One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yes I see tendrils but that alone isn't enough to conclude that BB has aCoC.

This is basic CoA and still looks more haki like then the example from this current chapter

Spoiler: Katakuri uses zangiri mochi

Since when did we have these rules about the lighting width and pattern? I haven't seen evidence of this type of consistency by Oda.

It's called paying attention to the manga.

Advanced CoC has a different presentation than CoA black bolt. Can you not SEE the difference?

I gave you everything you need with the 2 panels

 

[DeadlyBeast]

It's called paying attention to the manga.

Advanced CoC has a different presentation than CoA black bolt. Can you not SEE the difference?

I gave you everything you need with the 2 panels

You gave this panel with two thin wispy black lighting lines

There are 0 characters shown with the black lighting. There isn't even proof that haki is being used just an assumption let alone that it's aCoC. You also made up some rules about the black lightning that haven't been consistently shown or stated anywhere in the manga.

There are far more impressive looking examples of black haki lighting from just regular CoA and CoC use than this so called evidence.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yeah its hard to tell if BB does indeed have ACoC as of yet. I saw that as a Gura Gura Punch, not an ACoC attack. I'll wait before I pass judgement and make statements.
If anything with that Law mentioned about Haki overpowering the DF power, I think it lowers Hancock's presumed level of YC1+. Although I never saw her as that powerful.
So Im sure Kaido, Shanks and BM could overpower Hancock's DF stone power and defeat her easily. Just because BB stated he would turn to stone doesn't necessarily mean he is weaker than her or that she is near peer to him. He did manage to capture her kinda unscathed and could have killed her if Rayleigh didn't show up.

I see Hancock as a YC3 comparable to DD, with actually DD having better feats and overall power. Hancock unfortunately hasn't shown us her overall strength but so far I see her as strong or weaker than DD. I know this will piss off many fans.

Yeah, thats nonsense.

It's not passing anyone off. Your just wrong.

Blackbeard said she could defeat him if he let go of her. Come on now...

You gave this panel with two thin wispy black lighting lines

There are 0 characters shown with the black lighting. There isn't even proof that haki is being used just an assumption let alone that it's aCoC.

There are far more impressive looking examples of black haki lighting from just regular CoA and CoC use than this so called evidence.

There are plenty of examples. Go look. No use of CoA impact blots look like AcoC tendrils.

Your simply choosing to ignore the evidence

 

[DeadlyBeast]

There are plenty of examples. Go look. No use of CoA impact blots look like AcoC tendrils.

Your simply choosing to ignore the evidence

Here are some examples of black haki lighting that we know aren't aCoC but still look better (are more prominent) than your evidence

You're just choosing to make up your own rules about black lighting analysis in OP to conclude that this chapter showed aCoC. On top of that you are claiming that aCoC came from Blackbeard without any evidence to back it up.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Here are some examples of black haki lighting that we know aren't aCoC but still look better (are more prominent) than your evidence

You're just choosing to make up your own rules about black lighting analysis in OP to conclude that this chapter showed aCoC. On top of that you are claiming that aCoC came from Blackbeard without any evidence to back it up.

Those are CoA black bolts. Advanced CoC has intertwining black lightening tendrils...

Just say you can't tell the difference....

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Those are CoA black bolts. Advanced CoC has intertwining black lightening tendrils...

Just say you can't tell the difference....

You literally made up some rule about tendrils & aCoC. I can make up stuff too like I'll say aCoC doesn't need tendrils. Boom done.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You literally made up some rule about tendrils & aCoC. I can make up stuff too like I'll say aCoC doesn't need tendrils. Boom done.

I literally didn't.

You can't see the difference between how haki is presented. I'd get my eyes checked if I were you buddy. But we can end here.

How do you even the CoA was used when it was coming out of the water???

CoA lightening is done when there is actual impact. Some hitting something...

