One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Zolo was still a mystery to how he got to YC1. In Dressrosa he was maybe top VA level we dont know but weaker than YC3 Doffy since Luffy > Zolo. Then we jump into Wano, no battles no training and he is stronger than Killer, understandable, somewhat struggles with Hawkins and Gyukimaru, though Im sure if he were to be more serious he'd finish them off soon. Then we get to the rooftop and now he is YC1. We didnt see him get to that level. Disappointing.

I disagree. We never seen the extent of Zoro's full power until now. For all we know, Zoro could have been YC2+ since Dressrossa. He pushed back Fujitora after all. He was also ready to take on Fujitora along with Luffy at the end of the arc too.

I also have to disagree that Zoro is YC1 level. It's a uphill battle for Zoro. King and Zoro are not on par. When Zoro beats King, he will be YC1. Same with Sanji.

As for struggling with weaker characters. That's Oda being a bad writer. Just like how Luffy got KO'd by Apoo. Yamato being held up by Sasaki. Luffy and Ulti exchange was on par etc...

 

[M3J]

He did damage King and Queen with his attacks. It's just that they are also incredibly tanky, as we have seen already.
Let me put it this way. Assume, Queen ~ 0.8 King. If King and Marco are near equals, then adding Queen would allow the duo to fold Marco fairly easily. Which they couldn't. Marco fought them for hours, and even expended quite a bit of energy to heal up thousands of allied soliders.
Not sure how you can see this and not come to the obvious conclusion regarding Marco/King.

Why wouldn't you care about Marco matching Akainu's attacks? That does suggest his attack power is close to Akainu's. The implication here is fairly obvious.

Hmm, if Admirals couldn't take him down, even when they are serious (like Akainu), what does it suggest? To me it suggests they are somewhat close in power.
Marco can give Marineford Akainu a high diff fight

Ah okay, then I likely do stand corrected if he dealt damage to them, and it'd probably imply he could win one-on-one or perhaps two-on-one without distraction?

Wins, losses, and damages matter, that's why it's not that easy to conclude who of the two is superior. If Marco was consistently damaging the two, but neither could hurt him, then one could imply Marco's superiority. Again, I'm not saying he's not, I'm just wondering why the claim.

Because I know Marco can take Akainu's attacks thanks to his fruit. He can take almost any attack as long as he can use his fruit, even if he gets a hole burned through him. However, how can Marco win if he can't deal damage?

As for struggling with weaker characters. That's Oda being a bad writer. Just like how Luffy got KO'd by Apoo. Yamato being held up by Sasaki. Luffy and Ulti exchange was on par etc...

How is that bad writing though? If anything that's on Luffy for being reckless without knowing what Apoo can do. It's not like Apoo took out Luffy with a blunt attack, did he?

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I disagree. We never seen the extent of Zoro's full power until now. For all we know, Zoro could have been YC2+ since Dressrossa. He pushed back Fujitora after all. He was also ready to take on Fujitora along with Luffy at the end of the arc too.

I also have to disagree that Zoro is YC1 level. It's a uphill battle for Zoro. King and Zoro are not on par. When Zoro beats King, he will be YC1. Same with Sanji.

As for struggling with weaker characters. That's Oda being a bad writer. Just like how Luffy got KO'd by Apoo. Yamato being held up by Sasaki. Luffy and Ulti exchange was on par etc...

Luffy tends to preserve his strength and fight down to his enemies , plus ulti actually isn’t a scrub
And with Zoro we’ve actually never seen him go all out at all in the new world
Apoo ability is tricky and luffy wasn’t ready

 

[AmitDS]

Oh.. we talking about Marco vs King again? And that King supposedly took down the entirety of the BMP with her onboard as well again? Totally not related to Zoro lol. Not surprised, I saw this person arguing that Zoro is > BM AND Kaido because it took 2 of them to engage him, while both Kidd and Law engaged with BM.

Zoro = 2 Yonkou confirmed.

