One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

Naah, the magic works, as shown with the Fool, Reversed card during his encounter with Luffy and Zoro.

Wether that's enough to defeat Killer is another question. It's a stupid fighting style anyways.

Naah, if it wasn't strong enough to defeat Killer, why would I believe it's strong enough to boost Kid and Law above Big Mom's haki?

By your logic, should we attribute Luffy surpassing Kaido to his card magic as well? Gear 5 awakening as well?

Law and Kid were not surprised their powers were now working on Big Mom, and Law never affected her with any non-awakening abilities. They both simply started using their awakenings and it was natural for them that it worked on her.

 

[McNuss]

Naah, if it wasn't strong enough to defeat Killer, why would I believe it's strong enough to boost Kid and Law above Big Mom's haki?

By your logic, should we attribute Luffy surpassing Kaido to his card magic as well? Gear 5 awakening as well?

Well, kinda...It's the Worst Generation, after all.

 

[albertwv]

But as soon as Law used his awakening he suddenly could affect Big Mom and Kaido, and so could Kid, despite their own haki not improving in that short time.

So even a Yonko's haki can officially be bypassed now with hax powers.

Not exactly. Kid asked Law to separate one of the Yonko with his powers. But Law stated he couldn't because their haki was too powerful. So I'm thinking Law could not teleport nor dissect them with his DF like he could with anybody else. Hell I don't think Law could have dissected Doffy back in Dressrosa, only teleport him.
Law's other abilities though were affecting the Yonko, such as Gamma Knife and Injection shot. But only his teleportation and dissection were not able to.
Once Law started using his Awakening, he still couldn't teleport or dissect Big Mom, but he was able to do other attacks on her that affected her even more.
I remember in Punk Hazard, Doffy was confident that Vergo's haki would prevent him from being dissected by Law, but obviously he underestimated how strong Law had gotten.

So maybe having strong enough Haki can bypass Hancock's stone hax ability. If not then that DF is too powerful and I highly doubt Oda would create such a fruit with no drawback.
Besides Hancock's ability to turn people into stone, what feats does she have above a YC3 or close to a YC1?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Not exactly. Kid asked Law to separate one of the Yonko with his powers. But Law stated he couldn't because their haki was too powerful. So I'm thinking Law could not teleport nor dissect them with his DF like he could with anybody else. Hell I don't think Law could have dissected Doffy back in Dressrosa, only teleport him.
Law's other abilities though were affecting the Yonko, such as Gamma Knife and Injection shot. But only his teleportation and dissection were not able to.
Once Law started using his Awakening, he still couldn't teleport or dissect Big Mom, but he was able to do other attacks on her that affected her even more.
I remember in Punk Hazard, Doffy was confident that Vergo's haki would prevent him from being dissected by Law, but obviously he underestimated how strong Law had gotten.

So maybe having strong enough Haki can bypass Hancock's stone hax ability. If not then that DF is too powerful and I highly doubt Oda would create such a fruit with no drawback.
Besides Hancock's ability to turn people into stone, what feats does she have above a YC3 or close to a YC1?

There is a drawback to the fruit. You literally have to be the most beautiful woman in the world to be the most hax the DC can provide

If Hancock ages and turns into a Big Mom like character.. Her DF stops working.

She can't stay the most beautiful forever. Eventually her looks will fade.

 

[albertwv]

There is a drawback to the fruit. You literally have to be the most beautiful woman in the world to be the most hax the DC can provide

If Hancock ages and turns into a Big Mom like character.. Her DF stops working.

She can't stay the most beautiful forever. Eventually her looks will fade.

Actually the DF works if a person is attractive to that DF user. Since Hancock is extremely beautiful and attractive to basically 99% of the OP world, her DF works great. Hell if BM had her DF I'm sure she would be able to still turn some people into stone, like for example maybe her ex husbands, since they were attractive to her at some point in life.
So I think top tiers like the Yonko or some Admirals would be able to control their emotions and not be attracted to her and thus her DF stone power would be useless.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Actually the DF works if a person is attractive to that DF user. Since Hancock is extremely beautiful and attractive to basically 99% of the OP world, her DF works great. Hell if BM had her DF I'm sure she would be able to still turn some people into stone, like for example maybe her ex husbands, since they were attractive to her at some point in life.
So I think top tiers like the Yonko or some Admirals would be able to control their emotions and not be attracted to her and thus her DF stone power would be useless.