Jesus, that is so simple

 

[Fox666]

You literally made up some rule about tendrils & aCoC. I can make up stuff too like I'll say aCoC doesn't need tendrils. Boom done.

I get your point

CoC-infusion is not something you can tell 100% by just looking at the black lighting

But I do agree with Pirate Queen, this is CoC-infusion

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I get your point

CoC-infusion is not something you can tell 100% by just looking at the black lighting

But I do agree with Pirate Queen, this is CoC-infusion

Regular CoC clashes have shown the same type of lighting (tendrils as PQ worded it) too so to me it's just not enough evidence to make the claim BB has aCoC.

We also have some examples of aCoC where there isn't any tendrils

I actually believe it's very possible forBB to have aCoC. I just don't think what's presented in this chapter is enough evidence to say that, especially when we don't even know if BB is a CoC user in general.

 

[albertwv]

Im with @DeadlyBeast . Im not going to conclude that BB has ACoC due to that one panel. BB may very well have ACoC going by narrative but I'll wait to see more. DeadlyBeast is just stating that it's still too early too tell and I'm with him on that.
@Pirate Queen, you just want to give BB ACoC so you can push your narrative that Hancock is near Yonko level. BB did state that if he let her go he would be turned to stone, but you're forgetting how easily he captured her and could have killed her if Rayleigh didn't show up. So no Hancock is NOT near BB's level, much less the other Yonkos.
Narrative wise, Hancock hasn't shown great feats beyond a YC3. All she had going for was her stone turning ability but with Law's statement that with enough haki they can overcome the DF ability, then I wouldn't be surprised if Kaido, Shanks and BM and maybe even YC1s would be immune to it.
Like I said this will make fans upset and it did.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Im with @DeadlyBeast . Im not going to conclude that BB has ACoC due to that one panel. BB may very well have ACoC going by narrative but I'll wait to see more. DeadlyBeast is just stating that it's still too early too tell and I'm with him on that.
@Pirate Queen, you just want to give BB ACoC so you can push your narrative that Hancock is near Yonko level. BB did state that if he let her go he would be turned to stone, but you're forgetting how easily he captured her and could have killed her if Rayleigh didn't show up. So no Hancock is NOT near BB's level, much less the other Yonkos.
Narrative wise, Hancock hasn't shown great feats beyond a YC3. All she had going for was her stone turning ability but with Law's statement that with enough haki they can overcome the DF ability, then I wouldn't be surprised if Kaido, Shanks and BM and maybe even YC1s would be immune to it.
Like I said this will make fans upset and it did.

Kaido got a cheap shot in on Oden and he was yonko level. And Oden outright slashed Kaido out of the sky and nearly killed him.

Bb blindsided Hancock after she soloed 2 Yonko commanders and a battalion of marines without a scratch.

Hancock is vastly being downplayed. She is near Yonko level and there is actual Canon evidence of her being able to defeat a yonko outright, due to said Yonko outright admitting it.

No other yonko Commander level character can outright defeat a yonko, even with a free shot and you know it.

Seeing actual evidence of BB using ACoC with your own eyes and you still refuse to believe is just wild.

And I'm not upset at your opinion. I'm upset you used your own eyes to interpret a panel in way that has no factual basis for it.

I don't care about your Hancock opinion. I'm annoyed at you being wrong BB having ACoC lol

That being said, I can wait till he uses it again to rub it in yo face

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Seeing actual evidence of BB using ACoC with your own eyes and you still refuse to believe is just wild.

This is currently opinion and not fact. That's my only issue with it.

 

[Pirate Queen]

This is currently opinion and not fact. That's my only issue with it.

This is currently your opinion that BB didn't use ACoC despite the manga showing BB using ACoC

 

[DeadlyBeast]

This is currently your opinion that BB didn't use ACoC despite the manga showing BB using ACoC

Thanks for confirming your opinion.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Imagine not being able to interpret obvious panels, that's just wild to me

Let's use that argument somewhere else:

Luffy defeated Crocodile in Alabasta

"Nah that's opinion not a fact."

