One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

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[grey matter]

Oda said they were the main after sky walk 1 you know when not even sanji and ussop had hopped on board
Context of conversations matter
We are 980 chapters removed from such statement the manga has evolved a lot since then

You think Sanji and Ussop are more important strawhats than Zoro and Nami? Highly doubt it.

 

[HereNThere]

Really don't get this conversation. The entire Strawhat crew would be considered deuteragonists, right after Luffy. Zoro and Nami are the longest tenured, sure, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm fairly certain Oda has constantly made it a point to show that every member is essential for this journey.

 

[The Prince of Darkness]

Oda said they were the main after sky walk 1 you know when not even sanji and ussop had hopped on board
Context of conversations matter
We are 980 chapters removed from such statement the manga has evolved a lot since then

Zoro is Luffy's partner. His binome, his shadow just like Rayleigh was to Roger and Beckman is to Shanks. After Luffy he's the most important SH member.
Just like Roger was the King on the Light while Rayleigh was King in the Dark, Luffy is becoming the King of the Surface while Zoro is becoming the King of the Underworld.
Luffy and Zoro will always have that kind of Light and Shadow parallel and no matter how far ahead luffy is and will be, Zoro will always be the closest to him

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

This is nonsense. Zoro's goal isn't to be the guy who beats Mihawk, it's to be the strongest swordsman. If tomorrow Donkey Kong beats Mihawk in swordsmanship, Zoro's goal will be to beat Donkey Kong.

Levels, In terms of importance, Sanji is given more importance than Chopper for sure.

L1: Luffy
L2: Zoro
L3: Nami
L4: Sanji/Ussop
L5: Chopper/Robin
L6: Franky/Brook
L7: Jinbe
L8: Vivi (?)/Yamato (?)

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

Yeah, don't think he said he wanted to be the strongest swordsman ever in history.

But he definitely wants to be the strongest swordsman currently alive.
He goes after Mihawk only because Mihawk is that.

You think Sanji and Ussop are more important strawhats than Zoro and Nami? Highly doubt it.

And yes the WSSM is mihawk lmao , bringing other characters and head cannon to say suddenly that would switch up and Zoro would surpass WB prime garp and roger is :/
We’ve already been clearly shown Zoro constant target

 

[grey matter]

And yes the WSSM is mihawk lmao , bringing other characters and head cannon to say suddenly that would switch up and Zoro would surpass WB prime garp and roger is :/
We’ve already been clearly shown Zoro constant target

Lol, I didn't claim anything you said here, if you actually bothered reading anything you'd see that I argued against it. Nice job arguing against strawman.

All I said is that the only reason Zoro is after Mihawk is because he is WSS. If some other swordsman hypothetically get to Mihawk before Zoro, then he would be the WSS and will be the new focus of Zoro

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

Some dudes here have actual Zoro derangement syndrome

 

[Fox666]

Levels, In terms of importance, Sanji is given more importance than Chopper for sure.

Ah yes, I completely forgot about Sanji

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Lol, I didn't claim anything you said here, if you actually bothered reading anything you'd see that I argued against it. Nice job arguing against strawman.

All I said is that the only reason Zoro is after Mihawk is because he is WSS. If some other swordsman hypothetically get to Mihawk before Zoro, then he would be the WSS and will be the new focus of Zoro

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

Some dudes here have actual Zoro derangement syndrome

Ah yes, I completely forgot about Sanji

Pre Time skip I argued between sanji and Zoro it was close but a slight edge to Zoro
Post time skip I don’t think it’s particularly close that law and sanji are more impactful , tbose 2 have had their own 2 arcs and laws actions pretty much have determined the course ( kicking up the alliance )
What has been Zoro big story beats post timekip , im not even hating cause I wanted him to have something in wano
so yeah calling Zoro a deurotagonist especially post timeskip Doesn’t work he’s not a sasuke type or bakugo or dbs vegeta , the story doesn’t really revolve around him as actively to qualify him as one

 

[grey matter]

Pre Time skip I argued between sanji and Zoro it was close but a slight edge to Zoro
Post time skip I don’t think it’s particularly close that law and sanji are more impactful , tbose 2 have had their own 2 arcs and laws actions pretty much have determined the course ( kicking up the alliance )
What has been Zoro big story beats post timekip , im not even hating cause I wanted him to have something in wano
so yeah calling Zoro a deurotagonist especially post timeskip Doesn’t work he’s not a sasuke type or bakugo or dbs vegeta , the story doesn’t really revolve around him as actively to qualify him as one

I don't get why you're tagging me man.
I didn't argue that Zoro is deurotagonist (not even sure what that means, if it means something like Vegeta or Sasuke yeah Zoro definitely ain't one, Zoro isn't Luffy's rival and acknowledges Luffy's superior status) or that he would surpass Roger/WB (I argued against it).


