One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LadyVados]

You can't be serious. It was a joke

Old Garp could have killed Akainu. Lots of people have Kaido and Akainu as equals.

I think the old legends lose prolonged fights to modern top tiers but during short bursts they can probably outperform all of them.

 

[grey matter]

@grey matter

RIP to all the Rayleigh downplayers.

He said if he was a little younger he would have soloed BB AND his crew.

Even Current Rayleigh is probably stronger than BB, he just wasn’t sure he could beat BB and his crew.

A slightly younger Ray would have soloed the BB pirates and their crew.

Not even Prime Ray, a slightly younger Ray.

Prime Garp-tier Prime Ray is pretty much guaranteed now. No Yonko not named WB is soloing another Yonko crew. It’s pretty clear from this chapter that Ray was a different level of opponent.

Spoiler

TF.
Imagine thinking that saying prime Rayleigh is high-end Yonko tier is me downplaying Rayleigh lmao.

You still haven't addressed any of my previous points, and continue to strawman.

On bold part: where?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 8, 2022 ---

Valid Points have been made..The PK isn’t a true power level tier…it’s an accomplishment Tier/Title.

Prime Roger & WB we’re Equals. The manga says so, we’ve seen a serious clash in a flashback between the two…Not like Kaido vs BM.

The fan bases Uses PK as a tier because to date no character has risen to the status of Prime WB/Roger.

PK/Yonkou/Fleet Admiral/Admiral are all the same tier…Top Marines/Top Pirates…

Yonkou exist on the same tier as Admirals but Yonkou’s as individuals are stronger.

It’s ok to use low/mid/high for Tier levels. Especially when it makes no sense to differentiate small gaps between opponents….

Yep. The bold parts, exactly the point I and few others are making here.

We call "PK tier" because they were clearly a level above the rest of the Yonkos.
And technically, Yonkos don't need to be super powerful dudes in the same either. They just need an incredibly strong crew, territories and a top tier fighter. Eg: Cross guild, where the Yonko himself is fodder, but there is a top tier fighter in Mihawk within the Yonko crew. Buggy just got the title because he had Mihawk and Crocodile "under" him.

There can be differences within the tier that can lead to conclusive victories, but it doesn't make sense to put them in different tier just because of that. Hence low/mid/high ends within a tier.

Rayleigh imo was Low Yonkou now imo he’s YC1+…

Spoiler

Blackbeard and his crew shuddered from Rayleigh's presence.

Current Rayleigh is low Yonko level, prime Rayleigh is high-end Yonko level.

 

[Rein Avara]

spoiler all your posts please going forward.

 

[grey matter]

What makes you think Boa is weaker than Marco for example? Boa has all 3 types of haki. She definitely isn't any less than Yamato.

I'll reply here since I've got many warnings about powerscaling posts in chapter discussion thread so far lol

So has many characters including Doflamingo, Chinjao, Ace, Katakuri etc
Having all three haki isn't all that to be hyped for, because there are levels to each haki.

- Doflamingo is low commander level, the dude would get owned by Marco.
- Ace is def below Marco.
- Katakuri "lost" to Luffy, and had stats relative to post WCI Luffy. Who got one shot by Kaido (I'm not going to argue about whether that was inconsistent or not). Marco on the other hand has portrayal and feats for the strongest right hand man amongst the three we know of (Kat, King, Marco)

Spoiler

Yamato > Boa
She at least gave Kaido a low-mid diff in straight up combat.

Most potent weapon of Boa is dudes feeling lust for her. If you figure out the trick like Momonga did, or if you're asexual (lol) like Luffy, you're fine there.

 

[XXGenesis]

Spoiler

TF.
Imagine thinking that saying prime Rayleigh is high-end Yonko tier is me downplaying Rayleigh lmao.

You still haven't addressed any of my previous points, and continue to strawman.

On bold part: where?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 8, 2022 ---

Yep. The bold parts, exactly the point I and few others are making here.

We call "PK tier" because they were clearly a level above the rest of the Yonkos.
And technically, Yonkos don't need to be super powerful dudes in the same either. They just need an incredibly strong crew, territories and a top tier fighter. Eg: Cross guild, where the Yonko himself is fodder, but there is a top tier fighter in Mihawk within the Yonko crew. Buggy just got the title because he had Mihawk and Crocodile "under" him.

There can be differences within the tier that can lead to conclusive victories, but it doesn't make sense to put them in different tier just because of that. Hence low/mid/high ends within a tier.

Spoiler

Blackbeard and his crew shuddered from Rayleigh's presence.

Current Rayleigh is low Yonko level, prime Rayleigh is high-end Yonko level.

