Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.
It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.
For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.
As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:
Shanks v Mihawk
Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
Zoro > Luffy
Zoro v Sanji
Is Smoker a top 30 character?
Mihawk's rank within the story
Law having CoC currently.
Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.
If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.
This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.
Zoro would be dead already without Law. He did not block the attack, he only delayed it for some ms. Still impressive from Zoro though.
Raw attack power wise Zoro is stronger, but that's not all. Law is much more versatile. One piece is not only about raw power, this is not dragonball and I am happy about it. One piece is more complex. There is no a > b so a > c, since b > c in one piece.
The problem isn’t that might be true but we are talking about as for RIGHT NOW as of chapter 1010 zoro feats has been more impressive than kidd and law.
We can give credit to Zoro, but we can't pretend Kidd and Law haven't been fighting and doing their part on Kaido and Big Mom. Their feats are still impressive and even above Zoro's.
Im done arguing with Moe, he's exactly like Nik but also the opposite.
For the record, no one here thinks that Zolo can 1v1 any Yonko. Kid and Law didnt face that attack head on, as we can see Zolo manage to block the attack but was still severely damaged by it. Kid or Law have not gotten close to what Zolo has done to Kaido. Law got him good with Injection Shot, but Kaido just said his DF was tricky while he praised Zolo's final attack saying he was going to be scarred.
I dont understand how people are downplaying Zolo after he scarred Kaido, while Oden was the only to scar Kaido before. Before anyone says its thanks to Enma that Zolo has gotten this far, then should also downplay Oden when he wielded Enma and scarred Kaido? It wasnt Oden who scarred Kaido but rather thanks to Enma. You see how stupid that sounds.
Nah, but your adding to be more like Nik given your pushing much about him. I am just stating obvious and caring for rest of the characters. It's not all about Zoro and you should respect characters like Luffy, Kidd, Law, Killer, etc. doing their side on Kaido, not only Zoro.
Kaido praised Luffy, Kidd, and Law on same level as 'little monsters' while Zoro and Killer are compare in same tier as something below them. That is clear to see who is on different tiers and to see Kidd and Law aren't done fighting, your ignoring they won't do anything else or proving they can compete as much or more.
It's not about downplay, it's not to underestimate rest of characters fighting Zoro. I said already I give credit on a scar with Enma, but just because he scar Kaido doesn't mean he is stronger than others. Luffy hasn't scar Kaido, are you implying Luffy is not stronger than Zoro given what he been showing? Just saying it's not a case should be use in debating that much or overhype it. Oden was due to his own power as you can see how Kaido refers to Oden as himself while Zoro he stated times about sword even stating 'Oden's spirit' inside of it. The sword was even highlight and not rest of his swords which hinted it was more Enma than just skill of all his 3 swords. It what is stated and show, nothing biased or anything, but you can't seem to handle about characters having performance as good or better than Zoro though.
Not only one talking about Kidd and Law, so nah. Though you guys shouldn't bring toxic from another website given we seen already it's strict here. That's why I stop showing up there.
Kidd and Law are above Zoro. They are active and tanked Yonko attacks while Zoro got knockout by first hit he ever got from Kaido. Ignoring that and along they won't do anything else gonig forward is more biased than being factual.
I don't even know you, Barrier from that website and not only one with these opinion. You can find them from different users, so not really me against community, just few who overhype when something shouldn't.
I'm glad you agree that you have no evidence and just assumptions. Jaguar D Saul had CoC too by your logic, right? And Portgas D Rouge? And every D that has ever lived? Everyone praise King Moe for identifying the first CoC Giant user of the series.
Also I'm still waiting for a single panel of the manga that even hints that Law cares about becoming Pirate King? As I said, his stated goal was to take down Doflamingo and then when he survived that (against his expectation) he wanted to take down Kaidou.
I mean hard to say as Jaguar was a VA and they have Haki. Who knows if he has COC or not as could be possible and Idk about Rouge enough to state otherwise on her. We have to see what Oda says on backstory on her. Not saying every 'D.' has it, but more essential ones especially in fighting and story would have it and Law is showing he can.
My evidence is back up more than yours thinking Garp, Dragon, and Blackbeard won't have COC because you don't think so given the heavily implied hints for a long while now.