 

[XXGenesis]

It’s bad Writing…I just had to erase a wall post because it’s just complaint after complaint….ODA sacrificed his power scaling relevancy for Story telling. Which still overall takes away from the story telling..smh

Sanji is fighting hurting Queen with DJ???
Why?! It didn’t work against Doflamingo..Story telling

Zoro one shot Killer; Did he rlly need to be on the rooftop? How does his Ebony Scythe raise his endurance to survive Big Mom’s attacks? & still defeat Hawkins later on…Story telling


I’ll love #PL’s too!! So I’ll play

Kaido- 5500 Hybrid
Big Mom- 5150
Marco- 4250
Yamato- 4200 Hybrid
Luffy- 4800 *latest chapter
Kidd- 3750
Law- 3850
Zoro- 3900
King- 4100
Queen-4000
Sanji-3800

 

[Crimson Ice]

It’s bad Writing…I just had to erase a wall post because it’s just complaint after complaint….ODA sacrificed his power scaling relevancy for Story telling. Which still overall takes away from the story telling..smh

Sanji is fighting hurting Queen with DJ???
Why?! It didn’t work against Doflamingo..Story telling

Zoro one shot Killer; Did he rlly need to be on the rooftop? How does his Ebony Scythe raise his endurance to survive Big Mom’s attacks? & still defeat Hawkins later on…Story telling


I’ll love #PL’s too!! So I’ll play

Kaido- 5500 Hybrid
Big Mom- 5150
Marco- 4250
Yamato- 4200 Hybrid
Luffy- 4800 *latest chapter
Kidd- 3750
Law- 3850
Zoro- 3900
King- 4100
Queen-4000
Sanji-3800

Zoro also passed out from the injuries Killer gave him...I guess neither deserved to be up there.

As for the Sanji part...He got stronger, it's not rocket science. It's gotten to the point where Oda shouldn't have to tell the readers that people can get stronger between arcs.

 

[M3J]

Trying to power scale or determine power among strong fighters is unnecessary because it's not just about power, but devil fruit, fighting styles, haki mastery, and brains. Zoro could lose to Doflamingo easily as soon as Doflamingo wraps his strings around just because Zoro can't break it like Luffy in Gear 4 did, even if Zoro is capable of cutting through with enough momentum. Luffy might not be able to beat Zoro's opponents simply because Luffy can't handle swords, and haki-clad swords vs. haki would likely result in his loss unless his haki is superior.

 

[Fox666]

Marco fought King and Queen alone for hours, while also expending his flames to heal up thousands of allies soldiers. And the dude is still up and running, taking a back seat only because he wants the strawhats to take the spotlight (his own words)
I think this alone should indicate that Marco is stronger than King by a decent margin.

Apart from that, he fought Kizaru for a while in even terms, and matched attacks from angry Akainu intended to kill Luffy.
The dude is borderline admiral tier.

He also has been the right hand man of the strongest pirate for quite a while (better portrayal than being right hand man of Kaido), who was said to have the strongest crew back during Marineford IIRC

The only thing King has going on for him is the higher bounty, but bounty is not just a function of power, but also of violence/threat level. Marco is retired, and was a calm and relatively non violent pirate to begin with, which is likely why his bounty is lower.
I'm 100% sure Katakuri > Queen, but Queen has much higher bounty.
Same with Zoro in Shabody, he had the 2nd lowest bounty among supernova, but was the 3rd or 4th strongest. Kid also had higher bounty than Luffy, IIRC explained in the series itself as because he un-necessarily starts fights and gets overly violent.

All things considered, IMO Marco mid-high diffs King

Of course Marco is stronger than King.

He fought both King and Queen for a while, and only lost because it was 1-vs-2.

King's bounty is higher because he's chaotic evil.

 

[XXGenesis]

Zoro also passed out from the injuries Killer gave him...I guess neither deserved to be up there.

As for the Sanji part...He got stronger, it's not rocket science. It's gotten to the point where Oda shouldn't have to tell the readers that people can get stronger between arcs.

You be contrarian, so will I.

Zoro ate the poisonous food outside the Flower capital, which only strong ppl can do, but it makes them go Sh&t like with Kinemon….