Spoiler

Blackbeard plays Possum a lot; Prime RayLeigh being high end yonkou tier…I doubt it maybe mid at highest…but if that’s what you speculate be my guess. I just don’t see it.

 

[Fox666]

Spoiler

It does makes sense for Rayleigh to be Yonko level.

He was called a legend which the Marines couldn't handle along with Whitebeard.

Also isn't Zoro supposed to reach his level at the end? If he has to surpass Mihawk, then Zoro will be Yonko level at the end.

I also think the scene of Rayleigh and Gaban preparing to fight Oden implies Gaban may be on a similar level, mimicking the monster trio dynamic.

 

[Qenjin]

There is one thing about blackbeard power level, which i find odd. The guy is fat, we never seen him train. And most of the fights he wins with his df. Yet he is somehow super strong, lifting people off the ground, being fast to sneak up on boa hancoc etc. How he become suddenly so strong? First time we saw him he took tremendous damage from luffy base form and now he is stronger than schichibukais ...

 

[Fox666]

we never seen him train

I think Zoro is the only character ever shown to train

First time we saw him he took tremendous damage from luffy base form

The series is somewhat inconsistent regarding pre-timeskip Luffy

That said, wasn't it like that in every fight Blackbeard was involved? He keeps talking until the enemy strikes. Even Bonney managed to hit Blackbeard

 

[john ellis]

There is one thing about blackbeard power level, which i find odd. The guy is fat, we never seen him train. And most of the fights he wins with his df. Yet he is somehow super strong, lifting people off the ground, being fast to sneak up on boa hancoc etc. How he become suddenly so strong? First time we saw him he took tremendous damage from luffy base form and now he is stronger than schichibukais ...

so was BM and she is one of the fastes tand strongest pirate ever?

 

[Qenjin]

so was BM and she is one of the fastes tand strongest pirate ever?

Yes but BM was presented as prodigy and overall overpowered since she was born. BB wasnt

 

[Fox666]

Yes but BM was presented as prodigy and overall overpowered since she was born. BB wasnt

I think he kinda of was?

Maybe not to the same extend as Big Mom, but he was naturally strong, and got stronger over time through battles.....

 

[khnnoufa]

so was BM and she is one of the fastes tand strongest pirate ever?

I think that he unpredictable

 

[kkck]

Yes but BM was presented as prodigy and overall overpowered since she was born. BB wasnt

BB has been framed as being weird from the get go. Shanks and buggy talk about him not sleeping and marco mentioned his weird body during marineford irrc (might have been someone else). So... it's probably safe to count BB as a monster from the get go, even if different from big mom or kaido.

 

[LadyVados]

Spoiler

TF.
Imagine thinking that saying prime Rayleigh is high-end Yonko tier is me downplaying Rayleigh lmao.

You still haven't addressed any of my previous points, and continue to strawman.

On bold part: where?

Spoiler: 1059

He was a full tier above BB, not just higher up in the same tier. If Old Ray is Low Yonko tier, Prime Ray is Low PK tier. The differences in Yonko tier aren't as big as you are making them out to be. We saw even Kaido and BM fight for days and be portrayed as comparable. Why are you unnecessarily breaking up Yonko tier into so many sub-tiers, forget about Ray, it's just silly from a power scaling perspective. You're like those people who have YC2.5 tier and shit like that. There is only Yonko tier not High Yonko, Mid Yonko, Low Yonko and all this stuff. Whiteboard mid-diffing BM also seems like a step too far though I guess I could see it happening because of her stupidity and Oda making a meme of her.

Also why do you think BB isn't High Yonko tier ? He's portrayed as stronger than Luffy and Luffy is stronger than Kaido. Unless you think Shanks and Mihawk are a whole tier above Kaido ?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Spoiler: 1059

He was a full tier above BB, not just higher up in the same tier. If Old Ray is Low Yonko tier, Prime Ray is Low PK tier. The differences in Yonko tier aren't as big as they are. We saw even Kaido and BM fight for days and be portrayed as comparable. Why are you unnecessarily breaking up Yonko tier into so many sub-tiers, forget about Ray, it's just silly from a power scaling perspective. You're like those people who have YC2.5 tier and shit like that. There is only Yonko tier not High Yonko, Mid Yonko, Low Yonko and all this stuff. Whiteboard mid-diffing BM also seems like a step too far though I guess I could see it happening because of her stupidity and Oda making a meme of her.

This makes no sense. WhT are you even trying to say?

You are seriously over reacting to the new chapter

 

[LadyVados]

This makes no sense. WhT are you even trying to say?

You are seriously over reacting to the new chapter

Spoiler: 1059

Says the person saying the groomer is PK-tier+...

