One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

All this is true.

It is also true Akainu got KO'd and that if Akainu didn't conveniently slide off a cliff, WB would've killed him.

WB would've died later from the injuries of course, he was beyond repair. But WB was the victor in that fight, WB won it extreme diff

Well whitebeard had him immobilized , completely winded and dead to Rights he was immobilized and WB probably could have killed jim there and then if he went for it
I classify it as the same as the Akainu vs Kuzan fight , pure will kept WB going cause he was way worse for west than akainu

 

[DeadlyBeast]

All this is true.

It is also true Akainu got KO'd and that if Akainu didn't conveniently slide off a cliff, WB would've killed him.

WB would've died later from the injuries of course, he was beyond repair. But WB was the victor in that fight, WB won it extreme diff

Honestly I used to think this but looking back at it all now I think Akainu is the clear winner of this fight. He inflicted a fatal wound to WB without sustaining any serious life threatening injuries himself.

Additionally, Akainu was not KOed. He was still fully conscious and yelling at WB when falling into the chasm created by gura gura no mi.

Spoiler: Final battle between WB and Akainu

In fact that is how Akainu managed to save himself from falling into the ocean, which to me says that Akainu could have continued to attack WB in the next few seconds. If there was no chasm present and Akainu stayed I think he would have ended up finishing WB. After this fight it took very little effort from Blackbeard and his crew to finish WB off.


All WB was successful at in this fight is overpowering Akainu with brute strength, not actually winning a fight. A young WB definitely should be able to beat a prime Akainu in a difficult fight but Marineford was not that.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 21, 2022, Original Post Date: Jan 21, 2022 ---

I always point out , akainu left WB with significantly more fatal wounds , blasted chest and melted organs + losing half his face , while akainu was in top shape relatively and able to chase after the Blackbeard pirates damn near immediate after the war and make them retreat even ,
Again I think I blame the anime , from the manga WB and akainu is way more even
Heck kizaru got the better of whitebeard consistently when they fought
Hmm vs Kuzan was no conclusion
I always feel like Oda was hitting us over the head that while still incredibly powerful , WB wasn’t the strongest man in the world anymore at that point ( couldn’t use his COO and COC at command , constantly keeling over and his durability probably significantly compromised , prime WB saves ace , tho counterpart , garp and Sengoku get serious and participate the pirates get routed hella quick )
Cause so far lore wise top of the top seems to be roger whitebeard garp Sengoku and rocks , where they’re all kinda relative to each other power wise ( 2 marines , 3 pirates )
And I can almost bet that dragon was probably like a VA or rear admiral before he defected, probably a shoo in for a future admiral before he defected , I think at least he was a recruit and I almost sure he’s an insane powerhouse ( that’s unless rumors that while he’s a d he took his wife’s name and luffy’s mum is garps daughter )

Yep in retrospect, a lot of WB pirates moments against the OG Marine Admirals shows just how powerful Marine Admirals are. A future fight between Luffy and Akainu will definitely be challenging.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I think there’s something to be said of Blackbeard willing to face whitebeard, then garp/Sengoku but not akainu

 

[albertwv]

I always point out , akainu left WB with significantly more fatal wounds , blasted chest and melted organs + losing half his face , while akainu was in top shape relatively and able to chase after the Blackbeard pirates damn near immediate after the war and make them retreat even ,
Again I think I blame the anime , from the manga WB and akainu is way more even
Heck kizaru got the better of whitebeard consistently when they fought
Hmm vs Kuzan was no conclusion

Yet you conveniently forget to point out that WB was sick and not at his full strength, while Akainu was. WB won that fight. And if Akainu had gotten up from that fall quickly, he would've still lost to WB, even killed. . Akainu got saved by being dropped into that split. Yeah saved.
Of course Akainu dealt more deadly damage, thats because of the nature of his DF.
Akainu was lucky to be able to blast WB's chest, because WB's health deteriorated.
The BB pirates were able to kill WB because they overwhelmed him, there were like 9 of them slashing and attacking WB, while WB did nothing but take the hits. Plus he was near death's door.

