One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LadyVados]

Is it just based on the fact that they are high ranking members of the WG?

Pretty much

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2021 ---

My take on Mihawk... hopefully this doesnt get taken down.
People believe he is equal to or stronger than the Yonko likes of Shanks and BM. For a few reasons, he was stated to duel younger Pre-Yonko Shanks when the latter had 2 arms but after he lost an arm, Mihawk lost interest in their duels. People think becuase of that Mihawk > Shanks. Oda, stated that even though Shanks lost an arm, he never lost strength, so Mihawk > 1 arm Shanks is NOT true. If anything Shanks > Mihawk, because Shanks became Yonko soon after.

Another reason is hype. Mihawk has not been shown to be on the same level as the Yonko whenever he makes an appearance. Sengoku during the MF War still thought there was a chance that they would lose vs WB, even though the Navy HQ had 3 Admirals and Mihawk present. Mihawk was stalled by Jozu, Vista, Crocodile, and Mr. 1. Hard to believe that BM or Kaido in normal conditions (not drunk or hungry), would be bother by any of them.

Mihawk is extremely powerful but not Yonko powerful. Just because he is portrayed as Zolo's last opponent does not mean he is above other characters who have shown better feats than Mihawk.

1. I believe the Shanks never got weaker statement is fake news. It was made up by someone years ago and has been spread throughout the one piece community. Oda never said it. Also even if were true and Shanks didn’t get weaker in terms of raw strength, having one less limb is a disadvantage, fighting wise.
2. Akainu and Aokiji who are universally considered Yonko level were also stalled by similar opponents in the war. Oda hadn’t really figured out his powerscaling then. I’d argue Mihawk’s first appearance was the biggest hype any character has ever gotten.
3. Marco stalled Big Mom, is it so far-fetched that Jozu and Vista could have done the same. Also Vista >> Kinemon.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2021 ---

Even the Vivre Card provided an erroneous timeline of when Shanks became a Yonko.

This is also fake news.
Also as to your point if someone kills Mihawk. If Shilliew kills Mihawk I will rate him above Big Mom and Shanks too. Shilliew beating Mihawk won’t prove Mihawk was only YC level it’ll prove Shilliew is strong.

Also in Baratie, Mihawk slapped Zoro does that mean that whole dual was invalid.

At the end of the day One Piece was intended for children. If you have a sword you lose to Mihawk. There is no need to get into complex theological decisions on what is or is not a swordsman or what Mihawk’s title means.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Vivre Cards heavily implied Shanks was a Yonko prior to meeting Luffy.

That much is true and later turned out to be false.

Most of Mihawk's hype came from Mihawk fans assuming Mihawk dueled Shanks as a Yonko, but it turned out not to be the case.

Mihawk seeks someone stronger than Shanks... but stopped fighting Shanks before the 4 years it took him to rise to the rank of Yonko at that point. Unless your going to imply in the 4 years prior to Shanks becoming a Yonko he didn't gain any more strength.

2 conflicting bits of Info from their vivre cards.

Or as some would say Shanks spent those 4 years trading in his sword to study and practice diplomacy

 

[LadyVados]

Vivre Cards heavily implied Shanks was a Yonko prior to meeting Luffy.

So your whole reasoning for the vivre cards not being valid is what you think one of them implied ?

 

[Pirate Queen]

So your whole reasoning for the vivre cards not being valid is what you think one of them implied ?

Did you see me write that? Or did you see me write that some "facts" were misleading?

I'll give you a hint, the second one.

Redirect Notice

Here you go. The corrections that were made because the vivrecards got a few things wrong and corrections had to be made

How embarrassing for you lol

 

[LadyVados]

Did you see me write that? Or did you see me write that some "facts" were misleading?

I'll give you a hint, the second one.

The only false info ever contained in a databook is once when in passing one of them mentions that Sabo was dead. And that is easily explainable as Oda not wanting to spoil anyone.

