One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[XXGenesis]

@goldb
New idea for a discussion rule, ban all any conversations about whether Enma is an unfair power-up. They never lead to any convulsive answer and are just toxic and become heated.

Wait hold up, I ain’t even get to jump into the fray yet. Lol gotta learn who’s disrespectful for no reason and who’s a troll. It’s not the topics it’s the ppl arguing more than debating the topic.

Zoro ALWAYS got a power up when he got a New Sword. Damn the hate grew that much lol forget this FACT.
1)New Sword was always better than old sword; Sharper/durable
2) Zoro trains in between arcs, offscreen/onscreen as to why he improves aside from just having a better sword.

Luffy is a DF user. Luffy was never weak, Garp trained him & he lived with Ace & Sabo who were back then were stronger than him. Luffy DF prowess was ass & he basically couldn’t use it effectively without a few years of training. Luffy throughout the manga has truly mastered his DF ability to make him a force to be reckoned with and just doing some impossible shit. Imagining him without it is pointless, his trajectory would have taken a different route, but he would be just as strong with a different fighting style not centered around his DF.

Sanji’s power up was weird ASF until the most recent chapters, when Oda brings everything full circle. DJ was activated by spinning, which was kool made sense for OP at the time, until he stopped spinning….Queen hints at what DNA may have been used for Sanji’s augmentation, but Sanji’s augmentation is awakened after he wears the suit only twice. He destroys it, & starts to burn up with hell memories and seemingly disappeared.

Idc about power ups as long as they are written in reasonably; Sanji’s power up seemed weird but Oda made sense of it & expounded many chapters later; so there we have it

**Oda may have Sanji be able to access his Germa genes as he once said, through Passion/ Powerful Emotions.

 

[Fallou]

Lol it’s not a wet dream. It’s Oda, Nuanced way of keeping the top 3 fighter relatively close rivals.

Zoro is closer to Luffy than Sanji. Sanji is closer to Zoro than Luffy. Simple as that.

There is a gap between them. It shrinks in between the arcs and grows when it’s time to fight the other group of bad guys.

You can deny this because you don’t like Zoro being close to Luffy. Same way someone can deny Sanji is close to Zoro. It varies but they are very close at times

I never they they weren't close, but please, go ahead and reply to posts without reading them.
Luffy got FS, aCoA, aCoC.
Zoro doesn't even have confirmed CoC yet. That's a fact from the fucking manga. So yeah, Luffy is ahead
Why anyone even would contest that is beyond me.

 

[grey matter]

If both parties were healed up and had a rematch again, Sanji would use DJ to beat Jabra within seconds and Zoro would use Asura to defeat Kaku in seconds.

Zoro wasn't even able to scratch Mr. 1 before unlocking BOAT, he did 100% of the damage with one hit, if they fought again Zoro would Shishi Shonson him within one second.

If Goku fights character x and gets his ass handed to him then unlocks super saiyan and one-shots, we say SSJ Goku neg/low-diffed character X not Goku had an extreme diff fight with character x. Though I guess if you look at the overall fight this is technically true. But it gives the wrong impression characters on Character X's level could now give Goku extreme-diff fights when actually Goku can now neg/low-diff characters on Character X's level.

Once the character gets a power-up it counts as a new fight.

There are 2 different types of extreme diff. Imagine if Goku starts a fight against someone, gets destroyed and badly beaten up then unlocks ssj1 and stomps his opponent. Then look at a fight in which Goku starts in SSJ1 and then has a long drawn out, hard fight with his opponent.

Both of these fights are technically extreme diff if you look at the overall fight, but they both have drastically different effects on powerscaling.

1 means after the fight, Goku would be able to low-diff people on his opponent’s level while 2 means that people on the opponent’s level will still be able to push Goku to extreme diff.

I get what you're saying, but it's not quite the same scenario.

Sanji and Zoro are getting a new mode, or a boost to their base/stats. They just got new abilities.