This was proven incorrect this very chapter when one of the 5 strongest characters in the verse and a Uonko was afraid to leat her go or she would have instantly turned him to stone. So no, it is factually inaccurate lol. And we ha e direct manga evidence here.

 

[albertwv]

This was proven incorrect this very chapter when one of the 5 strongest characters in the verse and a Uonko was afraid to leat her go or she would have instantly turned him to stone. So no, it is factually inaccurate lol. And we ha e direct manga evidence here.

You're right. I should have been more specific, instead of saying Yonko. I meant White Beard, Kaido, BM, Shanks, Akainu, Garp (maybe), Mihawk, King, Katakuri. I believe they are all superior to her and would be able to resist her beauty and not turn to stone.
Blackbeard himself would not be able to as you stated.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You're right. I should have been more specific, instead of saying Yonko. I meant White Beard, Kaido, BM, Shanks, Akainu, Garp (maybe), Mihawk, King, Katakuri. I believe they are all superior to her and would be able to resist her beauty and not turn to stone.
Blackbeard himself would not be able to as you stated.

What are you basing that on?

They can control their outward emotions. But not their inner emotions. Which is what turns you to Stone. Unless you want to argue the people you named are asexual and you have evidence of it, why wouldn't they be effected by hancock..

They would need to hurt themselves like Momonga did

 

[XXGenesis]

Not exactly. Kid asked Law to separate one of the Yonko with his powers. But Law stated he couldn't because their haki was too powerful. So I'm thinking Law could not teleport nor dissect them with his DF like he could with anybody else. Hell I don't think Law could have dissected Doffy back in Dressrosa, only teleport him.
Law's other abilities though were affecting the Yonko, such as Gamma Knife and Injection shot. But only his teleportation and dissection were not able to.
Once Law started using his Awakening, he still couldn't teleport or dissect Big Mom, but he was able to do other attacks on her that affected her even more.
I remember in Punk Hazard, Doffy was confident that Vergo's haki would prevent him from being dissected by Law, but obviously he underestimated how strong Law had gotten.

So maybe having strong enough Haki can bypass Hancock's stone hax ability. If not then that DF is too powerful and I highly doubt Oda would create such a fruit with no drawback.
Besides Hancock's ability to turn people into stone, what feats does she have above a YC3 or close to a YC1?

You are correct on Haki’s interaction with DF powers. We have 2 instances where a DF power was limited in its effect against a greater Haki user. How efficient is Strong haki in defending against DF powers?? One of my issues is the obscurity of the fundamentals of the power system called haki.

 

[Fox666]

Which seems to be pretty unfair and kinda unstoppable from 99.8% of the OP world. Doubt Oda would make it like that.
I feel that Haki MAY stop her power. I say this because Law's DF was pretty unstoppable too but he himself stated that he could not use his DF against the likes of Kaido or Big Mom due to their haki.
We have no proof the haki can indeed overcome Hancock's DF but that is my guess.

But Blackbeard said Hancock could transform him, so...

Law's ability didn't worked on Haki, until he used awakening, which bypassed that?

 

[HereNThere]

Hancock's main ability is petrification. It's inherently broken, similar to Law's ability.

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that it's possible that Hancock's basic Mero Mero Beam can be mitigated by Haki similar to how Law's basic Amputate and Shambles cannot be used against the Yonkou. But when it comes to her more advanced techniques, it's all fair game to everyone.

Law was still able to use techniques like Counter Shock, Injection Shot, and Gamma Knife against the Yonkou and hurt them.

Hancock's Slave Arrows and Perfume Femur are advanced techniques that we know for a fact can petrify nonsentient/inanimate objects, so it's unlikely her petrification can be completely negated since, again, that's her main ability.

