One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[I Am Atomic]

And Oda does use a similar effect for the air quakes and you are right about that.

I won't be pushing the issue anymore tho. I think i said enough that anymore would have me going in circles.

I HAVE been wrong about CoC before.

Oda is absolutely shit at being consistent with haki in general, not just with CoC

I am just a confused man

For an end boss character like BB I assume he should have aCoC. But I can also see why he wouldn't have it since he relies too much on DFs.

 

[Fox666]

And Oda does use a similar effect for the air quakes and you are right about that.

I won't be pushing the issue anymore tho. I think i said enough that anymore would have me going in circles.

I HAVE been wrong about CoC before.

Oda is absolutely shit at being consistent with haki in general, not just with CoC

In the last chapter, the quake has been annoying similar to Haki

 

[hokageji]

Inuarashi and Nekomamushi fought Jack 1-on-1 in Zou. We also have a comparison with Ashura Douji, who clashed against both Inuarashi and Jack.

Also Kinemon talked about Kyoshiro and Kawamatsu as if they were in the same league Ashura Douji.

I think O-Kiku is quite strong too.

it feels like its more appropriate here, so @Fox666 , continuing here...

Inu and Neko in Sunlong form = YC tier..
without sulong, they were nearly done...
Ashura Douji and Kyoshiro - sure.. they are impressively strong... lets throw in Kawamatsu theretooo... but are they all Yonko commander tier?

I dont think so... they were hella impressive, except Kinemon and Raizo, but calling them Yonko tier would be tough with the lack of fights highlighted.

And going back to our original discussion, Wano can act like a Yonko army but even in comparison with BMP, they are weak. Their only strength is in numbers, but not in top tier.

 

[albertwv]

it feels like its more appropriate here, so @Fox666 , continuing here...

Inu and Neko in Sunlong form = YC tier..
without sulong, they were nearly done...
Ashura Douji and Kyoshiro - sure.. they are impressively strong... lets throw in Kawamatsu theretooo... but are they all Yonko commander tier?

I dont think so... they were hella impressive, except Kinemon and Raizo, but calling them Yonko tier would be tough with the lack of fights highlighted.

And going back to our original discussion, Wano can act like a Yonko army but even in comparison with BMP, they are weak. Their only strength is in numbers, but not in top tier.

Cat, Dog, Ashura, maybe Denjiro and maybe Kinemon are YC3 level. Sulong Cat and Dog are YC2+ level. I don't see Denjiro being stronger than Jack, but who knows. Kinemon wasn't ever shown to be as strong as a YC3.
The only thing the scabbards have is that they were able to damage Kaido, great but not really. As we saw it was mere scratches what they did individually. The 4 combo attack against Kaido was semi-effective but no enough to claim they are all YC3+ individually. Also, Kaido tends to tank hits on purpose, he is not known to dodge attacks as we saw throughout the fight.

I dislike how some people like to elevate Killer to YC3+ due to getting one good hit on Kaido that made him yell out in pain. I don't see Killer defeating Jack in a 1v1, but who knows.
Ashura vs Jack, Ashura is faster and was able to get a clean hit. Ashura is possibly the strongest Red Scabbard among them, but it is a shame that we did not get the conclusion of the fight or anything else, as Wano per usual.

 

[XXGenesis]

The Strongest Sccbards are equal or stronger than Jack…That is their limits & current ceilings. Strongest Scabbards are Cat/Dog/Ashura/Denjiro/Kawamatsu/Izou….Those who had 20years to grow…

Kinemon is their leader but he is not the strongest, I don’t get this perspective!!; Pre 20years Ashura was the strongest…Cat/Dog grew in the 20years…Kawamatsu was imprisoned after a time…Denjiro grew stronger as did Izou….So yea a Leader doesn’t have the be strongest just have good leadership qualities……Yes they are YC3 lv max.

Killer should be viewed as a YC3 lv Pirate. Or The Forgotten YC4(Snack) lv….Ppl just like to jump str8 to Tobi Roppo/Yonko Officer lv. Characters such Hawkins/Killer/XDrake/Apoo or even Bege Capone. I believe are just slightly weaker than Majority of YC3 lv pirates.

 

[albertwv]

Yes most supernovas are below the YC3 level, they are what is consider Yonko Executive level. I would consider Izou as a YC4 or YE level though. I never got the vibes of Izou being on Jack's level, best he did was take down 1 CP0 agent Maha, who we have no idea how strong Maha was.

Anyways, we got to see more of Law vs BB, hell yeah! It's a miracle that Oda didn't offscreen that fight, although he might after this chapter. Won't be surprised if we see Law hanging from BB's arm (like Hancock) powerlessly in their next scene.

We saw more of the lightning tendrils for whatever people call it. But IMO it seems like it was straight from the Quake Quake fruit's power, not Advanced CoC. What do people think? Does this chapter confirm BB having ACoC or was it just the Quake DF?