Yes one of his goal, but he also wants to be PK too. Your not being PK and treated how you are without COC and it is possible for him to have it. Why you think he is upset at times to even be refer to as a 'underling' to Luffy when he isn't and compete with Luffy and Kidd who are also fellow COC users and fight on same tier as them.
Nothing on what stated is biased no without proof. You got learn to put pieces together than have someone hold your hand and denying something biased on your wording. Law has the traits, it is obvious he already has it just like Blackbeard, Garp, and Dragon. It really isn't rocket science to see the signs about this.
I mean hard to say as Jaguar was a VA and they have Haki. Who knows if he has COC or not as could be possible and Idk about Rouge enough to state otherwise on her. We have to see what Oda says on backstory on her. Not saying every 'D.' has it, but more essential ones especially in fighting and story would have it and Law is showing he can.
My evidence is back up more than yours thinking Garp, Dragon, and Blackbeard won't have COC because you don't think so given the heavily implied hints for a long while now.
Yes one of his goal, but he also wants to be PK too. Your not being PK and treated how you are without COC and it is possible for him to have it. Why you think he is upset at times to even be refer to as a 'underling' to Luffy when he isn't and compete with Luffy and Kidd who are also fellow COC users and fight on same tier as them.
Nothing on what stated is biased no without proof. You got learn to put pieces together than have someone hold your hand and denying something biased on your wording. Law has the traits, it is obvious he already has it just like Blackbeard, Garp, and Dragon. It really isn't rocket science to see the signs about this.
Show me one single manga panel that even so much as hints that Law wants to be Pirate King. A single line of text. Do you have anything to back up your mis-informed opinion?
I find it funny you're saying "You got learn to put pieces together", yet you'd be the first to call out a Zoro fan for putting pieces together rather than relying on manga facts. You're a hypocrite, and not a pleasant person.
@King Moe except that I know for a fact that if Sanji perform that same feat to kaido u probably would saying that sanji>zoro . And when luffy punched kaido at the beginning he was shocked and was getting compared to Rodgers WB xubec oden and shanks so we already know that luffy can hurt him enough to make his even dodge his attacks. as for law he wasn’t fazed at all. Zoro asuma was able damage him enough for kaido to praised him also BM had to warn him to dodge zoro attacks. AGAIN I’ll say this againlaw and Kidd can perform better feats in the upcoming chapters but as for right now chapter 1010 zoro and luffy>kidd and law
My hot take is law will heal zoro enough to help out luffy to fight kaido
There is no such thing as a fair fight between pirates , and Law is more likely to do that than any other. Even Luffy was ok with Linlin getting poisoned, so there's no reason why Law wouldn't. If anything, Law's would be more discrete, and this could be a chance.
I see I am not the only one on this website or another website that gets headaches from Moe.
I do wish to see more of Kid, Killer, and Law and I am sure they have something hidden in their sleeves especially Kid just like Bege had the castle im sure Kid has something extra. Kid repelling BM or tanking one hit from BM is somewhat impressive but not really. We've seen Bege take like 2-3 hits from BM and Queen take 2 before passing out. Kid repelling BM was nothing, now if he had actually carried her with his arm and thrown her that would be a nice considerable feat.
Many will disagree with this but Kaido > OLD WB in Marineford.
Yup, Rouge definitely has COC I mean she was in bed with Roger and was pregnant with Ace 2 known COC users, that means Rouge must've had COC, plus did I mentioned she is a..... D member. All signs point to her having COC. Even though Oda didnt mention it in the manga or Vivre or Books, I know for a fact. Dont ask me how I know I just know
Now that Law and Zolo have gone underneath, I want to see Zolo go 1v1 with somebody, after he is healed by Law.
Given Whitebeards CoO seemed to not be what it once was (Squardo; unexpected I know), his CoC was intermitant (not blasting the executioners when they were about to kill Ace) and his CoC didn't appear to be imbued into his CoA (might just be a case of Oda hadn't thought of it at the time rather than regression due to age), I think Kaido may have a SLIGHT edge (but he would come away with grevious wounds).
However, Whitebeard's fruit in a 1vs1 where he doesn't have to worry about the safety of his allies (something I think factored into his performance at Marineford) is something that can decimate islands with seemingly not much effort. So this is why I can't just hand Kaido the W 100%.
EDIT, I DO think that prime Whitebeard shits all over current Kaido though.
