Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:
Shanks v Mihawk
Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
Zoro > Luffy
Zoro v Sanji
Is Smoker a top 30 character?
Mihawk's rank within the story
Law having CoC currently.
Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.
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I don’t see any problem with zoro having ACOC and I’m not being biased as a zoro fanboy it’s obvious he was gonna get it eventually. Zoro>kid imo law probably in the same lvl law df id very unique and kind op. Lol at ppl putting killer>jinbei the disrespect jinbei is crazy
I think you need to re read the jinbei versus who’s who fight, he was never losing he had minor injuries but so did who’s who and he was never on the back foot , the advantage he had was the numbers of his subordinates
I think common sense told law he had to get hell la stronger so his training was off screen , I think law jump was massive but it was expected
I expect big power jumps in one piece in general the issue I have with the zoro aCOC was how hallowed and built up it was , luffy had an incredible journey to mastering it and then suddenly without even mastering basic COC Zoro has advanced COC ?
I usually Power Scale with the Yonkou at the top & use manga feats to compare the rest of the characters to each other and the Yonkou…
I won’t use tiers,but here’s a list in order
Luffy is fighting Kaido Solo now, before he shown the prowess to fight & endure Kaido’s attack the best aside from Yamato.
Yamato has to be 2nd strongest as she fought Hybrid Kaido solo, for quite some time. Yes Yamato is familiar with Kaido’s fighting style & Kaido isn’t trying to kill her but is fighting seriously. Still Yamato had the skill & ability to stall Kaido by herself.
Marco/Law/Kidd All come in 3rd place. Law/Kidd are tag teaming a Yonkou & finally injured BM with their awakenings, after enduring a beat down. Marco shown he can challenge Admirals, Fought & survived a war with BB & his Crew, BM couldn’t be bothered with the time it would take to fight him, he kept 2commanders, King & Queen busy on the 1st floor until Zoro & Sanji pops up, he wasn’t even hurt just exhausted.
Zoro is technically right there with Law/Kidd & Marco…As to why tiers works better than just ranking…But Zoro just defeated King . Someone who can tank even ACoC Attacks because of their race. Zoro just got a power up & he already shown the Attack potency to hurt a Yonkou & the durability/stamina to endure more than what he can handle..So he’s YC1+ just like the rest of them
Sanji just embarrassed Queen from an skill perspective; Queen was tough, Sanji does pass out afterwards. However Queen’s fighting prowess & skills leaves a lot to be desired. With Sanji’s new abilities & improved skills. He’s almost YC1 lv IMO.
Inu/Neko/Jimbei…Again I can’t rank these characters over each other; They are relatively even. Inu dominates Jack in Sulong form; Neko also fought Jack in base to a stalemate but had trouble with Perspero while battle worn & *offscreen* but Perospero’s is strong with his DF*…..Jimbei has blocked Akainu’s magma with his hands; Blocked an attack from Starving BM, knocked BM off the Sunny, Judo flipped BM, Endure Who’s Who’s attack to basically low Diff him. Jimbei would mid-high Jack with his FIshMan Karate & water abilities…
But why is Yamato no2 ?
You even recognize the same points I bring up about Yamato. I'm not sure why people rate her so high when all she has is one fight, against someone whose fighting style she knows and who avoided landing any lethal attacks on her in all likeliness,
Serious Kaido would just low diff her.
I kinda can understand putting her above Zoro, though I would personally disagree (Zoro had attack power to threaten Yonkos with just advanced armament, now he also has advanced conq + better haki output in general).
But, what puts her above characters like Law, Kid and Marco?
Marco can also hold back Yonkos. In fact he did hold back BM for like 3 chapters or something IIRC. BM basically admitted that trying to put him down would simply waste a lot of her time and energy. Plus, all his feats against admirals, King + Queen etc
Law + Kid collectively are Yonko tier, this is confirmed at this point. They have forced BM to go beyond her limits. Each of them can also hold their own against a Yonko solo, in fact Law did it all the while Kid was dead weight.
I think you need to re read the jinbei versus who’s who fight, he was never losing he had minor injuries but so did who’s who and he was never on the back foot , the advantage he had was the numbers of his subordinates
I think common sense told law he had to get hell la stronger so his training was off screen , I think law jump was massive but it was expected
I expect big power jumps in one piece in general the issue I have with the zoro aCOC was how hallowed and built up it was , luffy had an incredible journey to mastering it and then suddenly without even mastering basic COC Zoro has advanced COC ?