Now, against stronger individuals, you can potentially argue that Slave Arrow won't cause full-body petrification, but it should still petrify whatever it hits. And the only reason we can argue that is because they are some of the strongest characters in the series and it's unlikely that Oda would put them in that sort of position, for one reason or another. That said, there is more evidence showing the contrary at the moment. However, I imagine if Oda were asked, he'd probably come up with reasons why they don't view her with lust to prevent them from being insta-ganked by her ability.

Whitebeard: Too young for him/views her as a daughter.
Kaido: Hate for humans overrides his lust.
Big Mom: Hornied Out or strictly attracted to men.
Akainu: Hatred for pirates overrides his lust.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

But Blackbeard said Hancock could transform him, so...

Law's ability didn't worked on Haki, until he used awakening, which bypassed that?

Didn’t get the impression that BB has overwhelming haki in the tier of shanks roger linlin and kaido

 

[Fox666]

Didn’t get the impression that BB has overwhelming haki in the tier of shanks roger linlin and kaido

Of course he has overwhelming Haki

 

[hokageji]

Of course he has overwhelming Haki

remains to be seen... but he has two DFs.... it took two awakened DF users to take down one Yonko. Blackbeard could easily do that too... Haki is just a tool, its not a requirement.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 14, 2022 ---

and besides, BB's Df gives him an advantage over DF... he can step into a place and use black hole to suck out all users dry... His main weakness is reliance on his DF ability, as mentioned by WB. BB vs Shanks is happening, and that's going to be way more intersting

 

[Nie Li]

remains to be seen... but he has two DFs.... it took two awakened DF users to take down one Yonko. Blackbeard could easily do that too... Haki is just a tool, its not a requirement.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 14, 2022 ---

and besides, BB's Df gives him an advantage over haki... he can step into a place and use black hole to suck out all users dry... His main weakness is reliance on his DF ability, as mentioned by WB. BB vs Shanks is happening, and that's going to be way more intersting

His DF doesn't suck haki, though? It gives him an advantage on DF users but not on haki users.

 

[hokageji]

His DF doesn't suck haki, though? It gives him an advantage on DF users but not on haki users.

yea, which is why Shanks vs BB will be so interesting...thank you pointing out, edited my post

 

[McNuss]

Some layout updates for better readability, ill edit this with character updates later on. All characters are sorted by their current affiliation.

• Throne Tier
  • (wg)Im, Monkey D. Garp, Sakazuki,
  • (rhp)Shanks
  • (bb)Kuzan, Marshall D. Teach (Post-Timeskip)
  • (shp)Monkey D. Luffy (Awakening)
  • (bmbp)Charlotte Linlin (&Napoleon, Prometheus, Zeus/Hera), Kaido
  • (†)Edward Newgate
• Throne Challenger Tier
  • (wg)Issho, Aramaki, Borsalino, Sengoku, Kong
  • (bb)Marshall D. Teach (Gura Gura No Mi), Shiryu (Suke Suke No Mi)
  • (shp)Monkey D. Luffy (Advanced Haki), Roronoa Zoro (Wano Arc), Yamato, Zunesha
  • (ra)Sabo (Mera Mera No Mi)
  • (hp)Trafalgar Law (Awakening)
  • (kp)Eustass Kid (Awakening),
  • (kj)Silvers Rayleigh
  • (spx)Marco