Zoro and Luffy individually would lose to Kaidou. In fact, I think everyone on that Island but Big Mom would lose whether it's one vs. one on either Emperor or two vs. an Emperor. Neither should be hyped up when they're both dealing damages with help.
i always believed Kaido's mission to attack whitebeard before the war was a suicide mission. With whitebeard, "strongest pirate" gone, who would be able to kill the strongest creature? Nevertheless, Whitebeard's sickness was the reason Squardo was able to impale him.
@M3J,
Yes, perhaps he'll lose one more time before he can beat him, but that level of sustenance from Luffy will be hard to explain. he's gone through too much damaged already.
was it, though? I don't think Whitebeard would have killed Kaidou or at least, Kaidou likely wanted to distract Whitebeard long enough that Ace couldn't be saved.
Eh it's Luffy, no need to explain much after 1000 chapters of Luffy doing impossible stuff.
Kaido praise as a 1 on 1 fighter is up there
In a one on one fight ber on kaido
Strongest creature in the world is an epithet as impressive as strongest Man in the world imo
Whitebeard was not the beast he once was
Prime Whitebeard is gonna go through hell to defeat current kaido
His devil fruit is ridiculously hax too
Wb haki had taken a big dive at marineford , his will was as powerful as ever but I think his body was failing
Like in physical fighting form , that kaido outstrips Whitebeard imo
Like the entire marineford was Whitebeard being open about his mortality and not being the guy he once was
also remember ace invaded kaido territory, he definitely in all likelihood just wanted to keep white beard and his crew occupied long enough till ace was executed
I think this haki nerf is new imo , maybe it’s just for law because imo he could have used personality switch to completely ruin the fodders of kaido army , with a lot of them being gifters
Cause sugar was gonna do law and luffy in and their haki was levels levels above hers , or maybe it’s just laws fruit
He is. Old WB has lower stamina than in his Prime. WB’s crew & WB’s myth is how he held the #1 seat & his territories. I personally believe other Emperors became stronger than him while he became weaker because of health & age.
*Note it would always be a High Diff fight. WB still carries most of his offensive power imo. Just doesn’t have the stamina anymore for such high
Given Whitebeards CoO seemed to not be what it once was (Squardo; unexpected I know), his CoC was intermitant (not blasting the executioners when they were about to kill Ace) and his CoC didn't appear to be imbued into his CoA (might just be a case of Oda hadn't thought of it at the time rather than regression due to age), I think Kaido may have a SLIGHT edge (but he would come away with grevious wounds).
However, Whitebeard's fruit in a 1vs1 where he doesn't have to worry about the safety of his allies (something I think factored into his performance at Marineford) is something that can decimate islands with seemingly not much effort. So this is why I can't just hand Kaido the W 100%.
EDIT, I DO think that prime Whitebeard shits all over current Kaido though.
I would have any Emperor the Win. WB was too sick, plenty of times he dropped his guard because of his sickness. As to why the Admirals kinda got the best of him. & why he was enduring damaging attack after damaging attack. WB’s stamina didn’t permit him to block or evade
Show me one single manga panel that even so much as hints that Law wants to be Pirate King. A single line of text. Do you have anything to back up your mis-informed opinion?
I find it funny you're saying "You got learn to put pieces together", yet you'd be the first to call out a Zoro fan for putting pieces together rather than relying on manga facts. You're a hypocrite, and not a pleasant person.
Show me panel where Kidd wants to be Pirate King? Yet...He has COC as well. You don't need to say it constantly or words to know they want to reach to be PK with Luffy. Why you think they are showing competing with Luffy even now. You can't be PK if you don't have COC.
Put what pieces? Zoro beat Kaido? Zoro over Luffy? Zoro could 1 on 1 on Yonkos? How is that credible and me saying Blackbeard, Garp, Dragon, Kidd, and Law having COC is not? I am not saying anything over the top unlike Zoro fan side. Your acting like insecure biased fanboy over it and going out of you way to insult me when we having a calm debate. Your unpleasant person who can't understand different opinions especially ones that have backing.
