One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I don't think Cracker would last long if Luffy had future sight


Cracker wasn't using only his Biscuit Soldier to fight Luffy, but was also fighting with his real body:

Spoiler

Cracker switching between the Biscuit Soldier and his real body

After 11 hours of off-screen fighting, Cracker has dirty markings on his face

In the end, Cracker was defeated because he tried to attack Luffy with his real body

If Luffy could use future sight, the moment he tried to rush against Luffy he would be serious trouble


Also Luffy didn't just learned future sight fighting Katakuri. He improved his usage of Gear 4, which were a major drawback during his fight with Cracker. I presume he also got stronger overall.

So at the end of Whole Cake Island arc, Luffy could already have improved enough to defeat Cracker without even he didn't use future sight

Snakeman’s attack speed > Cracker’s Biscuit Clones & Clapping.

This is why I think he could have won without Nami. The battle lasting for that long was probably to make him tired enough to get captured.

Y'all all doing Nami dirty with these takes. I could just as easily say that Luffy's future sight utterly fails the second Cracker pisses him off by telling him Sanji would be happier leaving the Strawhats behind.

 

[M3J]

How am I doing Nami dirty????????

 

[Fox666]

Y'all all doing Nami dirty with these takes. I could just as easily say that Luffy's future sight utterly fails the second Cracker pisses him off by telling him Sanji would be happier leaving the Strawhats behind.

Has something like that ever happened?

 

[grey matter]

Post WCI Luffy defeats Cracker within a minute. The main issues Luffy had was to tag Cracker who was hidden by his soldiers. This is something Snakeman would be able to accomplish with relative ease, considering he can tweak the trajectory of his attacks instead of going straight (like with Boundman), also assisted by future sight now. One hit and Cracker is one shot.

Jack would honestly be more of a challenge, cause he's a tank + decent CQC. Luffy would dominate in a fight, but would probably be pushed to the time limit of G4 before winning. Maybe he would even need two rounds of G4 here, and need to run around while recovering from G4

 

[XXGenesis]

Y'all all doing Nami dirty with these takes. I could just as easily say that Luffy's future sight utterly fails the second Cracker pisses him off by telling him Sanji would be happier leaving the Strawhats behind.

LOL. Nami was vital but we gotta be objective about the other forms of G4 not used. Also Luffy has used an external Water source for battle before. Luffy could have replicated softening the biscuit soldiers

Has something like that ever happened?

No. But it’s possible. Instances of it happening weren’t psychological trash talk. But Katakuri’s embarrassment of how he eats & physical insecurity plus Luffy thinking Kaido wiped out his Crew..Has worked before

 

[Core D. Roy]

Has something like that ever happened?

Luffy being pissed off and losing future sight? Absolutely, see his first fight with Kaidou where he thought his crew was just wiped out.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Post WCI Luffy defeats Cracker within a minute. The main issues Luffy had was to tag Cracker who was hidden by his soldiers. This is something Snakeman would be able to accomplish with relative ease, considering he can tweak the trajectory of his attacks instead of going straight (like with Boundman), also assisted by future sight now. One hit and Cracker is one shot.

Jack would honestly be more of a challenge, cause he's a tank + decent CQC. Luffy would dominate in a fight, but would probably be pushed to the time limit of G4 before winning. Maybe he would even need two rounds of G4 here, and need to run around while recovering from G4

Gear 2+3 luffy with some future sight is enough for jack
And he doesn’t defeat cracker in a minute
He’s first have to force Him out of his many soldiers And then demolish them
He’d win tho , pretty cleanly

 

[Fox666]

No. But it’s possible. Instances of it happening weren’t psychological trash talk. But Katakuri’s embarrassment of how he eats & physical insecurity plus Luffy thinking Kaido wiped out his Crew..Has worked before

Luffy being pissed off and losing future sight? Absolutely, see his first fight with Kaidou where he thought his crew was just wiped out.

That's a bit different from just saying a few mean words during a fight

 

[XXGenesis]

That's a bit different from just saying a few mean words during a fight

Did I not acknowledge the differences…..

Are you disagreeing that verbal taunting isn’t enough to get someone flustered…….Because I remember Ace falling for Akainu’s taunt….Or BB taunting Luffy in Impel Down just for a few examples.

All it takes is for you to lose your cool & FS can’t be used. That can be accomplished by many means;

 

[HereNThere]

That's a bit different from just saying a few mean words during a fight

The right combination of mean words can easily throw someone off. Ace died because he flew off the handle when Akainu bad mouthed WB.