Same Zoro stopped 2 Yonkou’s Haki attack…Since you wanna be Oda’s lawyer

No Sh&t Sanji got stronger, that’s what I just highlighted. What type of magic, non explained,no development power up is that?!?!

It’s bad writing. My only excuse for Oda is that Wano is way too packed! Too many plot points and characters….SHP, Minks, Scabbards, Wano’s citizens, BM, Kaido, SN, CP0……it’s a lot

Yes Oda does need to tell the readers how a character got stronger when they don’t have a track record of being strong…WTF?!

I seen Jinbei in WCI preform well.
I’ve seen Marco in Marineford preform well.
I’ve seen Law in Dressrosa preform ok lol.
I’ve seen Zoro preform well PTS.

So when they do impressive shit it makes sense. When they get a minor bump. Not when, bones are breaking, can’t outrun or save Luffy w/o Germa helping. All of a sudden he’s commander lv; that’s bad writing

 

[Crimson Ice]

You be contrarian, so will I.

Zoro ate the poisonous food outside the Flower capital, which only strong ppl can do, but it makes them go Sh&t like with Kinemon….

Same Zoro stopped 2 Yonkou’s Haki attack…Since you wanna be Oda’s lawyer

No Sh&t Sanji got stronger, that’s what I just highlighted. What type of magic, non explained,no development power up is that?!?!

It’s bad writing. My only excuse for Oda is that Wano is way too packed! Too many plot points and characters….SHP, Minks, Scabbards, Wano’s citizens, BM, Kaido, SN, CP0……it’s a lot

Yes Oda does need to tell the readers how a character got stronger when they don’t have a track record of being strong…WTF?!

I seen Jinbei in WCI preform well.
I’ve seen Marco in Marineford preform well.
I’ve seen Law in Dressrosa preform ok lol.
I’ve seen Zoro preform well PTS.

So when they do impressive shit it makes sense. When they get a minor bump. Not when, bones are breaking, can’t outrun or save Luffy w/o Germa helping. All of a sudden he’s commander lv; that’s bad writing

Nothing implies that poison food knocked him out, IIRC it just hurt Zoro and Luffy's stomach.

Boy, Zoro stopped a Yonko attack for a moment, literally Law immediately swapped everyone out of there and yet he broke damn near every bone in his body. While that's impressive, that doesn't mean you need to be Yonko tier to put Zoro down.

Don't get sassy when you can't even comprehend my post. Characters get stronger over time, this has been happening for a VERY LONG TIME. The fact you're complaining about it now is hilarious. Oda doesn't give a detailed explanation for every jump in power in the series. This is no different from Luffy being stronger than he was in Alabasta compared to Arlong Park.

You think Sanji doesn't have a track record of being strong? LMAOOOOO


Not to mention Oda still went out of his way to keep up the monster trio dynamic just for fans like you to still dismiss Sanji as being weak.

Jinbei beat up on fodders in WCI.
Law got beat up for most of Dressrosa.
And Zoro was beating up on small fry for most of the TS.

Sure, Jinbei and Zoro have looked cool, but before Wano neither has beaten anyone of note for you to be talking about them like this.

Meanwhile, Sanji was out fighting Vergo and Doffy in skirmishes and not full fights yet he's a weakling because of it.

The fact Oda uses Sanji to show off the antagonists such ass Vergo and Doffy is a testament to how Oda views him strength-wise, Oda would never have them beat up on Chopper because that doesn't hold weight.


It's funny because Law has definitely not gotten a minor bump. Even if we ignore the latest chapter, rooftop Law is significantly stronger than Dressrosa Law. Would I have liked to see a more gradual progression? Yes. Is it bad writing? No.

 

[grey matter]

Of course Marco is stronger than King.

He fought both King and Queen for a while, and only lost because it was 1-vs-2.

King's bounty is higher because he's chaotic evil.