@King Moe except that I know for a fact that if Sanji perform that same feat to kaido u probably would saying that sanji>zoro . And when luffy punched kaido at the beginning he was shocked and was getting compared to Rodgers WB xubec oden and shanks so we already know that luffy can hurt him enough to make his even dodge his attacks. as for law he wasn’t fazed at all. Zoro asuma was able damage him enough for kaido to praised him also BM had to warn him to dodge zoro attacks. AGAIN I’ll say this againlaw and Kidd can perform better feats in the upcoming chapters but as for right now chapter 1010 zoro and luffy>kidd and law
My hot take is law will heal zoro enough to help out luffy to fight kaido
I mean Luffy haven't scarred Kaido. Does that mean he isn't above Zoro? It's about damage if you can make him bleed and push him back. We have to see on that. I know he can harm Full Zoan Kaido, but Hybrid Form, Idk about that yet. If he is among next group to fight Kaido to support Luffy so he can get a break, we have to see how that fight goes.
I can agree on Luffy over Kidd and Law. I never question that, but Zoro is debatable and more when we saw Kidd pushing back Big Mom after tanking a punch to the face and into the ground and now him and Killer are fighting her while Law just pierce into Kaido's body and made him bleed from mouth about it and then tanking Kaido's attack which knockout Zoro, but it didn't on him. They have shown feats to compete and like you said will show more as the fight continue as they probably head back to fight with Luffy against Kaido.
I don't think so. Law can't do that in middle of a battle and plus his medical doesn't mean Zoro be in condition to fight Kaido again especially he already did his best. He be doing something else now given new situation going around and need to heal after heavy damage he take as stated by Law. Medical alone won't be enough to face Kaido who hasn't even gone full power yet.
I see I am not the only one on this website or another website that gets headaches from Moe.
I do wish to see more of Kid, Killer, and Law and I am sure they have something hidden in their sleeves especially Kid just like Bege had the castle im sure Kid has something extra. Kid repelling BM or tanking one hit from BM is somewhat impressive but not really. We've seen Bege take like 2-3 hits from BM and Queen take 2 before passing out. Kid repelling BM was nothing, now if he had actually carried her with his arm and thrown her that would be a nice considerable feat.
Many will disagree with this but Kaido > OLD WB in Marineford.
Yup, Rouge definitely has COC I mean she was in bed with Roger and was pregnant with Ace 2 known COC users, that means Rouge must've had COC, plus did I mentioned she is a..... D member. All signs point to her having COC. Even though Oda didnt mention it in the manga or Vivre or Books, I know for a fact. Dont ask me how I know I just know
Now that Law and Zolo have gone underneath, I want to see Zolo go 1v1 with somebody, after he is healed by Law.
Seems to be just few Zoro side acting out on that. I haven't said anything wrong about Kidd and Law or impossible for them. If you guys can't accept the feats and possible of Law having COC that is on you. Your creating yourself headache if you keep being narrow-minded and think only Zoro is important in the fight or series when he clearly isn't for big goal.
Fight is still going with Kidd, Law, and Killer, so you got expect more feats from them than thinking they won't do anything else after this.
So you believe Rouge have COC and disagree with what Hibari was saying early?
Law's medical wouldn't be enough for him to face someone very strong given we see how long it took Luffy to recover and he wasn't even back to his health even after waking up and he is Rubber-Man. Though I do have ideas who he be facing that could make sense to fight with on injuries he has.
i always believed Kaido's mission to attack whitebeard before the war was a suicide mission. With whitebeard, "strongest pirate" gone, who would be able to kill the strongest creature? Nevertheless, Whitebeard's sickness was the reason Squardo was able to impale him.
@M3J,
Yes, perhaps he'll lose one more time before he can beat him, but that level of sustenance from Luffy will be hard to explain. he's gone through too much damaged already.
I agree on that. Which is why I think Luffy will need another break and another group will come in to fight Kaido and support Luffy given the 5 weren't enough to fight 2 Yonkos given possibility. I think we can expect more coming to Rooftop to fight Kaido and help out.
He is. Old WB has lower stamina than in his Prime. WB’s crew & WB’s myth is how he held the #1 seat & his territories. I personally believe other Emperors became stronger than him while he became weaker because of health & age.
