One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Fallou]

Respectfully, why are you on this thread then? To you it's pointless, to me it is interesting. There's ways to gauge someone's sterngth without seeing them fight. For example, Shanks. I imagine he is close to Kaido and BM, we've never seen him fight besides clashing with WB and Akainu. But I am willing to be Shanks is stronger than 95% of the current OP world. Portrayal, hype, title, brief clashes, opponents/rivals, that is a way to gauge someones strength.

I dont think just because someone can hurt Kaido, automatically makes them stronger than YC1s. Sure it is an amazing feat but given other circumstances, I cannot see how Law Kid or even Zolo defeat Katakuri much less Marco. Marco was able to keep up with all 3 Admirals, im sure he can defeat all the Supernova besides Luffy. Cant believe someone believes Killer can take down Queen, no way. Killer is Hawkins match up so they are probably around the same level.

F6 and Supernova, Apoo and Hawkins seem to be close in strength to Drake who is a stronger F6, so I think the F6 was meant for Zoans only, makes sense since Kaido wants a primarily Zoan DF crew, his Top 3 are Zoans, his top 6 headliners are all Zoans and Ancient to add to that. So maybe if you're not Zoan you dont get an important position maybe.

Law and Kid fighting on the rooftop still amazes me, we saw how Law was being ragdolled by Doffy a few arcs ago, and out of nowhere, no training or build up he is now fighting Yonkos, doesnt necessarily make him stronger than Doffy or even a YC1. I mean sure Law probably did get stronger but by that much and out of nowhere. Hmm. Kid we never truly saw how strong he was besides injuring a sweet commander (my guess Snack), so its hard to gauge him before Wano and now he can tango with a Yonko. Hmm. His repel doesnt mean shit.

One last thing Whos who vs Jimbei seems to be equal on par, and I think Whos is the strongest F6 and maybe YC3, but I dont think Jimbei is YC3.
People may hate me for this but I dont think Jimbei is that strong compared to Doffy, Cracker, or even Jack. In water yes but in land no.

You're right I was being grumpy sorry

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Respectfully, why are you on this thread then? To you it's pointless, to me it is interesting. There's ways to gauge someone's sterngth without seeing them fight. For example, Shanks. I imagine he is close to Kaido and BM, we've never seen him fight besides clashing with WB and Akainu. But I am willing to be Shanks is stronger than 95% of the current OP world. Portrayal, hype, title, brief clashes, opponents/rivals, that is a way to gauge someones strength.

I dont think just because someone can hurt Kaido, automatically makes them stronger than YC1s. Sure it is an amazing feat but given other circumstances, I cannot see how Law Kid or even Zolo defeat Katakuri much less Marco. Marco was able to keep up with all 3 Admirals, im sure he can defeat all the Supernova besides Luffy. Cant believe someone believes Killer can take down Queen, no way. Killer is Hawkins match up so they are probably around the same level.

F6 and Supernova, Apoo and Hawkins seem to be close in strength to Drake who is a stronger F6, so I think the F6 was meant for Zoans only, makes sense since Kaido wants a primarily Zoan DF crew, his Top 3 are Zoans, his top 6 headliners are all Zoans and Ancient to add to that. So maybe if you're not Zoan you dont get an important position maybe.

Law and Kid fighting on the rooftop still amazes me, we saw how Law was being ragdolled by Doffy a few arcs ago, and out of nowhere, no training or build up he is now fighting Yonkos, doesnt necessarily make him stronger than Doffy or even a YC1. I mean sure Law probably did get stronger but by that much and out of nowhere. Hmm. Kid we never truly saw how strong he was besides injuring a sweet commander (my guess Snack), so its hard to gauge him before Wano and now he can tango with a Yonko. Hmm. His repel doesnt mean shit.

One last thing Whos who vs Jimbei seems to be equal on par, and I think Whos is the strongest F6 and maybe YC3, but I dont think Jimbei is YC3.
People may hate me for this but I dont think Jimbei is that strong compared to Doffy, Cracker, or even Jack. In water yes but in land no.

