One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Can anyone powerscale Zoro now that his bust size has been revealed to be larger than both Nami's and Robin's?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 1, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 1, 2022 ---

Or Jinbei with a bird df? Master land, sea. And Air?

 

[Nie Li]

Can anyone powerscale Zoro now that his bust size has been revealed to be larger than both Nami's and Robin's?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 1, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 1, 2022 ---

Or Jinbei with a bird df? Master land, sea. And Air?

Wouldn't he kind of stop being the master of the sea?

Regarding Zoro, all I can say is: No wonder his pecs could steal a scythe.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Wouldn't he kind of stop being the master of the sea?

Regarding Zoro, all I can say is: No wonder his pecs could steal a scythe.

I guess your right about Jinbei

Zoro's "happiness punch" scales to Yonko level tho

 

[Crimson Ice]

Kinda unfair measurement when some characters will never get to fight Kaido. Luffy has gotten blitz’s by Kaido repeatedly.

Sanji imo is just as fast as Luffy. Brook is very light On his foot & Oda has said he would win a foot race amongst the SHP. Kizaru is fast, there are levels to laser beams obviously, Kizaru shoots the strongest & fastest.

None of them will have any feats as good as that. Sanji's best feat is blitzing someone WAYYY weaker than Kaido, and as for Kizaru, characters like Old Ray was able to keep up with his speed. Until any of them show me better feats, I'm not placing them above Luffy.

 

[grey matter]

Can anyone powerscale Zoro now that his bust size has been revealed to be larger than both Nami's and Robin's?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 1, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 1, 2022 ---

Or Jinbei with a bird df? Master land, sea. And Air?

Wtf are these lol, what's the context?

Kizaru's Yata no Kagami technique gives him the fastest speed blitz in the manga, the problem is that he has to load. He can transform into light matter to dodge attacks and move with speed, as we saw against Whitebeard. I think he's the only one of the admirals in Marineford that in a fair x1 the WB wouldn't have a chance. His pure body speed is equivalent to that of Rayleigh, one of the most powerful characters in the work and top 3 best swordsmen in the world. I hope Kizaru hasn't awakened his fruit, that would be too much of an broken.

In terms of hype, he is the fastest.

Kizaru isn't taking down Marineford WB, when old Rayleigh himself could give him an extreme diff at least.
Eh, maybe he could if he cheese around with his speed until WB dies of heart attack lol

As for pure speed, yeah he's the fastest.
Combat speed/CQC and attack speed? We'll have to see

 

[Pirate Queen]

Wtf are these lol, what's the context?

The sbs has Zoro's bust size second only to Hancock and Jinbei's What if Devil Fruit is a bird type.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 2, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 2, 2022 ---

Tldr: @grey matter zoro has titties for days

 

[XXGenesis]

Combat and hand to hand speed are different from speed speed

This.

None of them will have any feats as good as that. Sanji's best feat is blitzing someone WAYYY weaker than Kaido, and as for Kizaru, characters like Old Ray was able to keep up with his speed. Until any of them show me better feats, I'm not placing them above Luffy.

Old Ray is top 30, so from my POV pointing that out isn’t saying much.

Luffy has only Blitz Kaido with movement speed twice if I recall correctly, Red Roc & ACOC during 1010. Kaido has blitz him over thrice already so Kaido is faster.

Luffy had the speed advantage with Kong Hydra; Which is Attack speed, only Luffy’s fist/arms are moving, not his body.

Sanji is able to move constantly at a speed he becomes invisible, Brook has done speed feats since forever. He’s way lighter than everybody else, Oda already said he wins the foot race;

 

[LadyVados]

None of them will have any feats as good as that.

Didn't Brook blitz Kaido's equal Big Mom ?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 2, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 2, 2022 ---

What power-up will Zoro get to catch up to Luffy ?

Black blade ? Roger's Sword ? Some sort of demon-related thing ?

 

[Crimson Ice]

This.



Old Ray is top 30, so from my POV pointing that out isn’t saying much.

Luffy has only Blitz Kaido with movement speed twice if I recall correctly, Red Roc & ACOC during 1010. Kaido has blitz him over thrice already so Kaido is faster.

Luffy had the speed advantage with Kong Hydra; Which is Attack speed, only Luffy’s fist/arms are moving, not his body.

Sanji is able to move constantly at a speed he becomes invisible, Brook has done speed feats since forever. He’s way lighter than everybody else, Oda already said he wins the foot race;

Old Ray is not stronger than Kaido, so yeah, Old Ray keeping up with Kizaru scales to Kaido. The only way this isn't the case is if we find out Ray was using future sight.

