One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

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[XXGenesis]

Luffy was tanking Yonko level hits head on and still coming at Kaido by the end of their fight... come on now

This.

 

[Fox666]

And then even after acquiring WB's fruit we saw how senguku basically fought BB and his entire crew.

It seems the Blackbeard Pirates were handling both Sengoku and Garp

Also half of the Marine forces were sent after the Blackbeard Pirates

 

[kkck]

It seems the Blackbeard Pirates were handling both Sengoku and Garp

Also half of the Marine forces were sent after the Blackbeard Pirates

Probably? I don't see how that helps BB's case. In wano the implication was that either kaido or big mom were essentially strong enough to overpower the enemy army on their own barring the leaders. it's a pretty hard sell that sengoku and garp were at that point on the level with yonko.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Hmmm after the war Blackbeard does run away against just akainu , he’s really not that guy

Plus we also saw how easily whitebeard still defeated him

 

[albertwv]

Luffy even in G5 does not have the same durability and stamina as Kaido does. Just because Luffy was the victor of this fight does NOT mean he can do what Kaido did in regards of strength and power or defense. Winning a battle is not always due to being stronger. That is what you guys are failing to see in these two battles of Yonkos.
Even in WB's defeat, he was severely handicapped, that is why Akainu was able to land a powerful blow.
Oda has repeatedly shown us, limiting a Yonko for them to lose in a somewhat logical explanation.
Luffy could probably NOT handle Zolo's Asura demon slash like Kaido did, or handle all of the 9RS attacks.
Kaido's durability is not equal to Luffy's.

 

[XXGenesis]

Luffy even in G5 does not have the same durability and stamina as Kaido does. Just because Luffy was the victor of this fight does NOT mean he can do what Kaido did in regards of strength and power or defense. Winning a battle is not always due to being stronger. That is what you guys are failing to see in these two battles of Yonkos.
Even in WB's defeat, he was severely handicapped, that is why Akainu was able to land a powerful blow.
Oda has repeatedly shown us, limiting a Yonko for them to lose in a somewhat logical explanation.
Luffy could probably NOT handle Zolo's Asura demon slash like Kaido did, or handle all of the 9RS attacks.
Kaido's durability is not equal to Luffy's.

How is Zoro’s Ashura attack stronger than any of Kaido’s Thunder Bagua & it’s many variations???

The Scabbards attacks are not comparable to even the effectiveness of the Supernova…Yet alone Kaido.

 

[Sogeking sama]

The Straw Hat crewmembers are Yonko commander level after their fights in Onigashima and the new joiners like Jinbe and Yamato. They will be soon reaching the level of the Red Hair Pirates which are the most balanced crew as per the Marines = strongest crew within the Yonko. It doesn’t mean that Shanks was the strongest Yonko (Kaido was) but his commanders were likely in average the strongest among all the other Yonko’s crewmembers.

Put aside top 3 YC for every Yonkou. YC level is too broad. Kaido YC (tobbi roppo) was a joke, they can't even handle cp0. BM YC (perospero, oven, daifuku) was a threat. Let alone WB YC (vizta, izo cs)

I don't think shp is at YC level already. Put them to fight another yonkou, top 5 (luffy, zoro, sanji, jinbe, yamato) can handle it but the rest will be death. Shp wasn't that balance if you think about it.

Luffy vs BM
Zoro vs Kata
Yamato vs Smoothie
Sanji vs Cracker
Jinbe vs Snack

The rest can't handle perospero, oven, daifuku

Let alone if you compare it with WB YC, even in bad shape izo can beat cp0 elite agent, when brook (strongest with franky beside top 5) run from cp0. izo wasn't even WB main commanders, so let's assume another WB YC at least also at izo's level, WB had 11-12 another YC like izo, then besides top 5, the rest of shp won't survive.

Usopp and nami can't even finish off their enemy correctly and they're already death if it wasn't bcs of tama & BM
Robin can't beat black maria without brook's help (who froze black maria's net & destroy black maria's main weapon that can easily burn robin to death)

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Well Strawhats are quite overpowered now. Luffy who's stronger than a Yonkou. Zoro who gives Yonkou chills. Yamato who can trade blows with a Yonkou. Wonder who they take on next.. Marines doesnt sound too scary now if they have Kidd, Law, new generation and SH alliance helping out.