Ehhh those 3 luffy law and Zoro are probably beyond katakuri and king now
Especially luffy as he’s gotten a massive buffer in his basic stats after the prison yard cuffs training
Now he can use kings haki armament on his attacks as well the more advanced flow haki
Being able to hurt kaido is impressive , being able to hurt kaido to the point where he sees the visage and ceiling of the strongest pirates ever around
Luffy naturally gets stronger after each fight

protagonists in one piece get rapidly stronger without on screen training
Romance dawn kuffy and sanji didn’t train on screen and were yet monstrously stronger by Enies lobby and sabody

 

[M3J]

I don't see how Zoro can beat Katakuri though, but at least Law might have a chance with his devil fruit. Unless Zoro has speed or Future Sight, he shouldn't be able to hurt Katakuri.

 

[XXGenesis]

@albertwv

I see any of the SN on the Rooftop taking out King. It’ll be a tough fight, but I think they’ll win. Zoro especially. Asura would probably be un avoidable and that would drop him. Law would needa way around FS, think he’ll come up with a plan Via DF. Kidd same.

Killer is only a VC4. He’s not defeating Queen. Hawkins has him at 92% to die. He’s fairy matched right now.

Zoro from my memory; is the only character shown constantly training in between arcs; That said Characters will inevitably grow between the arcs from their loses & failures. Especially if some time has passed they will receive some new offscreen ingenuity about their abilities & skills to later be showcased.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

@albertwv

I see any of the SN on the Rooftop taking out King. It’ll be a tough fight, but I think they’ll win. Zoro especially. Asura would probably be un avoidable and that would drop him. Law would needa way around FS, think he’ll come up with a plan Via DF. Kidd same.

Killer is only a VC4. He’s not defeating Queen. Hawkins has him at 92% to die. He’s fairy matched right now.

Zoro from my memory; is the only character shown constantly training in between arcs; That said Characters will inevitably grow between the arcs from their loses & failures. Especially if some time has passed they will receive some new offscreen ingenuity about their abilities & skills to later be showcased.

Killer was doing work on the roof he’s much stronger than a VC4 he’s easily clear of snack , whose somewhat counterpart in judge literally got one shot by big mum , killer took a similar attack and kept going
And killer is much stronger than Hawkins , Hawkins is gonna use his trump card that boosts his strength that he hinted of earlier to fight

 

[albertwv]

Nah I dont see any of SN but Luffy defeating Marcos or Katakuri. You guys are overhyping them solely on the fact that they were on the rooftop fighting Yonkos. When it was only Luffy who did something significantly throughout the fight. Zolo came in second close but it was his ultimate final attack.
I dont believe we should effectively judge someone by their ultimate finishing move. I say this because it is most likely an only one time thing.

Zolo vs Katakuri, I have a hard time seeing how he is going to cut Katakuri or block his Mochi block punches. Luffy had a hard time. Also Law or Kid, I dont see them taking down a YC1 yet. Dont mistake them because they are currently facing BM that automatically makes them stronger than YC1s. No it doesnt work that way. Until we see Law or Kid actually take down or significantly damage BM than we can assume so. But we will wait until then.

Stop overhyping Killer, he is Hawkin's match and level. Its like saying Kiku > Queen because she was on the rooftop and cut Kaido. No.

 

[Fox666]

Killer was doing work on the roof he’s much stronger than a VC4 he’s easily clear of snack , whose somewhat counterpart in judge literally got one shot by big mum , killer took a similar attack and kept going

If you take the battle against Kaido and Big Mom seriously, then Killer is on a completely different level compared to Judge, Queen or Marco.

 

[XXGenesis]

Killer was doing work on the roof he’s much stronger than a VC4 he’s easily clear of snack , whose somewhat counterpart in judge literally got one shot by big mum , killer took a similar attack and kept going
And killer is much stronger than Hawkins , Hawkins is gonna use his trump card that boosts his strength that he hinted of earlier to fight

!!!!!

