One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[john ellis]

name	luffy	kaido	zoro	sanji	yamato	BM	King
power	9	10	8.5	7	9	10	8
speed	10(snakeman 9 without)	9.5	8	8.5	8	9.5	8(9 speed form)
durabillity	9.5	11	8	7	8.5	11	8( 9.5 defense form)
stamina	10	10	9	7	9	10	7
skill	8	9	10	9	8	9	8
haki	10	10	9	7	9	10	7

i gave BM and kaido equal states it's just i think there too comparable i think Kaido slightly wins but i don't think he outright beats her in anything. Bm and Kaido durability is off the charts. I don't think i'm under rating sanji in any of these. I believe pure swordman have the highest skill in there techiques and don't just win via raw power or haki.

haki wise anyone with Advanced CoC is an easy 9 and anyone with haki behold that is a 10. Anyone without CoC cannot be past a 7 in my books. I would rate sanji and king's haki pretty equally king wasn't shown to have that good haki.

 

[XXGenesis]

Says who? Luffy is the benchmark here. And Luffy is most definitely a 10 in speed PERIOD, snake-man was blitzing someone like Kaido who needed future sight to stop it.

No Luffy is not a 10 in speed. He is not the benchmark for speed...Kizaru would be the benchmark; Or Brook or Sanji who have raw high speed movement. While Luffy’s Snakeman attack has high raw attack speed; He does not move his body, only his fist at those high speeds.

I’m the member that suggested the idea to assign numbers to stats….So I say, lol jk. but I will not agree with a 10 score for Luffy when there are characters & feats better than his own….I did suggest this, but the hardest part is getting everybody to agree on a shared metric….10 is max; top of verse;

Giving zoro a 6 in durability when he’s shown some of the best feats of durability in the entire series is crazy lol. Have you forgotten about thriller bark?
Forget thriller bark lol do you not remember roof piece??

Maybe your are misinterpreting Durability for Stamina.Ex. Durability simply is how hard & resistant to damage something is;

Zoro is only human, he can be shot, bruised, pierced like any other human…Roof Piece he sacrificed breaking all the bones in his body for those few seconds of blocking. He had the stamina to continue fighting in that condition, but not the durability to not have all bones broken.

Sanji is a genetically enhanced human, he will not take damage from normal bullets, blunt force, or piercing attacks his skin is way more durable than normal humans..

Stamina, is the capacity someone has to continue to preform even after exhausting or sustaining injuries. Not the same as durability.

 

[Bandit99]

Durability simply is how hard & resistant to damage something is;

So you’re taking endurance out of durability?

By stamina you mean endurance?

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

So Sanji tanked a YC2 hit without taking damage and had better durability then Zoro? Didn’t Zoro briefly survive a combined yonko attack, look it probably would of killed him at some point. But it’s the best feat in terms of defense in the entire series so far.

Giving zoro a 6 in durability when he’s shown some of the best feats of durability in the entire series is crazy lol. Have you forgotten about thriller bark?
Forget thriller bark lol do you not remember roof piece??

zoro has incredible endurance/stamina it's not quite the same as durability, durability is in reference to being immune to attacks before damage , ie the iron skin of kaido and big mum
naturally it goes kaido > big mum > yamato >= luffy >= sanji > zoro
sanji in awakened german mode is immune to point blank slashes , zoro can't take that he'd probably lose his head , luffy is high too cause of the amount of blunt force trauma he take , being immune to basic kicks and punches
zoro blocking the yonkou attack is an impressive feat of strength technique and endurance

 

[XXGenesis]

So Sanji tanked a YC2 hit without taking damage and had better durability then Zoro? Didn’t Zoro briefly survive a combined yonko attack, look it probably would of killed him at some point. But it’s the best feat in terms of defense in the entire series so far.

So you’re taking endurance out of durability?

By stamina you mean endurance?

It May be best you Google it yourself; instead of reading my explanations. You may understand it much better there. But there’s a difference in definition between the two. Close & similar but mean & represent different things.