Zoro is not giving yonkou vibes lmao , he’s strong as hell but he’s nowhere’s close
He’s at YC1 level , max YC1+
also luffy isn’t “stronger” than a yonkou , kaido for the most part still had more stamina , durability than luffy , he beat him fair and square thrice
A fresh 1 v 1 , luffy might lose extreme difficulty still

 

[grey matter]

Put aside top 3 YC for every Yonkou. YC level is too broad. Kaido YC (tobbi roppo) was a joke, they can't even handle cp0. BM YC (perospero, oven, daifuku) was a threat. Let alone WB YC (vizta, izo cs)

"YC" are the top 3 of BM pirates and beast pirates. The rest are not commanders.
Tobiroppo aren't Yonko commanders. They are executives.

Also, the reason the BM executives felt threatening was because they weren't facing weaker opponents than the Tobiroppo were.

Only Whitebeard had several commanders, 16.
But even in his crew, there were just five (Marco, Ace, Vista, Jozu, Thatch) who are treated and built different from the rest. They would be the "Yonko commanders", if WB had a structure similar to BM or Kaido.
The commander 6-16 (such as Izo) are moreso in line with the executives of BM/Kaido. Stronger? Likely, especially if we're scaling them all to Izo. But still somewhat comparable IMO.

I don't think shp is at YC level already. Put them to fight another yonkou, top 5 (luffy, zoro, sanji, jinbe, yamato) can handle it but the rest will be death. Shp wasn't that balance of you think about it.

Luffy vs BM
Zoro vs Kata
Yamato vs Smoothie
Sanji vs Cracker
Jinbe vs Snack

The rest can't handle perospero, oven, daifuku

Zoro can leave Katakuri to Sanji and join Luffy to finish off BM fast. Sanji at this point is strong enough to definitely give Katakuri an extreme diff.
Yamato and Jinbe can 2v3 Smoothie, Cracker and Snack.

The equivalent of Yonko executives for SHP are Franky, Robin and Brook. So, you're incorrect in claiming that there aren't people who can't handle Perospero, Oven etc.
They can handle three executives by themselves.

And lets not forget the Grand Fleet. The Grand Fleet basically has two Supernovas in Cavendish (Hakuba) and Bartalomeo. The Grand Fleet also has Don Chinjao and Don Sai.
Hakuba was so strong that he no diff'd a pretty strong executive from Doflamingo's crew. (In before anyone brings in Robin, she kinda countered him and there was like 1km distance between them which gave Robin time to react)
Bartalomeo is Bartalomeo, whose DF give him broken defence, and also a offence which cannot be broken.
Don Chinjao was close to G3 Luffy in Dresrossa arc, and Don Sai scales to that level. I suppose Don Chinjao will only get weaker as time progresses, but Don Sai is still getting stronger.
These three (Cavendish, Bartalomeo, Sai) aren't getting stopped by Yonko Executives, if they kept up with the power creep. They would need commanders to be put down.

And this is not even considering other notable figures such as 6 giants, Bellamy etc, who also could have improved in PL.

Adding Grand Fleet, which would constitute the entire SHP, would mean that a fight between BMP and SHP would be a convincing win for the SHP.

Let alone if you compare it with WB YC, even in bad shape izo can beat cp0 elite agent, when brook (strongest with franky beside top 5) run from cp0. izo wasn't not even WB main commanders, so let's assume another WB YC at least also at izo's level, WB had 11-12 another YC like izo, then besides top 5, the rest of shp won't survive.

Whitebeard Pirates are on another level. There is a reason they were stated to have ruled the sea for 20 years.
SHP will take another arc to get on that level.

Just because SHP aren't on that level, doesn't mean that they aren't on the level of a typical "Yonko crew".
The Strawhat pirates, collectively, are for sure stronger than Beast Pirates and BM pirates

 

[Franz]

Put aside top 3 YC for every Yonkou. YC level is too broad. Kaido YC (tobbi roppo) was a joke, they can't even handle cp0. BM YC (perospero, oven, daifuku) was a threat. Let alone WB YC (vizta, izo cs)

Sorry, but it seems to me the opposite, the guy with the bowler hat defeated Drake with ease

The rest can't handle perospero, oven, daifuku

Robin and Franky easily beat Sasaki and Black Maria ... I wouldn't say so.