And no, Kaido isn't faster. When Luffy was getting "blitzed" it was in non-snakeman, Luffy in snakeman had Kaido unable to do anything without future sight.

Sanji becoming invisible is a relative thing, if his opponent can't track his movement he will disappear, if they can, he will still be visible. Oda said Brook would win a foot race a long time ago

 

[really_jonny]

Kenbunshoku grants slow motion vision as well. I believe that Advanced Kenbunshoku, in addition to granting future insights, improves the user's slow motion vision. It's no use for me to predict and see that in 5 seconds in the future my opponent will uppercut me if my body doesn't have reaction speed or my reflexes are super improved so the world seems to spin slower. This even exists in the real world, where in situations of danger or fights there are many reports of people seeing the world more slowly. So IMO the Kenbunshoku increases the user's speed as the world becomes slower for him.

That's why Luffy CONCENTRATED using Advanced Kenbunshoku, is as fast as Kaido using basic Kenbunshoku and pure speed.

Yamato's pure body speed is superior to Luffy's (without Gears), but Luffy equals her (who is practically as fast as Kaido) with advanced Kenbunshoku.

 

[XXGenesis]

Old Ray is not stronger than Kaido, so yeah, Old Ray keeping up with Kizaru scales to Kaido. The only way this isn't the case is if we find out Ray was using future sight.

And no, Kaido isn't faster. When Luffy was getting "blitzed" it was in non-snakeman, Luffy in snakeman had Kaido unable to do anything without future sight.

Sanji becoming invisible is a relative thing, if his opponent can't track his movement he will disappear, if they can, he will still be visible. Oda said Brook would win a foot race a long time ago

im lost as to what your point of view is anymore in terms of Speed, it seems to me you are power scailing without context.

Luffy is not faster than Kaido…..You keep bringing up Snakeman & Kaido ate Snakeman & Boro Blasted through Onigashima…..

You say Kaido isn’t faster without FS….Take FS away from Luffy he goes down again in 1 hit K.O from the beginning of the fight again.

Again Luffy has gotten Blitz’d in all his forms by Kaido. Even G5…..Kaido is fast. Luffy is close, Sanji has comparable imo.

 

[Nie Li]

Law had no awareness whatsoever of the bombs, it wasn't like it was part of his plan to blow up Big Mom. All he knew was that he was making his attack as big as possible. That's about as coincidental as it gets.

I'll quote you in this thread, plantbro.

The bit about the awareness is probably true, but the explosion at the bottom had nothing to do with the bombs either way nor was it coincidential.


Oda even showed us one of the bombs exploding to illustrate just how tiny their explosion was compared to the volcano Law created.

Here we see how 1 bomb's explosion is smaller than Onigashima.

Spoiler

The hole Law created is so deep, that even three of those bombs exploding wouldn't have caused an explosion big enough to reach the surface.

Spoiler

Not only that, the explosion (a volcanic eruption actually) is incomparably bigger than the tiny explosion caused by the bomb we saw go off. Just the part coming out of the hole is bigger than Onigashima itself.

Spoiler

This should be enough to convince someone but I'll go further. First regarding the fact that no bomb fell down on-panel.

Here we see Big Mom fall all alone, with none of the bombs. There is no panel showing any bomb falling down.

Spoiler

You may think one of those rocks looks "missile shaped" but.

1- There's smoke coming from deep below, just like an active volcano about to erupt.

2- The most dangerous bombs on Onigashima, whose explosion we have already seen is very small, look nothing like that.

Spoiler: Shape

3- The explosion comes from below Big Mom, not from upwards.

Spoiler

And one more piece of evidence: Law stating his sword had to go deeper when he had already pierced the ground's surface.

Spoiler

If he was just throwing Big Mom off Onigashima to get her out of the way, he could have activated his skill already even earlier than this. At the time of that panel he would already create a hole on Wano's surface, yet he insisted the hole had to be deeper even though he was enduring punches by Big Mom. I conclude that it was because the hole had to be deeper to cause that massive volcano eruption.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I'll quote you in this thread, plantbro.

The bit about the awareness is probably true, but the explosion at the bottom had nothing to do with the bombs either way nor was it coincidential.


Oda even showed us one of the bombs exploding to illustrate just how tiny their explosion was compared to the volcano Law created.

Here we see how 1 bomb's explosion is smaller than Onigashima.

Spoiler

The hole Law created is so deep, that even three of those bombs exploding wouldn't have caused an explosion big enough to reach the surface.