Unless it is revealed that Shanks always won all of his duels with Mihawk and he just let him have the WSS title as a plot twist (something which was actually suggested to me by someone who thinks Cracker > Mihawk... but not Smoothie interestingly... I wonder why...) I do not see Mihawk’s entries turning out to be false. And if that were to happen, that would just mean Zoro would fight Shanks.

Also it could be argued that Sabo was dead in a way...

 

[Pirate Queen]

The only false info ever contained in a databook is once when in passing one of them mentions that Sabo was dead. And that is easily explainable as Oda not wanting to spoil anyone.

Redirect Notice

Take your L, please

 

[LadyVados]

Redirect Notice

Take your L, please

Those were accidental mistakes that were subsequently corrected. Oda listed a height for Oars and realised it was unrealistic and changed it, big deal. Oda changed the phrasing of a sentence related to Lucci, not really relevant.

Again the vivre card never said Shanks was a Yonko. Implication is subjective.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Those were accidental mistakes that were subsequently corrected. Oda listed a height for Oars and realised it was unrealistic and changed it, big deal. Oda changed the phrasing of a sentence related to Lucci, not really relevant.

Again the vivre card never said Shanks was a Yonko. Implication is subjective.

They had to go out of their way to correct it. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

To Oda it was important enough to correct. At this point your not arguing with me you are arguing with Oda, and thats just ridiculous

 

[albertwv]

CHANGE OF SUBJECT.......PLEASEE
Let's talk about Dressrosa fights and fighters

How strong is Bartolomeo? He defeated VA Maynard fairly easy but took some damage versus Gladius, mostly because he was defending Robin.
Could Barto defeat Cavendish or even VA Bastille?

 

[Pirate Queen]

CHANGE OF SUBJECT.......PLEASEE
Let's talk about Dressrosa fights and fighters

How strong is Bartolomeo? He defeated VA Maynard fairly easy but took some damage versus Gladius, mostly because he was defending Robin.
Could Barto defeat Cavendish or even VA Bastille?

Your the one that got the swordbois all pissy

I got your back tho lol.

To answer your question... I thin Barto's df is broken so until we see a weakness yes
Ot the fight ends without a decisive victory.

 

[LadyVados]

CHANGE OF SUBJECT.......PLEASEE
Let's talk about Dressrosa fights and fighters

How strong is Bartolomeo? He defeated VA Maynard fairly easy but took some damage versus Gladius, mostly because he was defending Robin.
Could Barto defeat Cavendish or even VA Bastille?

I think Bastille and Maynard should be similar in strength so maybe.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2021 ---

They had to go out of their way to correct it. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

To Oda it was important enough to correct. At this point your not arguing with me you are arguing with Oda, and thats just ridiculous

Yet Oda didn’t correct the Mihawk statement... maybe because there’s nothing to correct. Also swordboi is a slur, please don’t use it. Anyway that’s my last statement on the matter.



I was thinking of changing the subject too, do you guys think Luffy is in the top 10 pirates right now ?

IMO he should be (assuming no totally unknown quantities like Shakky or Scopper Gaban or Shiki if he’s still alive)

My list goes something like this right now-

1. I’d rather not say
2. Kaido/Meme
3. Meme/Kaido
4. Shanks
5. Aokiji
6. BB
7. Rayleigh
8. Beckmann
9. Luffy/Hancock
10. Hancock/Luffy

 

[albertwv]

I know I know, i apologize for riling them up haha

Barto has one weakness we know so far and that is that he cant use many barriers at once. If anything he cant use more than one barrier at a time and it cant cover a huge area. Barto was afraid Pica wouldve knocked them down when they were jumping on rooftops.

Bastille is defintely stronger than Maynard as he sees Maynard as a rookie. I personally think Maynard shouldve been a Rear Admiral instead of VA. He made the VAs look like fodder.
Vergo would most likely crush Barto, if he could get past the barrier

Also, the list seems fine unless the 1 spot is the person who barely defeated Aokiji. Also Aokiji above BB, that doesnt make sense when Aokiji joined underneath BB.