 

[Sogeking sama]

"YC" are the top 3 of BM pirates and beast pirates. The rest are not commanders.
Tobiroppo aren't Yonko commanders. They are executives.

Also, the reason the BM executives felt threatening was because they weren't facing weaker opponents than the Tobiroppo were.

Only Whitebeard had several commanders, 16.
But even in his crew, there were just five (Marco, Ace, Vista, Jozu, Thatch) who are treated and built different from the rest. They would be the "Yonko commanders", if WB had a structure similar to BM or Kaido.
The commander 6-16 (such as Izo) are moreso in line with the executives of BM/Kaido. Stronger? Likely, especially if we're scaling them all to Izo. But still somewhat comparable IMO.



Zoro can leave Katakuri to Sanji and join Luffy to finish off BM fast. Sanji at this point is strong enough to definitely give Katakuri an extreme diff.
Yamato and Jinbe can 2v3 Smoothie, Cracker and Snack.

The equivalent of Yonko executives for SHP are Franky, Robin and Brook. So, you're incorrect in claiming that there aren't people who can't handle Perospero, Oven etc.
They can handle three executives by themselves.

And lets not forget the Grand Fleet. The Grand Fleet basically has two Supernovas in Cavendish (Hakuba) and Bartalomeo. The Grand Fleet also has Don Chinjao and Don Sai.
Hakuba was so strong that he no diff'd a pretty strong executive from Doflamingo's crew. (In before anyone brings in Robin, she kinda countered him and there was like 1km distance between them which gave Robin time to react)
Bartalomeo is Bartalomeo, whose DF give him broken defence, and also a offence which cannot be broken.
Don Chinjao was close to G3 Luffy in Dresrossa arc, and Don Sai scales to that level. I suppose Don Chinjao will only get weaker as time progresses, but Don Sai is still getting stronger.
These three (Cavendish, Bartalomeo, Sai) aren't getting stopped by Yonko Executives, if they kept up with the power creep. They would need commanders to be put down.

And this is not even considering other notable figures such as 6 giants, Bellamy etc, who also could have improved in PL.

Adding Grand Fleet, which would constitute the entire SHP, would mean that a fight between BMP and SHP would be a convincing win for the SHP.



Whitebeard Pirates are on another level. There is a reason they were stated to have ruled the sea for 20 years.
SHP will take another arc to get on that level.

Just because SHP aren't on that level, doesn't mean that they aren't on the level of a typical "Yonko crew".
The Strawhat pirates, collectively, are for sure stronger than Beast Pirates and BM pirates

First of all, I responded to the comment that said "shp crewmates at YC level"

So we talk about crewmates here, not alliance..

Maybe franky & brook can handle oven & daifuku, but I can't see anyone who can handle perospero.

But, if we talk about alliances, yeah they even can wreck navy, let alone just BM or Kaido pirates.

Like my comment here

Unless if shp really get help from kid, law, marco & akazaya. Maybe it will secure their victory if they only fight navy without WG help (WG full power still unknown, IM, gorosei, cp0, their new weapen that subtitue shicibukai, etc) and if they fight smart & logically.

Luffy, kid, law beat akainu
Zoro, killer beat fujitora
Marco, sanji beat kizaru
Yamato, jinbe beat greenbull
Akazaya can easily handle vice admiral
The rest of shp & alliances easily handle captains and fodders

But we know it will not became that way, it will became 1 vs 1, so they still not ready to fight navy with their idealism (fair fight 1 vs 1), let alone if they fight navy+WG

Bcs we know navy is stronger than any yonkou's crew.

Navy > wb > kaido = BM (we talk about overall strength here, not only depends on some of strong guy).

Shanks & BB's crew strength still unknown. But I don't think they surpass navy (fleet admiral (sengoku) & their legend (garp) didn't even need to join the battle but wb still got a big loss. But yeah, in this era most likely those 2 won't join the war again)

In another hand shp alliances is at different league. Put aside kid, killer & marco who wasn't became their official alliance yet. They still have law & 9 akazaya, it's like 9 peoples at 3rd-4th YC level.

And put aside hakuba who will just became problem & slaughter many of our friends if robin/bartho isn't around. They still have Bartho who can easily toying with vice admiral. Tons of minks with sulong & tons of samurai from legendary land. Tons of dwarfs who can silently kill an armies without them noticing it. Several giants (even BM trying hard to get that power for her crew). Don chinjao a legend with CoC (althouth it seems he won't participated in the war). Sai who is stronger than chinjao. Etc.