"What? It just happened on panel."

"Nah there isn't enough evidence to say Luffy defeated Crocodile."

"What? It literally happened in the manga."

"No. I'm not saying Luffy won't defeat Crocodile, I'm just saying we need more evidence."

"Luffy defeated Crocodile tho"

"That's just your opinion. Thanks for clarifying."

 

[DeadlyBeast]

The reality of our conversation is more like this:

Pirate Queen

BB is a CONFRIMED Advanced CoC user with this latest chapter reveal.

Deadly Beast

I can believe BB has aCoC but nothing from this chapter is proof of that. The only black lighting looking thing we saw in this chapter didn't even show a character nor did it indicate haki. For all we know that was just regular CoA haki combined with Gura Gura.

Pirate Queen

You can literally see the black lightening tendrils.

CoA are thin black lines. ACoC are thicker intertwined black lightening strikes

Deadly Beast

Yes I see tendrils but that alone isn't enough to conclude that BB has aCoC.

Since when did we have these rules about the lighting width and pattern? I haven't seen evidence of this type of consistency by Oda.

Pirate Queen

It's called paying attention to the manga.

Advanced CoC has a different presentation than CoA black bolt. Can you not SEE the difference?

I gave you everything you need with the 2 panels

Deadly Beast

You gave this panel with two thin wispy black lighting lines

There are 0 characters shown with the black lighting. There isn't even proof that haki is being used just an assumption let alone that it's aCoC. You also made up some rules about the black lightning that haven't been consistently shown or stated anywhere in the manga.

There are far more impressive looking examples of black haki lighting from just regular CoA and CoC use than this so called evidence.

Pirate Queen

There are plenty of examples. Go look. No use of CoA impact blots look like AcoC tendrils.

Your simply choosing to ignore the evidence

Clearly our convo didn't go anywhere because we have very different standards on what constitutes CONFIRMED use of aCoC by a character. My standard of evidence just requires more than what has been shown.

 

[albertwv]

@Pirate Queen
You keep ignoring the context around the BB vs Hancock. Yes, BB did state that if he were to let go of her, he would turn her into stone. This does not necessarily mean that Hancock > BB or that she is Yonko level fighter. You are ignoring everything else around. She used her stone turning ability to turn the other YCs and marines. Thanks to her DF Hancock can one shot many characters but not necessarily be stronger than them. Just like Sugar can do so too.
BB managed somehow to turn her DF power off and grab her by the neck. As I keep repeating, BB would have killed Hancock if Rayleigh had not shown up. To me that shows that Hancock is NOT anywhere near Yonko level.
So far what we've seen on the actual manga is that Hancock is not near the strength of certain YC level characters. Understand this, she may very well be YC1 or above but so far we have not yet seen her fully in action just like we haven't seen Weevil but some people like to place him at YC1 and above.
I would wait until we see more of Hancock, because it seems its only due to her stone turning ability that she could possibly defeat BB. If it wasn't for that overpowered ability than she stands no chance. But as I keep repeating myself, it seems that Haki can overcome the stone turning ability, from what we learned from Law.
So I don't see Hancock turning Kaido or Shanks or other Yonko level characters into stone. You have no basis to claim she is on their level.

You comparing Luffy vs Crocodile panels and BB "using" ACoC are way out of context. That was an extremely bad comparison. Luffy vs Crocodile had more substantial evidence than BB "using" ACoC. BB may very well have ACoC but Im waiting to see more of it before I claim it. Just like I remember Moe claiming that Law had CoC due to narrative and being a "rival" to Luffy and Kid, but he never even showed it.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Clearly our convo didn't go anywhere because we have very different standards on what constitutes CONFIRMED use of aCoC by a character. My standard of evidence just requires more than what has been shown.

Your standard of evidence must be it coming out in a Vivre Card or something. Not sure how much more confirmation you need.

