One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Bruh Why are people pretending like WB and roger isn’t stronger than the Yonkos lol

Stronger =\= being in a whole other tier
You can be stronger but still be in the same class
Students who score 100 and students who score 90-95 are still in the same tier , yeah the students who scored 100 are the best but they’re not in a whole other level

 

[grey matter]

Bruh Why are people pretending like WB and roger isn’t stronger than the Yonkos lol

Quite baffling that people can't accept that prime WB is on a completely different tier from old WB, who is incapable of using conqueror's haki and had relatively shit observation haki on top of general nerf from being old.

Heck, even old WB in meds >> old WB in Marineford, forget prime WB.
Old WB in meds has conqueror's haki relative to Shanks and always on (advanced) observation haki.

 

[kkck]

Yeah, my headcanon is as well that prime Roger/whitebeard/kaido/linlin are at least in the same orbit of strength. Roger and whitebeard were probably ahead of the curve though I also wouldn't put them in their own super special awesome tier. It's worth noting that yonko crews from before big mom's and kaido's fall are stronger than what roger or WB's crew back when roger was alive and active. Yonko crews were shown as massive crime syndicates with wide ranging connections and influence across many territories in the NW. Lead by one of the yonko, they had powerful executives, then powerful followers, then thousands and thousands of soldiers, battleships... Modern yonko crews were just different from what roger had back in the day.

 

[LaGOAT]

Stronger =\= being in a whole other tier
You can be stronger but still be in the same class
Students who score 100 and students who score 90-95 are still in the same tier , yeah the students who scored 100 are the best but they’re not in a whole other level

i agree on that. but tiers can be different from ppl prospective. Example some might think WB can high diff kaido which put him in a different tier

2. WB and Roger portrayal has been hype even from other yonkos and marines themselves BM and kaido puts them in higher pedstal. it was said that wb could have PK anytime he wanted to. rogers and garp fought the rock pirates and won

 

[grey matter]

i agree on that. but tiers can be different from ppl prospective. Example some ppl think if WB can high diff kaido some might put him in a different tier

2. WB and Roger portrayal has been hype even from other yonkos and marines themselves BM and kaido puts them in higher pedstal. it was said that wb could have PK anytime he wanted to. rogers and garp fought the rock pirates and won

Yep, for me Roger can mid-high diff Yonkos (closer to high diff for Kaido,closer to mid diff for BM).
This is personally what I mean by a different tier.

It's not like PK tiers wash over the Yonkos, which is probably what someone else might think from "different tier", this could be what is causing the disagreements.

But then again, there exists people who actually believe BM is giving Roger and prime WB an extreme diff lmaoo, so we may never know.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 5, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 5, 2022 ---

I mean, do people actually think that Luffy has peaked? The dude is already solidly in Yonko tier, like he's mid end Yonko now. If there is nothing from now, then what?

This is another obvious narrative reason why there should be a level higher, even apart from narratives supporting Whitebeard

 

[LaGOAT]

Yep, for me Roger can mid-high diff Yonkos (closer to high diff for Kaido,closer to mid diff for BM).
This is personally what I mean by a different tier.

It's not like PK tiers wash over the Yonkos, which is probably what someone else might think from "different tier", this could be what is causing the disagreements.

But then again, there exists people who actually believe BM is giving Roger and prime WB an extreme diff lmaoo, so we may never know.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 5, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 5, 2022 ---

I mean, do people actually think that Luffy has peaked? The dude is already solidly in Yonko tier, like he's mid end Yonko now. If there is nothing from now, then what?

This is another obvious narrative reason why there should be a level higher, even apart from narratives supporting Whitebeard

Exactly like luffy has reach that tier and now ppl think that there isn’t a higher lvl? Lol BB might surpass these yonkos akainu might be a different bracket. Imu might be a whole different lvl compare to the yonkos. I doubt this is the highest ceiling

 

[M3J]

Whitebeard is the only person I can believe that was stronger than the emperors while Roger could have been close to the emperors' strength, but had luck on his side so it was easier for him to win. Even Luffy doesn't have to be on a higher tier, he can be on the same tier and still become Pirate King.

 

[Fox666]

Whitebeard is the only person I can believe that was stronger than the emperors while Roger could have been close to the emperors' strength, but had luck on his side so it was easier for him to win. Even Luffy doesn't have to be on a higher tier, he can be on the same tier and still become Pirate King.

But we have seen Whitebeard and Roger perfectly match each other in the flashback

 

[LaGOAT]

Whitebeard is the only person I can believe that was stronger than the emperors while Roger could have been close to the emperors' strength, but had luck on his side so it was easier for him to win. Even Luffy doesn't have to be on a higher tier, he can be on the same tier and still become Pirate King.

Lol bro what r u talking about roger and WB was evenly match

also Roger was sick and was able to tango with WB and send oden flying with a causal attack. plus a lot people put oden on the yonko tier.

roger is just that boy

 

[M3J]

But we have seen Whitebeard and Roger perfectly match each other in the flashback

But I literally said friendly rivalry, where neither men were trying to kill each other but have fun.