 

[john ellis]

zoro has incredible endurance/stamina it's not quite the same as durability, durability is in reference to being immune to attacks before damage , ie the iron skin of kaido and big mum
naturally it goes kaido > big mum > yamato >= luffy >= sanji > zoro
sanji in awakened german mode is immune to point blank slashes , zoro can't take that he'd probably lose his head , luffy is high too cause of the amount of blunt force trauma he take , being immune to basic kicks and punches
zoro blocking the yonkou attack is an impressive feat of strength technique and endurance

Zoro has advance CoC, we’ve seen how durable advance CoC users are compared to non CoC users. The strength of one’s Haki directly related to there durability hence kaido and BM while being “normal” Um half giant and oni have monsterous amounts of durability for there race. Lunarians, which Sanji probably has some traits, do seem to have the highest durability for there race, however even still every lunarian we have seen have lower durability then CoC users still. @XXGenesis

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Here's a fun ranking in order of strength I thought of off the bat! You may or may not read in to it. In a sense it's my POV of how I see the elite characters in One Piece both alive and dead and their overall ranking taking in to perspective their combat strength in their prime - especially for those who are beyond that age/dead - and currently as the story goes.
Notice the 3 asterisked characters more explanation about why they are ranked there and my reason behind it...


Character : Tier

Roger: Legendary
Whitebeard: Legendary
Garp: Legendary
Xebec: Legendary
Sengoku: Legendary
Rayleigh: Legendary
Kaido: Great - Legendary
Shanks: Great - Legendary
Big Mom: Great - Legendary
*Oden: Great - Legendary
*Blackbeard: Great
Akainu & Aokiji: Great
Kizaru: Great
Fujitora & Ryokogyu: Great
*Mihawk: Great
Beckman: Great
Marco: Great
Katakuri: Great
King: Great
Weevil: Great
Tsuru: Great

From here on, the list broadens and accomodates too many characters mostly in the YC level category. Many of whom we are familiar with. I may decide to share my thoughts on those when I have the chance but I'll pause here for now.

So as for the asterisked trio:

1) The only reason Oden isn't in the Legendary tier is due to the fact that he died just before his prime (he was almost there). He definitely would have been at least on par with Rayleigh but an untimely death prevented that. I'm one of those who feel he might have reached a similar level to Roger and Whitebeard if only he lived like 20 years more. He was this close!

2) Blackbeard may be the freshest Yonko in terms of coronation - of course Shanks has the best looks and is the youngest of the 4 - and that shouldn't be a judge of his strength compared to the rest but it just feels that way for me. He may as well be in the Great - Legendary tier of my list (sitting bottom) but I'd regretfully settle with him taking the no. 1 spot among the Great tier.

3) The most handsome Shichibukai ever elected. Arguably the most handsome character in the series. I feel there's a slim chance Mihawk ranks with the Great - Legendary tier but that just doesn't sit well with what I've seen so far. This is the one character that has caused me a little headache but the least he can be is being on par with characters in the Great tier. I hope I don't regret this decision when the Mihawk reveal begins and the man shows off his "great" sword skills

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 22, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 22, 2020 ---

It's been a fun reveal so far and I wouldn't change anything in my list.

We are approaching the end of Wano and I still feel I'd like it to end properly before including a few more characters - especially the Strawhats themselves

 

[Bandit99]

It May be best you Google it yourself; instead of reading my explanations. You may understand it much better there. But there’s a difference in definition between the two. Close & similar but mean & represent different things.

Yeah I get the difference now. I understand what you meant. I always lump endurance with durability but they can definitely be separated like you’ve done

 

[really_jonny]

I don't understand at how you guys put those who don't have advanced Haoshoku with only one point difference to those who do

 

[XXGenesis]

@john ellis

CoA Haki makes you more durable not ACoC;

ACoC is used to add attack power & it can defend against attacks. But it doesn’t make your body physically more durable.

Fans speculated that was the reason for Kaido & Big Mom’s iron skin. Oda simply explained Kaido is a Oni who’s ate the Mythical Dragon fruit so he has tough scales; Big Mom is 1 of 1, anomaly. King the Lunarian when used his flames had higher defense than Kaido.

I don't understand at how you guys put those who don't have advanced Haoshoku with only one point difference to those who do

I see ppl give 10/10 for & I Highly disagree.

Power scailing is for fun. So the numbers don’t represent shit, because It’s fan made…

In a technical sense we would have to rate CoO, CoA, CoC, do the average and that would be the Haki lv of mastery….that’s mad work

I think it just make sense to use the numbers on a scale that aligns with Portryals. So if you say 10/10 must be the best or one of thr portryals in the series.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Unless it's Lance or Redon or the Korean leader confirming the spoulers I would just use a healthy bit of skepticism.