Do this - Ignore the last 4 pages all together, and read up until there. Jinbe was obviously in a losing fight
Yea, but it happened just randomly. Cause he had to get stronger.
With Zoro and Sanji, even with all asspulls and handouts, we actually saw them getting strong on screen. Law just randomly reached YC1+ lol
I mean, we have the excuse of Enma training him for it lol. Is it BS? Kinda. Rushed? Definitely.
But then again, this arc is in no shortage of BS at all. The raid has been a massive brain fart. The biggest BS is Luffy hanging out against hybrid Kaido in his base, when even base Kaido can blitz G4 Luffy.
The issue is that Zoro skipped many steps.
Zoro only awakened conqueror's haki like 2 hours ago or something. He went from not even realizing he's a conqueror, to having proper control over basic conqueror's insantly.
I don't have issue with going from basic conq to advanced conq instantly, since it uses similar theory as advanced armament, which Zoro already has. But Zoro shouldn't have control over basic conqueror's to begin with.
Obviously expecting Zoro to have it after like 2 years is too much lmao. But, Zoro should've had advanced conq only by next arc IMO. Saying it as a big Zoro fan (you know I am)
Ehh, I feel like Killer is underestimated a lot. You basically just called him canon fodder lmfao
Killer gave Zoro a decent fight, while not even having his regular weapons. He tanked hits from Yonkos. And basically low diff'd Hawkins as soon as the threat over Kid went away.
Killer is basically Kid's Zoro. Kid is a tier below Luffy, so I expect Killer to be a tier or so below Zoro. Killer is probably YC2 tier
All this advanced conqueror's wank will end in next arc, when we will finally see it being used on characters who can be damaged with "normal" attacks (like admirals, BB crew etc)
Obviously it is a good boost to attack (and defence depending on usage), but IMO people are overrating it a lot.
All this advanced conqueror's wank will end in next arc, when we will finally see it being used on characters who can be damaged with "normal" attacks (like admirals, BB crew etc)
Obviously it is a good boost to attack (and defence depending on usage), but IMO people are overrating it a lot.
I think it's extremely potent. I just think people are ignoring that there are levels to it lol. Just having it doesn't mean you're at the same level as other ACOC users.
Maybe.
Let's see how she performs in coming arcs (assuming she will be the next strawhat)
She was on her limits by the end of the fight, claiming the thunder bagua from Kaido did far more damage than she had anticipated.
And anyway, this one feat alone isn't enough IMO to put her over Law, Kid and Marco. All three of these characters can replicate the feat of holding their own against Yonkos, they have more feats under their belt as well.
Zoro vs Yamato, debatable IMO
I think it's extremely potent. I just think people are ignoring that there are levels to it lol. Just having it doesn't mean you're at the same level as other ACOC users.
On the levels, you're right. Luffy should be way better with it, considering it's kinda his specialty. Plus Zoro had just awakened his conq haki.
Still, I'm very iffy on the potency. It's definitely a great boost, no doubt about it at all. How great? Let's wait for the next arc to find out.
Both characters it was used on in current arc, are kinda immune to everything else:
- Kaido: Can only be damaged by advanced arm/conq and special DFs like Law's. Advanced armament can damage somewhat, but advanced conqueror's is far more effective since it's "deeper".
- King: seemingly immune to everything but advanced conq in defence mode
This is giving us a false view of it's general potency IMO
Imagine if Zoro has ACoC or whatever that stands for, while Sanji just has CoC. Would kind of make sense too, though I don't mind what they both have, or whether or not Sanji has CoC.
So er, it's cool to see Zoro finally push back. I hope it's a tougher fight though, even buulord's link (thank you for that btw) made it look like Sanji still wasn't AS challenged or pushed to the brink like he was against Bon.
Imagine if Zoro has ACoC or whatever that stands for, while Sanji just has CoC. Would kind of make sense too, though I don't mind what they both have, or whether or not Sanji has CoC.
So er, it's cool to see Zoro finally push back. I hope it's a tougher fight though, even buulord's link (thank you for that btw) made it look like Sanji still wasn't AS challenged or pushed to the brink like he was against Bon.
okay I thought I was in the CHapter Discussion, my bad.
Is it possible to become an emperor with a super weak crew (including commanders) even if the emperor is super strong, arguably stronger than other emperors?
Top 10? In my eyes only one person is the strongest. The man who said he could take on all marines and pirates, including an Admiral and several YC tier characters at once, and defeat them. The one and only:
But seriously though? Somebody asks for a top 10, everybody has a differing opinion and then fights about it. Repetitive as hell. Take a break, it's Christmas.