Hawkins via DF & Tarot Skill not specified if related, can seemingly manipulate the outcome or boost an attack

If you take the battle against Kaido and Big Mom seriously, then Killer is on a completely different level compared to Judge, Queen or Marco.

We should take it seriously it happened. Idk how or why ppl think that means 1 vs 1 Killer can defeat commanders like Jack or Cracker?!

The Rooftop Fight was 5 vs 2.
Luffy & Zoro were the most effective offensively vs Kaido. Law & Kidd Removed BM from Rooftop & hurt Kaido a bit. Killer was the least effective on the Rooftop. He attacked Kaido’s neck via No Damage only blunt & then he switched it up to a a sound attack which did do damage to Kaido. Other than that he got struck down by BM & roughed up by Kaido’s AOE attacks.

If the Scabbards can hurt Kaido. Why shouldn’t they also be viewed at as capable of defeating commanders?

Killer is not gonna dog walk Hawkins. & that will rationalize where he’s at in the pecking order.

The SNP & creWs are strong. But let’s pay attention, they all are not just high commander lv Pirates. The Top Captains with the weaker ones close or even with the weakest commanders like Snack

 

[thedude]

Nah I dont see any of SN but Luffy defeating Marcos or Katakuri. You guys are overhyping them solely on the fact that they were on the rooftop fighting Yonkos. When it was only Luffy who did something significantly throughout the fight. Zolo came in second close but it was his ultimate final attack.
I dont believe we should effectively judge someone by their ultimate finishing move. I say this because it is most likely an only one time thing.

Zolo vs Katakuri, I have a hard time seeing how he is going to cut Katakuri or block his Mochi block punches. Luffy had a hard time. Also Law or Kid, I dont see them taking down a YC1 yet. Dont mistake them because they are currently facing BM that automatically makes them stronger than YC1s. No it doesnt work that way. Until we see Law or Kid actually take down or significantly damage BM than we can assume so. But we will wait until then.

Stop overhyping Killer, he is Hawkin's match and level. Its like saying Kiku > Queen because she was on the rooftop and cut Kaido. No.

Another thing people are doing is "Katakuri was defeated last arc, therefore all high tier enemies in the next arcs are stronger"...which isn't the case. Luffy's growth "beating" him doesn't transfer to all characters either.

I do think Law and Kid can take down a YC1, they are going to probably beat a Yonko now. But by no means is it an easy fight or guaranteed in any way.

 

[AmitDS]

If Zoro fights King and Sanji's fight with Queen follows through, we can definitely see where they each rank, similarly to Enies Lobby.

 

[Fox666]

The Rooftop Fight was 5 vs 2.
Luffy & Zoro were the most effective offensively vs Kaido. Law & Kidd Removed BM from Rooftop & hurt Kaido a bit. Killer was the least effective on the Rooftop. He attacked Kaido’s neck via No Damage only blunt & then he switched it up to a a sound attack which did do damage to Kaido. Other than that he got struck down by BM & roughed up by Kaido’s AOE attacks.

If the Scabbards can hurt Kaido. Why shouldn’t they also be viewed at as capable of defeating commanders?

Killer is not gonna dog walk Hawkins. & that will rationalize where he’s at in the pecking order.

The SNP & creWs are strong. But let’s pay attention, they all are not just high commander lv Pirates. The Top Captains with the weaker ones close or even with the weakest commanders like Snack

Well, it's simple.

Here's what happened when Akainu or Oden were hit by a Yonko:

And here's the Supernovas, after receiving similar attacks:

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Another thing people are doing is "Katakuri was defeated last arc, therefore all high tier enemies in the next arcs are stronger"...which isn't the case. Luffy's growth "beating" him doesn't transfer to all characters either.

I do think Law and Kid can take down a YC1, they are going to probably beat a Yonko now. But by no means is it an easy fight or guaranteed in any way.

Law or kidd , the biggest issue they face while battling the two yonkou is they have ridiculously tough skin , the YC1 don’t have that , they could definitely handle the king/katakuri YC1 types
But probably not the Marco level ones

If Zoro fights King and Sanji's fight with Queen follows through, we can definitely see where they each rank, similarly to Enies Lobby.