For Sanji's case, Jabra tanked a few attacks from diable jump. In the end, they were about to land the final blows, where they both charged their attacks. In which case, Sanji landed his attack through strategy and finished off Jabra.
He can't sit around and charge his attack right off the bat, and expect Jabra not to interrupt his charge or dodge his charged attack. His normal diable jumps are very much tankable for Jabra

For Zoro's case. Kaku isn't going to sit and allow Zoro to charge. The reason Zoro was able to do it was because Kaku himself was charging up his final attack, giving Zoro time to charge the attack himself.
The logic you're using can be used to say Zoro one shots most opponents he has face by instantly using Asura, which obviously isn't the case. Why isn't he using Asura against King right off the bat? Of course because King won't sit around and give Zoro time to charge up his attack.

 

[Ricko]

I really don't understand the debat about the trio strength...

It's obviously Luffy > Zoro > Sanji.

Not for their rough skill, I think their are almost in par, but one got a Devil Fruit, the other three sword... While the last only fight with his feet...
Obviously Sanji got a big handicap, just by his fighting style...

If Queen was against Zoro, with all the opening he let to Sanji, he would have finish in dinosaure steak since long time.
But Sanji fighting style is not lethal, for that reason he struggle against strong and endurant opponent.

The real question is more, if Sanji was a logia or a mythic Zoan, how much will he be stronger ? He would have eat the mera mera no mi, Doflamingo would not have the same smile during their confrontation
But I prefer Sanji as a role of strategist and smart fighter, and leave the big brawling to Zoro and Luffy.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I consider it a low diff.

Lucci can threaten anything he wants. Crocodile threatened to kill WB.

that's not a great comp
a bigger comp is akainu threatening to kill everyone after he finishes whitebeard , wb would be concerned
or crocodile threatening to kill everyone after he fights luffy , or enel in skypeai
or kaido right now
big arc boss that's taking luffy 110% to defeat

 

[XXGenesis]

One of the biggest trolls on this forum asking a mod to ban convos is really in very bad taste.
It's a wonder HP (even tho he sure was annoying) got banned and YOU are still here kickin

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 14, 2021 ---

I never they they weren't close, but please, go ahead and reply to posts without reading them.
Luffy got FS, aCoA, aCoC.
Zoro doesn't even have confirmed CoC yet. That's a fact from the fucking manga. So yeah, Luffy is ahead
Why anyone even would contest that is beyond me.

Lol true.

relax no need to curse lol.
You aren’t reading. You falling into the Zoro hate trap. You can’t be reading my post because I never once ever said Zoro can defeat Luffy. Never on this forum yet, the leaders of the Zoro hate train attack me like I have.

Zoro will be portrayed to be on Luffy lv. Which makes him look Way above Sanji’s lv. Until we finally get the main matchups; Where Luffy is above them both. Sanji appears much closer to Zoro, when he mid diffs the #3 and Zoro high diffs #2.

Zoro has aAoA through Enma. & has a lower form of aCoC that he demonstrated against Kaido. It’s 95% proven already; Zoro use ACoC he goes down, Luffy jumps in & explains it all and use aCoC…FS isn’t all be all..Either way Luffy currently is much stronger.

Sanji doesn’t have ACoC, aAoA, FS, still yet his Germa augmentation + luminarian dna boost Sanji to give someone like Zoro a good fights …
Kidd & Law don’t have advanced Haki either ;But their are ways to close the gap. DF abilities/awakening…Germa Science….Magic High grade swords

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

The thing with luffy and Zoro
Is faster attack speed ? I think gear 4 luffy take it
Destructive ability and raw strength might be a tie
Speed is luffy
Durability stamina and endurance might be a tie between luffy and Zoro
But like haki skills luffy is so far ahead of both sanji and Zoro , future sight , advanced armament , advanced conqueror

 

[Pirate Queen]

The thing with luffy and Zoro
Is faster attack speed ? I think gear 4 luffy take it
Destructive ability and raw strength might be a tie
Speed is luffy
Durability stamina and endurance might be a tie between luffy and Zoro
But like haki skills luffy is so far ahead of both sanji and Zoro , future sight , advanced armament , advanced conqueror

The thing with Luffy is that he is so diverse that he has a hard counter to almost every single fighting style now.

