One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[really_jonny]

Even if some scene of her appears far from volcanic lava, it won't confirm, in fact it would be even more coherent as her body would logically be thrown far away by the force of the explosion - at margin tens of miles away. Although if it was an explosive volcanic eruption it would have to have a plume... Ooh wait any kind of explosion would leave a huge smoke, but in the universe of manga and comics they just explode in flames and really end (no smoke effect afterwards).

Anyway, if the anime confirms it will have to be at the time of the explosion same.

 

[grey matter]

Kaidou and Big Mom are the immovable object and unstoppable force. Imo they've always meant to be portrayed as relative equals.

Big Mom being bombed out of the match by complete coincidence was Oda narrowing down the narrative focus to one antagonist, it wasn't something to be gauged against her as a peer to Kaidou.

We are getting into powerscaling territory though, so I'll see y'all over in that thread if you want to continue this particular conversation.

Don't think you will budge on this lol. Anyway, I'll provide my interpretation of Kaido vs BM

Portrayal:
Kaido and BM are portrayed to be close in power level. But Kaido has the advantage in portrayal.
Always bet on Kaido in a 1v1, strongest pirate (correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was referred to as this as well), strongest creature, Kaido claiming there is nobody alive who can take him down etc

Yes, Kaido vs BM happened off screen for many hours (or days)? But both came out of the fight unscathed. But, we do know that they have the power to damage each other, if the fight was indeed serious, they would be injured after the fight was over.
Look at Luffy (pre 5th gear) vs Kaido. Luffy was weaker than Kaido, yet managed to give Kaido injuries within a fight of like 5-10 minutes.
The fact that neither Kaido nor BM had any injuries post their offscreen fight suggest to me that they were just sparring. They do have somewhat of a sibling bond, so irrespective of their claims of "wanting to kill each other", IMO they didn't fight serious. But it is also a portrayal from Oda, that they are close in power level.
Now, I may be wrong, and they actually fought serious and them having no injuries was just ODa being inconsistent. We may never know, it comes down to perspective,


Feats:
Lets disregard the ending of BM vs Law + Kid. People have different interpretations all around - "was it bomb exploding, or was it volcano", "could Law + Kid have continued or not" etc
It still remains that everything until that point was already an extreme diff fight. Law + Kid took her to the very limits. Forced her to get serious in a way noone had forced her in decades, and eat up her lifespan to buff herself up. Injured her massively, broke her bones, did organ damage, got her cough up blood and scream in pain etc
If the argument is that BM would've won if she didn't fall down, I can understand where that's coming from. Still an extreme diff fight.
And, Kid + Law started the fight relatively injured, while BM was pretty much fresh (the rooftop Supernova fight was pretty much everyone attacking on Kaido).

Now lets look at Kaido's feats.
- Mid diff'd (almost) 9 scabbards, each of their member ranging from ~ YC2 level to high tobiroppo level, and having access to advanced armament haki.
- Lifted an island across the sea
- Took the brunt of the damage from supernovas in rooftop. Notable feats here included defeating G4 Luffy (round 1), tanking internal damage from Law, tanking Asura from Zoro who awakened advanced conqueror's
- Defeated Luffy who awakened advanced conqueror's (round 2) with mid-high diff
- Mid diff'd (almost) Yamato
- High-extreme diff'd a relatively fresh and stronger G4 Luffy (round 3)
- Seems to be fighting about equally with G5/awakened Luffy

The feats tell a completely different story than what portrayal tells us. Kaido is looking a lot more impressive here.

But ultimately, I place more value on portrayal from Oda; and hence assume Kaido and BM are closer than what the feats suggest.
So, if I have Kaido at 100 (overall), I have BM at say 97. Kaido wins with extreme diff.

I also wonder how the tone of the fight will be when Luffy beats Kaido. Will he have G5 last the entire time or eventually revert Luffy back into his non-awakened form.

Hey, I'm talking about Marineford WB lol.
Peak WB will probably mid-high diff Kaido, and old WB in meds will probably extreme diff Kaido IMO

The dude's conqueror's and observation haki were pretty much non existent in Marineford arc.

WB had non conclusive 1v1s against Kizaru and Aokiji.
And high-extreme diff'd Akainu.

But, what Kaido accomplished here seems more impressive to me.

Now, it is vert much likely that I'm underestimating Akainu, and when Akainu finally starts flexing I might eat my words.
But as things are standing now, I think Kaido's feats are much better than Marineford WB's

 

[really_jonny]

The fact that neither Kaido nor BM had any injuries post their offscreen fight suggest to me that they were just sparring. They do have somewhat of a sibling bond, so irrespective of their claims of "wanting to kill each other", IMO they didn't fight serious. But it is also a portrayal from Oda, that they are close in power level.
Now, I may be wrong, and they actually fought serious and them having no injuries was just ODa being inconsistent. We may never know, it comes down to perspective,

Oda should never have created this thing of mentioning fights that lasted several days.

It turns out that a lot of people think the characters didn't fight seriously. But I believe Big Mom only used 1 year of her life and wasn't injured for decades, because Kaido doesn't have the same AP as Law and Kid anyway. Kaido is not able to make Luffy squirt liters of blood with one blow, much less he would be able to make Big Mom spurt liters of blood. He also doesn't have the strength to crush her and break bones like Kid.