Shp alliances is at different league.

So, If we talk about shp alliances I think everyone know shp alliances can wreck every yonkou crew, even navy, but we talk about shp crewmates here

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Hmmmm the term yonkou commander refers to usually the 3 top commanders in a yonkou crew in power and some times authority, it’s based on the 3 calamities of the beast pirates and 3 sweet commanders of the big mum pirates
There are broken into 3 usually
YC1 : Marco , Katakuri , King , some guys also grouped there are Rayleigh, Beckmann and depending on your view Oden when he was on WB ship . There’s a good deal of variance of their strength but they’re always the second stronger in the crew to the captain to authority and strength
YC2. : second in power and authority
Queen , Smoothie , Vista (?) , also very powerful. Scopper Gaban also fits into this designation

yC3 :Jack , Cracker , Jozu( probably stronger than the average YC3 and probably actually hovered around YC2 in strength even ) ,

now things in one piece are flexible , there can be folks in the crew who hover around that level of strength or even higher in the crew

High level Executives and YC4(?) : very strong and reknowned authority figures in the crew
Folks like Oven , Perospero , Daifuku , the Tobi Roppo , Snack , Ace , the rest of the WB commanders, BB titanic captains/commanders, Robin , franky , the stronger members of the Strawhat grand fleet ( cavendish , don sai etc )
Now some members here might Exceed the strength (Ace) and authority (Perospero) of this group depending
We also need to know it was done to emphasize the similarities between kaido and big mum , we should note that not every YC crew is the same

 

[Sogeking sama]

Sorry, but it seems to me the opposite, the guy with the bowler hat defeated Drake with ease

That's just exactly what I said. Tobbi roppo just a joke. They can't even handle cp0.

It's like almost all of kaido armies was just a joke. Numbers is considered as 1 of their strongest power & threat, but they end up get 1 shoot by anyone. Tobbi roppo can't even handle cp0 when wb's commander in bad shape can beat cp0. Hawkins just a clown, he has 1 of the hax df ability, but he just like let everyone hit him & kill him many times instead of learnt how to fight & dodge properly. Apoo was strong, but still can't beat cp0, just same as tobbi roppo. Even queen, he is strong, but his personality make him lose easily, instead of fight properly & finish off his enemy he just like to play.

It's why I said in general power maybe beast pirates is the weakest among the yonkou.

Robin and Franky easily beat Sasaki and Black Maria ... I wouldn't say so.

No, franky & robin didn't win easily. It's only jinbe who win easily againt tobbi roppo.

Franky was the close one, he almost lose. He even sacrifice his main power (general franky). I can see he beat oven or daifuku the same way like he beat sasaki. But i can't see he beat perospero, or even beat who's who.

Robin. She was fainted after beat black maria, so it's tought battle for her althought brook already help her to nerfed black maria (destroy her weapon). Even till she win, she still can't handle & break free from black maria's net if it's not bcs of brook.

Without brook, in fair fight 1 vs 1 since the beginning robin will be lose. After get caught in black maria's net, all she need just burn robin to death with her weapon. But we know, brook already broke that weapon & black maria not really want to kill robin.

Even without need to catch robin in her net. If black maria's weapon still around, robin won't had a chance. She trying hard to handle the fire, and we know she can only use that method 1 times (break the roof), when black maria's weapon can produce unlimited fire.

Actually it will be easy win if it was brook vs black maria. But Oda give that chance for robin. To be honest, I can't see robin beat any tobbi roppo alone. She need brook to beat black maria. And another tobbi roppo has crazy durability, so robin's technique won't work on them. She is more suitable to fight tons of fodders (she can easily handle numbers of peoples at the same time) instead of fight strong opponent

She has 1 of the op df but didn't maximize it. Give that df to strong character it can broke everyone neck & kill them instantly. Just like if you give sugar, perona, bonney's df to another strong character, all they need just to touch their enemy.

 

[grey matter]

First of all, I responded to the comment that said "shp crewmates at YC level"

So we talk about crewmates here, not alliance..

Maybe franky & brook can handle oven & daifuku, but I can't see anyone who can handle perospero.