Those particular spoilers gave been out over 24 hrs with no confirmation, usually we'd have confirmation by now

With it being April Fools, this stuff happens every year

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Zoro has advance CoC, we’ve seen how durable advance CoC users are compared to non CoC users. The strength of one’s Haki directly related to there durability hence kaido and BM while being “normal” Um half giant and oni have monsterous amounts of durability for there race. Lunarians, which Sanji probably has some traits, do seem to have the highest durability for there race, however even still every lunarian we have seen have lower durability then CoC users still. @XXGenesis

This is conflating stuff , correlation isn’t not causation
Shanks got his arm bitten off by a regular sea monster
Of all the people with tough skin are all natural born monsters with that since birth yamato and kaido by being born onis and big mum just being an irregular existence
Advance coc doesn’t magically make you harder though, now if Zoro decides to harden his skin with it , then yes he’d become harder than anyone but on default he isn’t hard like Yamato oden sanji kaido luffy and big mum

 

[kkck]

To me it still looks like the specific reason for kaido's and big mom's apparently invulnerability was conqueror haki cladding. The biggest evidence of this is big mom scrapping her knee when something happened to mother caramel's picture. Basically, her willpower faltered and so did her cladding. Luffy's words against kaido about how his haki not being quite enough until he used cladding are also evidence of this IMO.

Now, in theory if zoro has used cladding and luffy has acquired some competence with it then they should be capable of this. The question is of course whether they could actually sustain this. Luffy and zoro have both evidenced the capacity to injure yonko and luffy has basically fought on par with kaido. But when it comes down to it kaido is still definitely stronger than luffy in one area that matters: haki pool. Kaido and big mom just appear to have a neverending pool of haki to drain from. Luffy in turn still gets drained by gear 4 and zoro can't sustain his max haki output for long even if its enough to be relevant against yonko and defense mode king. I suppose we have yet to see what gear 5 means for luffy's haki pool. Maybe luffy trades haki overuse for stamina consumption in this case? Since he doesn't need haki to sustain the form and can pretty much will his body into the shapes he needs. The tradeoff could potentially be enough to have him last far longer in combat.

on that note, sanji's base durability is probably the highest among the strawhats. Haki would probably skew things in favor of both zoro and luffy since their haki feats are substantially higher than sanji's. I wouldn't be surprised if sanji learns cladding soon enough. While he should be capable of giving shit to an admiral now, evidenced merely by his defeat of a YC2, he probably needs an edge to actually win. I would find it problematic if sanji never gets the high grade versions of the varios branches of haki skills tbh. The bare minimum of it for him should be foresight... and his basic skills are primed for internal damage.

 

[john ellis]

@Lord Traffy Law @XXGenesis as kick said above I think it’s pretty evident that CoC cladding is what gives the yonko there invincibility. Now shanks getting hurt by the sea monster is pure plot. And shouldn’t be actually read it onto the manga was too new for it to mean anything. Shanks should simply been way to strong for that sea monster.

A good way to look at it, there will power(Haki) is so strong and commanding it prevents the world from hurting them besides others of similar will. Why luffy can hurt kaido and why kaido can jump off the heavens without being hurt.

 

[Nie Li]

@Lord Traffy Law @XXGenesis as kick said above I think it’s pretty evident that CoC cladding is what gives the yonko there invincibility. Now shanks getting hurt by the sea monster is pure plot. And shouldn’t be actually read it onto the manga was too new for it to mean anything. Shanks should simply been way to strong for that sea monster.

Just by being a normal CoA user he should have already been capable of stopping its teeth with 0 risk.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

To me it still looks like the specific reason for kaido's and big mom's apparently invulnerability was conqueror haki cladding. The biggest evidence of this is big mom scrapping her knee when something happened to mother caramel's picture. Basically, her willpower faltered and so did her cladding. Luffy's words against kaido about how his haki not being quite enough until he used cladding are also evidence of this IMO.