 

[McNuss]

Shirahoshi (&Megalo and all the Sea Kings)
Monkey D. Luffy
Kaido, Charlotte Linlin (&Prometheus, Hera & Napoleon), Monkey D. Garp, Sakazuki, Shanks, Marshall D. Teach
Kuzan (&Camel)
Borsalino, Issho
Silvers Rayleigh, Sengoku (new)
Roronoa Zoro, Trafalgar D. Water Law, Yamato
Charlotte Katakuri, Marco
Alber
Magellan
Eustass Kid
Killer, Charlotte Smoothie
Jinbe, Capone Bege (&the Firetank Pirates)
Vinsmoke Sanji, Donquixote Doflamingo
Queen, PX-0
Jack, Dorry, Broggy
Charlotte Cracker
Charlotte Perospero
Scratchmen Apoo, Ulti, Inuarashi, Nekomamushi, Ashura Doji, Kawamatsu
Vergo, Emporio Ivankov, Urouge
Pica
Charlotte Snack
X Drake, Who's Who, Smoker, Niwatori
Franky, Basil Hawkins, Black Maria (&Wanyudo), Charlotte Newshi (& his Decuplet Siblings)
Nico Robin, Sasaki
Cavendish (&Farul), Pekoms, Pedro, Shishilian
Brook, Sai, Page One
Charlotte Oven, Charlotte Daifuku, Aladine
Nami (& Zeus), Elizabello II, Kyros, Charlotte Bavarois
Monet, Caesar Clown, Nola, Charlotte Amande, Charlotte Custard (new)
Inbi, Fuga, Zanki, Jaki, Goki, Rokki, Nangi, Hatcha, Kunyun, Juki, Laboon, King Baum
Charlotte Citron, Charlotte Cinnamon, Roddy (new), Blackback (new), Giovanni (new) Concelot (new)
Trebol, Charlotte Brûlée
Bartolomeo, Kozuki Momonosuke (new)
Diamante, Inazuma
Tony Tony Chopper
Charlotte Opera, Charlotte Nusstorte (new)
Dellinger, Gladius, Senor Pink, Lao G, Charlotte Basskarte (new), Charlotte Dosmarche (new)
Bellamy, Charlotte Counter, Charlotte Cadenza, Charlotte Cabaletta, Charlotte Gala
PX-5, PX-7
Hannyabal, Sadi, Charlotte Mont-d'Or, Boa Sandersonia, Boa Marigold, Carrot (new), Wanda (new)
Hajrudin, Ideo, Blue Gilly, Hack, Jean Ango, Surume, Minotarurus, Minozebra, Minokoala, Minorhinoceros, Minochihuahua, Bobbin, Charlotte Galette, Charlotte Yuen, Charlotte Angel (new)
Baby 5, Stansen, Road, Goldberg, Gerd, Machvise, Kelly Funk (&Bobby Funk), Wadatsumi
Usopp, Chinjao, Buffalo, Albion, Fukaboshi, Charlotte Kato, Charlotte Tablet
Sugar, Neptune (&Hoe), Vander Decken IX, Charlotte Mondée (new), Charlotte Hachée (new), Charlotte Effilée (new)
Leo, Orlumbus, Ryuboshi, Manboshi, Charlotte Zuccotto (new), Charlotte Broyé (new)
Giolla, Perona, Ankoro
Suleiman, Gambia, Boo, Abdullah, Jeet, Dagama, Tank Lepanto, Riku Doldo III, Mummy, Meadows, Damask, Rolling Logan, Acilia, Spartan, Doughty, Gyro, Paulie, Charlotte Mascarpone, Charlotte Joscarpone, Yomo (new), Keith (new), Milky (new), Ran (new), Daisy (new), Cosmos (new), Rindo (new), Blue Fan (new), Kikyo (new), Poppy (new), Pansy (new), Kiku (new), Shion (new)
Rebecca, Viola, Nefeltari Vivi (&Karoo), Charlotte Flambe, Marguerite (new), Sweet Pea (new), Aphelandra (new)
Dalton, Kureha, Chaka, Pell, Braham, Kamakiri, Gan Fall (&Pierre), Charlotte Pudding (&Nitro and Rabyan)
Wapol, Shoujou, Peeply Lulu, Tilestone, Yokozuna, Charlotte Lola, Charlotte Chiffon, Belladonna (new), Enishida (new), Nerine (new)
Kyuin, Igaram, Genbo, Zambai, Iceburg (&Tyrannosaurus), Charlotte Mash
Kabu, Bian, Raki, Mozu, Kiwi, Diesel
Bomba, Ranpo
Inhel, Cotton, Wicca, Baxcon, Daikon, Flapper, Bobomba, Mauji, Nubon, Pellini, Chao, Eikon, Chicory, Tarara
Hatchan, Masira, Conis (&Su)
Pound
Mont Blanc Cricket, Zeff
Hammond, Kasagoba, Harisenbon, Koza
Demaro Black, Curly Dadan, Charlotte Cornstarch
Columbus, Bariete, Miyagi, Tristan, Monjii
Ucy, Agyo, Uhho
Hera, McKinley, Minister of the Right
Mr. 9, Miss Monday, Kiev, Tamagon, Risky Brothers
Patty, Carne, Boodle (&Chouchou), Farafra, Erik, Kokoro, Dogra, Magra, Ripper, Minister of the Left
Charlotte De-Chat, Charlotte Wiro, Charlotte Wafers, Charlotte Anglais, Rokkaku, Octopako
Johnny, Yosaku, Mounblutain, Genzo, Manjaro, Chocolat, Drip, Cocoa, Turco, Charlotte Anana, Gaimon (& Cocox, Usagihebi and Lionbuta), Matsuge
Disco, Gatz, Gancho, Mansherry, Grabar, Esta, Milo, Aremo Ganmi, Mukkashimi Tower, Tegata Ringana, Shin Detamaruka, Shin Jaiya, Hody Jones, Dosun, Zeo, Daruma, Ikaros Much, Hyouzou, Charlotte Dolce, Charlotte Dragée, Charlotte Normande, Woop Slap, Makino, Rika, Poro, Sarfunkel, Piiman, Tamanegi, Ninjin, Kaya, Merry, Nako, Nojiko, Chabo, Ipponmatsu, Ipponume, Kinderella, Nefertari Cobra, Terracotta, Maidy, Kappa, Toto, Amazon, Pagaya, Shandia Chief, Aisa, Tonjit (&Shelly), Chimney (&Gonbe), Bimine, Marumieta, Yamenahare, Shyarly, Camie (&Pappag), Ishilly, Kairen, Hiramera, Seira, Mero, Lulis, Adele, Fillonce, Sora, Junan, Den, Maria Napole, Gloriosa (new)
Mario, Nora Gitsune,
Ichika, Nika, Sanka, Yonka, Yonka Two

Pending: Crocus, Wyper, Charlotte Compote, Boa Hancock

Finished Mink Tribe and Kuja, also added more Charlottes and some others.

 

[Rmstorm]

Oda should never have created this thing of mentioning fights that lasted several days.