In terms of importance, he is certainly the 2nd most important strawhat.
You can really just look at parallels see why. Rayleigh (dark king to the king in limelight) and Ben Beckman (moon to the sun) are the parallels of Zoro, for Roger and Shanks, two characters from whom Luffy inherited his will. Parallels to Oden (brother of WB) as well, the no2 of Whitebeard, Roger's equal. Has willpower almost comparable to Luffy's own, and has conqueror's haki. Has been given a EOS goal somewhat comparable but inferior to Luffy's own (WSS to PK).
His role in the crew is kinda subtle, but Oda does highlight it from time to time. He is meant to keep Luffy in check and be serious, meant to more of less be his partner who supports him along the journey.
It just gets lost for many viewers, because it is subtle. Especially relative to Sanji who get to do the flashy investigative stuff that is more easily noticable (like those in Alabasta, Water 7, EL etc)


That being said, I will definitely agree with you that Zoro in Wano has been a massive disappointment though. Should've been Zoro's arc with the samurai stuff, Japan vibes etc. But nah, all he got was some sword which asspulled him to jump directly to advanced conqueror's
The strawhats apart from Luffy in general have taken a backseat post timeskip. We no longer see the cool stuff that Sanji used to pull off in pre timeskip, no more "nothing happened" moments for Zoro, etc.

 

[Rein Avara]

Why is this discussion happening in here? Topic is power levels whether someone is a main character or not is irrelevant.

 

[albertwv]

Enough of the importance of Zolo and other characters. Zolo's goal is to become the current WSS, not in all time. Why not? Because how the hell would he know if he was the WSS in all of history? How can he compare himself to previous WSS, he can't! We don't even know if the title WSS has only one recipient (Mihawk). So Zolo's current goal is to take down Mihawk because he is the WSS. If somebody were to beat him to that goal, then I am sure Zolo would go after that person for the title. And I am sure that Zolo might still go after Mihawk just for fun to test himself against the previous WSS, if that were the case.

What I am curious is how strong Mihawk really is,,,, I mean who isn't curious? I always thought that Zolo would be fighting strong Samurai opponents in Wano or throughout the New World to get ready for his duel with Mihawk. Zolo went from fighting a weak frog to a snowbirdwoman, to a Giant Rock, to a fox shape shifting, fellow Supernova, and a Yonko, and finally a YC1 with a sword but not swordsman. Out of the fights he's had in the NW, only 2 wielded swords, but did not solely fight with swords or was a sword duel.

In reality, it seems Zolo has only had a few sword duels in all his time since the EB. Hatchi, Kaku, Ryuma, Frog Swordsman, and that's it....? I'm talking about where he clashed more with actual swords, than blades or DF powers during his fights.

Regarding Mihawk, we can assume he is stronger than King/YC1 since he is undoubtedly going to duel later with Zolo and there is no possible way for Oda to not give Zolo a challenge in his dream goal.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Enough of the importance of Zolo and other characters. Zolo's goal is to become the current WSS, not in all time. Why not? Because how the hell would he know if he was the WSS in all of history? How can he compare himself to previous WSS, he can't! We don't even know if the title WSS has only one recipient (Mihawk). So Zolo's current goal is to take down Mihawk because he is the WSS. If somebody were to beat him to that goal, then I am sure Zolo would go after that person for the title. And I am sure that Zolo might still go after Mihawk just for fun to test himself against the previous WSS, if that were the case.

What I am curious is how strong Mihawk really is,,,, I mean who isn't curious? I always thought that Zolo would be fighting strong Samurai opponents in Wano or throughout the New World to get ready for his duel with Mihawk. Zolo went from fighting a weak frog to a snowbirdwoman, to a Giant Rock, to a fox shape shifting, fellow Supernova, and a Yonko, and finally a YC1 with a sword but not swordsman. Out of the fights he's had in the NW, only 2 wielded swords, but did not solely fight with swords or was a sword duel.

In reality, it seems Zolo has only had a few sword duels in all his time since the EB. Hatchi, Kaku, Ryuma, Frog Swordsman, and that's it....? I'm talking about where he clashed more with actual swords, than blades or DF powers during his fights.

Regarding Mihawk, we can assume he is stronger than King/YC1 since he is undoubtedly going to duel later with Zolo and there is no possible way for Oda to not give Zolo a challenge in his dream goal.