I don’t disagree with Zoro foreshadowing with COC , what doesn’t make sense is he legit skipped mastering even conscious use , it’s like coby jumping straight into future sight at marineford , Oda could have made him an active COC User 2 arcs ago really
But why is Yamato no2 ?
You even recognize the same points I bring up about Yamato. I'm not sure why people rate her so high when all she has is one fight, against someone whose fighting style she knows and who avoided landing any lethal attacks on her in all likeliness,
Serious Kaido would just low diff her.
I kinda can understand putting her above Zoro, though I would personally disagree (Zoro had attack power to threaten Yonkos with just advanced armament, now he also has advanced conq + better haki output in general).
But, what puts her above characters like Law, Kid and Marco?
Marco can also hold back Yonkos. In fact he did hold back BM for like 3 chapters or something IIRC. BM basically admitted that trying to put him down would simply waste a lot of her time and energy. Plus, all his feats against admirals, King + Queen etc
Law + Kid collectively are Yonko tier, this is confirmed at this point. They have forced BM to go beyond her limits. Each of them can also hold their own against a Yonko solo, in fact Law did it all the while Kid was dead weight.
Do this - Ignore the last 4 pages all together, and read up until there. Jinbe was obviously in a losing fight
Yea, but it happened just randomly. Cause he had to get stronger.
With Zoro and Sanji, even with all asspulls and handouts, we actually saw them getting strong on screen. Law just randomly reached YC1+ lol
I mean, we have the excuse of Enma training him for it lol. Is it BS? Kinda. Rushed? Definitely.
But then again, this arc is in no shortage of BS at all. The raid has been a massive brain fart. The biggest BS is Luffy hanging out against hybrid Kaido in his base, when even base Kaido can blitz G4 Luffy.
The issue is that Zoro skipped many steps.
Zoro only awakened conqueror's haki like 2 hours ago or something. He went from not even realizing he's a conqueror, to having proper control over basic conqueror's insantly.
I don't have issue with going from basic conq to advanced conq instantly, since it uses similar theory as advanced armament, which Zoro already has. But Zoro shouldn't have control over basic conqueror's to begin with.
Obviously expecting Zoro to have it after like 2 years is too much lmao. But, Zoro should've had advanced conq only by next arc IMO. Saying it as a big Zoro fan (you know I am)
Ehh, I feel like Killer is underestimated a lot. You basically just called him canon fodder lmfao
Killer gave Zoro a decent fight, while not even having his regular weapons. He tanked hits from Yonkos. And basically low diff'd Hawkins as soon as the threat over Kid went away.
Killer is basically Kid's Zoro. Kid is a tier below Luffy, so I expect Killer to be a tier or so below Zoro. Killer is probably YC2 tier
Kaido was quite serious against Yamato , he’d low diff her if he could , but she’s a medium tier difficulty fight , yeah she has some experience fighting kaido but he’s a straight brawler if you want to fight someone like that you just legit have to have the strength speed and stamina to fight kaido , you have to do he raw stats , kaido is a raw stats dude , there’s nothing tricky to his fighting style
Zolo getting ACoC this quickly is kinda bullshit just like how Law jumped from YC4- to YC1 with no training shown. Zolo should have learned Advanced CoA first, and then ACoC.
Or at least Oda should have given Zolo CoC by the beginning of Wano so we could have seen progress be made in a good timely manner.
The fight was underwhelming towards the end, that I want to knock King down a few among the YC1s. He basically only showed one attack after the mask was off. He was more badass in his Hybrid form.
Anyways,
Yamato is a hard one. I see Yamato right below Luffy and above Zolo, Kid, and Law, but not above Marco. Maybe we havent see enough of her. @grey matter is right, Yamato only lasted that long versus Kaido, because Yamato had fought Kaido various times throughout the years, that she was familiar with Kaido's techniques. Props to her for lasting that long, but I think Marcos is slightly above her for right now.
Law and Kid are below Luffy, Marco, and Yamato, individually. Their awakenings were not that grandiose as I expected. Who keeps mentioning the fight has been lasting for hours? I have yet to see a time clock in the manga. So we have NO certain idea when the raid started, much less how long the fights have taken. For all we know the main battles have taken less than 30 minutes.
Killer being over Jimbei? Nah, dont think so. Stop trying to equalize Luffy and Kid's crews or even Law because they are "rivals". To me that is the stupidest argument, Luffy has far suprassed Law and Kid, Zolo has far surprassed Killer and Bepo.