It turns out that a lot of people think the characters didn't fight seriously. But I believe Big Mom only used 1 year of her life and wasn't injured for decades, because Kaido doesn't have the same AP as Law and Kid anyway. Kaido is not able to make Luffy squirt liters of blood with one blow, much less he would be able to make Big Mom spurt liters of blood. He also doesn't have the strength to crush her and break bones like Kid.

Big Mom is just a trash fighter, it is what it is. She has massively weaker durability compared to kaido, bad fighting IQ, terrible at handling haki. Her being massively weaker in durability evidence was presented by Oda in the manga.

Example numer 1 -Big Mom got hurt by Kid using physical attacks without kid using haki. He failed to hurt Kaido.

Examplre number 2- Big Mom was forced to use armament haki and her bodyweight on regular Gear 4 Boundman(without advanced Haki) kong gun.

Kaido in chp. 923 took Luffy's Gear 4's WHOLE BARRAGE of attacks without haki.

That should already tell you the difference between them.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Don't think you will budge on this lol. Anyway, I'll provide my interpretation of Kaido vs BM

Portrayal:
Kaido and BM are portrayed to be close in power level. But Kaido has the advantage in portrayal.
Always bet on Kaido in a 1v1, strongest pirate (correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was referred to as this as well), strongest creature, Kaido claiming there is nobody alive who can take him down etc

Yes, Kaido vs BM happened off screen for many hours (or days)? But both came out of the fight unscathed. But, we do know that they have the power to damage each other, if the fight was indeed serious, they would be injured after the fight was over.
Look at Luffy (pre 5th gear) vs Kaido. Luffy was weaker than Kaido, yet managed to give Kaido injuries within a fight of like 5-10 minutes.
The fact that neither Kaido nor BM had any injuries post their offscreen fight suggest to me that they were just sparring. They do have somewhat of a sibling bond, so irrespective of their claims of "wanting to kill each other", IMO they didn't fight serious. But it is also a portrayal from Oda, that they are close in power level.
Now, I may be wrong, and they actually fought serious and them having no injuries was just ODa being inconsistent. We may never know, it comes down to perspective,


Feats:
Lets disregard the ending of BM vs Law + Kid. People have different interpretations all around - "was it bomb exploding, or was it volcano", "could Law + Kid have continued or not" etc
It still remains that everything until that point was already an extreme diff fight. Law + Kid took her to the very limits. Forced her to get serious in a way noone had forced her in decades, and eat up her lifespan to buff herself up. Injured her massively, broke her bones, did organ damage, got her cough up blood and scream in pain etc
If the argument is that BM would've won if she didn't fall down, I can understand where that's coming from. Still an extreme diff fight.
And, Kid + Law started the fight relatively injured, while BM was pretty much fresh (the rooftop Supernova fight was pretty much everyone attacking on Kaido).

Now lets look at Kaido's feats.
- Mid diff'd (almost) 9 scabbards, each of their member ranging from ~ YC2 level to high tobiroppo level, and having access to advanced armament haki.
- Lifted an island across the sea
- Took the brunt of the damage from supernovas in rooftop. Notable feats here included defeating G4 Luffy (round 1), tanking internal damage from Law, tanking Asura from Zoro who awakened advanced conqueror's
- Defeated Luffy who awakened advanced conqueror's (round 2) with mid-high diff
- Mid diff'd (almost) Yamato
- High-extreme diff'd a relatively fresh and stronger G4 Luffy (round 3)
- Seems to be fighting about equally with G5/awakened Luffy

The feats tell a completely different story than what portrayal tells us. Kaido is looking a lot more impressive here.

But ultimately, I place more value on portrayal from Oda; and hence assume Kaido and BM are closer than what the feats suggest.
So, if I have Kaido at 100 (overall), I have BM at say 97. Kaido wins with extreme diff.




Hey, I'm talking about Marineford WB lol.
Peak WB will probably mid-high diff Kaido, and old WB in meds will probably extreme diff Kaido IMO

The dude's conqueror's and observation haki were pretty much non existent in Marineford arc.

WB had non conclusive 1v1s against Kizaru and Aokiji.
And high-extreme diff'd Akainu.

But, what Kaido accomplished here seems more impressive to me.

Now, it is vert much likely that I'm underestimating Akainu, and when Akainu finally starts flexing I might eat my words.
But as things are standing now, I think Kaido's feats are much better than Marineford WB's

Marinefored WB was still the strongest pirate at the time. WB vs Kuzan/Kizaru were both such short encounters I'm not calling those fights. And yeah, he extreme diffed Akainu, that looks suspect ONLY when you abandon context. Whitebeard from a feat standpoint has BY FAR, AND I MEAN BY FAR! The best endurance in the manga, with overall the highest destructive capacity.

Whitebeard having non-existent CoO is grossly hyperbolic.

 

[grey matter]

Marinefored WB was still the strongest pirate at the time. WB vs Kuzan/Kizaru were both such short encounters I'm not calling those fights. And yeah, he extreme diffed Akainu, that looks suspect ONLY when you abandon context. Whitebeard from a feat standpoint has BY FAR, AND I MEAN BY FAR! The best endurance in the manga, with overall the highest destructive capacity.

Whitebeard having non-existent CoO is grossly hyperbolic.

IMO Old WB was called the strongest pirate only because everyone except his crewmates didn't know how bad his health was.
Normally, when anyone sees WB, he's either in his meds or not too much time out of his meds. So, they see the WB who has haki on par with Shanks, on top of his powerful devil fruit and insane brute strength.
But, the WB we saw in Marineford was off his meds for days. His conqueror's haki went from being on par with Shanks (arguably the best haki user alive), to basically non existent.
His observation haki went from allowing him to no diff Ace while lying on his bed sleeping, to getting stabbed by Sqaurdo when he was fully awaken and standing.
Marineford WB's endurance........debatable against Kaido's. On attack power, I agree, none of the Yonkos surpass him in that.