The fact that Luffy is keep up with Kaido in base while not at 100% speaks to this.

Attack: Luffy<Zoro (with anything above G2)
Speed: Luffy<Zoro (with at least G2)
Attack Speed: Zoro>Luffy (Unless Luffy uses Snakeman+FS)
Lethality: Zoro>Luffy (Unless Luffy uses Internal Destruction Haki)
Endurance: Zoro=Luffy (Zoro shows extreme fatigue when using Enma unrestrained)
Durability: Luffy > Zoro
CoA: Luffy>>Zoro
CoO:Luffy>>>Zoro
CoC:Luffy>>>Zoro
Will Power: Zoro=Luffy

 

[Luke Beifong]

I really don't understand the debat about the trio strength...

It's obviously Luffy > Zoro > Sanji.

Not for their rough skill, I think their are almost in par, but one got a Devil Fruit, the other three sword... While the last only fight with his feet...
Obviously Sanji got a big handicap, just by his fighting style...

If Queen was against Zoro, with all the opening he let to Sanji, he would have finish in dinosaure steak since long time.
But Sanji fighting style is not lethal, for that reason he struggle against strong and endurant opponent.

The real question is more, if Sanji was a logia or a mythic Zoan, how much will he be stronger ? He would have eat the mera mera no mi, Doflamingo would not have the same smile during their confrontation
But I prefer Sanji as a role of strategist and smart fighter, and leave the big brawling to Zoro and Luffy.

I totally agree with you.

In my opinion, the the difference between Zoro and Sanji is that Zoro fighting style is way deadlier than Sanji fighting style. Hell, it’s even deadlier than Luffy’s. What is the best way to hurt someone? Throw a punch, a kick or a slice with a sword? It’s obviously that Zoro seams to be waaaaaaaaay stronger than Sanji and there’s a lot of people that think he is as strong as Luffy.

We know for sure that Luffy is stronger than Zoro, he have all forms of advanced Haki. But when we compare him with Sanji, a character that Oda developed in a pretty bad way after the TS, the Zoro fans will just sit in the faces of the Sanji fans and dance (that’s a expression here in Brazil, hope you guys understand what I’m trying to say).

If we make a shift, I totally see Sanji winning against all Zoro opponents (even Mr.1, isn’t said that Zeff can leave his footsteps in steel? Sanji can have a flashback saying that Zeff taught him how to do the same thing, again, like we say here in Brazil, the wind that blows here, blows anywhere. If Zoro can have a flashback and unlock a new power, Sanji can have it to and it’s all right) and I see Zoro winning against all Sanji opponents (people can say that Zoro can win against all Sanji opponents way easier than Sanji, but again, Zoro fights with swords, he can give pretty worst wounds in his opponents). The only exception is Pica, but Pica’s power can only be handled by a advanced armament Haki user or a swordsman that’s know how to make flying slashs. And i still think that if Sanji fight against King and Zoro against Queen, everything could be better, history wise. See, Sanji discover that he have Lunarian blood fighting against a Lunarian, in a sky battle, both using his flame powers, using his black suits, a prince against a King. And Zoro can fight Queen, with all his endurance and science, making him use all his Haki to finish the fight as sooner as possible. I’m not saying that Queen’s have more endurance than Kaido, only that Zoro needs more than just one explosive attack to finish his fight.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 14, 2021 ---

And I’m just a One Piece fan. I’m not Sanji’s fan ou a Zoro hater, I don’t have a favorite character in OP. I like the history as a whole.