 

[kkck]

It's hard to say how izou ranks IMO. Back during marineford marco, vista and jozu were at least able to hold their ground against admirals and admirals had at least some respect of their strength. Nowadays in turn we see admirals having a pretty comfortable lead over executive types. We also have to consider that marco and jozu at least are relatively young, being teenagers at the most when WB was at around his peak. And even then, back then WB's crew was evenly matched with that of roger. I think what we see now is a combination of admirals having grown stronger as well over the past two years while at the same time WB's commanders were a fair bit ahead of other yonko executives. Some of them are (or were) a bigger deal than the marineford events evidenced...

 

[Fox666]

It's hard to say how izou ranks IMO. Back during marineford marco, vista and jozu were at least able to hold their ground against admirals and admirals had at least some respect of their strength. Nowadays in turn we see admirals having a pretty comfortable lead over executive types. We also have to consider that marco and jozu at least are relatively young, being teenagers at the most when WB was at around his peak. And even then, back then WB's crew was evenly matched with that of roger. I think what we see now is a combination of admirals having grown stronger as well over the past two years while at the same time WB's commanders were a fair bit ahead of other yonko executives. Some of them are (or were) a bigger deal than the marineford events evidenced...

Gotta admit it

Just like Whitebeard and Roger were on a league of their own, so were their crews

Look at what happened in Marineford, look at Oden's flashback, look at Marco's feats in Wano

People wrongly assumed the the Big Mom Pirates or Beast Pirates were up to the challenge because they said Katakuri was never defeated... but he wasn't defeated before because somehow he never fought anyone stronger than him.

 

[kkck]

Gotta admit it

Just like Whitebeard and Roger were on a league of their own, so were their crews

Look at what happened in Marineford, look at Oden's flashback, look at Marco's feats in Wano

People wrongly assumed the the Big Mom Pirates or Beast Pirates were up to the challenge because they said Katakuri was never defeated... but he wasn't defeated before because somehow he never fought anyone stronger than him.

Wait, that's a different issue. My point is exclusively about executives and that in WB's crew executives were stronger than their equivalents in other yonko crews. That's an entirely different discussion from how roger's crew compared to kaido's and big mom's as we saw them. And in that regard I would argue it's 100% certain that kaido's and big mom's crews were stronger and probably with a good margin. Roger's crew had the oro jackson and... 30 assholes? 40 if there are still a few unknowns? Kaido's crew, the least impressive among the yonko, had 30000. Within that there were 3 calamities, 6 topo robi, 10 numbers, nearly 50 headliners, 500 smile users and then hordes of well expendable but well armed militias and presumably enough ships to carry at least most of these forces.

For arguments sake also consider big mom's crew who on the other end of the spectrum arguably has the most impressive yonko crew. 3 sweet commanders, at least 6 other children whose strength is considerable at that level, then.... 60-ish kids whose strength is relevant in the NW. When sanji tried to escape via air walk during WCI with luffy he was easily pursued and pushed back by big mom's kids... Then you have to consider all the pirates that have married with big mom's kids. Then rooks and fighters like pekoms or tamago which big mom had plenty of. Then her militias which are made out of pirates and nigh endless homies. Then her massive fleet...

Executive to executive there's a solid case to be made that roger's and WB's crew from back in the day are ahead of the yonko we know. But if it's crew to crew... no contest, kaido and big mom have a substantial edge. The yonko crews as they were introduced were basically evolutions of what roger and WB had 30 years ago. It's how they adapted to the changing times and came to dominate the oceans. Their scope is incomparably grander than what existed decades back.

 

[Fox666]

Wait, that's a different issue. My point is exclusively about executives and that in WB's crew executives were stronger than their equivalents in other yonko crews. That's an entirely different discussion from how roger's crew compared to kaido's and big mom's as we saw them. And in that regard I would argue it's 100% certain that kaido's and big mom's crews were stronger and probably with a good margin. Roger's crew had the oro jackson and... 30 assholes? 40 if there are still a few unknowns? Kaido's crew, the least impressive among the yonko, had 30000. Within that there were 3 calamities, 6 topo robi, 10 numbers, nearly 50 headliners, 500 smile users and then hordes of well expendable but well armed militias and presumably enough ships to carry at least most of these forces.

29,000+ of Kaido's men were just normal people. Even the Smile users are just fodder with a pseudo-Zoan ability.

Don Krieg had a bounty of 17 million and a crew of 5,000. They were all decimated by Mihawk. Numbers never really mattered in One Piece.

 

[Ricko]

29,000+ of Kaido's men were just normal people. Even the Smile users are just fodder with a pseudo-Zoan ability.

Don Krieg had a bounty of 17 million and a crew of 5,000. They were all decimated by Mihawk. Numbers never really mattered in One Piece.