Why is that a hyperbole?
Old WB in meds has observation haki so strong that he can no diff Jinbe tiers (Ace when he joined) in his sleep.
But Marineford WB was stabbed by Sqardo, with the panels instantly shifting to Marco wondering how sick the dude is, cause normally he would dodge these cheap shots without breaking a sweat. Then he remembered that WB took off his meds, basically telling us (the viewers) that being off his meds for this long has weakened him a lot.
This followed with Crocodile getting pissed at how weakened WB got, with WB's monologue of "I can't be the strongest forever"


And anyway, like I said, I probably will change my tune once Akainu gets his feats. Akainu very well could be stronger than I give him credit for, but right now I don't consider him above any of the Yonkos (though it is possible by hype)
As of right now, Marineford WB's best feat, which is high-extreme diffing Akainu, doesn't put him over Kaido IMO.


My numbers on how I see overall power levels:
Kaido : 100 (normalized)
Old WB (in meds) : 105
Peak WB: 130
Old WB (off meds/Marineford): 92
Big Mom : 96

 

[john ellis]

Big Mom is just a trash fighter, it is what it is. She has massively weaker durability compared to kaido, bad fighting IQ, terrible at handling haki. Her being massively weaker in durability evidence was presented by Oda in the manga.

Example numer 1 -Big Mom got hurt by Kid using physical attacks without kid using haki. He failed to hurt Kaido.

Examplre number 2- Big Mom was forced to use armament haki and her bodyweight on regular Gear 4 Boundman(without advanced Haki) kong gun.

Kaido in chp. 923 took Luffy's Gear 4's WHOLE BARRAGE of attacks without haki.

That should already tell you the difference between them.

BM wasn’t forced to use Haki, She just did and blocked it, the attack did 0 damage, also kaido took minor damage, it’s likely BM would of taken minor damage if she didn’t use Haki and blocked it, however she chose not to take the minor damage

@grey matter tbh oda did hype akainu up saying he would of found the one piece in one year, a feat that not even luffy or the emperors managed, he’s also the fleet admiral and won a fight vs WB.... I don’t think it’s a stretch for him to be yonko level.

 

[McNuss]

Kid is overrated.

You can check this out by yourself with some little experiment.

You need solid fruit without a hard core like fresh kiwifruit, and a thick needle, if you don't have one, you can also use a knife.

Step 1: Punch the fruit. Not too much will happen, but since it is a kiwifruit and not Big Mom, it will probably have some damage.
Step 2: Take another fruit and pierce it with the needle/knife.
Step 3: Steer the needle/knife to mess up the fruit from the inside
Step 4: Punch the fruit. Splurrt!

Now compare the fruits and see what happened.

 

[Crimson Ice]

IMO Old WB was called the strongest pirate only because everyone except his crewmates didn't know how bad his health was.
Normally, when anyone sees WB, he's either in his meds or not too much time out of his meds. So, they see the WB who has haki on par with Shanks, on top of his powerful devil fruit and insane brute strength.
But, the WB we saw in Marineford was off his meds for days. His conqueror's haki went from being on par with Shanks (arguably the best haki user alive), to basically non existent.
His observation haki went from allowing him to no diff Ace while lying on his bed sleeping, to getting stabbed by Sqaurdo when he was fully awaken and standing.
Marineford WB's endurance........debatable against Kaido's. On attack power, I agree, none of the Yonkos surpass him in that.


Why is that a hyperbole?
Old WB in meds has observation haki so strong that he can no diff Jinbe tiers (Ace when he joined) in his sleep.
But Marineford WB was stabbed by Sqardo, with the panels instantly shifting to Marco wondering how sick the dude is, cause normally he would dodge these cheap shots without breaking a sweat. Then he remembered that WB took off his meds, basically telling us (the viewers) that being off his meds for this long has weakened him a lot.
This followed with Crocodile getting pissed at how weakened WB got, with WB's monologue of "I can't be the strongest forever"


And anyway, like I said, I probably will change my tune once Akainu gets his feats. Akainu very well could be stronger than I give him credit for, but right now I don't consider him above any of the Yonkos (though it is possible by hype)
As of right now, Marineford WB's best feat, which is high-extreme diffing Akainu, doesn't put him over Kaido IMO.


My numbers on how I see overall power levels:
Kaido : 100 (normalized)
Old WB (in meds) : 105
Peak WB: 130
Old WB (off meds/Marineford): 92
Big Mom : 96

That health shit doesn't fly when volume extras call him the strongest. This quote doesn't even use his title, The World's Strongest Man; this just calls him the strongest pirate.

Spoiler: Whitebeard is called the strongest pirate

Saying his CoO is non-existent is hyperbolic; it got worse, but saying it's non-existent is a gross exaggeration. Simply being able to perceive Kizaru means you have high-level CoC. What you described is his CoO getting worse, not is being non-existent.

Whitebeard's endurance far outclasses Kaido's. Whitebeard got stabbed through the chest, getting two holes blown through him, getting half of his face blown off and was still fighting. Kaido doesn't come close.

Like I said, using the Akainu fight is only a valid argument when you just throw context away.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

IMO Old WB was called the strongest pirate only because everyone except his crewmates didn't know how bad his health was.
Normally, when anyone sees WB, he's either in his meds or not too much time out of his meds. So, they see the WB who has haki on par with Shanks, on top of his powerful devil fruit and insane brute strength.
But, the WB we saw in Marineford was off his meds for days. His conqueror's haki went from being on par with Shanks (arguably the best haki user alive), to basically non existent.
His observation haki went from allowing him to no diff Ace while lying on his bed sleeping, to getting stabbed by Sqaurdo when he was fully awaken and standing.
Marineford WB's endurance........debatable against Kaido's. On attack power, I agree, none of the Yonkos surpass him in that.


Why is that a hyperbole?
Old WB in meds has observation haki so strong that he can no diff Jinbe tiers (Ace when he joined) in his sleep.
But Marineford WB was stabbed by Sqardo, with the panels instantly shifting to Marco wondering how sick the dude is, cause normally he would dodge these cheap shots without breaking a sweat. Then he remembered that WB took off his meds, basically telling us (the viewers) that being off his meds for this long has weakened him a lot.
This followed with Crocodile getting pissed at how weakened WB got, with WB's monologue of "I can't be the strongest forever"


And anyway, like I said, I probably will change my tune once Akainu gets his feats. Akainu very well could be stronger than I give him credit for, but right now I don't consider him above any of the Yonkos (though it is possible by hype)
As of right now, Marineford WB's best feat, which is high-extreme diffing Akainu, doesn't put him over Kaido IMO.