Killer is YC4 at best, he easily solo'd Hawkins, but tbf Hawkins seems to be rather weak, almost anybody can defeat Hawkins. I would rate Jimbei in the same tier as Cat and Dog base form.
Side note: I find it hilariously stupid how when Oda wants to showcase somebody has CoC, he brings around fodder grunts out of nowhere just to be knocked out by the CoC. What was even more of an asspull, was how the same grunts to came to kill Zolo, got CoC knocked out by Zolo, get up by the next scene just to point out that nobody has seen King w/o the mask, only to be burned by King. Little stupid commentary that Oda puts in the manga. It made no sense to me on why fodder tried to kill Zolo, get CoC KO'd, wake up and then get burned.
But why is Yamato no2 ?
You even recognize the same points I bring up about Yamato. I'm not sure why people rate her so high when all she has is one fight, against someone whose fighting style she knows and who avoided landing any lethal attacks on her in all likeliness,
Serious Kaido would just low diff her.
I kinda can understand putting her above Zoro, though I would personally disagree (Zoro had attack power to threaten Yonkos with just advanced armament, now he also has advanced conq + better haki output in general).
But, what puts her above characters like Law, Kid and Marco?
Marco can also hold back Yonkos. In fact he did hold back BM for like 3 chapters or something IIRC. BM basically admitted that trying to put him down would simply waste a lot of her time and energy. Plus, all his feats against admirals, King + Queen etc
Law + Kid collectively are Yonko tier, this is confirmed at this point. They have forced BM to go beyond her limits. Each of them can also hold their own against a Yonko solo, in fact Law did it all the while Kid was dead weight.
Do this - Ignore the last 4 pages all together, and read up until there. Jinbe was obviously in a losing fight
Yea, but it happened just randomly. Cause he had to get stronger.
With Zoro and Sanji, even with all asspulls and handouts, we actually saw them getting strong on screen. Law just randomly reached YC1+ lol
I mean, we have the excuse of Enma training him for it lol. Is it BS? Kinda. Rushed? Definitely.
But then again, this arc is in no shortage of BS at all. The raid has been a massive brain fart. The biggest BS is Luffy hanging out against hybrid Kaido in his base, when even base Kaido can blitz G4 Luffy.
The issue is that Zoro skipped many steps.
Zoro only awakened conqueror's haki like 2 hours ago or something. He went from not even realizing he's a conqueror, to having proper control over basic conqueror's insantly.
I don't have issue with going from basic conq to advanced conq instantly, since it uses similar theory as advanced armament, which Zoro already has. But Zoro shouldn't have control over basic conqueror's to begin with.
Obviously expecting Zoro to have it after like 2 years is too much lmao. But, Zoro should've had advanced conq only by next arc IMO. Saying it as a big Zoro fan (you know I am)
Ehh, I feel like Killer is underestimated a lot. You basically just called him canon fodder lmfao
Killer gave Zoro a decent fight, while not even having his regular weapons. He tanked hits from Yonkos. And basically low diff'd Hawkins as soon as the threat over Kid went away.
Killer is basically Kid's Zoro. Kid is a tier below Luffy, so I expect Killer to be a tier or so below Zoro. Killer is probably YC2 tier
Maybe.
Let's see how she performs in coming arcs (assuming she will be the next strawhat)
She was on her limits by the end of the fight, claiming the thunder bagua from Kaido did far more damage than she had anticipated.
And anyway, this one feat alone isn't enough IMO to put her over Law, Kid and Marco. All three of these characters can replicate the feat of holding their own against Yonkos, they have more feats under their belt as well.
Zoro vs Yamato, debatable IMO
On the levels, you're right. Luffy should be way better with it, considering it's kinda his specialty. Plus Zoro had just awakened his conq haki.
Still, I'm very iffy on the potency. It's definitely a great boost, no doubt about it at all. How great? Let's wait for the next arc to find out.
Both characters it was used on in current arc, are kinda immune to everything else:
- Kaido: Can only be damaged by advanced arm/conq and special DFs like Law's. Advanced armament can damage somewhat, but advanced conqueror's is far more effective since it's "deeper".
- King: seemingly immune to everything but advanced conq in defence mode
This is giving us a false view of it's general potency IMO
We've already seen Kaido fight her, and it looked by no means that he'd low-dif her. I don't care if Kaido wasn't going to kill her; you can be serious and not bloodlusted. And I saw you and some other people use the 'she knows how Kaido fights' excuse, like Kaido is a complicated fighter, and that would give Yamato a big boost. There's also one thing that point ignores; if Yamato knows how Kaido fights, in this case, the reverse is the same. Kaido also knows how Yamato fights.