I think there’s something to be said of Blackbeard willing to face whitebeard, then garp/Sengoku but not akainu

BB wanted WB's DF, but he only approach WB when he was weakened. Then attacked, even begged for his life and was able to defeat WB with the help of his powerful ID inmate level 6 crewmates.
Then he stole the DF and was way overconfident to think he could defeat both Sengoku and Garp, which ideally I dont think BB could've done it if they had gone serious.
BB ran away from Akainu after he calmed down days later. BB realized that if his crew fought Akainu, they may have been able to defeat him but at what cost? It would have been an extremely difficult win, and any plans of the BB Pirates gaining power would be postponed or even worse put to a stop. BB weighed in his options: Kill Akainu and possibly lose half his crew or more OR run away to consolidate his strength and become stronger. His plan was not to fight Akainu just yet... he wanted to conquer WB's territories, steal DF powers, become a Yonko, and finally be Pirate King and challenge the Navy way later.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Yet you conveniently forget to point out that WB was sick and not at his full strength, while Akainu was. WB won that fight. And if Akainu had gotten up from that fall quickly, he would've still lost to WB, even killed. . Akainu got saved by being dropped into that split. Yeah saved.
Of course Akainu dealt more deadly damage, thats because of the nature of his DF.
Akainu was lucky to be able to blast WB's chest, because WB's health deteriorated.
The BB pirates were able to kill WB because they overwhelmed him, there were like 9 of them slashing and attacking WB, while WB did nothing but take the hits. Plus he was near death's door.



BB wanted WB's DF, but he only approach WB when he was weakened. Then attacked, even begged for his life and was able to defeat WB with the help of his powerful ID inmate level 6 crewmates.
Then he stole the DF and was way overconfident to think he could defeat both Sengoku and Garp, which ideally I dont think BB could've done it if they had gone serious.
BB ran away from Akainu after he calmed down days later. BB realized that if his crew fought Akainu, they may have been able to defeat him but at what cost? It would have been an extremely difficult win, and any plans of the BB Pirates gaining power would be postponed or even worse put to a stop. BB weighed in his options: Kill Akainu and possibly lose half his crew or more OR run away to consolidate his strength and become stronger. His plan was not to fight Akainu just yet... he wanted to conquer WB's territories, steal DF powers, become a Yonko, and finally be Pirate King and challenge the Navy way later.

Me prime beard is the strongest dude in the show
For me he’s comfortably that
But sick whitebeard at marineford isn’t the strongest man in the world , and that’s ok he’s old and sick , heck I think that was the theme Oda was hammering on , changing times and things not lasting forever
Heck at that point he’s the weakest
People say he’s sick , whitebeard chose to enter the fight in that condition . He chose that state and in that state he’s not the strongest man in the world .
among the yonkou I think it’s clear he’s the weakest at that point in that state
I’m not talking about prime beard or healthy whitebeard

 

[grey matter]

Honestly I used to think this but looking back at it all now I think Akainu is the clear winner of this fight. He inflicted a fatal wound to WB without sustaining any serious life threatening injuries himself.

Additionally, Akainu was not KOed. He was still fully conscious and yelling at WB when falling into the chasm created by gura gura no mi.

Spoiler: Final battle between WB and Akainu

In fact that is how Akainu managed to save himself from falling into the ocean, which to me says that Akainu could have continued to attack WB in the next few seconds. If there was no chasm present and Akainu stayed I think he would have ended up finishing WB. After this fight it took very little effort from Blackbeard and his crew to finish WB off.


All WB was successful at in this fight is overpowering Akainu with brute strength, not actually winning a fight. A young WB definitely should be able to beat a prime Akainu in a difficult fight but Marineford was not that.

He was completely winded and unable to do anything. You're right that he wasn't completely KO'd like Luffy against Kaido.

If he could've got up and came back to fight WB, he had ample time when he was sliding off a cliff. He can also fly with his logia powers, he was so winded that he couldn't even do that.

He eventually got a hold of himself and held on, but WB was the victor there.

Me prime beard is the strongest dude in the show
For me he’s comfortably that

He's stronger than Roger?

But sick whitebeard at marineford isn’t the strongest man in the world , and that’s ok he’s old and sick , heck I think that was the theme Oda was hammering on , changing times and things not lasting forever
Heck at that point he’s the weakest
People say he’s sick , whitebeard chose to enter the fight in that condition . He chose that state and in that state he’s not the strongest man in the world .
among the yonkou I think it’s clear he’s the weakest at that point in that state
I’m not talking about prime beard or healthy whitebeard

Even Old WB was still the strongest, as long as he wasn't off meds for too long.
Had insane conqueror's and observation haki

Pretty sure Marines and pirates kept a tab on him, they still called him the strongest pirate. From low levels like Buggy, to top dogs like Sengoku and admirals.