My numbers on how I see overall power levels:
Kaido : 100 (normalized)
Old WB (in meds) : 105
Peak WB: 130
Old WB (off meds/Marineford): 92
Big Mom : 96

That health shit doesn't fly when volume extras call him the strongest. This quote doesn't even use his title, The World's Strongest Man; this just calls him the strongest pirate.

Spoiler: Whitebeard is called the strongest pirate

Saying his CoO is non-existent is hyperbolic; it got worse, but saying it's non-existent is a gross exaggeration. Simply being able to perceive Kizaru means you have high-level CoC. What you described is his CoO getting worse, not is being non-existent.

Whitebeard's endurance far outclasses Kaido's. Whitebeard got stabbed through the chest, getting two holes blown through him, getting half of his face blown off and was still fighting. Kaido doesn't come close.

Like I said, using the Akainu fight is only a valid argument when you just throw context away.

Having the title the strongest man was won when he was younger and stronger and it was clear that whitebeard in his sick marineford form had declined severely
I think again that was a big theme that Oda that times were changing

heck everyone that knew him , crocodile ws severely disgusted by how much he had declined
Marco made several remarks
He couldn’t even use basic conquerors haki at will
With what I’ve seen of kaido and big mum I think it’s clear that he’s not the strongest at the time of marineford
Coc : gone
Coo : severely compromised ( went from no diffing ace to guys who are fodder in comparison to ace hitting him )
Stamina/endurance : his endurance was incredible but there were times even during the battle where he needed to kneel down and recover due to illness

so kaido could tank better and use all 3 haki better at that stage and yet it’s far fetched to beleive that kaido was stronger than marineford whitebeard
remeber so far to really put kaido on his ass you need advanced COC and whitebeard couldn’t use that anymore

 

[really_jonny]

Ace's novel gave canonical information about the Yonko. Not even at his peak WB had the gall to try to confront Kaido or Big Mom, it being revealed that if Yonkou faced each other they would both die. WB just kept his strongest man title, for the hype he had in the manga universe, during Marineford absolutely everyone noticed and Oda made a total point of demonstrating how weakened he was. In One Piece magazine, it is revealed that the legendary Garp has a lot of rivalry with Big Mom, he who is equal to Roger and WB. Randoms who are not even able to scratch Kaido and BM's skin, were able to cut WB normally.
Most of the attacks that WB suffered in Marineford would be ignored by Kaido and Big Mom, Akainu, on the other hand, I believe that he wouldn't even be able to penetrate their body, since Kaido and Big Mom have Kenbunshoku and know how to shield themselves from Koka (they did this to protect from Luffy G4's attacks), Jinbe managed to hold Akainu's magma with Haki.

Law's attacks even before Awakening applied to Kaido, would do much more damage to WB, as they also explode organs from within, and his awakening still multiplies the potency, e Big Mom endured. Law's giant rocks imbued with Koka, Kid's magnetic-force metallic attacks, Scabbards' attacks with Ryou, Luffy G4's attacks, Zoro's attacks far more powerful than his Dressrosa version capable of cutting through a massive rock statue the size of an island, burned twice by Boro Breath themselves, Luffy G5 attacks, Luffy G5 tearing him apart from the inside... Comparing this to the attacks that WB suffered in Marineford is a complete joke. And you still have to consider that Kaido and Big Mom have regenerative abilities.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Having the title the strongest man was won when he was younger and stronger and it was clear that whitebeard in his sick marineford form had declined severely
I think again that was a big theme that Oda that times were changing

heck everyone that knew him , crocodile ws severely disgusted by how much he had declined
Marco made several remarks
He couldn’t even use basic conquerors haki at will
With what I’ve seen of kaido and big mum I think it’s clear that he’s not the strongest at the time of marineford
Coc : gone
Coo : severely compromised ( went from no diffing ace to guys who are fodder in comparison to ace hitting him )
Stamina/endurance : his endurance was incredible but there were times even during the battle where he needed to kneel down and recover due to illness

so kaido could tank better and use all 3 haki better at that stage and yet it’s far fetched to beleive that kaido was stronger than marineford whitebeard
remeber so far to really put kaido on his ass you need advanced COC and whitebeard couldn’t use that anymore

read my spoiler. You arguing with the manga.

 

[really_jonny]

read my spoiler. You arguing with the manga.

If Whitebeard himself said he couldn't be the strongest in the world forever, and him being noticed by everyone and everything in Marineford as weakened... You're the one arguing with the manga.

You used a said of databook that ignores context.

 

[grey matter]

That health shit doesn't fly when volume extras call him the strongest. This quote doesn't even use his title, The World's Strongest Man; this just calls him the strongest pirate.

Spoiler: Whitebeard is called the strongest pirate

Saying his CoO is non-existent is hyperbolic; it got worse, but saying it's non-existent is a gross exaggeration. Simply being able to perceive Kizaru means you have high-level CoC. What you described is his CoO getting worse, not is being non-existent.

Whitebeard's endurance far outclasses Kaido's. Whitebeard got stabbed through the chest, getting two holes blown through him, getting half of his face blown off and was still fighting. Kaido doesn't come close.

Like I said, using the Akainu fight is only a valid argument when you just throw context away.

That's just perception of WB in arrival IMO. Reality was that he was weakened after being off his meds for days
Ok, his observation haki worsened a LOT, not non existent. Point still stands though, it was nowhere close to the level it was when he isn't off his meds for too long.

Endurance, ok. I can agree on it until Kaido shows something better.

What is the context though?
That he had a heart attack before the fight started? I mean, it kinda makes my point, doesn't it? He could no longer sustain strained fights for long.

Not even at his peak WB had the gall to try to confront Kaido or Big Mom, it being revealed that if Yonkou faced each other they would both die.

This isn't true though.
He didn't go to fight Kaido because Oden was already dead, so it's pointless.