You must have been one of the ones thought BB had no haki before he blocked Seraphim Mihawk with Hardening CoA lol.

It's all good. Your right, this went no where. Maybe the fight continues newt week hopefully

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 17, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 17, 2022 ---

@Pirate Queen
You keep ignoring the context around the BB vs Hancock. Yes, BB did state that if he were to let go of her, he would turn her into stone. This does not necessarily mean that Hancock > BB or that she is Yonko level fighter. You are ignoring everything else around. She used her stone turning ability to turn the other YCs and marines. Thanks to her DF Hancock can one shot many characters but not necessarily be stronger than them. Just like Sugar can do so too.
BB managed somehow to turn her DF power off and grab her by the neck. As I keep repeating, BB would have killed Hancock if Rayleigh had not shown up. To me that shows that Hancock is NOT anywhere near Yonko level.
So far what we've seen on the actual manga is that Hancock is not near the strength of certain YC level characters. Understand this, she may very well be YC1 or above but so far we have not yet seen her fully in action just like we haven't seen Weevil but some people like to place him at YC1 and above.
I would wait until we see more of Hancock, because it seems its only due to her stone turning ability that she could possibly defeat BB. If it wasn't for that overpowered ability than she stands no chance. But as I keep repeating myself, it seems that Haki can overcome the stone turning ability, from what we learned from Law.
So I don't see Hancock turning Kaido or Shanks or other Yonko level characters into stone. You have no basis to claim she is on their level.

You comparing Luffy vs Crocodile panels and BB "using" ACoC are way out of context. That was an extremely bad comparison. Luffy vs Crocodile had more substantial evidence than BB "using" ACoC. BB may very well have ACoC but Im waiting to see more of it before I claim it. Just like I remember Moe claiming that Law had CoC due to narrative and being a "rival" to Luffy and Kid, but he never even showed it.

Show me a YC 3 that can defeat a Yonko.

And your example is just bad. If kaido was not saved by the old woman, Kaido would have been killed by Oden. That doesn't mean Kaido wasn't Yonko level.

Come on now...

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Your standard of evidence must be it coming out in a Vivre Card or something. Not sure how much more confirmation you need.

You must have been one of the ones thought BB had no haki before he blocked Seraphim Mihawk with Hardening CoA lol.

It's all good. Your right, this went no where. Maybe the fight continues newt week hopefully

Nah I don't need a vivre card. I just need to see the black lighting is for sure haki and is coming from BB himself to say I've confirmed the use of aCoC. I knew BB has both CoO and CoA even without any direct use so didn't wait for the Seraphim moment.

With CoC (not even advanced version) I still expect a confirmation to happen within the story. Just being a very powerful fighter within the OP world isn't enough or else we'd make the case for all the Admirals also having CoC & even aCoC, which so far isn't the case.

I do hope we see the rest of that fight and see what BB is fully capable of. I don't have a problem with him having aCoC, just need a bit more than two black lightings coming from the water surface to claim that its a done deal.

 

[albertwv]

Your standard of evidence must be it coming out in a Vivre Card or something. Not sure how much more confirmation you need.

You must have been one of the ones thought BB had no haki before he blocked Seraphim Mihawk with Hardening CoA lol.

It's all good. Your right, this went no where. Maybe the fight continues newt week hopefully

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 17, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 17, 2022 ---

Show me a YC 3 that can defeat a Yonko.

And your example is just bad. If kaido was not saved by the old woman, Kaido would have been killed by Oden. That doesn't mean Kaido wasn't Yonko level.

Come on now...

Your example is even worse though. Hancock lost to BB so she can't even be compared to him. She got lucky that Rayleigh showed up and scared BB away if not she would have been dead. Now imagine if it Kaido or BM. BM praised Marco but that doesn't mean that Marco is Yonko level. Bb praised in a way Hancock for her stone turning ability, but once she lost that she was gonna get her neck snapped.