If you just mean the core crewmates alone, then yea they can't compete.

I can agree with that.

But that's because they are severely lacking in numbers.

But, if we talk about alliances, yeah they even can wreck navy, let alone just BM or Kaido pirates.

Bcs we know navy is stronger than any yonkou's crew.

Navy > wb > kaido = BM (we talk about overall strength here, not only depends on some of strong guy).

Shanks & BB's crew strength still unknown. But I don't think they surpass navy (fleet admiral (sengoku) & their legend (garp) didn't even need to join the battle but wb still got a big loss. But yeah, in this era most likely those 2 won't join the war again)

In another hand shp alliances is at different league. Put aside kid, killer & marco who wasn't became their official alliance yet. They still have law & 9 akazaya, it's like 9 peoples at 3rd-4th YC level.

And put aside hakuba who will just became problem & slaughter many of our friends if robin/bartho isn't around. They still have Bartho who can easily toying with vice admiral. Tons of minks with sulong & tons of samurai from legendary land. Tons of dwarfs who can silently kill an armies without them noticing it. Several giants (even BM trying hard to get that power for her crew). Don chinjao a legend with CoC (althouth it seems he won't participated in the war). Sai who is stronger than chinjao. Etc.

Shp alliances is at different league.

So, If we talk about shp alliances I think everyone know shp alliances can wreck every yonkou crew, even navy, but we talk about shp crewmates here

Hold on, let's not get too ahead of ourselves here.

If the fully navy really tried, they'd stomp SHP (with Grand Fleet) pretty easily.
(And, the Scabbards, Law, Kid, Marco, Minks etc are only "allies". They are their own faction. They aren't a part of the Grand Fleet and shouldn't be considered a part of the SHP.)

In Marineford, Garp and Sengoku didn't do anything at all. Old Garp should be relative to old WB, considering peak WB and peak Garp were relative. Sengoku should be around the same ballpark too, even if weaker.
Aokiji and Kizaru were only semi serious. Only Akainu actually fought fully serious and gave his 100% in that battle.


So, 2 out of the top 5 in Navy didn't fight. 2 fought, but wasn't bloodlusted. Only 1 actually fought at his max.
And this isn't even considering the Shichibukai here, amongst whom all were only semi serious as well. (c
They STILL defeated the WB pirates convincingly, which was easily the strongest Yonko crew when it was active.

To take on the full force of Navy, 3 Yonko crews need to make an alliance.


Right now, IMO:
Navy >> WB crew > SHP > Beast pirates >= BM pirates

That's just exactly what I said. Tobbi roppo just a joke. They can't even handle cp0.

It's like almost all of kaido armies was just a joke. Numbers is considered as 1 of their strongest power & threat, but brook & franky can easily 1 shoot them without even go all out. Tobbi roppo can't even handle cp0 when wb's commander in bad shape can beat cp0. Hawkins just a clown, he has 1 of the hax df ability, but he just like let everyone hit him & kill him many times instead of learnt how to fight & dodge properly. Apoo was strong, but still can't beat cp0, just same as tobbi roppo. Even queen, he is strong, but his personality make him lose easily, instead of fight properly & finish off his enemy he just like to play.

It's why I said in general power maybe beast pirates is the weakest among the yonkou.

Ehh, Queen is a clown. But aside from that, beast pirates were fine.
King is probably stronger than Katakuri, and would've won against Zoro if he played a bit smarter. Jack was fine as well, he lost to Sulong Cat, a much stronger opponent.
Two Tobiroppo were basically taken out by BM, and one defected. If they actually fought without these conditions, we would've felt them to be lot more threatening.

Beast Pirates are overall comparable to BM pirates. With slight edge to Beast Pirates. Kaido is slightly stronger than BM. King slightly stronger than Katakuri. Cracker slightly stronger than Jack. Tobiroppo and executives relative to each other. Beast pirates have better grunts due to gifters.

