One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Enel is a scrub by modern one piece strength standards. Luffy could prolly knock him out with conquers Haki. Enel at best would defeat chopper or Nami in a extreme diff bout.

Thats just wow.

 

[XXGenesis]

Being a Logia Pre-TS use to put you on a certain lv…It doesn’t mean much anymore with Haki’s introduction. Aside from powerful logia abilities, H2H combat prowess & some Haki is needed to be actually strong…I.e Caribou sucks ass, very weak combat wise.

 

[grey matter]

Enel is a scrub by modern one piece strength standards. Luffy could prolly knock him out with conquers Haki. Enel at best would defeat chopper or Nami in a extreme diff bout.

Enel one shots both of them.
He casually one shotted Zoro in Skypia, and Zoro has always had great durability.

Enel stomps every Strawhat except monster trio + Jinbe

Being a Logia Pre-TS use to put you on a certain lv…It doesn’t mean much anymore with Haki’s introduction. Aside from powerful logia abilities, H2H combat prowess & some Haki is needed to be actually strong…I.e Caribou sucks ass, very weak combat wise.

Enel was pretty good in combat as well, aside from DF usage.

Luffy completely bypassed his logia body, and was immune to his element. Inspite of this, he was actually better in combat than Luffy, until Luffy started pulling out random attacks that ricochet.
And he still defeated Luffy in round 1

His attack power and destructive feats are comparable to admirals and Yonkos.
He could use long range attacks to destroy islands without breaking a sweat, and his strongest attack was hyped to be country level.

This isn't like some Caribou.
His DF mastery is comparable to admirals. It's just that his CQC and durability sucks relative to current top tiers.

Dude, you basically repeated everything you said in the same post. You mentioned his "amazing" CoO like 5 times.

Yes he would have a 500 million bounty, which we can see is nothing to the Yonko Commanders. 500m is crazy for GL paradise and somewhat on the high average for NW veterans.
Enel would be terrifying in Paradise, but in the New World, veterans would crush him like they did Swamp guy.

Enough about potential, that is seriously annoying in a power level discussion. Dont tell me how strong they WOULD be, tell me how strong they are or were. Its fine to bring it up as a talking point but as a defense for argument to back up a point you are making, no. I am not talking about anyone specific here in this thread, so do not take it personal.

Btw, I dont think Crocodile is YC3 level, im talking about MF War Crocodile, I dont think he is that strong.

Lastly, the Beasts Pirates underperformed all the way to King and Queen. I think the best fight was WW vs Jimbei, but even then I was expecting more from WW.
Franky vs Sasaki was more of a comedy fight, especially with the helicopter thing.
BM vs Robin, was actually a good lengthy fight for Robin.

Someone in another thread mentioned, how the CP0 may be Zoans since it seems CP has an animal theme atleast CP9. I would not mind at all, I want to see more actual Zoans, whether regular, ancient, or mythical, but of course AWAKENED since the Beasts Pirates disappointed in that department.
Kinda disappointing how quickly CP0 handled Drake, like I was hoping to see them in action to rate their battle strength.
I mean yeah, we kinda can guess how strong they are with how quickly they defeated a Number (no surprised there) and Drake (big surprise)
Drake being veteran VA level IMO, then we can say they are YC level maybe YC2.
Also, somebody also mentioned how current Lucci is YC1. Honestly I dont think so, that is a big jump for him. I know why people want to see him that strong so he could fight Luffy, but to me that is too much.

Yea, in 4 separate posts addressed to different people. What's your problem with it?
Cause it is actually true. He has the best basic observation haki till date, in the series.

He would've had 500 million back when it actually meant a lot. Oda most likely himself didn't know how much he would inflate the bounties later on.
Ace had only 550 million inspite of his infamy as Roger's son (which the govt knew) and being 2nd commander of WB pirates. IK you downplay Ace a lot, but even you can't argue that he was worth only 550 million.

Crocodile is strong enough to give a third commander a good enough fight. Not saying he would actually win against some.
He had amazing portrayal in Marineford, almost as if Oda was making sure he repaired the mistake of introducing him too early and shitting on him by having him lose to pre gears Luffy.