Ehhh Zoro has tangoed with a. Yonkou and his body is broken , he’s clearly above sanji now
Heck he sees queen as a relative small fry

 

[XXGenesis]

Another thing people are doing is "Katakuri was defeated last arc, therefore all high tier enemies in the next arcs are stronger"...which isn't the case. Luffy's growth "beating" him doesn't transfer to all characters either.

I do think Law and Kid can take down a YC1, they are going to probably beat a Yonko now. But by no means is it an easy fight or guaranteed in any way.

Highly agreed.
katakuri & King ain’t VC1 lv. They just hold the position. Marco is VC1.

 

[thedude]

Highly agreed.
katakuri & King ain’t VC1 lv. They just hold the position. Marco is VC1.

...i didn't say they weren't VC1 level at all. Katakuri could have beaten Luffy a dozen times in their fight.

And if Katakuri and King aren't at that level, the level is arbitrary. They are literally the top tier under the Yonko they serve. Saying that isn't VC1 means there is no VC1.

Marco may be stronger, I can't say. But that doesn't even put him considerably stronger than them or even non-VC's. Hell, Jozu was being toyed with by Doflamingo, and Jozu was VC2 of the WB pirates.

 

[hokageji]

Mingo is heavily underrated, i'd say he is easily a YC1 level

 

[XXGenesis]

...i didn't say they weren't VC1 level at all. Katakuri could have beaten Luffy a dozen times in their fight.

And if Katakuri and King aren't at that level, the level is arbitrary. They are literally the top tier under the Yonko they serve. Saying that isn't VC1 means there is no VC1.

Marco may be stronger, I can't say. But that doesn't even put him considerably stronger than them or even non-VC's. Hell, Jozu was being toyed with by Doflamingo, and Jozu was VC2 of the WB pirates.

I’m puzzled when you guys agree with me. Then challenge the same statements posts later.

We are trying to Rank characters by their overall strength. In One Piece and most battle shonen Tiers or a class system works better. Majority of the fans have agreed to a class system mostly referred to by one’s position title via the crew, group or organization...PK, Yonkou/Admiral, YC1-4; Etc

We know King, Katakuri, Dogtooth, Ben Beckman, Zoro, Killer all hold a 1st Mate Position. For those apart of Yonkou crew that means they are 1st Commander position. All characters who are 1st mate aren’t equal.

so ranking them is different from their actual positions.

YC1+
Oden
Rayleigh
Luffy CoC

YC1
Non CoC Luffy
Marco
Ben Beckman
Yassop*

YC2+
Zoro

YC2
Kidd
Law
King
Queen
Katakuri

 

[AmitDS]

Ehhh Zoro has tangoed with a. Yonkou and his body is broken , he’s clearly above sanji now
Heck he sees queen as a relative small fry

What does tango with a yonko even mean?
Is he yonko leveled? Nope.
Can he fight a yonkou 1 v 1? Nope.

Also, Luffy, Law, Kid and even Killer have 'tangoed with a Yonkou' too. Killer's even fighting Hawkins now lol. Are Killer and Hawkins seeing King and Queen as small fry? I don't think so.

Unless Zoro had a 1 v 1 with Kaido, this weird logic of placing him above YC characters and Sanji by a sig. margin because of the rooftop has no basis in canon. He couldn't last more than a second against Hakai and people act as if he tanked Hakai and countered it. Law teleported him after a second so he wouldn't die and look at his state now. I'd reckon that this probably means that he couldn't last more than 2 seconds vs Ikoku Sovereignty or Thunder Bagua individually.

Zoro seeing Queen as a small fry is headcanon. Whether he's above Sanji or equal, if he gets trouble with injured King when he himself is healed somewhat, all this 'tangoed with a yonkou' headcanon gets crushed. Again.

And yeah Zoro getting healed means he isn't as injured as he is now so it debunks this reliance on "he's badly injured". That's kind of the point of healing.