Yeah, that's what I said

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Oct 29, 2021 ---

It’s bad Writing…I just had to erase a wall post because it’s just complaint after complaint….ODA sacrificed his power scaling relevancy for Story telling. Which still overall takes away from the story telling..smh

Sanji is fighting hurting Queen with DJ???
Why?! It didn’t work against Doflamingo..Story telling

Zoro one shot Killer; Did he rlly need to be on the rooftop? How does his Ebony Scythe raise his endurance to survive Big Mom’s attacks? & still defeat Hawkins later on…Story telling


I’ll love #PL’s too!! So I’ll play

Kaido- 5500 Hybrid
Big Mom- 5150
Marco- 4250
Yamato- 4200 Hybrid
Luffy- 4800 *latest chapter
Kidd- 3750
Law- 3850
Zoro- 3900
King- 4100
Queen-4000
Sanji-3800

Killer gave him a good fight, it wasn't a one shot. Killer also didn't have his usual weapons, while Zoro had 2 swords.

But yeah, I overall agree with the sentiment. The characters get strong randomly just cause it's needed for the plot, the only one who has convincingly jumped this far is Luffy IMO

 

[Pirate Queen]

It’s bad Writing…I just had to erase a wall post because it’s just complaint after complaint….ODA sacrificed his power scaling relevancy for Story telling. Which still overall takes away from the story telling..smh

Sanji is fighting hurting Queen with DJ???
Why?! It didn’t work against Doflamingo..Story telling

Zoro one shot Killer; Did he rlly need to be on the rooftop? How does his Ebony Scythe raise his endurance to survive Big Mom’s attacks? & still defeat Hawkins later on…Story telling


I’ll love #PL’s too!! So I’ll play

Kaido- 5500 Hybrid
Big Mom- 5150
Marco- 4250
Yamato- 4200 Hybrid
Luffy- 4800 *latest chapter
Kidd- 3750
Law- 3850
Zoro- 3900
King- 4100
Queen-4000
Sanji-3800

There is a whole lot of context missing in your examples....

 

[XXGenesis]

Nothing implies that poison food knocked him out, IIRC it just hurt Zoro and Luffy's stomach.

Boy, Zoro stopped a Yonko attack for a moment, literally Law immediately swapped everyone out of there and yet he broke damn near every bone in his body. While that's impressive, that doesn't mean you need to be Yonko tier to put Zoro down.

Don't get sassy when you can't even comprehend my post. Characters get stronger over time, this has been happening for a VERY LONG TIME. The fact you're complaining about it now is hilarious. Oda doesn't give a detailed explanation for every jump in power in the series. This is no different from Luffy being stronger than he was in Alabasta compared to Arlong Park.

You think Sanji doesn't have a track record of being strong? LMAOOOOO


Not to mention Oda still went out of his way to keep up the monster trio dynamic just for fans like you to still dismiss Sanji as being weak.

Jinbei beat up on fodders in WCI.
Law got beat up for most of Dressrosa.
And Zoro was beating up on small fry for most of the TS.

Sure, Jinbei and Zoro have looked cool, but before Wano neither has beaten anyone of note for you to be talking about them like this.

Meanwhile, Sanji was out fighting Vergo and Doffy in skirmishes and not full fights yet he's a weakling because of it.

The fact Oda uses Sanji to show off the antagonists such ass Vergo and Doffy is a testament to how Oda views him strength-wise, Oda would never have them beat up on Chopper because that doesn't hold weight.


It's funny because Law has definitely not gotten a minor bump. Even if we ignore the latest chapter, rooftop Law is significantly stronger than Dressrosa Law. Would I have liked to see a more gradual progression? Yes. Is it bad writing? No.

You wrote all this to say what?? You literally repeated shit, that’s already been discussed on this forum for months, maybe even years…

You don’t have to agree with my points; But I’m sure as hell not gonna act like your opinion holds weight because you just wrote a wall of contradictory blah blah blah

There is a whole lot of context missing in your examples....

Add it, or keep it pushing.

I’m not rehashing the manga writing every single detail, as if the fans here haven’t read the manga.