 

[albertwv]

How strong is Kuma be?
A little backstory, ever since Dressrosa with Gear 4 Luffy defeating DD, I started to believe that Luffy could defeat all the warlords except Mihawk by then, I placed DD high among the Warlords and then we see that is he actually in the lower spectrum among the Yonko Commanders.
I can argue that DD can beat Jimbei, Hancock, Kuma, maybe Pre TS BB w/ Dark DF, Crocodile, Law. Actually every warlord minus Mihawk.
DD has shown us amazing feats, mastered the basic hakis (CoC, CoA, CoO), versatile DF and awakened DF, great durability, etc.

If anything I would place Kuma as a YC3 at best
Ivankov during the MF War was confident enough to beat Kuma and I don't see Ivankov that powerful compared to DD. It would be great to see the real Kuma this arc and fight with his full potential.

 

[Core D. Roy]

That's a bit different from just saying a few mean words during a fight

It's enough to mess with future sight, and that'd be something Cracker knows how to deal with.

Either way if Luffy wins pre-Wano, it's extremely hard fought and depends on if Cracker or Luffy make the same mistakes they made during the fight. Cracker's DF is just that much of an advantage against Luffy without water around. That said it'd be funny as hell to see how hard Luffy stomps him post-Wano. G5, ACoA, and ACoC vs biscuit soldiers would be an absolute shitshow for Cracker.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 25, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 25, 2022 ---

How strong is Kuma be?
A little backstory, ever since Dressrosa with Gear 4 Luffy defeating DD, I started to believe that Luffy could defeat all the warlords except Mihawk by then, I placed DD high among the Warlords and then we see that is he actually in the lower spectrum among the Yonko Commanders.
I can argue that DD can beat Jimbei, Hancock, Kuma, maybe Pre TS BB w/ Dark DF, Crocodile, Law. Actually every warlord minus Mihawk.
DD has shown us amazing feats, mastered the basic hakis (CoC, CoA, CoO), versatile DF and awakened DF, great durability, etc.

If anything I would place Kuma as a YC3 at best
Ivankov during the MF War was confident enough to beat Kuma and I don't see Ivankov that powerful compared to DD. It would be great to see the real Kuma this arc and fight with his full potential.

Kuma is extremely hard to place because we've never seen the REAL Kuma in battle. I imagine the real Kuma to be YC1+, with free will and acting on real motivations and experience, he should be insanely powerful.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 25, 2022 ---

Gear 2+3 luffy with some future sight is enough for jack

If he wails on him for like a month, I guess? Boundman would have to go hard on Jack for a while to end the fight within a reasonable time frame.

 

[Fox666]

How strong is Kuma be?
A little backstory, ever since Dressrosa with Gear 4 Luffy defeating DD, I started to believe that Luffy could defeat all the warlords except Mihawk by then, I placed DD high among the Warlords and then we see that is he actually in the lower spectrum among the Yonko Commanders.
I can argue that DD can beat Jimbei, Hancock, Kuma, maybe Pre TS BB w/ Dark DF, Crocodile, Law. Actually every warlord minus Mihawk.
DD has shown us amazing feats, mastered the basic hakis (CoC, CoA, CoO), versatile DF and awakened DF, great durability, etc.

If anything I would place Kuma as a YC3 at best
Ivankov during the MF War was confident enough to beat Kuma and I don't see Ivankov that powerful compared to DD. It would be great to see the real Kuma this arc and fight with his full potential.

We don't have any real feat of Kuma.

He wiped the floor with the Straw Hats... but it was pre-timeskip and they were already exhausted.

Kuma didn't seemed that strong against Invankov, who on theory is below Sabo. But it could be because he had the brain of a machine.


Based on the story progression, Doflamingo should be on the lower end of the Big Mom commanders

It's hard to tell how much he was affected by the Gamma Knife, but I don't think it's worth to discuss feats that were not shown in the series


I suppose when Jinbe joined the Straw Hats in Whole Cake Island arc, Luffy had already surpassed him


Story progression also dictates that Hancock and Mihawk are stronger than the rest... and Crocodile is also now closer to their level?

 

[HereNThere]

How strong is Kuma be?
A little backstory, ever since Dressrosa with Gear 4 Luffy defeating DD, I started to believe that Luffy could defeat all the warlords except Mihawk by then, I placed DD high among the Warlords and then we see that is he actually in the lower spectrum among the Yonko Commanders.
I can argue that DD can beat Jimbei, Hancock, Kuma, maybe Pre TS BB w/ Dark DF, Crocodile, Law. Actually every warlord minus Mihawk.
DD has shown us amazing feats, mastered the basic hakis (CoC, CoA, CoO), versatile DF and awakened DF, great durability, etc.

