One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

People like to forget facts. but prove me wrong here, did Zoro take damage from Ryuuma? From anyone else?

But it's also about taking damage. Sanji is a tank too, I don't get why we're ignoring tha.t

Zoro didn't take damage from Ryuuma (literally none at all) but he took heavy damage from Oars. More than Sanji, as he took a direct kick by him that sent him flying and almost KOed him.

From there he also tanked the sum of Luffy's damage and pain (a Luffy that was already KO from the hits from Moria and Oars + the recoil from being "Nightmare Luffy").

Sanji is very resilient, even by One Piece standards, but he's not the tank that Zoro is. Oda has gone out of his way to highlight that trait in Zoro in separate arcs, but never in Sanji, even if it's obvious that he's, of course, tanky.

 

[M3J]

Zoro didn't take damage from Ryuuma (literally none at all) but he took heavy damage from Oars. More than Sanji, as he took a direct kick by him that sent him flying and almost KOed him.

From there he also tanked the sum of Luffy's damage and pain (a Luffy that was already KO from the hits from Moria and Oars + the recoil from being "Nightmare Luffy").

Sanji is very resilient, even by One Piece standards, but he's not the tank that Zoro is. Oda has gone out of his way to highlight that trait in Zoro in separate arcs, but never in Sanji, even if it's obvious that he's, of course, tanky.

I'm talking about before taking on Luffy's pain and exhaustion, and the fights and damage Zoro and Sanji took up until Kuma.

Though I'd have to agree that Zoro is a tank on a whole nother level, but I also can't really agree that Zoro is levels above Sanji.

 

[I Am Atomic]

did Zoro take damage from Ryuuma? From anyone else?

Just went and skimmed through the battles.
Yes. He got hit by Oars twice! But so did Sanji. However, Zoro got hit by Kuma twice and Sanji only once (Ursa Shock).

and even stood up at the end despite taking even more damage. He probably took more damage than Zoro

I am not going to speculate who took more damage because it's not stated in the manga and we could argue for pages. But I also don't see why you think Sanji took more damage. Sanji got damage from Absalom, but Zoro got hit by Kuma! How do we calculate?

Just to make it clear, I am not debating about who took more damage. In the end, Oda chose Zoro to tank all of Luffy's pain and fatigue, not Sanji!

 

[M3J]

Just went and skimmed through the battles.
Yes. He got hit by Oars twice! But so did Sanji. However, Zoro got hit by Kuma twice and Sanji only once (Ursa Shock).


I am not going to speculate who took more damage because it's not stated in the manga and we could argue for pages. But I also don't see why you think Sanji took more damage. Sanji got damage from Absalom, but Zoro got hit by Kuma! How do we calculate?

Just to make it clear, I am not debating about who took more damage. In the end, Oda chose Zoro to tank all of Luffy's pain and fatigue, not Sanji!

But Sanji took damage from Oars too, and I"ve said Zoro took brutal hits from Oars. I'm asking about before that. I don't remember Kuma hitting Zoro after Sanji was knocked out, though.

Depends? But I understand what you two are trying to say here.

 

[kkck]

Zoro didn't take damage from Ryuuma (literally none at all) but he took heavy damage from Oars. More than Sanji, as he took a direct kick by him that sent him flying and almost KOed him.

From there he also tanked the sum of Luffy's damage and pain (a Luffy that was already KO from the hits from Moria and Oars + the recoil from being "Nightmare Luffy").

Sanji is very resilient, even by One Piece standards, but he's not the tank that Zoro is. Oda has gone out of his way to highlight that trait in Zoro in separate arcs, but never in Sanji, even if it's obvious that he's, of course, tanky.

In general it's actually rare for characters to not have tankiness corresponding to their overall tier... Which is why fights can apparently drag on and on after a certain point. As in, ace and jinbe lasted for days, luffy and doflamingo fought for hours apparently and the battle was ultimately of attrition, jack fought non stop for 3 days against the mink... There certainly are variations but characters deviating in terms of durability is rare. Even cracker, who specifically presented him as a sort of glass cannon, fought an entire night and it took a circumstantial gear 4 attack which torpedoed cracker through his own army and a mountain to take him down.

 

[Aliocha]

They both received the same amount of damage from Oars, I think there is no way to quantify that. In fact looking at the fight panels it seems that Chopper and Ussop suffered the same damage as the two.