I think Mihawk will end up being Yonko level fighter who can use all forms of haki, incuding their advanced versions. Unless Zoro is fighting him next, by the time Zoro faces him (or whoever dethrones him) he will likely have mastered using aCoC and turned a blade black (unless he does it in the fight itself to show he is now WSS level similar to Luffy getting aCoC+awakening when fighting Kaido).

As for Zoro not fighting many other swordsmen, I don't think that is relevant. Sure it would be cool to see him have a legit sword match but at the end of the day so long as Zoro himself is using swordsmen-ship to fight, all that matters are his opponents are strong. I highly doubt Mihawk got his title by only fighting other swordsmen since most of the powerful people in OP world are DF users with varied combat styles. In fact I think it's more important that Zoro get's variety in types of opponents to test if he can use his swords skills in a versatile enough way to overcome each challenge.

 

[LadyVados]

Ok forget about Zoro being the deuteragonist…

At the end of the manga-

Luffy will be the greatest pirate ever

Zoro will be greatest swordsman ever

Sanji will be the greatest cook ever

Nami will be the greatest navigator ever

Chopper will be the greatest doctor ever

Usopp will be the greatest sniper ever

Robin will be the greatest archaeologist ever

And so on and so forth…


Even Sakura became the greatest medical ninjutsu practitioner ever did she not ?

If Roger is a swordsman then Zoro will surpass him, if he isn’t then he probably won’t. There won’t be a situation in which Roger is a swordsman but Zoro ends up weaker than him. That would be dumb. Imagine if Sanji is called the greatest cook ever apart from that one dude who was way better than him who happened to die a year before he was born. That would be the stupidest possible thing and no mangaka will do that to a member of their main cast (I hope we can agree Zoro is at least that).

 

[M3J]

One Zoro really isn’t the deurotagonist of the manga lmao, Zoro fans kill me . Maybe that arguemenr could be somewhat made pre timekskop , but post timeskip law and sanji deffs affect and are more active story wise ( sanji literally has more panel time in the manga despite showing up after Zoro ) Zoro isn’t sasuke or DBS vegeta in regard to story
One again Zoro said his goal is mihawk to surpass mihawk not to be the strongest swordsman ever he is specific . Zoro all through the series : my goal is mihawk
You know why those characters you mentioned became the strongest ever because they were the MAIN characters , that slip is interesting cause it shows how you view Zoro

Zoro's goal is to be the strongest swordsman, he's mentioned this many times. THe main reason why Mihawk is brought up is because he's known as the world's strongest swordsman, the title that Zoro wants. If Shanks beats Mihawk for that title, then Zoro's target will switch to Shanks. If for some reason Hachi becomes the world's greatest swordsman by accident, Zoro will still target Hachi for the title and then maybe go after the previous holder if they're insanely strong.

It just happens that Mihawk is the obstacle to Zoro's goal.

Really don't get this conversation. The entire Strawhat crew would be considered deuteragonists, right after Luffy. Zoro and Nami are the longest tenured, sure, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm fairly certain Oda has constantly made it a point to show that every member is essential for this journey.

He has, but more importantly, he's established their importance through Luffy, whose desire is to become PIrate King with his friends.

 

[XXGenesis]

Injured Beast Pirates got owned Off screen!….Looked like they didn’t provide much resistance

Current Roster of Scabbards are fighting back….Yamato lands a hit, Ryugoku says his haki is strong…

Gotta know when to put stock into power scailing and when not to..

 

[shailks]

Injured Beast Pirates got owned Off screen!….Looked like they didn’t provide much resistance

Current Roster of Scabbards are fighting back….Yamato lands a hit, Ryugoku says his haki is strong…

Gotta know when to put stock into power scailing and when not to..

Scabbards are not weaklings plus they have Yamato and Momo (lol) in the roster. they can certainly hold their ground for the time being till it gets resolved somehow. I get a feeling Yamato might decide to stay back after all this. The danger to Wano in absence of Kaido is too great! I wa shoping she would join the gang, but not so sure anymore.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Injured Beast Pirates got owned Off screen!….Looked like they didn’t provide much resistance

Current Roster of Scabbards are fighting back….Yamato lands a hit, Ryugoku says his haki is strong…

Gotta know when to put stock into power scailing and when not to..