WB's crew was stacked, even if you think peak WB was close in power level to Kaido (which shouldn't be the case, peak WB should be on another level).
They wouldn't face much issues facing Kaido's crew.
Marco > King
Vista, Jozu > Queen
Thatch ~ Queen (he was stronger than Ace who joined the crew, this Ace was as strong as Jinbe)
Blackbeard (pre fruit) : some Yonko commander level, strong enough to give Shanks a scar
11 Tobiroppo tiers with 6-16 division commanders
Like, just looking at the crew says WB pirates were on a completely different level.


The reason he didn't fight other Yonkos was because he had no interest in an empire. He fights only to protect his crewmates, he takes in islands under his territory only to give them security. It was mentioned several times in the manga that, if he wanted to, he could've taken the throne anytime he wished. Meaning, his and his crew's power was uncontested.

He didn't want to invade Kaido, because Oden was dead already, and WB would lose countless fodders in his crew in the fight even if he wins. WB don't consider his crewmates as foot soldiers to be sacrificed, so he didn't take the fight from which nothing would be gained for him but could lose several fodder crewmates.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you one of those who says there is a PK level apart from a Yonko level? Well, Peak WB is "PK level", why do you think he's close to Kaido?
Plus, the no2 of WB crew, Oden (should be comparable to peak Rayleigh by hype/portrayal), was strong enough to give Kaido a run for his money.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 6, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 6, 2022 ---

remeber so far to really put kaido on his ass you need advanced COC and whitebeard couldn’t use that anymore

Agree generally, but you can use a select few DF powers to also do that.

I'd argue that WB's devil fruit would be capable of doing this. It could do internal damage because of vibrations and such.
WB also seems to be awakened, because like Law applying his "room" to his sword, WB was able to apply the vibration "ball" to his weapon.

Regardless, I agree that Kaido > Marineford WB
Kaido will still need a high-extreme diff tho IMO

 

[really_jonny]

@grey matter

Search about "information about the yonkou in ace's novel".

I agree that there is a level above Yonko, in my tier list, I would put WB as High Emperor, above the current Yonkou (Mid Emperor). But just a higher level is not enough so much as to beat your opponent easily, so I don't believe WB at his peak would beat Kaido that easily. For me it's the same difference between an Admiral and a YC1, or a YC1 and a YC2. Like Doflamingo vs Katakuri, we know who wins, but Doffy's awakening is more versatile and has more range. Doffy can create barriers that withstand attacks from G3, so with awakening he could create barriers to defend himself from any attack from Katakuri. We know that Katakuri is stronger and would win, but Doffy provides some danger.

It is revealed that Oden has grown much stronger after his years of Piracy, and logically WB knew about this, that he would no longer be able to overpower Oden so easily. The whole balance thing between the Yonko can be sustained by the fact that they were all part of the same crew, Kaido was an apprentice, he was 21 years old and he was just a rookie, but he still had his prominence and WB knew his potential. What I mean here is that from the narrative, the Yonko knew each other's power level.

I agree that WB's crew is superior, he was the most successful Yonko in piracy (official), perhaps he had the biggest empire and fortune. His crew was more powerful. Would win Kaido or BM in a war. But he from Marineford, he was no longer the Strongest Man in the World, he was old and sick, I think he would lose a war against Kaido, since the Yonko themselves individually are 50% of the crew's strength.

Anyway. I have this line of reasoning:

1 - Context
2 - Narrative
3 - Shown
4 - Said (catch phrases and hyperboles)

Context overlaps the narrative and narrative overlaps what is shown. As shown in the manga and sayings, it implies that a supposed Prime WB is much more powerful than any Yonko, the narrative says: "oops calm down there, he is more powerful but not that much". Sayings and narratives often ignore the context, which is usually more presented by the one shown, and the context in Marineford we saw, he was very sick, weakened, not being able to use his Haki well.

Shown also overlaps the sayings, which are often catchphrases to give hype, these appear both in the manga and even more in databook or other official sources. For example, the redhead pirates are too much afraid to confront the WB pirates, when in the manga we saw Shanks confront WB without fear. But that doesn't mean that all the information from these sources is useless, you just have to learn to separate the hyperboles.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

@grey matter

Search about "information about the yonkou in ace's novel".

I agree that there is a level above Yonko, in my tier list, I would put WB as High Emperor, above the current Yonkou (Mid Emperor). But just a higher level is not enough so much as to beat your opponent easily, so I don't believe WB at his peak would beat Kaido that easily. For me it's the same difference between an Admiral and a YC1, or a YC1 and a YC2. Like Doflamingo vs Katakuri, we know who wins, but Doffy's awakening is more versatile and has more range. Doffy can create barriers that withstand attacks from G3, so with awakening he could create barriers to defend himself from any attack from Katakuri. We know that Katakuri is stronger and would win, but Doffy provides some danger.

It is revealed that Oden has grown much stronger after his years of Piracy, and logically WB knew about this, that he would no longer be able to overpower Oden so easily. The whole balance thing between the Yonko can be sustained by the fact that they were all part of the same crew, Kaido was an apprentice, he was 21 years old and he was just a rookie, but he still had his prominence and WB knew his potential. What I mean here is that from the narrative, the Yonko knew each other's power level.

I agree that WB's crew is superior, he was the most successful Yonko in piracy (official), perhaps he had the biggest empire and fortune. His crew was more powerful. Would win Kaido or BM in a war. But he from Marineford, he was no longer the Strongest Man in the World, he was old and sick, I think he would lose a war against Kaido, since the Yonko themselves individually are 50% of the crew's strength.

Anyway. I have this line of reasoning:

1 - Context
2 - Narrative
3 - Shown
4 - Said (catch phrases and hyperboles)

Context overlaps the narrative and narrative overlaps what is shown. As shown in the manga and sayings, it implies that a supposed Prime WB is much more powerful than any Yonko, the narrative says: "oops calm down there, he is more powerful but not that much". Sayings and narratives often ignore the context, which is usually more presented by the one shown, and the context in Marineford we saw, he was very sick, weakened, not being able to use his Haki well.

Shown also overlaps the sayings, which are often catchphrases to give hype, these appear both in the manga and even more in databook or other official sources. For example, the redhead pirates are too much afraid to confront the WB pirates, when in the manga we saw Shanks confront WB without fear. But that doesn't mean that all the information from these sources is useless, you just have to learn to separate the hyperboles.