Regarding CP0, they are being built up well.
The CP0 dude pretty much low-mid diff'd Drake, and Drake is pretty strong (strongest Tobiroppo before defection IMO). Drake not being 100% at beginning of fight should've definitely played a role. But still, he got folded fast, which is pretty impressive
In this case, I can definitely see Lucci being built up to be very strong. He probably stagnated after getting into CP9 due to how absurdly strong he was relative to everyone else, his L against Luffy might have lit a fire. Plus, no way Oda brings up Lucci only for him to be someone who gets fodderized by Luffy. Still, current Luffy is too strong for Lucci to give him a serious challenge. Maybe I can see him fight Zoro sometime later on. Or, he can even fight Luffy by the end of this arc and chalk it upto Luffy being tired after fighting Kaido

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Enel is a scrub by modern one piece strength standards. Luffy could prolly knock him out with conquers Haki. Enel at best would defeat chopper or Nami in a extreme diff bout.

 

[Rmstorm]

Enel one shots both of them.
He casually one shotted Zoro in Skypia, and Zoro has always had great durability.

Enel stomps every Strawhat except monster trio + Jinbe



Enel was pretty good in combat as well, aside from DF usage.

Luffy completely bypassed his logia body, and was immune to his element. Inspite of this, he was actually better in combat than Luffy, until Luffy started pulling out random attacks that ricochet.
And he still defeated Luffy in round 1

His attack power and destructive feats are comparable to admirals and Yonkos.
He could use long range attacks to destroy islands without breaking a sweat, and his strongest attack was hyped to be country level.

This isn't like some Caribou.
His DF mastery is comparable to admirals. It's just that his CQC and durability sucks relative to current top tiers.




Yea, in 4 separate posts addressed to different people. What's your problem with it?
Cause it is actually true. He has the best basic observation haki till date, in the series.

He would've had 500 million back when it actually meant a lot. Oda most likely himself didn't know how much he would inflate the bounties later on.
Ace had only 550 million inspite of his infamy as Roger's son (which the govt knew) and being 2nd commander of WB pirates. IK you downplay Ace a lot, but even you can't argue that he was worth only 550 million.

Crocodile is strong enough to give a third commander a good enough fight. Not saying he would actually win against some.
He had amazing portrayal in Marineford, almost as if Oda was making sure he repaired the mistake of introducing him too early and shitting on him by having him lose to pre gears Luffy.

Regarding CP0, they are being built up well.
The CP0 dude pretty much low-mid diff'd Drake, and Drake is pretty strong (strongest Tobiroppo before defection IMO). Drake not being 100% at beginning of fight should've definitely played a role. But still, he got folded fast, which is pretty impressive
In this case, I can definitely see Lucci being built up to be very strong. He probably stagnated after getting into CP9 due to how absurdly strong he was relative to everyone else, his L against Luffy might have lit a fire. Plus, no way Oda brings up Lucci only for him to be someone who gets fodderized by Luffy. Still, current Luffy is too strong for Lucci to give him a serious challenge. Maybe I can see him fight Zoro sometime later on. Or, he can even fight Luffy by the end of this arc and chalk it upto Luffy being tired after fighting Kaido

Enel's used the Arc Magnum.to destroy the island so it was not all him.

 

[albertwv]

@grey matter, having to repeat the same thing over and over is useless. You made your point once, don't have to repeat it in the same post even if you're replying to different users.
Whether he has the best basic CoO means nothing in New World standards. Props for him i guess.
Is he worth the 500m bounty, yes I do think so, but that is only due to his destructive DF. Take away his DF and his combat skill prowess lacks. Take away Smoker's, Akainu/Kizaru/Aokiji, BB, other logias DF, they would still be a formidable force in their own right. Enel not so much. Zolo during Skypiea could have defeated Enel, shit even Sanji I bet. It would be hard diff due to Enel's CoO, but they would get around it.

Oda hyped up Enel's bounty due to his DF and the fact that he ruled Skypiea. Enel would be scrub in the NW.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Being a Logia Pre-TS use to put you on a certain lv…It doesn’t mean much anymore with Haki’s introduction. Aside from powerful logia abilities, H2H combat prowess & some Haki is needed to be actually strong…I.e Caribou sucks ass, very weak combat wise.