 

[Crimson Ice]

You wrote all this to say what?? You literally repeated shit, that’s already been discussed on this forum for months, maybe even years…

You don’t have to agree with my points; But I’m sure as hell not gonna act like your opinion holds weight because you just wrote a wall of contradictory blah blah blah




Add it, or keep it pushing.

I’m not rehashing the manga writing every single detail, as if the fans here haven’t read the manga.

This is a sorry-ass reply, you yourself are repeating talking points. And why did you mention a bunch of discussions I HAVEN'T BEEN IN. I don't care about the discussions other people have had, and I'm sure you couldn't give a good rebuttal back then,

Your opinion seems to be based on reading the manga without applying any context to the situations at hand. If you had NO decent response you could have just not replied, yet you said this. It's okay to not be able to reply, you just don't have to cry about it.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Interesting theory going around is that numbers are science experiments in which kaido converted the soldiers he failed to break
As the numbers and samurai do have some visual similarities

 

[I Am Atomic]

Interesting theory going around is that numbers are science experiments in which kaido converted the soldiers he failed to break
As the numbers and samurai do have some visual similarities

Spoiler: Oops I forgot to put spoiler

Is that tweet accurate? "Samurai that killed Yamato"

I don't see the similarities. And it's not even the 3 samurai, it's just the tach number who looks like the tach samurai.

Can the theory be plausible? Yes, I don't see why not.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Spoiler: 1030

Interesting theory going around is that numbers are science experiments in which kaido converted the soldiers he failed to break
As the numbers and samurai do have some visual similarities

Dude! I was saying this yesterday!!!!

 

[LaGOAT]

People forget that king didn’t go all out against Marco. I understand that marco was fighting both queen and king but I don’t think neither was going all out. But I believe that king=marco>queen when things are set and done. For right now Marco has the slight edge.

katakuri is slightly weaker than king and marco but stronger than queen.

@grey matter u fought that luffy got help from nami too right? imo DD=Cracker YC3 tier

 

[albertwv]

Interesting theory going around is that numbers are science experiments in which kaido converted the soldiers he failed to break
As the numbers and samurai do have some visual similarities

If this is a spoiler from today's chapter 10/29/2021, then add a spoiler tag please. I think the rule says within 24 hours after chapter has been released.

Readers want to see sensible character strength progression. We know characters get stronger after each fight/arc, but in Shonen or my previous reading experiences (DBZ, Bleach, Naruto, Fairy Tail, OP man, D-Grayman, etc) only the main characters usually get a power up not the side characters or villain WITHOUT an explanation. Law's power up with no explanation is wrong and goes against sensible story telling. Usually villains or side characters do not get strong over time without them actually training or timeskip or an explanation.
Also once they reach an age they stop getting stronger, I bet Marco is still as strong as he was in MF. Jimbei probably hasnt gotten stronger since he became a Warlord. Im not talking about age peak but more of comfort, characters reach a certain level and stop training because they are strong in their views.

Someone mentioned that Zolo was probably YC2 after timeskip. I call bullshit on that. Yes we never really saw the extent of Zolo's PL after timeskip up to the rooftop.
Zolo one shotted a merman, he took down Pica almost effortlessly or rather without injury (Pica could be high VA level), briefly clashed with Fujitora (which people will never shut up about, this does not put Zolo anywhere near admiral level tho), fought Hawkins and Killer who somewhat gave him trouble initially but were no real real threat. None of these battles pushed Zolo like Kaku or Mr. 1 did. That is disappointing. Why did Oda hide Zolo's true power?
I doubt Zolo was stronger than Luffy after timeskip, that makes no sense.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Also I’ve mentally bumped up doflamingo not overall just in regards to DF MASTERY, he’s somewhere between YC1 and YC1+ if not admiral in regards to DF mastery ( like enel ) just that his haki and fighting style might be a bit lower considering what law and kidd say how draining using awakening is for them , unless awakening isn’t always draining ( ala impel down fruit users ) but he’s hard to scale as a Rock Paper Scissors type now imo
He’s still in YC4+ to YC3 level to me