Truth was if WB was about it he could have liberated wano lmao , it was kinda plot cause from what we’ve seen whitebeard and his Allie’s are stronger
I think WB objectively had stronger commanders with ace thatch Blackbeard Marco vista and jozu in the tuck
And the talk of WB always avenging his comrades but now two occasions he’s passed on it , both with good reason but still

I think. A better excuse was then clashing would have thrown the world outta balance , make the marines and other yonkou move

 

[M3J]

Ace's novel gave canonical information about the Yonko. Not even at his peak WB had the gall to try to confront Kaido or Big Mom, it being revealed that if Yonkou faced each other they would both die. WB just kept his strongest man title, for the hype he had in the manga universe, during Marineford absolutely everyone noticed and Oda made a total point of demonstrating how weakened he was. In One Piece magazine, it is revealed that the legendary Garp has a lot of rivalry with Big Mom, he who is equal to Roger and WB. Randoms who are not even able to scratch Kaido and BM's skin, were able to cut WB normally.
Most of the attacks that WB suffered in Marineford would be ignored by Kaido and Big Mom, Akainu, on the other hand, I believe that he wouldn't even be able to penetrate their body, since Kaido and Big Mom have Kenbunshoku and know how to shield themselves from Koka (they did this to protect from Luffy G4's attacks), Jinbe managed to hold Akainu's magma with Haki.

Law's attacks even before Awakening applied to Kaido, would do much more damage to WB, as they also explode organs from within, and his awakening still multiplies the potency, e Big Mom endured. Law's giant rocks imbued with Koka, Kid's magnetic-force metallic attacks, Scabbards' attacks with Ryou, Luffy G4's attacks, Zoro's attacks far more powerful than his Dressrosa version capable of cutting through a massive rock statue the size of an island, burned twice by Boro Breath themselves, Luffy G5 attacks, Luffy G5 tearing him apart from the inside... Comparing this to the attacks that WB suffered in Marineford is a complete joke. And you still have to consider that Kaido and Big Mom have regenerative abilities.

In the novel? I've not read that but the manga states that if two Emperors fought each other, or the Marines, the winner would very likely lose to the next opponent who isn't as strong because of the damage they took.

Whitebeard in Marineford was also sick and very close to death to the point that he had chest pains trying to use CoC to save Ace. Comparing that Whitebeard, who still took damage after damage and continued to fight, to Kaidou and Big Mom, who are healthier, makes no sense.

 

[JStackz26]

I lost my post but basically I was saying that given the outcomes of Wano so far, and compared to Marineford (which happened to recently come up), we have Queen and King. So look at this, when Jozu and Marco fought Kizaru and Aokiji they lost focus for a moment and got easily defeated. So now look at this here. Sanji sent Queen flying off the island and Zoro defeated King. I have to mention Sanji sent him flying because that's how much stronger Sanji showed himself to be. Where I'd say you have to basically put him on YC1 level. And remember Sanji was fighting Queen for a long while, plus he did face off with both of them briefly.

Anyway my thing is when do we get to the talks that Zoro and Sanji can go toe to toe with Admirals now?

The thing that really confuses me in One Piece is well if we still have some ways to go and Luffy can defeat Kaido then I mean how does Oda even set up Luffy's opponents now.

Also, I may get proven wrong in the future but maybe it is also time we stop talking about Zoro being close to Luffy. If you compare Whitebeard, and I know Zoro aims to surpass Mihawk, and Marco well Marco said none of them could ever catch him like Squard did. So that includes Marco. In other words Whitebeard is leagues ahead of ahead of Marco. Compare what a dying Whitebeard did to Akainu vs Marco and Akainu. It really is off that people really believe the comparison is actually Luffy and Zoro rather than Sanji and Zoro. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs honestly. Look at King and Kaido. There is a huge gap between them. The idea that Luffy and Zoro would on par with each other is ridiculous. They mention the Zoro Captain thing but Yamato got it as well. And Kaido was just doing a quick morning jog to defeat Yamato. The gaps Oda is depicting are huger than people want to admit. It really is a thing where Zoro is more an equal to Sanji than Luffy. Although it varies. I get Whiskey Peak they were depicted as even. And I even get that Whole Cake Island shows Sanji would not give Luffy a real challenge if Luffy were fresh and serious. Which sucks because I do wish Oda would keep those 3 in league with each other. Although technically he is, as Oda has just basically told us that Sanji best someone above some of the Supernova. But I mean, those 3 should be treated as that 3 headed beast even with Luffy far superior. I hope Oda doesn't start to go back to neglecting Sanji's power levels. I'm still confused why we haven't seen any of Sanji and Ivankov's timeskip yet. There better be some secret non newkama, okama stuff Ivankov taught Sanji that Oda is saving up. We saw Sanji senses Luffy in his sleep and that is because Sanji was apparently on the run from for 2 years. Similar to how Luffy had his eyes bandaged and was sensing animals. Could mean he'll get future sight. But I mean it is kind of bland since Luffy already has that form of CoO. Conqueror's Haki stuff is different because the ability itself and not just the advanced levels are not common. CoO is a bland ability. Not because it is stupid but only because people are more into the big flashy attacks stuff. Just like how in Naruto they eventually ditched the Genjutsu stuff for just overpowered stuff. People want to see the real action stuff. In this fight Oda had Kaido use future sight twice. When it was introduced, Katakuri used it the entire fight. Of course Kaido doesn't have much need for it. But he really only used it once. And interesting Oda used Kaido to hype Zoro with Big Mom telling him to dodge and then slipped it to us that Kaido's CoO is not worse than Big Mom's when he pulled the future sight. But even so like outside of future sight like what can Oda really do with Sanji as a CoO specialist. Ultra Instinct is cool in DBZ and this is like that but I'm on the bandwagon of might as well give Sanji a more offensive ability. I hope he gets a CoC ability. No to equal Zoro but so he's even more powerful amongst the stronger pirates.

