One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I mean, you will have to explain to me from a storytelling point of view why Oda had to put the fake Momo to bait Oden and make him lose if a direct encounter with Kaidou was enough to beat him.



Moreover, on the other side if you can explain to me why you are not taking into account the fact that the Kaidou of yesterday is not the same one that the one of today.

I think kaido is a bit stronger but the way he still talks about oden’s might speaks volumes
And how he compares him to the strongest to do it
It also seems clear that oden was the last person to nearly defeat , actually get kaido gassed and excited for a fight
Also kaido was a very very experienced and poweful pirate at the time , he was 24 years + in his career , and 38/39 ( the same age that roger and garp destroyed the rocks pirates )

 

[The Prince of Darkness]

I honestly don't feel like Oden was as strong as some people make him look... Sure he was a born monster like Linlin and grew up to be an even greater monster for Wano but for the outside world he was just someone really strong like there's many out there.
Linlin destroyed a whole Giant village as a kid and her potential was said to be monstrious and yet even her isn't confident enough to defeat Kaido.
Oden was never on the level of legendary pirates like Roger and Whitebeard. Heck, I'm pretty sure Rayleigh was (and would still be if he hadn't retired) stronger than him.
At best, if he was still alive, he'd be "Current" Yonko level.
Kaido's obsession for Oden is of him being a Samurai of Wano. He keeps comparing the samouraïs to Oden because for him there will never be a Samurai as strong or stronger than Oden. "Samurai" being the keyword. Xebec, Roger, Whitebeard(Prime) and Shanks being the "Pirates" captains who defeat (probably) him but I'm sure other people like Sengoku, the 3 OG Admirals (for the Navy), Rayleigh, Gaban (for the non captains), Shiki could fight him and damage him as much as Oden did if not more... Garp would wipe the floor with him

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I honestly don't feel like Oden was as strong as some people make him look... Sure he was a born monster like Linlin and grew up to be an even greater monster for Wano but for the outside world he was just someone really strong like there's many out there.
Linlin destroyed a whole Giant village as a kid and her potential was said to be monstrious and yet even her isn't confident enough to defeat Kaido.
Oden was never on the level of legendary pirates like Roger and Whitebeard. Heck, I'm pretty sure Rayleigh was (and would still be if he hadn't retired) stronger than him.
At best, if he was still alive, he'd be "Current" Yonko level.
Kaido's obsession for Oden is of him being a Samurai of Wano. He keeps comparing the samouraïs to Oden because for him there will never be a Samurai as strong or stronger than Oden. "Samurai" being the keyword. Xebec, Roger, Whitebeard(Prime) and Shanks being the "Pirates" captains who defeat (probably) him but I'm sure other people like Sengoku, the 3 OG Admirals (for the Navy), Rayleigh, Gaban (for the non captains), Shiki could fight him and damage him as much as Oden did if not more... Garp would wipe the floor with him

One kaido was probably thinking of the great pirates he fought and defeated him or he thought are capable of defeating ( I’m assuming he and shiki probably never fought and he sees linlin as a big sis really even tho they fight a lot )
He didn’t mention any of the marines
Wow so see the folks you mentioned
The 3 admirals who are confirmed beasts , shiki another dude probably around roger level and garp the dude who’s probably the strongest marine in history
Rayleigh and scopper are kinda speculative but I won’t be surprised if they were capable but they’re still not quite the level of dudes that kaido has hyped up so far

again it’s not just about character KAido respects STRENGTH and fighting ability above all else , if you’re not up to snuff he’ thinks your weaksauce that above all else why kaido respected oden and compares everyone he has encountered since then , even when he fought the scabbards now he lamented that maybe if they were as strong as oden they could kill him

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

(Not that they’re aren’t stronger than him but there’s a clear narrative choice Oda did here)

Exactly! The narrative is clear but the message may be ambiguous. Oden is among the few who can hurt/damage and more likely than not defeat Kaido (this part is speculative).

Roger, Rocks, and Whitebeard at that time would 100% defeat Kaido no doubt.

As for Shanks, also a maybe. Probably a much higher chance than Oden but still speculative.

That's my point.

I think we are on the same page with everything else

 

[M3J]

Again, isn't the same for Whitebeard and Roger? Kaido could withstand damage, and probably knock them out with the club like he did with Oden.