 

[grey matter]

But I literally said friendly rivalry, where neither men were trying to kill each other but have fun.

There are characters in the series itself saying they are equal. Both portrayal and feats suggest they are relative

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2022 ---

Spoiler

The spoilers outright imply prime Rayleigh was a high-end Yonko tier. Further narrative proof that there is a level above that tier, cause no way captain isn't a level above his right hand man.
Roger will high diff Rayleigh.

 

[grey matter]

There was doubt there was a PK level?

Yeah, many people kept saying there is nothing after Yonko tier lol.

Tho I've never understood why myself. Old WB (in meds) was WSP/WSM. Old WB in Marineford, who is weaker than old WB in meds, extreme diff the strongest admiral who majority of us considers amongst the strongest characters currently alive.

It was clear as day that there is a level above Yonko, because prime WB existed at some point in the OP world, and there existed dudes who were relative to him.

 

[grey matter]

What do you mean by (in meds)?

He has some disease, and needed medical support (those tubes and all) to remain healthy.

At best, he was shown to be able to be off those meds for a few hours and function fine.

But Whitebeard in Marineford was off his meds for days, and this resulted in him being very sick during the arc, as noted by Marco and others. Couldn't use conquerors haki, had relatively poor observation haki and got heart attack mid fight

 

[grey matter]

Ahhh I get ya. I thought he was In a time period or something called meds.

In my country we refer to someone taking medicine as "On Meds" so I was confused.

Thanks for clearing that up .

I see. Maybe it's just my English lmao

Smoker and Ace was before Haki was normalized. That really don't count. As you see present Smoker was weaker than Law who probably is around Ace level before death. We don't truly know how strong Ace was because Aokiji vs Ace was another non Hali based clash really and Blackbeard literally had the ability to nullify his Haki. And like the Zephyr and Kizaru where Kizaru was said to be too reliant on his Devil Fruit ability, it was a true Ace disadvantage with Blackbeard. Sabo now was mighty powerful even without the devil fruit so he could still hold his own vs Blackbeard's ability since he was more trained to use Haki.

I didn't read the whole exchange so I don't know what the whole conversation was about. Should probably stay out this one.

Yep, it was DF shenanigans.
Still, it is to be acknowledged that there are levels to DF usage - with DF mastery, stamina etc. also playing a role. I think a novice DF user of ice fruit, will only be able to freeze a small pond or so, while Aokiji is able to freeze entire seas and islands.

For Smoker to clash with Ace, suggests good DF mastery from Smoker. Same with Ace, for being able to clash with Aokiji

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Lol bro what r u talking about roger and WB was evenly match

also Roger was sick and was able to tango with WB and send oden flying with a causal attack. plus a lot people put oden on the yonko tier.

roger is just that boy

That’s not the strongest oden , oden got many times stronger by the time of his return

 

[M3J]

There are characters in the series itself saying they are equal. Both portrayal and feats suggest they are relative

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2022 ---

Spoiler

The spoilers outright imply prime Rayleigh was a high-end Yonko tier. Further narrative proof that there is a level above that tier, cause no way captain isn't a level above his right hand man.
Roger will high diff Rayleigh.

Characters are saying that, but Oda is showing us them fighting and then having fun afterwards. Pretty hard to tell who's stronger, especially when the Pirate King doesn't necessarily have to be the strongest or even top 3 strongest. Usopp did confirm this by telling Luffy they could get to Laugh Tale without fighting an emperor, and Luffy getting huffed up at that rather than arguing back, as he wants to challenge himself and fight the emperors to show how strong he is.

Not proof enough....... But I didn't read the spoilers.

 

[grey matter]

That’s not the strongest oden , oden got many times stronger by the time of his return

Dude, that was before Oden left, versus after he returned.

Oden was already in WB's ship for 5 years, he was in Roger's ship only for one year.
Oden who returned to Wano was much closer in power to the Oden who got smacked away by Roger, than the Oden who left Wano with WB.

Characters are saying that, but Oda is showing us them fighting and then having fun afterwards. Pretty hard to tell who's stronger, especially when the Pirate King doesn't necessarily have to be the strongest or even top 3 strongest. Usopp did confirm this by telling Luffy they could get to Laugh Tale without fighting an emperor, and Luffy getting huffed up at that rather than arguing back, as he wants to challenge himself and fight the emperors to show how strong he is.

Not proof enough....... But I didn't read the spoilers.

The narrative portrayal is pretty obvious, when many characters say that Roger ~ WB. WB also says he has fought Roger many times, the fun fight we saw in the end was their last one, doesn't mean some of their earlier fights weren't serious, especially given how they were actual enemies back in the day (Rocks and all).
Yeah, their last fight was for fun, doesn't mean they didn't go all out in terms of haki and physical strength.just means they didn't have any killing intent. At the very least, it implied their strength and haki are relative, though yes admittedly that fight doesn't tell much about full extend of speed/CQC. I can exert my full power against my friend in a tug war, arm wrestling etc, without any intent of malice.
But if you want to ignore everything in the manga screaming they are relative, you do you man. I can't convince you.