I can watch Wano and see all the big attacks and not just want Sanji getting super destructive abilities. And I hope he gets something look range eventually. I'm less dissatisfied with Sanji's portrayal than I was prior to the Queen battle but I am still weary. I mean me personally I see.things as Luffy, Zoro and Sanji are like Yusuke, Heie and Kurama (and in that order they really are in personality) or Gon, Killua and Kurapika. Of course DBZ failed to establish a number 3. But I sure hope Oda does not slack on Sanji and start Piccoloing or Gohaning him. Have him just fade out to the end. We thought Gohan would start being a heavy feature than they were just like nope. Back to Goku and Vegeta and let's give them God Powers. Lets leave Gohan out. No Gotenks. Ichigo was basically always a one man show. I guess the Naruto trio was basically Naruto, Sasuke and Kakashi, even though Sakura stepped up to the end. I just get weary of my guy suffering the same fate. Back to HxH real briefly, I am still miffed (although the writer is very unwell so this is not that) about how for some reason Leorio was just left out of everything. Kurapika got her own thing capturing a crew leader and very powerful fighter. Gon and Killua fought the Royal Guard. Leorio, barely knows nen. The character neglect. HxH he is the 4th main character so its weird to have him like Usopp. One Piece you have the monster trio, but you have even more weaker members where it isn't just one guy who is weaker than the rest.

Anyway that stuff right there with Leorio is what hope Oda doesn't do to Sanji.

So anyway how do people feel about Sanji and Zoro taking on admirals at this point? Confident, not confident?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 7, 2022 ---

Ok when I post it isn't to offset other people's discussion topic. Just imparting thoughts. Also, it seems people on and off the web believe because I have opinions and thoughts about One Piece that it suddenly makes my personally life open for discussion. Almost as if they're unaware my life isn't actually a fictional story and the stuff I am talking about is my real life, for example my wife being a real person and me not telling a made up story or non fiction story. But actually speaking about matters that are of the actual plane of reality. I have no clue who put this perception out that I am writing a story. But my guess is that whomever did it, did so with the intention of trying to convince people my relationship with my wife is imaginary. They over here talking about I should sell my personal life for money. They think they'slick. First off they did some shady crap and I found out. They figured I wouldn't. They'd been trying to convince legal authorities my relationship was imaginary. And stole all mine and my wife's privacy in the process. So now I should sell my privacy so they could be off the hook for the scam they all ran, then secretly profit off the exclusives of mine and her privacy they stole. In other words they believe I should betray my wife & sell her privacy. Social media really messed up these people's head.

So now what I was saying about the manga One Piece is that the people saying Sanji can't have Conqueror's Haki because his dream is the All Blue may really be off the mark about it. Oda actually gave us a couple examples outside of Whiteboard.
All Blue is a Legendary Sea. Basically a treasure too.
Chinjao and his treasures And what is Luffy trying to find? Laugh Take. A place actually. Just like the All Blue is a place.
And this whole series talks about dreams. The age of Pirates and Dreams. So Sanji seeking a Legendary Sea, how does it make him less worthy of being a Conqueror. Especially when it is a dream goal for those people of his kind.
Furthermore people are really missing another thing here. Shanks and Mihawks rivalry. You may think that means Zoro and Luffy since one is world's strongest swordsman and the other a Yonko. But have they ever really showed Luffy and Zoro to vr much of rivals?
Zoro's rival equivalent is Sanji. That was shown post timeskip with the Pacifista. It was Zoro and Sanji who teamed up to take it down. Killer is not his rival either. Just his supernova equivalent as in being the only two non Captain Supernovas. There is a reason Oda had Sanji ask Zoro to kill Sanji if anything. It further denotes a rivalry. And Zoro's reaction also indicates as much. So if you consider that Sanji's rival is someone seeking to be the World's Strongest Swordsman then, him having Conqueror's Haki isn't ridiculous. I mean have you noticed that Oda hasn't given Zoro a real swordsman rival. Again Migawk has his rival already. Mihawk isn't the rival to Zoro. Clearly the King vs Queen battle each covering the other's back indicates this also. Point being he is up there with the top tiers and we will probably see that in his next major fight. And consider that he fought Queen and King simultaneously without his power up in base form. In other words the Sanji currently could have probably do what Marco did. Albeit for maybe a shorter time. Zoro a bit different not because of power but land to air. But if it was king and Queen on land, same.

 

[XXGenesis]

StrawHa	Luffy	Zoro	Sanji	Jimbei
Power	9	8.5	7.5	7
Speed	8.5	7.5	8	6
Durability	8.5	6	8	6.5
Stamina	9	8	6.5	7
Skill	8.5	8	7.5	7.5
Haki	9	8	6	6.5
Overall	52.5/60	46/60	43.5/60	40.5/60

Law/Kidd Pirates	Law	Kidd	Killer
Power	9	8.5	7
Speed	8.5	7.5	7
Durability	7	7	5.5
Stamina	8	9	7
Skill	9	8	7.5
Haki	7	7	5
Overall	48.5/60	47/60	39/60

Beast Pirates	Kaido	Yamato	King	Queen	Jack
Power	9.5	8	8	7	6.5
Speed	9	7.5	7.5	5.5	5
Durability	9	7	9.5	8.5	7.5
Stamina	10	9	7	6.5	7.5
Skill	9	7.5	7	6.5	6
Haki	9.5	8	6	6	6
Overall	56/60	47/60	45/60	40/60	38/60

Big Mom Pirates	Big Mom	Katakuri	Cracker	PerosPero
Power	9	7.5	7	6.5
Speed	7.5	9	7	6
Durability	10	6	8	6
Stamina	10	7.5	4	6
Skill	9	8.5	6.5	8
Haki	9	8	7	5
Overall	54.5/60	46.5/60	39.5/60	37.5/60

WBP	PWB/OWB	Marco	Ace	Vista	Jozu
Power	11/9	8	8	7.5	7
Speed	9/7.5	8	7.5	7.5	6
Durability	7.5	10	7	6	9
Stamina	11	7	7	6	7
Skill	10/9	8	7.5	8	6
Haki	11/8	7	7.5	7	6
Overall	59;52/60	48/60	44.5/60	42/60	41/60

**Prime & Old White Beard

My look on Commanders & Yonkou’s.
I view the Top commanders; 1st Mates to all be relatively close in power with different varying skills.

*Yes I do believe Kaido is stronger than Big Mom. Yonkou don’t fight because it’s a stalemate they don’t fight because they suspect another world power interfering while they are battle worn.