HIghly doubt it in Whitebeard's case. For Roger I dunno. Actually, for Whitebeard, I don't think he'd be able to manage that.

When did he knock out Oden?

He was knocked out and oden was about to finish him off
Yeah kaido is the physically toughest character in the show but oden had him dead to rights

HIghly doubt that'd have happened, Kaidou would have likely tanked the blow and gotten back up to keep fighting.

 

[A$APBog]

HIghly doubt that'd have happened, Kaidou would have likely tanked the blow and gotten back up to keep fighting.

No disrespect but that's clearly headcannoning right now.

Again, why Oda would put a bait and make Oden lose unfairly if Kaidou was able to properly 1v1 him ?

I mean, if Kaidou was actually stronger than him, I don't see why as an author he would use such an outdated and obvious storytelling tool.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

HIghly doubt it in Whitebeard's case. For Roger I dunno. Actually, for Whitebeard, I don't think he'd be able to manage that.

When did he knock out Oden?



HIghly doubt that'd have happened, Kaidou would have likely tanked the blow and gotten back up to keep fighting.

Kaido doesn’t even feel the same
Cause he gets mad that his duel got interrupted and had the hag killed
He was knocked out , oden had him and could have done everything he wanted and finished him off
He literally spends all the time complaining that everyone’s else’s blows are too shallow and can’t really really hurt/kill him

 

[grey matter]

Kaido would mid diff Oden

Yeah, everyone right now sucks compared to Oden, considering they're all no diff/low diff material for Kaido.

Oden would be able to kill Kaido since he can damage. Doesn't mean he's stronger.
There are select few who can kill Kaido, if he decided to just stay put and allow them free hits. The rest wouldn't even be able to make a dent

Kaido always jobs and allows enemies to hit him because he believes he's invincible. Like, he allowed Luffy to hit him many times in their R1, before blitzing and one shotting him.
Well, against Oden it backfired since Oden is strong enough to damage him.

If Kaido fights seriously from the very beginning, Oden is going down mid diff in a 1v1.

But he's also right that if Oden, his scabbards + samurai fought together, he and his beast pirates would've probably lost.
Many of the scabbards are YC level.
If Oden alone can give him mid diff, then Oden + 2-3 Scabbards as support can take down Kaido, while other scabbards can take down his 3 YCs. And samurais take down the rest of the beast pirates.

Why is this downplay lol?
Rogers, peak WB and maybe peak Garp are the only characters I see surely above Kaido. Shanks is maybe above Kaido, but IMHO Shanks is high diff material for Kaido until feats come later. Big mom can give Kaido high diff.


At best, Oden is high diff material for him.

I mean, if Kaidou was actually stronger than him, I don't see why as an author he would use such an outdated and obvious storytelling tool.

It isn't really that uncommon in anime/manga to have stronger guys take down weaker ones, but with some catch/advantage etc. i.e, not a clean win.

It happens when the author wants to protect the said character, for some narrative purpose for eg.
Oden's legend is him being an unstoppable force as a samurai, which is why he's still a huge inspiration for the samurai after 20 years.
And Kaido's schtick is that he's unbeatable in a 1v1.

A clean win for either doesn't bode well for the established plot/narrative.

 

[M3J]

To make Oden look stronger than he is, and to make Kaidou look more villainous. It doesn't have to be because Kaidou might lose to Oden, especially if Kaidou would rather play it safe.

That's a wonky logic. "Why would he use an outdated and obvious storytelling tool?" As if Oda hasn't come up with weird ways for Luffy to win or for enemies after Luffy and his crew to leave him alone because someone in the crew fought and lost.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 18, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 18, 2021 ---

Kaido doesn’t even feel the same
Cause he gets mad that his duel got interrupted and had the hag killed
He was knocked out , oden had him and could have done everything he wanted and finished him off
He literally spends all the time complaining that everyone’s else’s blows are too shallow and can’t really really hurt/kill him

I mean, Kaidou's taken blows after blows, and that still hasn't stopped him. Oda's also told us that Kaidou's been captured, was supposed to be executed, and whatnot, and he survived all that.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

To make Oden look stronger than he is, and to make Kaidou look more villainous. It doesn't have to be because Kaidou might lose to Oden, especially if Kaidou would rather play it safe.