Her squaring off with Kaido one on one is definitely better than anything Marco has done. For the longest Marco's biggest feats were squaring off with Admirals evenly. Yamato's feats have her square off with an even stronger character and actually damage him and have a back and forth. As for Law and Kidd, I'd probably swap them with Yamato IF they actually beat Big Mam.
Advanced COC's potency is crazy. We've seen how it went in the Oden flashback during Roger vs Whitebeard. And even outside of that, it's the only move that has dropped a dragon type zoan in one hit. Page One was shrugging off hits from Raid Suit Sanji and post Udon Luffy yet got one shot by Big Mam with ACOC. It's potency is crazy, when mastered.
Well ignoring his performance against Kaido on the rooftop, as the damage he would've inflicted was ambiguous compared to for eg. Luffy and Zoro, he did damage BM through her iron balloon skin. She even commented that she hadn't taken as much damage as this (Law and his awakened attacks) in decades so he has feats to back up his ranking. The fact that his girders pierced BM through her defenses speaks for his AP I would say.
I would say my list is:
1) Luffy
2) Kid/Law/Yamato/Marco
3) Whoever else
Didn't Kidd prove he's good by his performance against Big Mom? But of course, I'm going by my very very bad memory of the fight, but I remember him and Law doing well enough against her.
I was gonna say better than Luffy and Sanji, but two different situations, so it's dumb to compare.
Why is Yamato rated so high? Even over the SN captains & Zoro…..Because she fought Kaido 1 vs 1 & is still an active member in the raid.
Because everybody else got owned ASAP against Kaido. Or Isn’t fighting against a Yonko by themselves. When Yamato fought Kaido 1 vs 1, clashed multiple times with him.
Kaido literally beat the crap out of Yamato towards the end of their fight and she was still kicking, & landed her attack because Luffy returned, & she still defended Momonuske when they retreated….She’s stronger than Zoro by a lil bit
He and Law collectively are Yonko tier - this is a fact.
If they weren't, BM wouldn't have been forced over her limits. BM felt that, if she didn't go over her limits, she might end up losing. Plus her comment that these two are serious about usurping her thrown, and nobody had pushed her that far in years
If you want a more specific feat, Kid's attack dealt good damage on BM
Why is Yamato rated so high? Even over the SN captains & Zoro…..Because she fought Kaido 1 vs 1 & is still an active member in the raid.
Because everybody else got owned ASAP against Kaido. Or Isn’t fighting against a Yonko by themselves. When Yamato fought Kaido 1 vs 1, clashed multiple times with him.
Kaido literally beat the crap out of Yamato towards the end of their fight and she was still kicking, & landed her attack because Luffy returned, & she still defended Momonuske when they retreated….She’s stronger than Zoro by a lil bit
This is something that can be and has been replicated by Law, Kid and Marco.
Law fought BM solo while even making up for dead weight Kid, during Killer vs Hawkins. Plus, collectively making a Yonko go over her limits.
Marco fought BM for a few chapters IIRC, while she commented that she would just end up wasting her time and energy on him. After holding her back, he 1v2'd King + Queen for hours while spending energy on healing up thousands of soldiers. And he's still up and running.
No problem if you think she's stronger than Zoro, I can understand where you're coming from there
We've already seen Kaido fight her, and it looked by no means that he'd low-dif her. I don't care if Kaido wasn't going to kill her; you can be serious and not bloodlusted. And I saw you and some other people use the 'she knows how Kaido fights' excuse, like Kaido is a complicated fighter, and that would give Yamato a big boost. There's also one thing that point ignores; if Yamato knows how Kaido fights, in this case, the reverse is the same. Kaido also knows how Yamato fights.
Her squaring off with Kaido one on one is definitely better than anything Marco has done. For the longest Marco's biggest feats were squaring off with Admirals evenly. Yamato's feats have her square off with an even stronger character and actually damage him and have a back and forth. As for Law and Kidd, I'd probably swap them with Yamato IF they actually beat Big Mam.
Advanced COC's potency is crazy. We've seen how it went in the Oden flashback during Roger vs Whitebeard. And even outside of that, it's the only move that has dropped a dragon type zoan in one hit. Page One was shrugging off hits from Raid Suit Sanji and post Udon Luffy yet got one shot by Big Mam with ACOC. It's potency is crazy, when mastered.
bingo kaido is a straight brawler, knowing how he fight doesn't mean much , he's not tricky, you have the raw strength speed and durability to keep up, yamato does