IMO:
Prime WB > Old WB (on meds) >= Kaido > BM/Shanks > Old WB in Marineford (off meds for days)

 

[XXGenesis]

One Piece power scailing is fine imo for the most part; We do have a few outliers, and I personally wish Haki wasn’t such an elusive buff yet majority of the New World uses it..

like I normally mention the consistent conversation(s) about the same top 15 characters of the verse and how they match up becomes boring and repetitive.

Im guilty of it too honestly but Oda is simply trolling us with the power scailing as we will have to wait until the series plays out for most of our answers to our questions.

WB was Roger’s Rival. Unfortunately WB is Sick & Old when we are introduced to him those factors aren’t quantifiable to compare his strength to other Yonkou.

Therefore WB’s clashes with the Admirals don’t prove what would happen if they clash with the other Yonkou, who are healthy powerhouses.

 

[grey matter]

I think there’s something to be said of Blackbeard willing to face whitebeard, then garp/Sengoku but not akainu

Should Garp be as strong as Old WB in meds?

Both are about same age, so I assume they also weakened the same, with the exception of WB's sickness.

I think it's more of a case of BB not wanting to take unnecessary battles.
BB was in Marineford, he had to fight his way out until Shanks gave him a way out. In the island where he imprisoned Bonney, he could just flee as he pleased

One Piece power scailing is fine imo for the most part; We do have a few outliers, and I personally wish Haki wasn’t such an elusive buff yet majority of the New World uses it..

like I normally mention the consistent conversation(s) about the same top 15 characters of the verse and how they match up becomes boring and repetitive.

Im guilty of it too honestly but Oda is simply trolling us with the power scailing as we will have to wait until the series plays out for most of our answers to our questions.

WB was Roger’s Rival. Unfortunately WB is Sick & Old when we are introduced to him those factors aren’t quantifiable to compare his strength to other Yonkou.

Therefore WB’s clashes with the Admirals don’t prove what would happen if they clash with the other Yonkou, who are healthy powerhouses.

IMO Akainu is Yonko level.
Doesn't mean he can win against one, but any Yonko fight with Akainu is getting to high diff at least IMO

We will soon see how powerful Akainu is.
Oda has great hype and respect for him, apparently he would've become PK within an year (or was it two?) if he was a pirate.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I was gone for like 3 seconds, what is happening

 

[albertwv]

One Piece power scailing is fine imo for the most part; We do have a few outliers, and I personally wish Haki wasn’t such an elusive buff yet majority of the New World uses it..

I disagree, most of the NW does NOT use Haki or at least show that they have it. Like the Flying 6 and Calamities. I dont think at all did any of the Calamities use any type of Haki in their fights. I think WW was the only F6 who used Haki vs Jimbei.
Disappointing, you would expect the F6, veterans in the NW to use CoA or CoO. Especially since Haki seems to be a thing for stronger individuals, but yet they didnt use it. To add on to that, the Beasts Pirates are physical fighters who rely on their physical strengths, yet none used CoA? Oda dropped the ball on that. it would've been nice to see Franky, Robin, and Brooks learn CoA and use it versus these opponents, they were the right opponents to use it against.

Now the Calamities NOT using CoA, was extremely disappointing. They are the TOP fighters of A Yonko and they didnt use CoA or CoO. Smh. I was thinking King or Queen we're going to be able to do full Haki body.
Well whatever their fights were uneventful.

What I do want to talk about is this: I always imagined that the Yonko Commanders and Executives had encountered other YCs and YEs from the other Yonko crews throughout their piracy days. For example, I imagined the Beasts Pirates had fought the Big Mom Pirates before, like small skirmishes or so. Either they competed or pitted each other. But it seems that for the most part, they YCs have not fought other YCs before.
So when Katakuri was mentioned to have never lost a fight before, it did not impress me. I assumed katakuri knew when and who to fight. he seems like an intelligent being who saw who he could defeat and when he had to retreat. Rather than losing a fight he would rather not fight them knowing he would lose. It is highly unlikely he ever encountered Marcos or King before. He probably only fought scrubs but no YCs.

 

[grey matter]

I disagree, most of the NW does NOT use Haki or at least show that they have it. Like the Flying 6 and Calamities. I dont think at all did any of the Calamities use any type of Haki in their fights. I think WW was the only F6 who used Haki vs Jimbei.
Disappointing, you would expect the F6, veterans in the NW to use CoA or CoO. Especially since Haki seems to be a thing for stronger individuals, but yet they didnt use it. To add on to that, the Beasts Pirates are physical fighters who rely on their physical strengths, yet none used CoA? Oda dropped the ball on that. it would've been nice to see Franky, Robin, and Brooks learn CoA and use it versus these opponents, they were the right opponents to use it against.