Either you believe that Zoro is not having a 1 vs 1 fight this arc or you believe he will be severely nerfed against a way inferior opponent to facilitate his 1 vs 1 which both serve no purpose story wise or character wise for Zoro.

Zoro has never not fought the villain team's 2nd strongest or someone on that level, IIRC.
Zoro has also never not had a 1 vs 1 when Luffy, Sanji and the rest are getting them. What's the point of having him fight someone he sees as small fry? It takes all of the tension out of a fight if we know Zoro's way stronger and is only having difficulty because he alone is nerfed. Odds are that Zoro and King would be injured to a similar extent so his fight would have meaning like Sanji, Jinbei, Franky's etc. And this would also mean that Zoro at full strength at the end of this arc would be comparable to YC1 fighters like Marco, King and Katakuri while Luffy is above that but below the emperors. So it's not illogical to surmise that Wano is when Zoro officially becomes a YC1 character for the audience to see after his last 1 vs 1 was Pica.

 

[Nie Li]

What does tango with a yonko even mean?
Is he yonko leveled? Nope.
Can he fight a yonkou 1 v 1? Nope.

Also, Luffy, Law, Kid and even Killer have 'tangoed with a Yonkou' too. Killer's even fighting Hawkins now lol. Are Killer and Hawkins seeing King and Queen as small fry? I don't think so.

Unless Zoro had a 1 v 1 with Kaido, this weird logic of placing him above YC characters and Sanji by a sig. margin because of the rooftop has no basis in canon. He couldn't last more than a second against Hakai and people act as if he tanked Hakai and countered it. Law teleported him after a second so he wouldn't die and look at his state now. I'd reckon that this probably means that he couldn't last more than 2 seconds vs Ikoku Sovereignty or Thunder Bagua individually.

Zoro seeing Queen as a small fry is headcanon. Whether he's above Sanji or equal, if he gets trouble with injured King when he himself is healed somewhat, all this 'tangoed with a yonkou' headcanon gets crushed. Again.

And yeah Zoro getting healed means he isn't as injured as he is now so it debunks this reliance on "he's badly injured". That's kind of the point of healing.

Either you believe that Zoro is not having a 1 vs 1 fight this arc or you believe he will be severely nerfed against a way inferior opponent to facilitate his 1 vs 1 which both serve no purpose story wise or character wise for Zoro.

Zoro has never not fought the villain team's 2nd strongest or someone on that level, IIRC.
Zoro has also never not had a 1 vs 1 when Luffy, Sanji and the rest are getting them. What's the point of having him fight someone he sees as small fry? It takes all of the tension out of a fight if we know Zoro's way stronger and is only having difficulty because he alone is nerfed. Odds are that Zoro and King would be injured to a similar extent so his fight would have meaning like Sanji, Jinbei, Franky's etc. And this would also mean that Zoro at full strength at the end of this arc would be comparable to YC1 fighters like Marco, King and Katakuri while Luffy is above that but below the emperors. So it's not illogical to surmise that Wano is when Zoro officially becomes a YC1 character for the audience to see after his last 1 vs 1 was Pica.

Zoro getting somewhat healed enough to start fighting again doesn't mean he won't be badly injured anymore.

Chopper is a doctor, not a senzu bean.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Mingo is heavily underrated, i'd say he is easily a YC1 level

I do like his chances somewhat against Jack
But I think cracker could defeat him , he’s solidly YC3 me to

 

[AmitDS]

Zoro getting somewhat healed enough to start fighting again doesn't mean he won't be badly injured anymore.

Chopper is a doctor, not a senzu bean.

Actually, I hypothesized Marco + Chopper + Sanji's cast healing him enough to fight an already injured King. We also don't even know what Chopper can do on his own, let alone with Marco. He doesn't need to be like a senzu bean to deal with 30 broken bones if he has Marco and a cast already there. And we actually don't know how injured he'd be so we can't say he'd still be BADLY injured as opposed to injured like Sanji, King, Queen are injured. Oda can do what he wants. So IMO it's more likely that he'd be injured similarly to King than injured badly while King is in a way better state, if they have to fight.