I don't think that the poor Izou share your point of view about "fodders"

 

[Core D. Roy]

I dislike how some people like to elevate Killer to YC3+ due to getting one good hit on Kaido that made him yell out in pain. I don't see Killer defeating Jack in a 1v1, but who knows.

And I don't see Luffy from a month ago beating Cracker 1v1. YC levels have some hard caps, and some soft caps. A lot of that has to do with DF variance, and frankly Killer ain't cut out for fighting ancient zoans.

 

[kkck]

29,000+ of Kaido's men were just normal people. Even the Smile users are just fodder with a pseudo-Zoan ability.

Don Krieg had a bounty of 17 million and a crew of 5,000. They were all decimated by Mihawk. Numbers never really mattered in One Piece.

They weren't normal people. There is a substantial difference between a yonko crew's militia and what some asshole could hope to gather in the east blue. Gifters are all easily superhuman, probably even without devil fruits. Throughout the wano arc gifters were always able to stall people like zoro or even hold back general franky. That's not something a few people could do merely because they have off brand devil fruits, there's actual power at play here. Even beyond that, numbers are definitely important. They without a doubt an important part of military might. Yonko building strong militias is a major plot point in the overall story. Kaido went through great pains to build his gifter army and to build weapons for his crew in wano. Big mom betrayed the vinsmokes specifically to get her hands on their clone army. Yonko crews are simply built different from what roger and WB had. In terms of numbers, resources and ultimately just plain military might.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

And I don't see Luffy from a month ago beating Cracker 1v1. YC levels have some hard caps, and some soft caps. A lot of that has to do with DF variance, and frankly Killer ain't cut out for fighting ancient zoans.

The luffy that defeated katakuri then learnt ryou? Or which luffy ? Cause any luffy post WCI comfortably defeats cracker

 

[Core D. Roy]

The luffy that defeated katakuri then learnt ryou? Or which luffy ? Cause any luffy post WCI comfortably defeats cracker

I was talking about Luffy during his fight with Cracker a month prior, but for the sake of funsies: Luffy with ryuo beats Cracker silly- ACoA in the form of 'ryuoh' is a pretty hard counter to Cracker's abilities. Luffy with future sight but no ryuoh? Same outcome without Nami except he can helplessly see how hard he's about to get his ass beat a couple minutes before it happens. Pre-Udon Luffy is getting wrecked by Cracker 1v1.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I was talking about Luffy during his fight with Cracker a month prior, but for the sake of funsies: Luffy with ryuo beats Cracker silly- ACoA in the form of 'ryuoh' is a pretty hard counter to Cracker's abilities. Luffy with future sight but no ryuoh? Same outcome without Nami except he can helplessly see how hard he's about to get his ass beat a couple minutes before it happens. Pre-Udon Luffy is getting wrecked by Cracker 1v1.

Luffy kinda gets zenkai boosts with each fight , his haki by then would have become considerably harder , I think he wins pretty comfortably even without Ryou

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy kinda gets zenkai boosts with each fight , his haki by then would have become considerably harder , I think he wins pretty comfortably even without Ryou

I think it's less a zenkai boost than Luffy's absurd growth rate.

Luffy is an idiot, but his battle IQ and adaptability is genius levels of insanity

 

[Fox666]

I was talking about Luffy during his fight with Cracker a month prior, but for the sake of funsies: Luffy with ryuo beats Cracker silly- ACoA in the form of 'ryuoh' is a pretty hard counter to Cracker's abilities. Luffy with future sight but no ryuoh? Same outcome without Nami except he can helplessly see how hard he's about to get his ass beat a couple minutes before it happens. Pre-Udon Luffy is getting wrecked by Cracker 1v1.

I don't think Cracker would last long if Luffy had future sight


Cracker wasn't using only his Biscuit Soldier to fight Luffy, but was also fighting with his real body:

Spoiler

Cracker switching between the Biscuit Soldier and his real body

After 11 hours of off-screen fighting, Cracker has dirty markings on his face

In the end, Cracker was defeated because he tried to attack Luffy with his real body

If Luffy could use future sight, the moment he tried to rush against Luffy he would be serious trouble


Also Luffy didn't just learned future sight fighting Katakuri. He improved his usage of Gear 4, which were a major drawback during his fight with Cracker. I presume he also got stronger overall.

So at the end of Whole Cake Island arc, Luffy could already have improved enough to defeat Cracker without even he didn't use future sight

 

[XXGenesis]

Snakeman’s attack speed > Cracker’s Biscuit Clones & Clapping.

 

[M3J]

I think it's less a zenkai boost than Luffy's absurd growth rate.

Luffy is an idiot, but his battle IQ and adaptability is genius levels of insanity

This is why I think he could have won without Nami. The battle lasting for that long was probably to make him tired enough to get captured.