*Note it would always be a High Diff fight. WB still carries most of his offensive power imo. Just doesn’t have the stamina anymore for such high
I would have any Emperor the Win. WB was too sick, plenty of times he dropped his guard because of his sickness. As to why the Admirals kinda got the best of him. & why he was enduring damaging attack after damaging attack. WB’s stamina didn’t permit him to block or evade
Thank you the admirals were dealing with whitebeaed I think the anime made it look more flattering
But kizaru was in complete control during their confrontation and injured him twice and left unscathed and it wasn’t him blindsided or nothing.
akainu took half his face and burnt all his organs
He and Kuzan didn’t scrap much
I have no idea where white beard being above the admirals in marineford emerged from
kidd hasn’t spelt it out but his ambition is too rule he has kings haki
He invaded big mum’s territory , he teamed up to take on shanks and scrapped like crazy against kaido before his first defeat
He doesn’t want to be under anyone’s thumb
He’s more clear cut as a rival to luffy but I do think they’re gonna be on very good terms relatively
With law , law clearly didn’t have that ambition but Oda has given him in a new role , he’s pretty much now the deutragonist of the new world now , he isn’t in it to scrap against luffy tho for pirate king he’s gonna be like luffys white beard except even closer , he’s gonna be the guy who is after the mystery of the D clan , while luffy chases the more overt adventure of finding one piece , law is consumed with the mystery of the D and that’s going to bring him also in opposition to the world government and celestial dragons ( which means scrapping with admirals )
One ability that luffy even has over roger is that he even has more unlikely allies
Thank you the admirals were dealing with whitebeaed I think the anime made it look more flattering
But kizaru was in complete control during their confrontation and injured him twice and left unscathed and it wasn’t him blindsided or nothing.
akainu took half his face and burnt all his organs
He and Kuzan didn’t scrap much
I have no idea where white beard being above the admirals in marineford emerged from
kidd hasn’t spelt it out but his ambition is too rule he has kings haki
He invaded big mum’s territory , he teamed up to take on shanks and scrapped like crazy against kaido before his first defeat
He doesn’t want to be under anyone’s thumb
He’s more clear cut as a rival to luffy but I do think they’re gonna be on very good terms relatively
With law , law clearly didn’t have that ambition but Oda has given him in a new role , he’s pretty much now the deutragonist of the new world now , he isn’t in it to scrap against luffy tho for pirate king he’s gonna be like luffys white beard except even closer , he’s gonna be the guy who is after the mystery of the D clan , while luffy chases the more overt adventure of finding one piece , law is consumed with the mystery of the D and that’s going to bring him also in opposition to the world government and celestial dragons ( which means scrapping with admirals )
One ability that luffy even has over roger is that he even has more unlikely allies
WB imo would lose to any top tier because he’s aged and sick. However without a doubt he would land critical blows and it would be above a mid-diff fight. They’ll come out injured, but as I keep saying. WB doesn’t have the stamina anymore to finish off an Og Admiral or another Yonkou.
Does anyone want to have another guess at the match ups going to happen? Most of them are already concrete (Franky vs Sasaki, Robin vs BM, Jack vs Dog, Whos Who vs Jimbei).
King Queen are still out there im sure Marco is not going to take on them both someone has to come if not that would be too lame on Oda's writing. I think the 9RS shouldve been done for the count or at least not taken Jack and Fukurukuju as match ups, save those for the Straw Hats.
There you go. Chapter 505 is the first time Kid clearly said he wants to become PK.
After we learnt about Law's true motivations, Law has yet to prove he has any interest in becoming PK. He dealt with Doflamingo, and his new objective about learning more about the D and the void century seems to be in line with Robin's, rather than becoming PK.
There you go. Chapter 505 is the first time Kid clearly said he wants to become PK.
After we learnt about Law's true motivations, Law has yet to prove he has any interest in becoming PK. He dealt with Doflamingo, and his new objective about learning more about the D and the void century seems to be in line with Robin's, rather than becoming PK.
Wow you were able to provide a panel of Kid wanting to be a PK but Moe cant find one of Law saying the same. lol Laws goal was to kill Doffy and die if he had to to accomplish that. Now he wants to live to figure out what the D means. Law is not interested in being the PK, probably never was. So I guess there goes Laws chance of having COC.
Zolo has COC while Law doesn't.
WB lost to the admirals because it was basically traitor, elite marines, VAs, Aokiji, Kizaru, Akainu, his failing heart, BB, BB Pirates vs only WB. Not at the same time but it wore him down. If anything that just shows how crazy strong WB is and from there you can infer that a healthy OLD WB can still fuck up high diff any admiral.
, and Law is more likely to do that than any other. Even Luffy was ok with Linlin getting poisoned, so there's no reason why Law wouldn't. If anything, Law's would be more discrete, and this could be a chance.