But seriously forget about the chapter. Does this Low Yonko tier, Mid Yonko tier nonsense make sense ? The Yonko are portrayed as comparable to each other what would it say about the balance of powers if one Yonko could get mid-diffed by another ? You were the one complaining about Tobiroppo tier and other stupid unnecessary tiers so I thought you'd agree with me.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Spoiler: 1059

Says the person saying the groomer is PK-tier+...

But seriously forget about the chapter. Does this Low Yonko tier, Mid Yonko tier nonsense make sense ? The Yonko are portrayed as comparable to each other what would it say about the balance of powers if one Yonko could get mid-diffed by another ? You were the one complaining about Tobiroppo tier and other stupid unnecessary tiers so I thought you'd agree with me.

You have lost all credibility with your powerscaling.

Your claimed seriously that Zoro could beat Marineford Whitebeard after he scarred Kaido

You claimed current Luffy loses to King

You claimed Mihawk was not a pirate once it was revealed Kaido was the World's Strongest Pirate and thus stronger than Kaido

And now your claiming Old Ray is stronger than Kaido but would lose due to stamina issues.(which probably means you think the same for Shanks, but somehow not Mihawk. Wonder why?)

Idk what claim is more outrageous but no one should take what you say seriously. You don't even try to understand the manga.

At least when I joke about Hacock being Pirate King level+ people know I'm joking because I love Hancock so much. You actually believe what you are saying

 

[grey matter]

Spoiler

He was a full tier above BB, not just higher up in the same tier. If Old Ray is Low Yonko tier, Prime Ray is Low PK tier.

Spoiler

Was he though? He just said he could win, doesn't mean he is necessarily a tier above.

I will believe he is that tier, when I see something that conclusively put him at that level. For example, some character statement of him relative to Roger/Garp/WB, some flashback of him in God Valley etc

The differences in Yonko tier aren't as big as you are making them out to be. We saw even Kaido and BM fight for days and be portrayed as comparable. are a whole tier above Kaido ?

I disagree.

Yeah, they fought for a long time, but they didn't get actually serious. It was their way of "greeting" after so long, they were trading attacks.
The best that can be argued from that is BM and Kaido have comparable haki, attack power, durability and physical strength.

Kaido still has future sight, as well as superior combat-speed/CQC even without FS.
Kaido will high-extreme diff BM (closer to high) in a completely serious fight.

So yeah, I think Kaido is on the higher end of that tier, BM on the low-mid end of that tier.

Why are you unnecessarily breaking up Yonko tier into so many sub-tiers, forget about Ray, it's just silly from a power scaling perspective. You're like those people who have YC2.5 tier and shit like that.

Because it makes sense to do so.
Just because people are in same tier, doesn't mean there isn't variation within that tier. It's common sense.

I don't think anyone except BM fans are gonna argue that Kaido and BM are actually equal. Kaido is clearly stronger, both by portrayal and feats. Yet they are in the same tier.

Also why do you think BB isn't High Yonko tier ? He's portrayed as stronger than Luffy and Luffy is stronger than Kaido. Unless you think Shanks and Mihawk are a whole tier above Kaido ?

Because I don't think Luffy is a high end Yonko tier.

No, I have Kaido above current Luffy.
Kaido went down as a result of a massive gauntlet, all the while he was lifting up an island across the sea (Momo fainted just from pushing it a fraction of that distance)

I have current BB above current Luffy, while also simultaneously below prime Rayleigh. And still be in same tier. Why not? Characters in a tier can be stronger than other character in the same tier.

Spoiler

High : Kaido, Shanks, Mihawk, prime Rayleigh
Mid : Blackbeard, Luffy, Akainu
Low: BM, Aokiji, rest of admirals. old Rayleigh

Akainu is subject to change

 

[Fox666]

No, I have Kaido above current Luffy.
Kaido went down as a result of a massive gauntlet, all the while he was lifting up an island across the sea (Momo fainted just from pushing it a fraction of that distance)

The manga made this clear, didn't it? Kaido was at its limit due to the many fights he had.

 

[LaGOAT]

You have lost all credibility with your powerscaling.

Your claimed seriously that Zoro could beat Marineford Whitebeard after he scarred Kaido

You claimed current Luffy loses to King

You claimed Mihawk was not a pirate once it was revealed Kaido was the World's Strongest Pirate and thus stronger than Kaido

And now your claiming Old Ray is stronger than Kaido but would lose due to stamina issues.(which probably means you think the same for Shanks, but somehow not Mihawk. Wonder why?)

Idk what claim is more outrageous but no one should take what you say seriously. You don't even try to understand the manga.

At least when I joke about Hacock being Pirate King level+ people know I'm joking because I love Hancock so much. You actually believe what you are saying

I’m a zoro fanboy. but I ain’t that delusional