Now the Calamities NOT using CoA, was extremely disappointing. They are the TOP fighters of A Yonko and they didnt use CoA or CoO. Smh. I was thinking King or Queen we're going to be able to do full Haki body.
Well whatever their fights were uneventful.

What I do want to talk about is this: I always imagined that the Yonko Commanders and Executives had encountered other YCs and YEs from the other Yonko crews throughout their piracy days. For example, I imagined the Beasts Pirates had fought the Big Mom Pirates before, like small skirmishes or so. Either they competed or pitted each other. But it seems that for the most part, they YCs have not fought other YCs before.
So when Katakuri was mentioned to have never lost a fight before, it did not impress me. I assumed katakuri knew when and who to fight. he seems like an intelligent being who saw who he could defeat and when he had to retreat. Rather than losing a fight he would rather not fight them knowing he would lose. It is highly unlikely he ever encountered Marcos or King before. He probably only fought scrubs but no YCs.

I think it's more of a case of Oda not showing armament hardening anymore, because that phase has passed.

In the beginning it was focused, because it was only the intro of hardening and Oda wanted to showcase it

Also, the "black" (or hardening) isn't the only type of armament. Armament can be invisible as well.

Vista and Marco haven't shown the black hardening either, but we know they have it. Because Marco was able to kick Kizaru, Vista was able to slash Akainu

Pretty sure I saw Ulti using armament against Luffy and Yamato.

Queen was shown using haki against Sanji. Don't remember when, but IK it did happen.

King's sword didn't break against Zoro's
And, as far as we know, King's swords are not some special grade swords like Zoro's. He has an inferior quality sword.
If his sword didn't break from Zoro's attacks, the only reason is because King's armament haki is at least comparable to Zoro's own

IK you don't consider Vivre card as canon, but at least of these type of info (that we don't get in main series), they should be credible.
All Tobiroppo and calamities are confirmed users of observation and armament based on Vivre cards

 

[XXGenesis]

@albertwv
Yes Majority of the New World does know Haki. The noteworthy players

We have Amazon Lily, the fodder of this island use haki.

Wano presumably fodder are capable also, but the Samurai of any decent strength use haki.

I can only imagine the giants of Elbaf knowing Haki also..

All of the SN have learned Haki,
Marines not even of the VA title can use haki..ex. tigashi

I said Majority because Rayleigh mentions meeting a Haki is natural encounter in the New World.

So I fail to understand HOW or WHY haki’s full functions isn’t common knowledge but have a speculation that doesn’t satisfy my curiosity/suspended belief…I guess because info is tampered with and doesn’t just doesn’t travel around the One Piece well Idk…..

 

[Zehahaha]

I have my little doubts over old WB being as strong as Kaido. I am just not sure he can sustain a lengthy battle. You can be sure Kaido will be able to hurt him, and that could trigger his health issues.

Prime WB is above them all no doubt.

 

[XXGenesis]

Old & sick WB cannot be scailed to the other Yonkou. How much his age effects him isn’t quantifiable; Neither is how much his sickness effects him. With all that we still know he can hurt Akainu, maintain his position as a Yonkou….I.e WB we see we have no real clue besides his prime how strong He is in relation to other characters

Lol this is Oda’s troll. I simple challenge fans not to get so caught up in it.

Also a fault I guess or an issue I have is. The Crews of the Yonkou seem to have no real history between one another….??? So you mean to tell me their reputations were built up of no name marines, crimes/incidents, and fodder pirates??

 

[grey matter]

I have my little doubts over old WB being as strong as Kaido. I am just not sure he can sustain a lengthy battle. You can be sure Kaido will be able to hurt him, and that could trigger his health issues.

Prime WB is above them all no doubt.

Old WB (on meds) had conqueror's haki on par with Shanks, and Shank IMO is the best haki user currently alive.
His observation haki was active even in his sleep, and was able to no diff Ace (who was Jinbe tier then) in his sleep.

I think WB can keep fighting on for a few hours if he's right out of his meds. Based on the Ace novel.
I doubt any serious (bloodlusted) fight is lasting hours, so he should be fine.

Old WB on meds have the feats to back up the hype as the strongest pirate as well (conqueror's on par with Shanks, no diffing Jinbe tiers), provided he isn't off his meds for too long.

The WB we saw in Marineford was nerfed a lot more than his self when he's on meds, since he was off the meds for days.