 

[LaGOAT]

I think what @LadyVados is Saying is if a person who Didn’t have a DF at a young age like zoro had a DF he would be Way stronger than some1 like luffy if he didn’t Have a DF. But the problem with this logic is ur looking at current zoro with a DF vs current luffy without a DF that a flaw logic cause if luffy didn’t have DF as a child how do u know he would have learn his Grandpa garp who is strong without DF? Maybe that version of luffy would have probably be like his grandpa garp

 

[Pirate Queen]

I think what @LadyVados is Saying is if a person who Didn’t have a DF at they young age like zoro had a DF he would be Way stronger than some1 like luffy if he didn’t Have a DF. But ur the problem with this logic is ur looking at current zoro with a DF vs current luffy without a DF that a flaw logic cause if luffy didn’t have DF as a child how do u know he would have learn his Grandpa garp who is strong without DF? Maybe that version of luffy would have probably be like his grandpa garp

Hey, I wasn't sure if you were addressing me or not so I thought I would check before responding lol

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

The thing with Luffy is that he is so diverse that he has a hard counter to almost every single fighting style now.

The fact that Luffy is keep up with Kaido in base while not at 100% speaks to this.

Attack: Luffy<Zoro (with anything above G2)
Speed: Luffy<Zoro (with at least G2)
Attack Speed: Zoro>Luffy (Unless Luffy uses Snakeman+FS)
Lethality: Zoro>Luffy (Unless Luffy uses Internal Destruction Haki)
Endurance: Zoro=Luffy (Zoro shows extreme fatigue when using Enma unrestrained)
Durability: Luffy > Zoro
CoA: Luffy>>Zoro
CoO:Luffy>>>Zoro
CoC:Luffy>>>Zoro
Will Power: Zoro=Luffy

Even without snakeman , gear 4 hits extremely hard and fast just boundman is probably already faster than what Zoro does

 

[Pirate Queen]

Even without snakeman , gear 4 hits extremely hard and fast just boundman is probably already faster than what Zoro does

Cracker was slicing through G4 and Zoro Is stronger than Cracker. Cracker didn't seem to have a problem with G4's Bound Man speed.

Current Zoro's stats are greater than Crackers across the board

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Cracker was slicing through G4 and Zoro Is stronger than Cracker. Cracker didn't seem to have a problem with G4's Bound Man speed.

Current Zoro's stats are greater than Crackers across the board

And current luffy is way way faster and stronger than luffy who fought cracker
Again using that luffy to gauge this luffy strength is not if any use that was legit 200 chapters again

 

[LadyVados]

but he would be just as strong with a different fighting style not centered around his DF.

This is what I don't get, it's absolutely ridiculous, if this were the case no one would ever eat a devil fruit. Why give away the ability to swim if you could become just as strong by simply training in a different fighting style.

Are you saying WB or Shiki or Sengoku didn't train hard to become strong because they had a DF ? That's ridiculous, they obviously trained their melee abilities and Haki as hard as they could. If 2 characters are on a similar level and one has a df and the other doesn't that means the one without obviously has more natural talent and ability than the other. If you feed Garp a zoan do you think he won't utterly destroy Whitebeard ?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 14, 2021 ---

I get what you're saying, but it's not quite the same scenario.

Sanji and Zoro are getting a new mode, or a boost to their base/stats. They just got new abilities.

For Sanji's case, Jabra tanked a few attacks from diable jump. In the end, they were about to land the final blows, where they both charged their attacks. In which case, Sanji landed his attack through strategy and finished off Jabra.
He can't sit around and charge his attack right off the bat, and expect Jabra not to interrupt his charge or dodge his charged attack. His normal diable jumps are very much tankable for Jabra

For Zoro's case. Kaku isn't going to sit and allow Zoro to charge. The reason Zoro was able to do it was because Kaku himself was charging up his final attack, giving Zoro time to charge the attack himself.
The logic you're using can be used to say Zoro one shots most opponents he has face by instantly using Asura, which obviously isn't the case. Why isn't he using Asura against King right off the bat? Of course because King won't sit around and give Zoro time to charge up his attack.

Call it strategy or whatever, fact is Sanji low-diffed Jabra.

They are not tankable, the first kick broke most of his ribs and badly burnt him and the second one KOed him.

If Sanji used DJ from the start the battle would have ended in seconds.

Asura has no significant charge time.