Now, in theory if zoro has used cladding and luffy has acquired some competence with it then they should be capable of this. The question is of course whether they could actually sustain this. Luffy and zoro have both evidenced the capacity to injure yonko and luffy has basically fought on par with kaido. But when it comes down to it kaido is still definitely stronger than luffy in one area that matters: haki pool. Kaido and big mom just appear to have a neverending pool of haki to drain from. Luffy in turn still gets drained by gear 4 and zoro can't sustain his max haki output for long even if its enough to be relevant against yonko and defense mode king. I suppose we have yet to see what gear 5 means for luffy's haki pool. Maybe luffy trades haki overuse for stamina consumption in this case? Since he doesn't need haki to sustain the form and can pretty much will his body into the shapes he needs. The tradeoff could potentially be enough to have him last far longer in combat.

on that note, sanji's base durability is probably the highest among the strawhats. Haki would probably skew things in favor of both zoro and luffy since their haki feats are substantially higher than sanji's. I wouldn't be surprised if sanji learns cladding soon enough. While he should be capable of giving shit to an admiral now, evidenced merely by his defeat of a YC2, he probably needs an edge to actually win. I would find it problematic if sanji never gets the high grade versions of the varios branches of haki skills tbh. The bare minimum of it for him should be foresight... and his basic skills are primed for internal damage.

@Lord Traffy Law @XXGenesis as kick said above I think it’s pretty evident that CoC cladding is what gives the yonko there invincibility. Now shanks getting hurt by the sea monster is pure plot. And shouldn’t be actually read it onto the manga was too new for it to mean anything. Shanks should simply been way to strong for that sea monster.

A good way to look at it, there will power(Haki) is so strong and commanding it prevents the world from hurting them besides others of similar will. Why luffy can hurt kaido and why kaido can jump off the heavens without being hurt.

Even from birth they’re using conquerors cladding ? They were just natural born monsters
You have to awaken your haki to use it
Big mum at the very least was extremely strong and powerful
And I am assuming the same with kaido seeing the way he talks about humans , remember he’s an Oni , he sees humans as week as inferior
Cause them using an advanced technique from pretty much birth
i think irregular existences just exist in one piece

 

[john ellis]

@really_jonny no it doesn't that was a fodder pirate using haki, his haki is probably poor. It just simply means bobby funk has better haki then the fodder. Bobby funk clearly hasn't displayed yonko tier durability and yes it's yonko tier durabillity were talking about not durabillity to tank fodder.

@Lord Traffy Law BM and kaido may of been born like sub warlord tier but they certainly were not yonko tier or near yonko tier as kids, it took them unlocking there haki to become emperors. When kaido talks about aCoC users he talks about all yonko tier opponents, so it's implied aCoC is part of becoming a top tier of the world would also explain why it's taken so seairously. Also we can assume this using simple logic. aCoC is better then not having aCoC as such aCoC kaido>not aCoC kaido, as such kaido who is now yonko tier is superior to befoe kaido. Hence baby kaido is not yonko tier.

 

[XXGenesis]

@john ellis Its a really good theory, that I use to gravitate to strongly myself.

ACOC has only been shown to create a buffer between 2 objects. Providing extra attack
power.

Kaido I’m pretty sure he has tough Skin & is an Oni, a race we don’t know much about besides Oars so their durability makes sense. Also Scbbards used ACoA to hurt him…ACoC is stronger than ACoA

Big Mom when hit isn’t using any invisible armour. From a child she has been oddly strong.

 

[grey matter]

Even from birth they’re using conquerors cladding ? They were just natural born monsters
You have to awaken your haki to use it
Big mum at the very least was extremely strong and powerful
And I am assuming the same with kaido seeing the way he talks about humans , remember he’s an Oni , he sees humans as week as inferior
Cause them using an advanced technique from pretty much birth
i think irregular existences just exist in one piece

While you're right about there being freaks who are unnaturally hard, BM's case specifically seems to be conqueror's haki cladding.

There is no other explanation to freaking pebbles making her leg bleed, once her will waned.

 

[kkck]

Even from birth they’re using conquerors cladding ? They were just natural born monsters
You have to awaken your haki to use it
Big mum at the very least was extremely strong and powerful
And I am assuming the same with kaido seeing the way he talks about humans , remember he’s an Oni , he sees humans as week as inferior
Cause them using an advanced technique from pretty much birth
i think irregular existences just exist in one piece

I am not sure of what your point is here. I also have not said that big mom was using cladding since she was a child. Big mom was portrayed as monstrously strong as a child but she wasn't portrayed as straight up invulnerable.