Hmmmm the term yonkou commander refers to usually the 3 top commanders in a yonkou crew in power and some times authority, it’s based on the 3 calamities of the beast pirates and 3 sweet commanders of the big mum pirates
There are broken into 3 usually
YC1 : Marco , Katakuri , King , some guys also grouped there are Rayleigh, Beckmann and depending on your view Oden when he was on WB ship . There’s a good deal of variance of their strength but they’re always the second stronger in the crew to the captain to authority and strength
YC2. : second in power and authority
Queen , Smoothie , Vista (?) , also very powerful. Scopper Gaban also fits into this designation

yC3 :Jack , Cracker , Jozu( probably stronger than the average YC3 and probably actually hovered around YC2 in strength even ) ,

now things in one piece are flexible , there can be folks in the crew who hover around that level of strength or even higher in the crew

High level Executives and YC4(?) : very strong and reknowned authority figures in the crew
Folks like Oven , Perospero , Daifuku , the Tobi Roppo , Snack , Ace , the rest of the WB commanders, BB titanic captains/commanders, Robin , franky , the stronger members of the Strawhat grand fleet ( cavendish , don sai etc )
Now some members here might Exceed the strength (Ace) and authority (Perospero) of this group depending
We also need to know it was done to emphasize the similarities between kaido and big mum , we should note that not every YC crew is the same

Yeah, the current "YC" is only referring to Kaido and BM crew structure. So, top 3.

Is it representative of other Yonko crews? Don't think so.
- WB pirates had 16 commanders, all equal in authority. But we all know here that the top 5 are the special: Marco, Ace, Jozu, Thatch, Vista. So they are probably the equivalent of "YC" in power level.
- BB pirates have 10 commanders.
- Red Hair pirates: we don't know what their power structure is. But if we're considering the narrative, then "YC" structure fits well for them as well. With Ben Beckman, the fat guy and Yassop


If we're looking at purely powerlevels, and consider King as the benchmark of YC1.
Then characters like Marco, Rayleigh and Oden (and likely Ben Beckman) won't fit in here. There isn't much of a parity between the Yonko crews. Oden and peak Rayleigh are (most likYonko tiers for example.

Ace

Isn't Ace straight up considered a "YC" ?

He was YC2, and groomed to be the heir apparent to Whitebeard.

We also need to know it was done to emphasize the similarities between kaido and big mum , we should note that not every YC crew is the same

Yep, basically this. 100%

Saw this edit after I wrote the entire thing lol

 

[Franz]

That's just exactly what I said. Tobbi roppo just a joke. They can't even handle cp0.

And this would be a demerit why?

 

[Sogeking sama]

If you just mean the core crewmates alone, then yea they can't compete.

I can agree with that.

But that's because they are severely lacking in numbers.




Hold on, let's not get too ahead of ourselves here.

If the fully navy really tried, they'd stomp SHP (with Grand Fleet) pretty easily.
(And, the Scabbards, Law, Kid, Marco, Minks etc are only "allies". They are their own faction. They aren't a part of the Grand Fleet and shouldn't be considered a part of the SHP.)

In Marineford, Garp and Sengoku didn't do anything at all. Old Garp should be relative to old WB, considering peak WB and peak Garp were relative. Sengoku should be around the same ballpark too, even if weaker.
Aokiji and Kizaru were only semi serious. Only Akainu actually fought fully serious and gave his 100% in that battle.


So, 2 out of the top 5 in Navy didn't fight. 2 fought, but wasn't bloodlusted. Only 1 actually fought at his max.
And this isn't even considering the Shichibukai here, amongst whom all were only semi serious as well. (c
They STILL defeated the WB pirates convincingly, which was easily the strongest Yonko crew when it was active.

To take on the full force of Navy, 3 Yonko crews need to make an alliance.


Right now, IMO:
Navy >> WB crew > SHP > Beast pirates >= BM pirates

No, I mean navy alone. Not Navy+WG. Bcs WG full power still unknown (im, gorosei, every member of cp0, their new weapon that subtitue shicibukai). Anyway, shicibukai isn't around anymore, wg change them with some weapon. Eventhought it's said comparable to shicibukai power, bcs it's just a machine, franky can do something to handle that. But we IM, gorosei & cp0 full power still unknown.



That's why I said only navy. If it's shp alliance, not just shp crewmates, they can already beat navy alone. Not navy+WG.

And most likely sengoku & garp will not participate again, they already semi retired, especially if the war is againt luffy.

It will became like my comment before..

So let's assume even if zoro & yamato already at marco level, sanji at jozu level, jinbe at vizta level.

when izo & the rest of wb's captains way stronger than franky cs.

But even that, wb still got a big loss from navy.