Spoiler

Not only that, the explosion (a volcanic eruption actually) is incomparably bigger than the tiny explosion caused by the bomb we saw go off. Just the part coming out of the hole is bigger than Onigashima itself.

Spoiler

This should be enough to convince someone but I'll go further. First regarding the fact that no bomb fell down on-panel.

Here we see Big Mom fall all alone, with none of the bombs. There is no panel showing any bomb falling down.

Spoiler

You may think one of those rocks looks "missile shaped" but.

1- There's smoke coming from deep below, just like an active volcano about to erupt.

2- The most dangerous bombs on Onigashima, whose explosion we have already seen is very small, look nothing like that.

Spoiler: Shape

3- The explosion comes from below Big Mom, not from upwards.

Spoiler

And one more piece of evidence: Law stating his sword had to go deeper when he had already pierced the ground's surface.

Spoiler

If he was just throwing Big Mom off Onigashima to get her out of the way, he could have activated his skill already even earlier than this. At the time of that panel he would already create a hole on Wano's surface, yet he insisted the hole had to be deeper even though he was enduring punches by Big Mom. I conclude that it was because the hole had to be deeper to cause that massive volcano eruption.

Idk man, I just have an entirely different reading of that whole scene from you. The first bomb going off was to establish how devastating it'd be for a ton of them to go off at once. This is chapters after the stakes being raised that Onigashima's bombs would basically level the entire Flower Capital. Then to follow it through with Law's sword coincidentally going through the bomb room specifically... it feels like a reach to suggest it's volcanic- nothing like that was suggested by... anything.

Also, "bomb shaped rock"? C'mon lol. He wanted it to be as deep as humanly possible so the hole Big Mom was falling in would be as difficult as possible for her to get out of. I seriously doubt Law's genius plan included lava from below the planet's crust.

 

[Nie Li]

Idk man, I just have an entirely different reading of that whole scene from you. The first bomb going off was to establish how devastating it'd be for a ton of them to go off at once. This is chapters after the stakes being raised that Onigashima's bombs would basically level the entire Flower Capital. Then to follow it through with Law's sword coincidentally going through the bomb room specifically... it feels like a reach to suggest it's volcanic- nothing like that was suggested by... anything.

Also, "bomb shaped rock"? C'mon lol. He wanted it to be as deep as humanly possible so the hole Big Mom was falling in would be as difficult as possible for her to get out of. I seriously doubt Law's genius plan included lava from below the planet's crust.

Well, we definitely saw none of the bombs falling neither before nor after Big Mom, so I could also say nothing like that was suggested by anything. In fact, I have already mentioned with visual proof in my previous post how everything points to the explosion having been volcanic and caused by Law, so if anything, the burden of proof is on it having been caused by bombs.

The "missile shaped rock" I referred to definitely looked nothing like the bombs, I only mentioned it because it's the only thing you could have mentioned that looks like a bomb falling down. What's "C'mon lol" about that? Do you believe that particular rock was a missile that somehow exploded below Big Mom with x10 times the explosive force of one of those bombs?

Anyway, if you don't agree after everything I said then I'm sure we won't reach an agreement on this topic, but even if we ignored the whole explosion thing, calling Big Mom's defeat a "coincidential win" as if it had been entirely random... sounds kind of unfair to Law and Kid, who managed to crush her bones even before throwing her down the hole.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Bro what took out big mum finally was the bomb it wasn’t law’s attack if that was law lmao he’s like another whole level compared to kid
The devastation of the bombs were compared by Yamato who said the bombs would annihilate onigashimi and kill them all if it goes off

 

[Nie Li]

Bro what took out big mum finally was the bomb it wasn’t law’s attack if that was law lmao he’s like another whole level compared to kid
The devastation of the bombs were compared by Yamato who said the bombs would annihilate onigashimi and kill them all if it goes off

What bomb?

We literally saw one explode and it was much smaller than the explosion that took out Big Mom. In fact, said explosion did nothing to her. We also saw no bombs fall nor did Yamato comment on any bomb falling.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Well, we definitely saw none of the bombs falling neither before nor after Big Mom, so I could also say nothing like that was suggested by anything. In fact, I have already mentioned with visual proof in my previous post how everything points to the explosion having been volcanic and caused by Law, so if anything, the burden of proof is on it having been caused by bombs.

The "missile shaped rock" I referred to definitely looked nothing like the bombs, I only mentioned it because it's the only thing you could have mentioned that looks like a bomb falling down. What's "C'mon lol" about that? Do you believe that particular rock was a missile that somehow exploded below Big Mom with x10 times the explosive force of one of those bombs?