But in the end zoro had the best resistance performance thanks to the interaction with Kuma

Now against Absalom Sanji really had the dorsal part of his body crossed by a blade where the lungs and other important organs are, I think Oda must have just forgotten about it, because even by One Piece standards that should be a type of wound fatal

 

[M3J]

I don't think Oda did, he probably wanted to show that Sanji could tank it or that it wasn't that serious, and I'm leaning on the latter. He only shows Zoro getting serious wounds that still affect him chapters/arcs later, which even Luffy hasn't experienced.

 

[Crimson Ice]

THe funny thing about Sanji is that in his intro arc, he literally let himself get beaten up by Pearl despite doing well against him simply because Zeff's life was on the line, which made him unable to beat Gin. And yet despite all that, Gin couldn't kill Sanji because of Sanji's kindness, and he saved Sanji or Luffy when Krieg tried to poison them.

And while Sanji took a mild beating from Khalifa, he was still able to take on Jabura and win. Dude disappeared near the end but he thought ahead and got the gates closed so the crew could make it out safely.

He also took a lot of damage against Absalom and still fought Oars, and even stood up at the end despite taking even more damage. He probably took more damage than Zoro, which is why Zoro's hit knocked him out, but Sanji was one of the few still standing.

Sanji's severely underestimated and trolled. Dude's still a part of the Monster Trio, if not Quartet now, and he's still an extremely formidable fighter, especially for someone whose main role isn't a fighter.

I doubt it’s even the monster quartet, Oda seems consistent with keeping it the monster trio. If One Piece was huge back in the day we definitely would have had to sit through a bunch of Franky>Sanji takes during the start of Enis Lobby and Robin>Sanji after Alabsta. People are either extremely fickle with Sanji or their basis for a certain character clouds their judgement on him.

 

[XXGenesis]

I doubt it’s even the monster quartet, Oda seems consistent with keeping it the monster trio. If One Piece was huge back in the day we definitely would have had to sit through a bunch of Franky>Sanji takes during the start of Enis Lobby and Robin>Sanji after Alabsta. People are either extremely fickle with Sanji or their basis for a certain character clouds their judgement on him.

Sanji being a joke is what’s consistent PTS.

His ranking Pre TS was solidified he was weaker or even to Zoro. When Sanji fought the #3 he seemed to be weaker, but would have other Unique feats, & skills to add to his character throughout the arc or the next.

Post Time skip the ambiguity can only last for so long when 2/3 of the trio is kicking ass taking names and The last 1/3 has become a high point of contention for the Series as Sanji’s character has done NOTHING! Besides reveal his background & lineage, which he doesn’t even live up to.

Idk why Oda has forsaken Sanji so, but giving him Jack as his opponent in Wano, after Jack got owned by The Minks, just continues the disrespect.

 

[M3J]

I doubt it’s even the monster quartet, Oda seems consistent with keeping it the monster trio. If One Piece was huge back in the day we definitely would have had to sit through a bunch of Franky>Sanji takes during the start of Enis Lobby and Robin>Sanji after Alabsta. People are either extremely fickle with Sanji or their basis for a certain character clouds their judgement on him.

Would make sense. It's weird that Franky did well against Luffy on Water 7, but he wasn't part of the trio. THis could be because Oda plans to keep Sanji as part of the trio and won't add Jinbei, because Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji are the original trio?

 

[albertwv]

Jack vs Sanji? Seems right match up. I would prefer they both were at full power not damaged before they faced off but thats not the case now.
I remember there was a certain someone thinking Sanji would face King and Zolo would face Orochi. Idk where that person is now.
Anyways, there is a big discussion about how strong the 9RS are compared to the 5SN fighting 2 Yonko.

9RS have gotten hype because they were able to damage Kaido, but were they really able to? They were able to cut him a few times, but he quickly turned the tables when we he went back to human form. Now, Kaido is taking the SN seriously by going Hybrid form.
9RS are a mix from VA level to 2nd YC level I say.
Minks and Ashura Doji seem to be the strongest and able to fight evenly with a 3rd YC.
Denjiro was able to only temporarily block Zolo but we cant determine much after that since they both did not go on to a full serious fight, but my money was on Zolo. I would say Denjiro was 3rd YC level as well.
Kawatmatsu, Izo, Kiku, and Raizo dont seem that strong compared to the rest.
Kinemon is a little harder to figure out. He initially lost to Law, but we all know a lot of folks would lose to Law if they had no idea how his powers worked.