Even without the fleet admiral join the battle, the admirals (kizaru and aokiji) didn't fought seriously, and didn't received the full assistance of WG (cp 0), not to mention that IM, gorosei & WG new weapons whose strength is not yet known.


Unless if shp really get help from kid, law, marco & akazaya. Maybe it will secure their victory if they only fight navy without WG help (WG full power still unknown) and if they fight smart & logically.

Luffy, kid, law beat akainu
Zoro, killer beat fujitora
Marco, sanji beat kizaru
Yamato, jinbe beat greenbull
Akazaya can easily handle vice admiral
The rest of shp & alliances easily handle captains and fodders

But we know it will not became that way, it will became 1 vs 1, so they still not ready to fight navy with their idealism (fair fight 1 vs 1), let alone if they fight navy+WG

Put aside kid, killer, marco. They still can win if let some of akazaya help zoro & sanji and give vice admiral to bartho cs.




More importantly. I think we must stop here bcs it's already out of context from this post's topic. And the moderator also already warn us

Tone it down on the powerscaling aspect, i.e don't let it take over the whole thread otherwise I'll have to move your posts.

 

[grey matter]

No, I mean navy alone. Not Navy+WG. Bcs WG full power still unknown (im, gorosei, every member of cp0, their new weapon that subtitue shicibukai). Anyway, shicibukai isn't around anymore, wg change them with some weapon. Eventhought it's said comparable to shicibukai power, bcs it's just a machine, franky can do something to handle that. But we IM, gorosei & cp0 full power still unknown.



That's why I said only navy. If it's shp alliance, not just shp crewmates, they can already beat navy alone. Not navy+WG. Like my comment before..

Mods are looking at us

Anyway, I'm also only talking about Navy alone.
The force that was present at Marineford. They didn't have CP0, Gorosei etc. And still convincingly won against WB pirates.

Admirals are individually close to Yonkos in PL (and I'd argue Akainu is actually as strong, if not stronger. Same for Garp and Sengoku).
The Navy has five such characters. And a handful of vice admirals who are "admiral candidates", who are around varying Yonko Commander levels

Marineford Navy would wipe the floor with any Yonko crew. You could even have peak WB and add Oden to the WB crew, and they would still get stomped in Marineford.

Put aside kid, killer, marco. They still can win if let some of akazaya help zoro & sanji and give vice admiral to bartho cs.




More importantly. I think we must stop here bcs it's already out of context from this post's topic. And the moderator also already warn us

I disagree, but yea. Mods are looking lol

Half of this reads as "Sanji beat Queen, therefore I won't consider him strong".

Queen was mentioned in one sentence in a post of like 100 sentences and the post didn't even mention Sanji. And this is what you took from it. Absolute take from fanboi.

 

[thedude]

Mods are looking at us

Anyway, I'm also only talking about Navy alone.
The force that was present at Marineford. They didn't have CP0, Gorosei etc. And still convincingly won against WB pirates.

Admirals are individually close to Yonkos in PL (and I'd argue Akainu is actually as strong, if not stronger. Same for Garp and Sengoku).
The Navy has five such characters. And a handful of vice admirals who are "admiral candidates", who are around varying Yonko Commander levels

Marineford Navy would wipe the floor with any Yonko crew. You could even have peak WB and add Oden to the WB crew, and they would still get stomped in Marineford.



I disagree, but yea. Mods are looking lol



Queen was mentioned in one sentence in a post of like 100 sentences and the post didn't even mention Sanji. And this is what you took from it. Absolute take from fanboi.

He was mentioned, and then when you talk about YC levels you bring up King and Jack and omit one...

 

[grey matter]

He was mentioned, and then when you talk about YC levels you bring up King and Jack and omit one...

You said "half of this", when it was mentioned as sidenote literally once in a giant post.
And Queen being a clown in combat isn't really a hot take, it's a pretty common opinion.

I omitted him because we don't know jackskit about Smoothie, so can't compare both. But by portrayal, they should be relative.

 

[Pirate Queen]

If you line up feats, Queen was by far the more impressive of the two (between him and King) but he was a clown at the same time. I think it just made him all the more impressive.

There really is no comparison. King was not very useless overall. His most useful feat was knocking away the Big Mom Pirates and that was prior to the Raid.

Edit: oh geez this isn't the power level thread

What's going on here???