@grey matter, having to repeat the same thing over and over is useless. You made your point once, don't have to repeat it in the same post even if you're replying to different users.
Whether he has the best basic CoO means nothing in New World standards. Props for him i guess.
Is he worth the 500m bounty, yes I do think so, but that is only due to his destructive DF. Take away his DF and his combat skill prowess lacks. Take away Smoker's, Akainu/Kizaru/Aokiji, BB, other logias DF, they would still be a formidable force in their own right. Enel not so much. Zolo during Skypiea could have defeated Enel, shit even Sanji I bet. It would be hard diff due to Enel's CoO, but they would get around it.

Oda hyped up Enel's bounty due to his DF and the fact that he ruled Skypiea. Enel would be scrub in the NW.

Enel isn’t a scrub by new world standards
He’s an above average fighter and actually physically pretty strong
His COO and fruit mastery is top tier , he’s not caribou type I dunno why people keep comparing him
I need him return cause he’s gonna get a crocodile type buff , enel isn’t a scrub in the slightest

 

[Crimson Ice]

Enel isn’t a scrub by new world standards
He’s an above average fighter and actually physically pretty strong
His COO and fruit mastery is top tier , he’s not caribou type I dunno why people keep comparing him
I need him return cause he’s gonna get a crocodile type buff , enel isn’t a scrub in the slightest

An above-average fighter who's physically strong that lost to pre gears Luffy? Let's not lie, let's not do that. He's Caribou plus.

 

[grey matter]

@grey matter, having to repeat the same thing over and over is useless. You made your point once, don't have to repeat it in the same post even if you're replying to different users.
Whether he has the best basic CoO means nothing in New World standards. Props for him i guess.
Is he worth the 500m bounty, yes I do think so, but that is only due to his destructive DF. Take away his DF and his combat skill prowess lacks. Take away Smoker's, Akainu/Kizaru/Aokiji, BB, other logias DF, they would still be a formidable force in their own right. Enel not so much. Zolo during Skypiea could have defeated Enel, shit even Sanji I bet. It would be hard diff due to Enel's CoO, but they would get around it.

Oda hyped up Enel's bounty due to his DF and the fact that he ruled Skypiea. Enel would be scrub in the NW.

Nah, not everyone reads the entire thing. Likewise, I don't expect people to read everything I've written (they can if they want, but its not a given). I just expect them read my post addressing them alone. If you have a problem with that, it on you I guess lol

Yea, of course having the best basic observation haki means a lot in new world. Considering only like 2 guys in the entire series have confirmed advanced observation haki.

Not many people have the same mastery he had with his DF. The things he did with his DF was crazy. Give it to 99.99% of the verse, and they aren't doing anything close to what he did with his DF
Enel was flexing so hard on Zoro using his combat skills alone, kinda like making a point about how he's superior in every way. He showed his superiority in CQC and strength, before one shotting him with lightning. You saw him stomping Zoro to the ground after one shotting him? The entire ground shook at that physical power. He also overwhelmed Luffy in physical combat, until Luffy started using random attacks that ricochet. Even then, he won the first round of fight.
Like I said, people underestimate Enel the fighter and innovator, and attribute pretty much everything to his fruit.
As a pure fighter, Enel was at least better than pre Asura Zoro. Nothing to scoff at.

Why are we taking away his DF to begin with? Take away Luffy's DF -> Zoro and arguably Sanji were stronger than him until advanced conqueror's. DF is the difference between BB being Yonko commander tier, vs Yonko tier.
Sure, there are some monsters like WB and Kaido, for whom their fruit is a side business than main force. But for vast majority of the fruit users, their fruit forms the crux of their battle style and power level.


How do you know what criteria Oda used to determine his bounty? Skypiea has nothing to do wit this, considering this was a "what if" scenario where Enel was a pirate instead of ruler of Skypiea.
I'll just take it as his bounty representing his PL for the most part, as it always does. PL plays the biggest role in determining bounty, and then other threat levels (such as violence, status etc). There are exceptions like Robin and Ussop to this, but usually this is the pattern.
Of course his DF comes into picture here for his bounty. So what? DF is a big factor in his powerlevel, like how it is for vast majority of the fruit users.


Enel would be scrub in new world based on what? His attack power and destructive feats are Yonko/admiral tier.
He has insane speed and can fly. He can instantly just fly high up into the air and spam nukes. Has observation haki ranging tens of kms, allowing to him know whenever anyone or any attack approaches him.
There are very few characters in the new world who can take him on.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Enel is a scrub by modern one piece strength standards. Luffy could prolly knock him out with conquers Haki. Enel at best would defeat chopper or Nami in a extreme diff bout.

