
Kiku
Franky

This are the top 20 currently, with the characters highlighted being out of commission or wont be fighting anytime soon.

While I disagree with your Marco and Kidd placement, I'm glad Kidd still garners respect in the fandom. I haven't seen much praise for him. Right on!

 

[Crimson Ice]

Sanji is weaker than the scabbards now? LMFAO. I understand if you said Denjiro or Ashura but Sanji is weaker than Kinemon now? And where did this Killer praise come from? Buddy barely managed to scrape a draw again Zoro who was fighting someone else and had only two swords.


And the only person that should be debatably above Marco is Luffy.

 

[M3J]

I didn't know that all supernovas had to be on the same level of power

nowhere did I say same level of power, but they likely have similar level of power that bar Luffy, none of them should beat each other without difficulty or being challenged.

 

[HereNThere]

none of them should beat each other without difficulty or being challenged.

Yeah, Wano has made it decently clear that the majority of them are pretty much comparable and pose a threat to one another if they aren't serious.

 

[Kato756]

nowhere did I say same level of power, but they likely have similar level of power that bar Luffy, none of them should beat each other without difficulty or being challenged.

I agree, but I also think that now we are getting into Endgame-tier of power, that there will be key differences. That the specific powers and match-ups will matter more.

Like maybe with Armament Bege might have the best defense in the SNovas, while Uroge has the best counter, Luffy has the best blunt dmg, and so on.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2020 ---

Sanji is weaker than the scabbards now? LMFAO. I understand if you said Denjiro or Ashura but Sanji is weaker than Kinemon now? And where did this Killer praise come from? Buddy barely managed to scrape a draw again Zoro who was fighting someone else and had only two swords.


And the only person that should be debatably above Marco is Luffy.

I mean, Ashura Douji was able to speed blitz JACK, a Calamity.

Neko and Inu were able to go even with Jack, and defeat him with seemngli no serious injuries in Sulong.

Raizou was able to deflect Kaidou´s fire atttack.

Sanji needed the Raid Suit to speed blitz a Tobi Roppo, and needed to be saved by Shinobu from Kaidou´s drunk fire attack.


I 100% believe that some base Akazaya are stronger than base sanji. Raid suit needs more feats for proper evaluation.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2020 ---

I will never get why people rate Law so highly. His best feat is 2v1ing Vergo.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2020 ---

Anyway my ranking of the alliance members-

1. Luffy/Zoro
2. Zoro/Luffy
3. Kidd/Law
4. Law/Kidd
5. Killer/Marco
6. Marco/Killer
7. Inuarashi/Nekomamushi
8. Nekomamushi/Inuarashi
9. Denjiro
10. Shutenmaru
11. Yamato
12. Kiku
13. Izo
14. XDrake
15. Kawamasu
16. Jinbe
17. Sanji/Robin
18. Robin/Sanji
19. Franky
20. Brook/Raizo/Kinemon/Carrot/Wanda

The thing is that his power is flat out broken until we get a proper explanation to how it works.

While I think it should be the obvious and simple solution of "He can´t cut those whose haki is stronger than his", and even if it isn´t that I´m sure his limits will be shown in the comming fight.

But we absolutely NEED those to properly evaluate Law, be it pushing him upwards or downwards.

However, with him being set as one of Luffy´s "Rivals/Friends", like in the 23rd opening and Sabaody with Kidd, I can see why people expect him to be this powerfull

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2020 ---

I'm genuinely curious as to why some people forget Apoo did this

While they put this feat on a pedestal

And even claim that Apoo was defeated by Zoro, despite him still standing in the next chapter

IMHO Apoo seems far more impressive since he got the better of both Luffy and Zoro at once, while the opposite is true for Zoro who fought alongside Drake against a single opponent

Isn't the author trying to tell us that Zoro probably couldn't fight Apoo 1-on-1?

As I said above, matchups are getting more and more important now.

Trickster type fighters are very hard to evaluate when talking about powerscaling.

I mean, should Bonney be able to touch you, its a instant win for her.
She can one-shot Akainu, Imu, Luffy, Roger, Rocks.

Is she the topstet of tiers? OFC not.

I think the thing with Appo is that he is even harder to evaluate, I mean:

-His attacks were able to damage post-enma post-prision Zoro/Luffy. That is not a small feat, at all.
-His attacks have a WIDE range and variety of uses.
-Its unknow how A-Haki interacts with his powers
-Once you know his trick, its pretty fucking easy to not get damaged by his attacks
-At the same time, however, defending from his attacks does not leave you in a good fighting stance (covering your ears)
-This does open a possibility for melee attacks on Appoos part, but how proficient is he?
-He did block Zoro and Drake at the same time.
-However, it is heavily implied that Zoro was holding back. This does not invalidate his earlier block, but it does make it harder to rank it.

I´d say its currently impossible to rank appoo

 

[HereNThere]

Sanji needed the Raid Suit to speed blitz a Tobi Roppo, and needed to be saved by Shinobu from Kaidou´s drunk fire attack.

Eh, in terms of your first point, Sanji didn't need to use his Raid Suit against Page One. He just used that fight as an opportunity to test it out and hide his identity. We don't know how his base speed compares to a Tobi Roppo.

 

[M3J]

I agree, but I also think that now we are getting into Endgame-tier of power, that there will be key differences. That the specific powers and match-ups will matter more.

Like maybe with Armament Bege might have the best defense in the SNovas, while Uroge has the best counter, Luffy has the best blunt dmg, and so on.

Honestly, it's almost always been about matchups, it's just that Luffy's rubber body was best suited to take on enemies over any other Straw Hat. Enel's electricity vs. Luffy's rubber body? LUcci's shigan vs. Luffy's rubber body?