PK kinda needs to be top 3, because Luffy's lesson from Marineford was simply that most free = strongest.
You cannot be free without being strong.

 

[grey matter]

This chapter confirms Ray was PK level. He was above BB. Only you can figure out a way to dehype Rayleigh (and by extension Zoro) after this
chapter.

But again you are the guy who has Marco above Zoro so your power scaling has always been weird.

Prime Rayleigh can be above current BB, and that doesn't necessarily mean Rayleigh is on PK tier. He can be on the high-end of Yonko tier, and still manage that. How TF is saying prime Rayleigh is on high-end Yonko tier a dehype lmao?
I'll believe Rayleigh is on that tier, when something conclusive suggests that. Maybe a flashback from Rocks days, or some statement or event putting him alongside Roger/WB/Garp

I like Zoro, why would I dehype him? Sanji bois say I dehype Sanji, Jinbe fans say the same as well lol.
I don't dehype anything. I'm just anti wank in general.

Yeah, Marco's feats are just better. Zoro only has attack power over him, Marco has him beat in every other stat

 

[LadyVados]

Prime Rayleigh can be above current BB, and that doesn't necessarily mean Rayleigh is on PK tier. He can be on the high-end of Yonko tier, and still manage that. How TF is saying prime Rayleigh is on high-end Yonko tier a dehype lmao?
I'll believe Rayleigh is on that tier, when something conclusive suggests that. Maybe a flashback from Rocks days, or some statement or event putting him alongside Roger/WB/Garp

I like Zoro, why would I dehype him? Sanji bois say I dehype Sanji, Jinbe fans say the same as well lol.
I don't dehype anything. I'm just anti wank in general.

Yeah, Marco's feats are just better. Zoro only has attack power over him, Marco has him beat in every other stat

Yeah, this is the greatest mystery to me regarding this chapter. Boa has now confirmed that if she dies those that has been petrified will remain so, which means that the theory of him undoing a previous petrification can't be true. BB and his crew are all still ugly so I don't understand who he had intended to eat the fruit. Perhaps the 10th commander is smokingly hot?

Also, is Boa's confirmation the first proof that devil fruit powers aren't necessarily cancelled after death?



Correct. Kaido did not acknowledge him and they must've met at God Valley. Kaido acknowledged Oden and he was nowhere near PK level.

Do you know who else was not mentioned by Kaido despite being as God Valley ? Garp !

Is Oden > Garp ?

Kaido mentioned WB and Roger because he admired them as great pirates. That doesn’t mean that Ray and Garp weren’t on the same tier.

Prime Ray = Prime Garp and Old Ray = Old Garp. They have VERY similar portrayal and hype. Heck Bb was more scared of stay than he was of Ga

There is a statement, Garp put him on the same pedestal as WB.

I consider current BB to be high Yonko tier himself and Prime Ray was clearly a grade above.

 

[grey matter]

Do you know who else was not mentioned by Kaido despite being as God Valley ? Garp !

Is Oden > Garp ?

Kaido mentioned WB and Roger because he admired them as great pirates. That doesn’t mean that Ray and Garp weren’t on the same tier.

I've never believed that prime Rayleigh < Oden.
In fact, I've always argued that prime Rayleigh > Oden, with the same reasoning for prime Garp/Sengoku not being in Kaido's "top 5"

Prime Ray = Prime Garp and Old Ray = Old Garp. They have VERY similar portrayal and hype.

Show me this portrayal.

Garp had direct portrayal with Roger. When did Rayleigh directly get compared to Roger?

I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong, or that this scenario is impossible.
I'm just saying there is no narrative evidence or implication for this.

Heck Bb was more scared of stay than he was of Ga

While that is true, it's probably the demeanor as well.

He knew Rayleigh meant business.
Garp + Sengoku are never the type to kill, at best they would beat up BB and co and put them in prison.

This is the same reason BB + crew retreated from Akainu as well. BB knows that Akainu is coming with the intent for murder, while the other two were calm old dudes at the end of the day, even if they were powerful.

Unless you want to argue that Akainu and old Rayleigh are individually stronger than old Garp + old Sengoku combined.

There is a statement, Garp put him on the same pedestal as WB.

Yeah, and yet WB was called WSM, WSP and Roger's equal.

All that meant was that Rayleigh was a top tier legend as well.
I think prime Rayleigh can give prime WB a high-extreme diff.

I consider current BB to be high Yonko tier himself and Prime Ray was clearly a grade above.

We will need to see that, right? We don't know that.

As of now, I consider BB a solid mid-level Yonko.
Prime Rayleigh can be a high-end Yonko tier, and still beat him.