Hell of a first post, and before I tear into- welcome to the club and all that jazz.

That said... Enel has problems with being a glass cannon, but that bolded bit is one of the single dumbest things I've read in my 15 years here. Good lord.

 

[albertwv]

Nah, not everyone reads the entire thing. Likewise, I don't expect people to read everything I've written (they can if they want, but its not a given). I just expect them read my post addressing them alone. If you have a problem with that, it on you I guess lol

Yea, of course having the best basic observation haki means a lot in new world. Considering only like 2 guys in the entire series have confirmed advanced observation haki.

Not many people have the same mastery he had with his DF. The things he did with his DF was crazy. Give it to 99.99% of the verse, and they aren't doing anything close to what he did with his DF
Enel was flexing so hard on Zoro using his combat skills alone, kinda like making a point about how he's superior in every way. He showed his superiority in CQC and strength, before one shotting him with lightning. You saw him stomping Zoro to the ground after one shotting him? The entire ground shook at that physical power. He also overwhelmed Luffy in physical combat, until Luffy started using random attacks that ricochet. Even then, he won the first round of fight.
Like I said, people underestimate Enel the fighter and innovator, and attribute pretty much everything to his fruit.
As a pure fighter, Enel was at least better than pre Asura Zoro. Nothing to scoff at.

Why are we taking away his DF to begin with? Take away Luffy's DF -> Zoro and arguably Sanji were stronger than him until advanced conqueror's. DF is the difference between BB being Yonko commander tier, vs Yonko tier.
Sure, there are some monsters like WB and Kaido, for whom their fruit is a side business than main force. But for vast majority of the fruit users, their fruit forms the crux of their battle style and power level.


How do you know what criteria Oda used to determine his bounty? Skypiea has nothing to do wit this, considering this was a "what if" scenario where Enel was a pirate instead of ruler of Skypiea.
I'll just take it as his bounty representing his PL for the most part, as it always does. PL plays the biggest role in determining bounty, and then other threat levels (such as violence, status etc). There are exceptions like Robin and Ussop to this, but usually this is the pattern.
Of course his DF comes into picture here for his bounty. So what? DF is a big factor in his powerlevel, like how it is for vast majority of the fruit users.


Enel would be scrub in new world based on what? His attack power and destructive feats are Yonko/admiral tier.
He has insane speed and can fly. He can instantly just fly high up into the air and spam nukes. Has observation haki ranging tens of kms, allowing to him know whenever anyone or any attack approaches him.
There are very few characters in the new world who can take him on.

He only has the best basic CoO due to his DF, not himself. It was stated that " He can even use his powers to greatly enhance his mantra to near-omniscient levels by reading electric-signals in the air from afar. " (https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Enel#Abilities_and_Powers) From OP wiki.

I mentioned other Logia users who are actual monsters without their DF. Enel does not compare to them in the slightest. Luffy without his DF is still pretty buff, look at him using ACoC without his DF/gears. The admirals would still be deadly without their logia DFs. Enel was not stronger than Zolo in Skypiea.
Also, thanks to the Ark Maxim, he was able to be a "Nation Destroyer" with his DF.

It's the Lightning DF that makes him near invincible, but take it away and he is scrub with basic CoO. He'll lose his amazing CoO without his Electric DF.
People overhype because he may have a "500m" bounty. Yeah due to the destructive nature of his DF. Give him another DF and he would NOT be that strong or have a would be bounty that high. Max 100m.
He is nowhere near Admiral/Yonko tier dont kid yourself.
Physically he lost to a Pre-gears Luffy. And Oda knew about the Gears by then surely.

 

[Ricko]

I'm agree, people overestimate Enel, I think he's trash...

Remember that guy with insane DF and CoO loosed against base Luffy !!!!

Even if his DF couldn't be used in aggresive way, he still have a superior utility than the one of Luffy.
Like superior speed, gold melting, evasion with CoO and even more if Enel was a bit creative and practicing.
But he was just a weakling with insane fruit and relying only on this power. That why Oda made the parralel with Ace, who even without his fruit power could give a good fight.

If we compare this fight with others people with CoO pre-timeskip, it's Marygold and Sandersonia.
And before he go to G2, Luffy had lot more of trouble against them than against Enel...