That's a wonky logic. "Why would he use an outdated and obvious storytelling tool?" As if Oda hasn't come up with weird ways for Luffy to win or for enemies after Luffy and his crew to leave him alone because someone in the crew fought and lost.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 18, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 18, 2021 ---

I mean, Kaidou's taken blows after blows, and that still hasn't stopped him. Oda's also told us that Kaidou's been captured, was supposed to be executed, and whatnot, and he survived all that.

Again the weird ways luffy has won has been explained
Enel - DF weakness and advantage
Crocodile - over realiance on his DF

heck the first time kaido and oden fought , they were already shown to be around the same level , kaido had tested his strength already if he wanted to kill and defeat there and then he would have after he had tested but hw didn’t , oden was tough and kaido recognized it was a tough out

Oda is deliberate the struggle wasn’t about might , he crafted it so oden had to be blackmailed and tricked not beaten outright or clean

 

[A$APBog]

To make Oden look stronger than he is, and to make Kaidou look more villainous. It doesn't have to be because Kaidou might lose to Oden, especially if Kaidou would rather play it safe.

That's a wonky logic. "Why would he use an outdated and obvious storytelling tool?" As if Oda hasn't come up with weird ways for Luffy to win or for enemies after Luffy and his crew to leave him alone because someone in the crew fought and lost.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 18, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 18, 2021 ---

I mean, Kaidou's taken blows after blows, and that still hasn't stopped him. Oda's also told us that Kaidou's been captured, was supposed to be executed, and whatnot, and he survived all that.

So if I understand you correctly, Oda would show Oden completely overpower Kaidou in their last fair interaction, knock him out (not for too long, but we can clearly see him as knocked out) write a dialogue where it is clearly inted that the former would finish the latter with a last hit, put a hostage, make Kaidou beat Oden by an unfair strike with the purpose to not show that Oden was stronger than Kaidou but only to make his audience believe that Oden was stronger that what he seemed to be ?

Therefore, the whole point of this scene would be only executed as it is in order to fool us ?


My second thoughts would be that it is a weird choice of storytelling.

Plus, I don't exactly know why he would do that too because it would not really change the way people where seeing Oden or have a huge impact on the story but I guess you're right, even though I find it reallg weird.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Kaido was down for 10-30 seconds. Oden would have won if it wasn’t for the cheap distraction that Kaido has set up ahead of time.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

So if I understand you correctly, Oda would show Oden completely overpower Kaidou in their last fair interaction, knock him out (not for too long, but we can clearly see him as knocked out) write a dialogue where it is clearly inted that the former would finish the latter with a last hit, put a hostage, make Kaidou beat Oden by an unfair strike with the purpose to not show that Oden was stronger than Kaidou but only to make his audience believe that Oden was stronger that what he seemed to be ?

Therefore, the whole point of this scene would be only executed as it is in order to fool us ?


My second thoughts would be that it is a weird choice of storytelling.

Plus, I don't exactly know why he would do that too because it would not really change the way people where seeing Oden or have a huge impact on the story but I guess you're right, even though I find it reallg weird.

Fam the logic circles make no sense
The simplest and most logical straight line , from story telling to hype that paint a clearer story of oden >= kaido at that time , instead of surprisingly convoluted theory instead of Oda just simply making oden lose in a 1 vs 1

and this is coming from someone who actually doesn’t care much for oden as a character but as a fighter oden is incredible

 

[M3J]

Again the weird ways luffy has won has been explained
Enel - DF weakness and advantage
Crocodile - over realiance on his DF

heck the first time kaido and oden fought , they were already shown to be around the same level , kaido had tested his strength already if he wanted to kill and defeat there and then he would have after he had tested but hw didn’t , oden was tough and kaido recognized it was a tough out

Oda is deliberate the struggle wasn’t about might , he crafted it so oden had to be blackmailed and tricked not beaten outright or clean

Just two examples of many of his fights, but it doesn't change anything. Kaidou also has a habit of going easy on his opponents

So if I understand you correctly, Oda would show Oden completely overpower Kaidou in their last fair interaction, knock him out (not for too long, but we can clearly see him as knocked out) write a dialogue where it is clearly inted that the former would finish the latter with a last hit, put a hostage, make Kaidou beat Oden by an unfair strike with the purpose to not show that Oden was stronger than Kaidou but only to make his audience believe that Oden was stronger that what he seemed to be ?