One more thing, I think Akainu and Aokiji are close equals to Akainu being a little bit stronger of course, but if you think about it, how the hell did Aokiji an Ice man last 10 days vs Aokiji the Lava Man. Aokiji must have a really strong haki defense and offense.

 

[LadyVados]

I know I know, i apologize for riling them up haha

Barto has one weakness we know so far and that is that he cant use many barriers at once. If anything he cant use more than one barrier at a time and it cant cover a huge area. Barto was afraid Pica wouldve knocked them down when they were jumping on rooftops.

Bastille is defintely stronger than Maynard as he sees Maynard as a rookie. I personally think Maynard shouldve been a Rear Admiral instead of VA. He made the VAs look like fodder.
Vergo would most likely crush Barto, if he could get past the barrier

Also, the list seems fine unless the 1 spot is the person who barely defeated Aokiji. Also Aokiji above BB, that doesnt make sense when Aokiji joined underneath BB.

One more thing, I think Akainu and Aokiji are close equals to Akainu being a little bit stronger of course, but if you think about it, how the hell did Aokiji an Ice man last 10 days vs Aokiji the Lava Man. Aokiji must have a really strong haki defense and offense.

Honestly even Pre-TS Drake was a rear admiral. Maynard is definitely stronger than him.

Bastille really doesn’t strike me as a mid-range VA like Onigumo or Dalmatian or Momonga or Vergo. At best he’s a low mid range VA like Smoker. He was stomped easily and we’ll probably never see him again. He’s no big player.

It’s not Akainu, it’s a list of pirates and former warlords only.

I guess part of the reason I rate Aokiji above BB is because I’m a big Aokiji fanboy but honestly BB doesn’t have the feats to be put above him yet. That could change in later arcs. But something about the way he ran away from Aokiji’s equal Akainu...

I don’t think him joining him necessarily means he’s weaker than him.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2021 ---

My Dressrosa/Punk Hazard arc powerscaling- Doffy > Luffy > Law > Pica > Vergo > Trebol ~ Robin ~ Kyros > Diamanté >>>>> Hakuba >> Bartolomew > Dellinger >>> Maynard

Zoro >>>>>> Pica

Vergo >> Smoker > Tashigi ~ Judge’s Son

Honestly looking back I think Zoro was already insanely strong as of Dressrosa. The way he clashed with Fuji and the way Chinjao, a man who fought Prime Garp looked at him in awe...

 

[I Am Atomic]

CHANGE OF SUBJECT.......PLEASEE
Let's talk about Dressrosa fights and fighters

How strong is Bartolomeo? He defeated VA Maynard fairly easy but took some damage versus Gladius, mostly because he was defending Robin.
Could Barto defeat Cavendish or even VA Bastille?

Do you think the barrier can withstand any amount of damage without breaking?

Personally, I think it should block every single attacks in the series no matter who it is. Otherwise, the whole purpose of the fruits ability becomes useless. This is the only way the fruit can be considered OP.

P.s. it's my favourite ability in one piece series (hence my name barrier)

 

[Pirate Queen]

Do you think the barrier can withstand any amount of damage without breaking?

Personally, I think it should block every single attacks in the series no matter who it is. Otherwise, the whole purpose of the fruits ability becomes useless. This is the only way the fruit can be considered OP.

P.s. it's my favourite ability in one piece series (hence my name barrier)

Do you think Law can us the Ope Ope no mo to penetrate it? Also Luffy's internal damage haki is meant to bypass barriers so that's also a possible way to attack Barto directly.

Those are the only 2 abilities I can think of

 

[LadyVados]

Do you think the barrier can withstand any amount of damage without breaking?

Personally, I think it should block every single attacks in the series no matter who it is. Otherwise, the whole purpose of the fruits ability becomes useless. This is the only way the fruit can be considered OP.

P.s. it's my favourite ability in one piece series (hence my name barrier)

It could withstand Oden’s sword slashes, there are few things more powerful in the One Piece world.