And maybe you can make an argument for the EL fights but you can't for Mr. 1, post that fight Zoro is definitely low-diffing Mr.1, if not neg-diffing.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021 ---

And current luffy is way way faster and stronger than luffy who fought cracker

I don't think his raw durability has improved much. Obviously he has future sight. and his attack and blocking power has improved because of CoC coating, advanced Haki didn't seem to help at all against Kaido, and it's not like he was lacking in attack power against non-top tiers.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021 ---

Lol at Marco being well above King, they're definitely equals.

 

[Pirate Queen]

And current luffy is way way faster and stronger than luffy who fought cracker
Again using that luffy to gauge this luffy strength is not if any use that was legit 200 chapters again

I never considered G4 Boundman's speed to get faster. Which is why I figured he needed to develop Snakeman. You may be right.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

This is what I don't get, it's absolutely ridiculous, if this were the case no one would ever eat a devil fruit. Why give away the ability to swim if you could become just as strong by simply training in a different fighting style.

Are you saying WB or Shiki or Sengoku didn't train hard to become strong because they had a DF ? That's ridiculous, they obviously trained their melee abilities and Haki as hard as they could. If 2 characters are on a similar level and one has a df and the other doesn't that means the one without obviously has more natural talent and ability than the other. If you feed Garp a zoan do you think he won't utterly destroy Whitebeard ?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 14, 2021 ---

Call it strategy or whatever, fact is Sanji low-diffed Jabra.

They are not tankable, the first kick broke most of his ribs and badly burnt him and the second one KOed him.

If Sanji used DJ from the start the battle would have ended in seconds.

Asura has no significant charge time.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021 ---

I don't think his raw durability has improved much. Obviously he has future sight. and his attack and blocking power has improved because of CoC coating, advanced Haki didn't seem to help at all against Kaido, and it's not like he was lacking in attack power against non-top tiers.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021 ---

Lol at Marco being well above King, they're definitely equals.

That’s kinda glossing over Marco restraining them both after they were both in full zoan forms
Marco at least doing okay against big mum
Staying at par with both king and queen when his stamina was high ( he drained alot of it healing the Allie’s and fighting big mum briefly )
Marco so far is the only current yonkou commander who can competently fight an admiral or a yonkou/yonkou contender ( according to the gorosei ) on panel

YC1+ : Yamato Marco

king



Like I said alot of the king hype is funny
From suddenly not being worthy of fighting Zoro to being maybe the top YC1 ok man

 

[LadyVados]

That’s kinda glossing over Marco restraining them both after they were both in full zoan forms
Marco at least doing okay against big mum
Staying at par with both king and queen when his stamina was high ( he drained alot of it healing the Allie’s and fighting big mum briefly )
Marco so far is the only current yonkou commander who can competently fight an admiral or a yonkou/yonkou contender ( according to the gorosei ) on panel

YC1+ : Yamato Marco

king



Like I said alot of the king hype is funny
From suddenly not being worthy of fighting Zoro to being maybe the top YC1 ok man

As I said before, it's because he fought Zoro, who can scar Kaido, block Hakai, make Kaido dodge, etc.

If in Elbaf Luffy loses to some random giant, we'll say that random giant is Yonko level won't we ? The straw hats are now strong enough to be used to scale other people.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Like I said alot of the king hype is funny
From suddenly not being worthy of fighting Zoro to being maybe the top YC1 ok man

The way king and queen are looking I wouldn't call them strong...

Marco alone is destroying King and Queen at the same time. And even Queen has a much higher bounty than Katakuri. Heck Jack has a similiar bounty to Katakuri.
diffed.

This was him not long ago lol

 

[LadyVados]

This was him not long ago lol

Obviously I was proven wrong.

I thought Marco would wreck King and Queen 2v1, as it turned out, he was the one who got wrecked. My fault for overhyping him.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 14, 2021 ---

Luffy making Kaido bleed in both dragon AND hybrid form. God your annoying, it's like you don't even read the manga

The dragon form stuff is spit.

I'm pretty sure the hybrid form one is spit too, mixed in with the blood left in his mouth from Asura.

Either way, nothing that even comes close to scarring Kaido...

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021 ---

kaido is ridiculously durable in his regular human form even

Which was why Kiku couldn't skewer his hand...

oh wait...