Scabbards did alriht agsisnt kaido and Yamato arriving changes things
Let’s see how it plays they’re just testing the waters right now

 

[catagon87]

@Lord Traffy Law @shailks @XXGenesis

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[grey matter]

Enough of the importance of Zolo and other characters. Zolo's goal is to become the current WSS, not in all time. Why not? Because how the hell would he know if he was the WSS in all of history? How can he compare himself to previous WSS, he can't! We don't even know if the title WSS has only one recipient (Mihawk). So Zolo's current goal is to take down Mihawk because he is the WSS. If somebody were to beat him to that goal, then I am sure Zolo would go after that person for the title. And I am sure that Zolo might still go after Mihawk just for fun to test himself against the previous WSS, if that were the case.

What I am curious is how strong Mihawk really is,,,, I mean who isn't curious? I always thought that Zolo would be fighting strong Samurai opponents in Wano or throughout the New World to get ready for his duel with Mihawk. Zolo went from fighting a weak frog to a snowbirdwoman, to a Giant Rock, to a fox shape shifting, fellow Supernova, and a Yonko, and finally a YC1 with a sword but not swordsman. Out of the fights he's had in the NW, only 2 wielded swords, but did not solely fight with swords or was a sword duel.

In reality, it seems Zolo has only had a few sword duels in all his time since the EB. Hatchi, Kaku, Ryuma, Frog Swordsman, and that's it....? I'm talking about where he clashed more with actual swords, than blades or DF powers during his fights.

Regarding Mihawk, we can assume he is stronger than King/YC1 since he is undoubtedly going to duel later with Zolo and there is no possible way for Oda to not give Zolo a challenge in his dream goal.

Mihawk is relative to Shanks based on portrayal, which is Yonko level.

Mihawk should definitely be Yonko level based on narrative of the WSS as well. Zoro will eventually be stronger than peak Rayleigh and Oden by narrative, both of whom are Yonko level characters. For Mihawk to still fight Zoro and have an upper hand in their supposed final duel (as will be pattern if it happens), Mihawk should also be Yonko level.

As for his abilities. he would most likely have advanced versions of all three haki. The epithet "Hawkeye" implies some strong observation haki. Advanced armament is a given. Current Zoro has advanced conqueror's, and Zoro's dream of being WSS is implied as that which requires qualities of an emperor - > both of these heavily imply Mihawk having advanced conqueror's as well.

Injured Beast Pirates got owned Off screen!….Looked like they didn’t provide much resistance

Current Roster of Scabbards are fighting back….Yamato lands a hit, Ryugoku says his haki is strong…

Gotta know when to put stock into power scailing and when not to..

Spoiler

Scabbards gave Kaido some trouble.
Yamato gave Kaido some trouble.
Momo is implied to have very high natural stats, though he is unskilled. His bite hurt Kaido

All three of these combined would give anyone in the series some trouble. Nobody is just gonna walk over them, admirals or Yonkos.... With possible exceptions of those relative to Roger.

 

[XXGenesis]

Scabbards are not weaklings plus they have Yamato and Momo (lol) in the roster. they can certainly hold their ground for the time being till it gets resolved somehow. I get a feeling Yamato might decide to stay back after all this. The danger to Wano in absence of Kaido is too great! I wa shoping she would join the gang, but not so sure anymore.

I didn’t say there were weaklings. Are you saying the Beast Pirates are weaklings? That’s why they lost?

Scabbards did alriht agsisnt kaido and Yamato arriving changes things
Let’s see how it plays they’re just testing the waters right now

I liked the effort & fight they put up against Kaido also.

You both responded but totally ignored what I said……

I was trying to highlight the story telling of how the opportunities of overcoming adversity that is provided to protagonist compared to the antagonist.

If Green Bull rlly did Low-Diff the Remaining Beat Pirates with their commanders;

He should be doing the same to the Scabbards….

He’s not however because the Story needs to told. Meaning Oda was just hyping up Green Bull, & a fight with the Beast Pirates & commanders should have resulted in a similar manner

 

[shailks]

I didn’t say there were weaklings. Are you saying the Beast Pirates are weaklings? That’s why they lost?



I liked the effort & fight they put up against Kaido also.

You both responded but totally ignored what I said……

I was trying to highlight the story telling of how the opportunities of overcoming adversity that is provided to protagonist compared to the antagonist.

If Green Bull rlly did Low-Diff the Remaining Beat Pirates with their commanders;

He should be doing the same to the Scabbards….

He’s not however because the Story needs to told. Meaning Oda was just hyping up Green Bull, & a fight with the Beast Pirates & commanders should have resulted in a similar manner

No, just that scabbards plus Yamato and momo are more than capable of holding an admiral till it resolves in some way. I don't think they can win, but if they do only then it might create some powerscaling debate.