 

[Nie Li]

And Oden supposedly used the same haki Luffy is using now, so that's that.

We also know from Vergo that Law's slashes can't bypass durability he wouldn't be able to pierce otherwise, so it has nothing on the barrier. Perfect defense it is until something cracks it in the story.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2021 ---

Luffy himself said he wants to take on the Yonkou in Punk Hazard and was upset when Usopp said Luffy could become the Pirate King without needing to clash with the Yonkou. He wants to fight them, and not just because they're obstacles.

I'm using Whis's logic. But also, it doesn't make sense for Luffy to not take out the strongest person, according to Whis's logic, as he's trying to be as strong as possible to protect his loved ones. Otherwise as long as Luffy takes out at least one Emperor, it doesn't really matter because he has to show he can challenge an Emperor and not lose outright. I think we agree here.

Zoro's dream is to be the strongest swordsman, not the strongest fighter. Him going against people who aren't swordsmen or fight primarily or solely with swords doesn't help him much, and to boot, Zoro has almost always gone up against sword users. Plus, Mihawk's title is the World's Strongest Swordsman or whatever, it's not World's Strongest Fighter. Swordsman is specific enough for me to acknowledge that Mihawk's renown for his swordsmanship, not for fighting in general.

Shanks is an Emperor though, so it's not hard to believe he's at least strong enough to compete with the other Emperors, especially with his tiny crew. If Kaidou for example wasn't an Emperor, I wouldn't consider him strong enough unless proven otherwise even with the WOrld's Strongest Creature or something as his title.

If BIg Mom beat Mihawk and used everything in her arsenal that wasn't related to swords to win, I wouldn't consider her the superior swordsman unless she was still using swords. That's all it is to me, fighting using that skill, probably with devil fruit involved as well.

If Luffy beat Mihawk on Marineford for example, would you consider Luffy the World's Strongest Swordsman as result?




Irrelevant. Especially when Jinbei is still a powerhouse who can deal out damage in different ways, as he did against a surprised Luffy.

Who else is strong enough to take on Kaidou or Big Mom without dying within a minute?

I don't want to ignore this, so I'll properly answer it in PM.

 

[Pirate Queen]

And Oden supposedly used the same haki Luffy is using now, so that's that.

We also know from Vergo that Law's slashes can't bypass durability he wouldn't be able to pierce otherwise, so it has nothing on the barrier. Perfect defense it is until something cracks it in the story.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2021 ---

I don't want to ignore this, so I'll properly answer it in PM.

Luffy didn't use internal damage haki. He used Ryou. Internal damage haki should be able to bypass the barrier

And Law could simply shambles Barto out of the barrier if possible.

 

[Nie Li]

Luffy didn't use internal damage haki. He used Ryou. Internal damage haki should be able to bypass the barrier

I don't even know what you mean: Luffy used internal damage, which is a type of ryou.

Either way, why "should" it be able to bypass the barrier?

Internal damage is about damaging internally, and we have no reason to believe it would break it. It's not about passing through to a target behind what you hit, so how would it bypass it? And if it really worked that way and the damage could just bypass the barrier, Barto usually never stands in direct contact with his barriers, so he would be safe.

And Law could simply shambles Barto out of the barrier if possible.

That is true, there's no reason why it wouldn't work. Law can't damage the barrier but he can do that.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2021 ---

If we're talking about ignoring the barrier rather than damaging it, then Señor Pink probably can do it too.

 

[Shasha23]

Irrelevant. Especially when Jinbei is still a powerhouse who can deal out damage in different ways, as he did against a surprised Luffy.

Who else is strong enough to take on Kaidou or Big Mom without dying within a minute?

Its not irrelevant since this is the narrative Oda is taking/using.
There are others besides Jinbe, characters like Sanji, Marco, Yamato, Drake, Franky, and Robin not to forget the 9RS who are only down for now

This is why you can't just dismiss the narrative as irrelevant, the 5 up there are not only strong enough to win but they are the only people who can win