Therefore, the whole point of this scene would be only executed as it is in order to fool us ?


My second thoughts would be that it is a weird choice of storytelling.

Plus, I don't exactly know why he would do that too because it would not really change the way people where seeing Oden or have a huge impact on the story but I guess you're right, even though I find it reallg weird.

Yes? I mean, It's Oda and One Piece, why would he care too much about what storytelling he uses as long as it's fun/unpredictable? Most people would likely see Oden as supremely powerful, or some people might see that Oden might not have won regardless, given Kaidou's ability to tank. One Piece has had weird moments in it just for the fun of it.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Just two examples of many of his fights, but it doesn't change anything. Kaidou also has a habit of going easy on his opponents



Yes? I mean, It's Oda and One Piece, why would he care too much about what storytelling he uses as long as it's fun/unpredictable? Most people would likely see Oden as supremely powerful, or some people might see that Oden might not have won regardless, given Kaidou's ability to tank. One Piece has had weird moments in it just for the fun of it.

Yes because luffy is the protagonist of the show , the writer sometimes uses inventive ways for him to win , which he lays out completely , by this logic no one is really stronger than the other when they win fights in one piece and we have to re examine each and every single fight then :/
Most of luffy other fights he’s won straight up

also kaido has a habit of testing out opponents to gauge their strength , he has already clashed with oden and knew he was the real deal , the man who tanked a named attack from roger pretty well as well as clash with whitebeard and Had gotten significantly stronger since then is someone kaido would look to “hold back” against , again he saw oden as being as great a pirate as shanks, xebec , roger and WB, it makes no sense to assume he just held back
Literally all kaido does is lament that everyone ain’t shit compared to oden and that maybe if some guys were capable of fighting at his level maybe they could kill him , and the conclusion from that is nah they holding back ?!?

 

[A$APBog]

Just two examples of many of his fights, but it doesn't change anything. Kaidou also has a habit of going easy on his opponents



Yes? I mean, It's Oda and One Piece, why would he care too much about what storytelling he uses as long as it's fun/unpredictable? Most people would likely see Oden as supremely powerful, or some people might see that Oden might not have won regardless, given Kaidou's ability to tank. One Piece has had weird moments in it just for the fun of it.

I mean, I don't remember the humiliation of Oden followed by a raid which has surely occasioned a hundredth l, if not a thousand of death and marking the downfall of an entire nation followed by years of massive starvation really funny but well... I'm not really a funny guy, therefore I guess that's my bad

 

[Gallon]

Oden would have won that fight, but it doesn't mean he's stronger. A clean blow in a fight between two fighters of that calibre can shift the tides of the battle considerably.
Kaido played a stupid game by underestimating Oden and using his weakest form, and he won a stupid prize.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Oden was different gravy , he was the strongest commander whitebeard had at the time
Heck whitebeard called him “brother” not son , the respect both oden and roger had for oden was incredible

In the official translation it even whitebeard calls oden “something incredible”

heck see who steps up to take on oden , scopper Rayleigh and then roger

and again kaido had oden had clashed before , kaido respected oden strength thesudden idea he’d hold back makes sense ,

 

[LaGOAT]

I have to agree with my boy @grey matter oden is at best admiral lvl yes I think do think that yonko>admiral but kaido>oden. Oden wasn’t yonko lvl yet (maybe if he was alive like currently) 2. Kaido putting oden with shanks and the other yonkos doesn’t mean jack i mean he also put luffy but we know luffy isn’t in their lvl yet 2. Garp was on there either and we know garp is probably around Rogers/WB TIER

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I have to agree with my boy @grey matter oden is at best admiral lvl yes I think do think that yonko>admiral but kaido>oden. Oden wasn’t yonko lvl yet (maybe if he was alive like currently) 2. Kaido putting oden with shanks and the other yonkos doesn’t mean jack i mean he also put luffy but we know luffy isn’t in their lvl yet 2. Garp was on there either and we know garp is probably around Rogers/WB TIER

He didn’t put Luffy at their level , he was surprised luffy had a similar ability
And he was clearly talking about great PIRATES he respected
The dismal for clear dialogue and actual reference for head canon is weird to me in regards to it oden