• New World Diamond Tier
  • (wg)Tokikake, Gion, Tensei, Sentomaru, Magellan
  • (bb)Marshall D. Teach (start), Shiryu (no Df)
  • (shp)Monkey D. Luffy (Post-Timeskip), Roronoa Zoro (Post-Timeskip), Vinsmoke Sanji (Wano Arc), Jinbe, Nightmare Luffy
  • (ra)Sabo (no DF)
  • (hp)Trafalgar Law (Post-Timeskip)
  • (kp)Killer (Post-Timeskip)
  • (bmbp)Charlotte Katakuri, Charlotte Cracker, King, Queen, Jack, Charlotte Smoothie
  • (dqxf)Donquixote Doflamingo
  • (?)Jozu (Two-Armed), Vista
  • (†)Portgas D. Ace
• New World Platinum Tier
  • (wg)Momonga, Comil, Smoker (current), Tsuru, John Giant, Guernica
  • (bb)Jesus Burgess (Post-Timeskip)
  • (shp)Inuarashi, Nekomamushi, Vinsmoke Sanji (Raid Suit), Franky (Post-Timeskip)
  • (cg)Crocodile (Marineford)
  • (oap)Scratchmen Apoo
  • (lg)Dorry, Broggy
  • (bmbp)Charlotte Perospero, Charlotte Snack, Count Niwatori, Ulti, Who's Who
  • (dqxf)Pica
  • (?)Gecko Moria (&Oars)
  • (†)Vergo, Jaguar D. Saul, Oars, Little Oars Jr., Maha, Izo, Ashura Doji
• New World Gold Tier
  • (wg)Stainless, Cancer, Mozambia, Onigumo, Doberman, Strawberry, Yamakaji, Lacroix, Lonz, Dalmatian, Bastille, Nazu Ketagari, Draw, X Drake (Post-Timeskip), Rob Lucci (Pre-Timeskip), Kyros
  • (shp)Roronoa Zoro (Ashura, Shusui), Shishilian, Bartolomeo, Cavendish (&Farul), Sai (Don Sai), Monkey D. Luffy (Gears), Nami (Zeus Tact), Vinsmoke Sanji (Post-Timeskip), Tony Tony Chopper (Rumble Upgrade), Nico Robin (Post-Timeskip), Chinjao (head flattened), Brook (Post-Timeskip), Fuga
  • (g66)Caesar Clown
  • (g)Enel
  • (bmbp)Viscount Hiyoko, Charlotte Oven, Charlotte Daifuku, Sasaki, Black Maria (&Wanyudo)
  • (dqxf)Diamante, Trebol
  • (nfp)Hody Jones (Second Overdose)
  • (?)Basil Hawkins (Post-Timeskip)
  • (†)Pedro
• New World Silver
  • (wg)Sicily, Akehende, Catacombo, Hina (current), T Bone (current), Kadar, X Drake (Pre-Timeskip), Smoker (Pre-Timeskip), Maynard, Koby (current), Sadi, Hannyabal (Pre-Timeskip)
  • (shp)Roronoa Zoro (Iron Cutting, Flying Sword Slashes), Nami (Wukong Tact), Tony Tony Chopper (Post-Timeskip), Ideo, Sai (start), Chinjao (head restored)
  • (cg)Crocodile (start)
  • (bmbp)Baron Tamago, Page One, Inbi, Zanki, Jaki, Goki, Rokki, Nangi, Hatcha, Kunyun, Juki
  • (dqxf)Gladius, Dellinger, Lao G
  • (nfp)Hody Jones (Overdose), Hyouzou (Overdose)
  • (?)Gecko Moria
  • (†)Monet
• New World Bronze
  • (wg)Daigin, Yarisugi, Brannew (Post-Timeskip), Tashigi (current), Kaku (Pre-Timeskip), Jabra, Minotaurus, Minokoala, Minorhinoceros, Minozebra, Minochihuahua,
  • (shp)Nico Robin (Pre-Skip), Roronoa Zoro (Loguetown Swords), Monkey D. Luffy (start), Vinsmoke Sanji (Diable Jambe), Nami (Post-Timeskip), Usopp (Post Timeskip, CoO), Tony Tony Chopper (start), Baby 5, Bellamy (Post-Timeskip), Chinjao (head broken), Blue Gilly
  • (cg)Daz Bones
  • (kj)Boa Marigold, Boa Sandersonia
  • (sky)Viper
  • (-)Chadros Hygelyges (Crocotaur)
  • (dqxf)Senor Pink, Machvise, Hajrudin
  • (nfp)Hody Jones, Hyouzou
  • (†)Absalom, Ryuma (Zombie), Bobbin