 

[M3J]

9RS are too weak for Kaidou, Kaidou didn't even feel that much and proceeded to wreck them. Against the Supernovas, he's gotten pummeled a bit by Luffy and has Big Mom helping him when it counts, so yeah.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

9RS are too weak for Kaidou, Kaidou didn't even feel that much and proceeded to wreck them. Against the Supernovas, he's gotten pummeled a bit by Luffy and has Big Mom helping him when it counts, so yeah.

This is surprising me cause the upper tier 9 red scabbards inuarashi, nekomashi, denjiro , ashura and kawamatsu scale around to jack
Not quite sure where to put izu but he seemed pretty tough
I know kinemon raizo and kiku aren't all that combat wise
Then in suulong mode inu and neko are each way way stronger than him ( going by how much stronger carrot got in that mode and how they pummeled him , even if it was a 2 v 1 , kaido said it himself , those 2 were much stronger than him )
I wouldn't think just 5 supernova would be stronger than that collective and yet I guess here we are , so much so that even big mum has to help out , unless maybe he used hybrid form against them for a bit
Kaido DF is very overpowered




My current rankings of the people on the island

Tier 1 = kaido big mum Marco >= Luffy ,
Tier 2 = zoro/king/Kidd/law, ( suulong inu and neko )
Tier 3 = yamato/sanji/jinbei/killer/X drake/queen/who's who/denjiro/inu/neku/ashura doji
Tier 3.5 = jack (?) Hawkins , perospero
Tier 4 = Franky , sakasaki , page 1 , ulti , black maria , robin

 

[GL_Nova]

Honestly, it’s super insulting to think they have Sanji fighting Jack when while King and Queen are being halted by 1 opponent and his rival and captain face the Yonko.

 

[XXGenesis]

How strong was prime Hyogoro??
Under Oden for sure...But how much weaker?
Ashura Doji or Inu/Neko(Sulong) equal or stronger than a 3rd Yonkou commander??

 

[Fox666]

How strong was prime Hyogoro??
Under Oden for sure...But how much weaker?
Ashura Doji or Inu/Neko(Sulong) equal or stronger than a 3rd Yonkou commander??

I think that's oddly specific...

We can only tell Hyogoro was strong enough to be a pain in the ass for Appo's crewmates, which doesn't tell much.

 

[slavkovski]

How strong was prime Hyogoro??
Under Oden for sure...But how much weaker?
Ashura Doji or Inu/Neko(Sulong) equal or stronger than a 3rd Yonkou commander??

I also wanted to know the story about the other shimotsuki, the one who own the fox where the area are snowy, i vaguely remember that the area are the very last area that the beast pirates manage to conquered in wano.. He supposedly to be stronger if that's true..

 

[XXGenesis]

I think that's oddly specific...

We can only tell Hyogoro was strong enough to be a pain in the ass for Appo's crewmates, which doesn't tell much.

I asked a question while providing my own speculation...

Hyogoro has good hype and casual feats. He wasn’t stronger than Oden or equal that I think readers can be sure of. Lastly Queen said he would wipe out the floor, then proceeded to attack him. I’m just curious as what some others may think

 

[kkck]

It's really hard to say how strong hyogoro could have been. He has defeated no one with a name for the most part, just some people at the floor he is at. He is a strong fighter no doubt but given the circumstances it's impossible to narrow down power gaps to more than anything between a headliner and... say, YC3?

 

[albertwv]

Anyone kind of disappointed on how the battle has been going on, especially with the match ups?
Examples:
2 Yonko vs 5 SNs: this has made the yonko look weak
Marco vs King and Queen: those two enemies wouldve been better handled by the Zolo and Sanji like it always has been by fighting the 2nd and 3rd strongest enemies. Add on to that, that makes Marco look pretty strong (always thought he was) but also makes those 2 enemies look weak
Sanji vs Jack???: If they both were at full health I actually would not mind them fighting each other I think this would be a good match up and a step up from the Page 1 fight.
Hyogo vs Hotei: That was lame, I was actually expecting something from the leader of the Mumiwhatever, he seemed pretty capable like almost Denjiro/Kyoshiro level, but he was one shotted by Hyogo (who may be 3rd YC level) but still. Wanted to see a good fight out of him.
Yamato and Shinobu: theyre not fighting anyone but Im tired of seeing them, dont care what happens to them.
Jimbei vs Whos Who: Cant say much but was hoping for Jimbei to go after a YC not a Flying 6.

Honestly, I was hoping another Enies Lobby type of fight/match ups. And its a mixture of MF and EL.