That mean Enel, without his DF is not even comparable to the Gorgone sisters in combat skill... G2 Luffy would have trash him like Pekom did with Caribou...
We can't decently compare him to the powerhouse of new world.

 

[Windfall Island]

How powerful is enel without his df has already been shown via his match up vs luffy because vs luffy its as good as fighting with no df.

So oda has already shown us how strong enel is without his df.

BM with her 9x bounty of enel without a doubt possess superior lightning based attacks than enel since she is a god damn yonko. Even 9 RS easily dealt with kaido's roar of lighting attack.

BM's lightning attack Tenjin's Wrath was tanked by both zoro & kidd & both of them were just fine next chapter. So enel will be inferior to plenty of NW commanders , zoro , sanji , kidd , law , sabo etc characters should be able to blitz past enel's attack & land attack on him.

Enel is a glass canon & i would argue his coo & speed will be mediocre amongst top 30 characters in NW.

Enel's portrayal benefits from being a frog in the well who never had to go against top 30 OP characters + add the initial god like first impression of him & nostalgia & you have a perfect recepie for an overrated character.

 

[Fox666]

BM with her 9x bounty of enel without a doubt possess superior lightning based attacks than enel since she is a god damn yonko. Even 9 RS easily dealt with kaido's roar of lighting attack.

Luffy has a bounty 2.5x that of Sabo... so his fire attacks are superior to Sabo's?

Well, no, because Luffy's fire attacks are not his primary form of combat

If Big Mom and Enel fought:
- They would attack each other with lightning
- Enel would come on top, and laughs at it
- Big Mom emerges unfazed, and Enel goes
- Big Mom one-shots Enel with her fist

 

[Windfall Island]

Luffy has a bounty 2.5x that of Sabo... so his fire attacks are superior to Sabo's?

Well, no, because Luffy's fire attacks are not his primary form of combat

If Big Mom and Enel fought:
- They would attack each other with lightning
- Enel would come on top, and laughs at it
- Big Mom emerges unfazed, and Enel goes
- Big Mom one-shots Enel with her fist

BM 's lightning attack is superior to enel's despite of that being not her primary form of combat. Because she is a yonko. She is just so much stronger that even her non primary form of combat is stronger than enels primary form of combat.
No way enel is temporarily knocking out wano arc lvl zoro, killer & kidd like BM did.

 

[grey matter]

BM 's lightning attack is superior to enel's despite of that being not her primary form of combat. Because she is a yonko. She is just so much stronger that even her non primary form of combat is stronger than enels primary form of combat.
No way enel is temporarily knocking out wano arc lvl zoro, killer & kidd like BM did.

It doesn't work that way.
DF mastery, combat stats and haki are completely different things. You can be top tier in DF mastery, while simultaneously be relative fodder in stats and haki. Doflamingo is another example of this. Top tier DF mastery, but relatively mediocre stats and haki.

Enel has demonstrated incredible DF mastery.

Enel, till date, has one of the highest attack power and destructive feats in the series. He destroyed his home country on his own. And completely vap'd an entire island.

 

[M3J]

Enel literally one-shot almost everyone but Luffy, though.

 

[Core D. Roy]

BM 's lightning attack is superior to enel's despite of that being not her primary form of combat. Because she is a yonko. She is just so much stronger that even her non primary form of combat is stronger than enels primary form of combat.
No way enel is temporarily knocking out wano arc lvl zoro, killer & kidd like BM did.

Enel can likely naturally do what Nami had to do through her climatact. Homies have souls, but their physical form is just the thing that they're made of. Enel could probably just hijack Zeus/Hera with no problems and not even needing any special tool or convincing.

 

[Windfall Island]

Enel literally one-shot almost everyone but Luffy, though.

Those were very weak pre ts pre enies lobby zoro etc. Lvl.

 

[M3J]

Those were very weak pre ts pre enies lobby zoro etc. Lvl.

I think he could still one-shot them though, and it's still an impressive feat to be able to take out Zoro and Sanji with one attack. They've taken abuses and still got up and fought back, but lightning took them out. Is that the only time in the series they were ever one-shot?

I mean, even Mihawk couldn't do that to Zoro. I don't know if we count Lucci doing that to Luffy (and Kaku to Zoro?) as both were just stuck, not knocked out.