• New World Challenger Tier
  • (wg)Very Good, Shu, Sharinguru, Gorilla, Helmeppo (current), Hina (Pre-Timeskip), T Bone (Pre-Timeskip), Pell, Chaka, Dalton, Wapol, Bruno, Kalifa, Fukurou, Kumadori
  • (shp)Vinsmoke Sanji (start), Roronoa Zoro (start), Nami (Perfect Clima Tact), Bellamy, Usopp (Kabuto, Kuwagata), Franky (start), Gambia, Suleiman, Brook (Pre-Timeskip)
  • (cg)Buggy (Muggy Balls), Alvida (slim)
  • (kj)Ran, Daisy, Cosmos, Rindo, Blue Fan, Marguerite (Post-Timeskip), Sweet Pea (Post-Timeskip), Aphelandra (Post Timeskip)
  • (spc)Zala
  • (-)Perona, Chadros Hygelyges (Pre-Timeskip)
  • (dqxf)Buffalo
  • (ap)Arlong
  • (?)Chessmarimo, Satori, Gedatsu, Shura (&Fuza), Aum
• Paradise Diamond Tier
  • (wg)Wanze
  • (shp)Usopp (Dials), Nami (Clima Tact)
  • (cg)Buggy (start), Galdino,
  • (kj)Marguerite (Pre-Timeskip), Sweet Pea (Pre-Timeskip), Aphelandra (Pre-Timeskip), Kikyo, Belladonna, Enishida, Nerine, Poppy, Pansy
  • (sky)Brahm, Kamakiri
  • (spc)Babe (&Lassoo), Drophy,
  • (sya)Shojo
  • (nkl)Bentham,
  • (-)Hatchan
  • (dqxf)Giolla
  • (ap)Kuroobi, Chew
  • (krp)Krieg, Gin
  • (bcp)Kuro
  • (?)Chess, Kuromarimo, Yama, Sarquiss, Nero
  • (†)Donquixote Rosinante
• Paradise Platinum Tier
  • (wg)Fullbody (current), Jango (current), Igaram, Jerry
  • (shp)Usopp (start)
  • (sky)Genbo
  • (spc)Gem, Mikita
  • (sya)Masira
  • (krp)Pearl
  • (bcp)Buchi (Hypnotized)
  • (-)Kyuin
  • (†)Pudding Pudding
• Paradise Gold Tier
  • (wg)Nezumi, Zotto, Fullbody (Pre-Skip), Jango (Pre-Skip)
  • (shp)Nefertari Vivi (&Karoo, Pre-Skip)
  • (cg)Kabahji (Pre-Skip), Mohji (&Richie, Pre-Skip)
  • (sky)Raki
  • (-)Morgan
  • (?)Hotori, Kotori
• Paradise Silver Tier
  • (wg)Ripper, Stalker
  • (cg)Alvida (fat)
  • (bcp)Buchi
  • (?)Mr. 7, Miss Father's Day
• Paradise Bronze Tier
  • (wg)Makko, Tashigi (Pre-Skip),
  • (bcp)Sham,
  • (-)Mr. 9, Miss Monday

• Paradise Challenger Tier
  • (?)Miss Tuesday, Mr. 10
• Blue Diamond Tier
  • (wg)Rokkaku
  • (†)Mr. 11
• Blue Platinum Tier
  • (wg)Asahija, Mashikaku, Shine
• Blue Gold Tier
  • (shp)Nami (start)
  • (-)Miss Friday, Mr. 13
• Blue Silver Tier
  • (?)Billions, Akumai, Mr. Mellow, Mr. Love
  • (†)Lines
• Blue Bronze Tier
  • (cg)Acrobatic Fuwas, Superhuman Domingos, Tightrope Walking Funan Bros
  • (?)Millions, Miss Catherina, Mr. Beans, Mr. Shimizu
• Poop Tier
  • (wg)Mansion Guards, Johnny, Yosaku, Genzo
• Civilian Tier
  • (wg)Koby (start), Helmeppo (start), Ukkari, Makino, Woop Slap, Rika, Ririka, Boodle, Poro, Kaya, Mornin, Merry

 

[albertwv]

What are you basing that on?