Old & sick WB cannot be scailed to the other Yonkou. How much his age effects him isn’t quantifiable; Neither is how much his sickness effects him. With all that we still know he can hurt Akainu, maintain his position as a Yonkou….I.e WB we see we have no real clue besides his prime how strong He is in relation to other characters

Yeah, we will have to wait and see how strong Akainu is to know how strong old and sick WB is.

Cause what we do know is that old and sick WB was slightly stronger than Akainu, strong enough to extreme diff him. Old WB on meds is a cut above Akainu, and Marineford WB

Just my headcanon relative levels:
Prime WB = 100
Old WB (in meds) = 86
Kaido = 85
Old and sick WB (off meds for days) =75
Akainu = 74

 

[I Am Atomic]

Luffy jumped from Yc1 to Yonko level just because he learned how to use advanced CoC.

WB in the war couldn't even use CoC, but still the top dog.

P.s. I know aCoC wasn't a thing back then, but imagine if that was the case *mind blown*

However, I do agree with most people here. Yonko Vs Admiral is pretty an even fight with the Yonko slightly edging over them.

The only exceptions are Roger, WB, and Garp in their Prime.

My head cannon: Prime WB > Prime Roger

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Old WB (on meds) had conqueror's haki on par with Shanks, and Shank IMO is the best haki user currently alive.
His observation haki was active even in his sleep, and was able to no diff Ace (who was Jinbe tier then) in his sleep.

I think WB can keep fighting on for a few hours if he's right out of his meds. Based on the Ace novel.
I doubt any serious (bloodlusted) fight is lasting hours, so he should be fine.

Old WB on meds have the feats to back up the hype as the strongest pirate as well (conqueror's on par with Shanks, no diffing Jinbe tiers), provided he isn't off his meds for too long.

The WB we saw in Marineford was nerfed a lot more than his self when he's on meds, since he was off the meds for days.



Yeah, we will have to wait and see how strong Akainu is to know how strong old and sick WB is.

Cause what we do know is that old and sick WB was slightly stronger than Akainu, strong enough to extreme diff him. Old WB on meds is a cut above Akainu, and Marineford WB

Just my headcanon relative levels:
Prime WB = 100
Old WB (in meds) = 86
Kaido = 85
Old and sick WB (off meds for days) =75
Akainu = 74

He has conquerors on par with shanks for a moment we don’t know how sustainable it was
Ie for moments in the war he could take some hits

Should Garp be as strong as Old WB in meds?

Both are about same age, so I assume they also weakened the same, with the exception of WB's sickness.

I think it's more of a case of BB not wanting to take unnecessary battles.
BB was in Marineford, he had to fight his way out until Shanks gave him a way out. In the island where he imprisoned Bonney, he could just flee as he pleased



IMO Akainu is Yonko level.
Doesn't mean he can win against one, but any Yonko fight with Akainu is getting to high diff at least IMO

We will soon see how powerful Akainu is.
Oda has great hype and respect for him, apparently he would've become PK within an year (or was it two?) if he was a pirate.

I have my little doubts over old WB being as strong as Kaido. I am just not sure he can sustain a lengthy battle. You can be sure Kaido will be able to hurt him, and that could trigger his health issues.

Prime WB is above them all no doubt.

I don’t durability wise kaido is probably number one among the yonkou
And raw physical strength I am not sure at their peaks WB is that much ahead of him
The only thing I am sure WB edges is COC and COO

 

[DeadlyBeast]

He was completely winded and unable to do anything. You're right that he wasn't completely KO'd like Luffy against Kaido.

If he could've got up and came back to fight WB, he had ample time when he was sliding off a cliff. He can also fly with his logia powers, he was so winded that he couldn't even do that.

He eventually got a hold of himself and held on, but WB was the victor there.

That's true, he did choose to do quick retreat and regroup. Knowing his personality if he was in decent shape he'd have stayed to finish off WB and probably go after Blackbeard since they showed up right after this moment. Considering this was old WB, if Luffy gets to prime WB and Rodger level strength he should be able to beat Akainu.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Man I think Oda had hyped Akainu like crazy
Number one offensive fruit
Apparently if he was the protagonist of one piece the manga would end in a year

 

[Fallou]

Man I think Oda had hyped Akainu like crazy
Number one offensive fruit
Apparently if he was the protagonist of one piece the manga would end in a year

Yeah I have to agree Akainu is something special, his fruit burned Ace and took off half of WBs face.
It feels very very lethal, like if you get touched by it that part of your body’s just gone. Of course, we’ll have to see how it measures to the various iterations of armament haki that have been introduced since. And a good FS + speed might prevent one from getting touched at all.