Anyway, if you don't agree after everything I said then I'm sure we won't reach an agreement on this topic, but even if we ignored the whole explosion thing, calling Big Mom's defeat a "coincidential win" as if it had been entirely random... sounds kind of unfair to Law and Kid, who managed to crush her bones even before throwing her down the hole.

Oh we definitely won't reach an agreement for sure until we get back to Big Mom's pov. If there's no lava or whatever around her, then I'm definitely not even entertaining this idea.

I'm not ragging on Law and Kidd, they definitely put in the work above and beyond what anyone really expected. But these sorts of coincidental win conditions are ALL over One Piece, this wouldn't be out of place.

And again yeah I saw what you posted. I'm just reading it entirely differently. If there's no lava around Big Mom when we see her again, will you still believe it was a volcanic explosion?

 

[Nie Li]

Oh we definitely won't reach an agreement for sure until we get back to Big Mom's pov. If there's no lava or whatever around her, then I'm definitely not even entertaining this idea.

I'm not ragging on Law and Kidd, they definitely put in the work above and beyond what anyone really expected. But these sorts of coincidental win conditions are ALL over One Piece, this wouldn't be out of place.

And again yeah I saw what you posted. I'm just reading it entirely differently. If there's no lava around Big Mom when we see her again, will you still believe it was a volcanic explosion?

If next time we see Big Mom or the hole itself there's reason to believe it was not a volcanic explosion, or of course if anyone directly mentions the bombs having been involved, I'll definitely change my mind. Though if it comes to that I'll be genuinely confused about how it happened, as I really cannot interpret that from the panels even if I try to.

Where is the anime at? I don't watch it but it could shed some light on the topic.

 

[really_jonny]

Just read carefully the comics from chapters 1039 to 1040. There is no doubt in my mind that it was a volcanic eruption. In addition to the whole argument given by Lobo, where Big Mom just grabs a bomb (cap 1040 page 8) that explodes on the next page still on Onigashima in the trajectory of her being pushed by the Kid's technique. She didn't pull any other bombs, at most only another one in the shape of a missile dropped with her (as can be seen visually). Buuuut, it's totally clear that after Law's technique is completed, the crater begins to release dark smoke (visually volcanic ash) and "rumble" as if it were a volcano about to explode. Law's shockwave effect smokes are white and outside the super crater. All this is clearly confirmed, because before the explosion, Big Mom looks down, that is, TOGETHER ALL THE EXPLANATION IT IS OBVIOUS THAT IT WAS AN ERUPTION.

In the third comic, what do you think is this shiny thing she's looking at in the crater huh?

 

[Core D. Roy]

If next time we see Big Mom or the hole itself there's reason to believe it was not a volcanic explosion, or of course if anyone directly mentions the bombs having been involved, I'll definitely change my mind. Though if it comes to that I'll be genuinely confused about how it happened, as I really cannot interpret that from the panels even if I try to.

Where is the anime at? I don't watch it but it could shed some light on the topic.

Pretty much feel the same. I doubt Oda's even going to show the hole or Big Mom before she gets out of it, so it's going to be up to the anime to elucidate what actually happened, which.... getting tired of that happening in Wano tbh.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2022 ---

Just read carefully the comics from chapters 1039 to 1040. There is no doubt in my mind that it was a volcanic eruption. In addition to the whole argument given by Lobo, where Big Mom just grabs a bomb (cap 1040 page 8) that explodes on the next page still on Onigashima in the trajectory of her being pushed by the Kid's technique. She didn't pull any other bombs, at most only another one in the shape of a missile dropped with her (as can be seen visually). Buuuut, it's totally clear that after Law's technique is completed, the crater begins to release dark smoke (visually volcanic ash) and "rumble" as if it were a volcano about to explode. Law's shockwave effect smokes are white and outside the super crater. All this is clearly confirmed, because before the explosion, Big Mom looks down, that is, TOGETHER ALL THE EXPLANATION IT IS OBVIOUS THAT IT WAS AN ERUPTION.

In the third comic, what do you think is this shiny thing she's looking at in the crater huh?

Dude I've read that sequence like a hundred times and I ain't budging on this. Like a lot of stuff in Wano, there's been some unclear action in the panels that needs to be elucidated on by the anime. Hopefully with Oda's clarifications on what's happening here. Either way, if the manga cuts back to Big Mom and she's out of and away from the hole this argument's going to continue until we get whatever semi-canon anime content.

Best case scenario of seeing directly if Big Mom is in lava or something in the manga would be an SBS question directly asking.