They can control their outward emotions. But not their inner emotions. Which is what turns you to Stone. Unless you want to argue the people you named are asexual and you have evidence of it, why wouldn't they be effected by hancock..

They would need to hurt themselves like Momonga did

It's just my opinion. I have nothing to back that claim up. I just don't think Oda would make the top tiers look like fools by letting themselves swan over Hancock and lose thus making Hancock the strongest pirate or person, if she could indeed turn to stone WB, Roger, Akainu, Shanks, Kaido, etc.
it's the same reason why I don't think Sugar could defeat those said top tiers, because if she could then she would be the strongest, and no reason for her to be working under Doffy OR Doffy would use Sugar as a weapon against Kaido or said top tiers.
That's why I believe that Sugar's DF would not work on the top tiers, but I have no factual evidence to back that up.

But you didn't answer me, when Hancock use CoO, she may as well have it but I don't recall being mentioned. Also just because she may have all 3 basic hakis , it doesn't make her a master of them unless she can wield their advance forms. Hancock has yet too show any advance haki.

 

[Nie Li]

It's just my opinion. I have nothing to back that claim up. I just don't think Oda would make the top tiers look like fools by letting themselves swan over Hancock and lose thus making Hancock the strongest pirate or person, if she could indeed turn to stone WB, Roger, Akainu, Shanks, Kaido, etc.
it's the same reason why I don't think Sugar could defeat those said top tiers, because if she could then she would be the strongest, and no reason for her to be working under Doffy OR Doffy would use Sugar as a weapon against Kaido or said top tiers.
That's why I believe that Sugar's DF would not work on the top tiers, but I have no factual evidence to back that up.

But you didn't answer me, when Hancock use CoO, she may as well have it but I don't recall being mentioned. Also just because she may have all 3 basic hakis , it doesn't make her a master of them unless she can wield their advance forms. Hancock has yet too show any advance haki.

That Blackbeard said so himself is the best we have to go on: Even top tiers can be affected by her.

However, her ability can be dodged, just like Sugar needs to touch you, Hancock needs to either hit you physically or with her beams or arrows. Hancock has a power that can bring down a Yonko, but Blackbeard also showed us she's not getting them.

This is like King having above Yonko-tier durability with his flames on: he still obviously wasn't Yonko-tier because the rest of his skill asset wasn't up there.

 

[Pirate Queen]

It's just my opinion. I have nothing to back that claim up. I just don't think Oda would make the top tiers look like fools by letting themselves swan over Hancock and lose thus making Hancock the strongest pirate or person, if she could indeed turn to stone WB, Roger, Akainu, Shanks, Kaido, etc.
it's the same reason why I don't think Sugar could defeat those said top tiers, because if she could then she would be the strongest, and no reason for her to be working under Doffy OR Doffy would use Sugar as a weapon against Kaido or said top tiers.
That's why I believe that Sugar's DF would not work on the top tiers, but I have no factual evidence to back that up.

But you didn't answer me, when Hancock use CoO, she may as well have it but I don't recall being mentioned. Also just because she may have all 3 basic hakis , it doesn't make her a master of them unless she can wield their advance forms. Hancock has yet too show any advance haki.

It was revealed in a vivre card she has all 3 haki's and on Amazon Lily it was stated she was their best haki user, I believe during Luffy's fight with the sisters.

You can be a haki master without mastering all the advanced forms. Being able to utilize haki with complete control proves your mastery. She has utilized haki for years.

Luffy had CoC mastered during Fishman Island when he knocked out 50,000 Fishman. Even without advanced forms he had mastery of it

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 15, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 15, 2022 ---

Yeah, a yonko backed by 2 Commanders, a crew of lower levels and an army of marines was able to get ahold of Hancock.

In a 1v1, where Hancock doesn't have to worry about wasting energy on complete fodder, she puts up a better performance against BB, possibly even beats him outright.

At a minimum you can put Hancock in the YC1+ level but there is one one else on that level that can beat her.