If anything I would place Kuma as a YC3 at best
Ivankov during the MF War was confident enough to beat Kuma and I don't see Ivankov that powerful compared to DD. It would be great to see the real Kuma this arc and fight with his full potential.

Personally, I think he's going to be pretty strong. Oda has basically been hyping up the Shichibukai's power and increasing their relevance in the grand scheme. The new Pacifistas are even designed after them and are, presumably, using their abilities as a base. Kuma is going to benefit from that hype. He'll probably be given a billion+ bounty if it's revealed he's still alive.

I also wouldn't discount Ivankov either. It's implied they're a monster of a fighter as well.

In my opinion, everyone who has pretty decent notoriety or hype that is going into the end game is going to be incredibly strong. The whole fan ranking of YC is likely going to be irrelevant as things really start popping off.

 

[kkck]

The current situation is weird to me kuma wise. The implication is that vegapunk was interested in kuma's body presumably because he is from a special race. But.... he was made into cyborg? We saw the first generation of pacifista... they make for fantastic militias but they fall short of new world combatants with any degree of notoriety. Post time skip we saw that luffy, zoro and sanji easily had the capacity to one shot pacifista. If kuma's body was so special its just weird that vegapunk would get rid of it. If kuma is or was relevant at this level it would only make sense if he was weakened by the transformation into a cyborg.

Oh, something just clicked for me, I think I got this backwards. The point of this was possibly not turning kuma into a pacifista. Rather, the point of this was vegapunk getting kuma's body and use it for experiments. As in, part of the agreement was for kuma to literally give his body to science for vegapunk to study but he would also get cyborg parts to replace his lost ones.

 

[albertwv]

I don't see Kuma being YC1+ or even Hancock. I barely see Sabo being a YC1 and Sabo seems to be the 2nd strongest Rev besides Dragon. Ivankov seemed to equals to Kuma and honestly Ivankov isnt that great compared to other YCs. I don't see Ivankov beating G4 Luffy or DD in Dressrosa.
Jimbei was stronger than Gear 2 luffy in Fishman Island but if Luffy had used Gear 4, I could see Luffy mopping the floor like he did with DD and Cracker to a point. I don't see Jimbei stronger than DD.
Yes we havent seen a lot from Kuma but neither have we seen much from Hancock or Weevil and people place them as YC1+ or higher.

 

[Fallou]

I don't see Kuma being YC1+ or even Hancock. I barely see Sabo being a YC1 and Sabo seems to be the 2nd strongest Rev besides Dragon. Ivankov seemed to equals to Kuma and honestly Ivankov isnt that great compared to other YCs. I don't see Ivankov beating G4 Luffy or DD in Dressrosa.
Jimbei was stronger than Gear 2 luffy in Fishman Island but if Luffy had used Gear 4, I could see Luffy mopping the floor like he did with DD and Cracker to a point. I don't see Jimbei stronger than DD.
Yes we havent seen a lot from Kuma but neither have we seen much from Hancock or Weevil and people place them as YC1+ or higher.

Sabo has advanced CoA and a fire logia lol, how would he be « barely » a YC1? When was Iva shown equal to Kuma? We have no idea how strong Kuma is cause we’ve barely seen him break a sweat yet. As for placing him or Hancock, it’s obviously only guesswork at this point.
But I’ll say this for Hancocks defense:
-She has CoC
-She has access to haki knowledge via her island
-It wouldn’t be far fetched to infer she had advanced haki
-That and her DF make her very dangerous, I doubt anyone but a Yonko or admiral can do anything to her at this point

 

[LadyVados]

I re read 1033 and honestly I think I was wrong about Zoro.

I’ve been underestimating him, 1033 is definitely implying he mastered Enma and became equal to Oden.

Current Zoro is Low Yonko level, about equal to Oden.

So Zoro and Luffy are not that far off in terms of power. One is Mid or High Yonko level, the other is Low Yonko level.

 

[kkck]

Sabo is the RA's number two, unquestionably schooled burgues and went toe to toe with issho while using a fruit he literally just got... I doubt you can be that high in the RA chain of command without being at least YC1. If sabo can actually go toe to toe with an admiral he would be a step ahead of most YC1...

 

[Core D. Roy]

I’ve been underestimating him

I promise you, you did no such thing.

Equal to Oden?! WHAT?!