One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[XXGenesis]

LOL. Having an Agenda isn’t bad..But the toxic one’s .

@Lord Traffy Law ; Your denial is strong. You are arguing semantics because One Piece doesn’t have a metric aside from doruki to measure physical capability.

It’s all Feats/portrayal, comparisons & Dialogue….BB was afraid of her power; But overcame that with his own DF haxx & physical strentght. yes she’s physically weaker than most YC1. Overall her skills are comparable to theirs

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

LOL. Having an Agenda isn’t bad..But the toxic one’s .

@Lord Traffy Law ; Your denial is strong. You are arguing semantics because One Piece doesn’t have a metric aside from doruki to measure physical capability.

It’s all Feats/portrayal, comparisons & Dialogue….BB was afraid of her power; But overcame that with his own DF haxx & physical strentght. yes she’s physically weaker than most YC1. Overall her skills are comparable to theirs

Yes as he should be
But live we’ve seen luffy who’s an extremely powerful yonkou couldn’t break out of Bonney DF effect , it’s not something everything yonkou can do
And BB is very poweful but he clearly leans more into Devil fruit
Also so far every YC1+ can actually tussle with a yonkou for a while , Marco did , Yamato did , BB kinda took her out kinda easy from the manga
Again being a Yc3 is actually really really powerful
We aren’t saying she isn’t YC1+ but there’s really no definitive proof

 

[Core D. Roy]

But live we’ve seen luffy who’s an extremely powerful yonkou couldn’t break out of Bonney DF effect , it’s not something everything yonkou can do

"Eh... it was for the sake of a gag" is how I see it. It wasn't a life or death fight where Luffy was actively trying to cancel the effect.

That said: I do think Bonney's fruit (like Boa's or even Sugar's) is one that fundamentally changes the enemy's body in a way that can't be repelled with haki like an external effect like infecting somebody with something. Now I'm wondering if Iva's sex changes can be countered the same way- altering hormones is a lot more fundamental than infecting somebody with an external illness.

 

[albertwv]

People here are famous for ignoring the emphasis of "Well that character can VERY WELL BE rank ___ BUT we need more evidence from the manga or the author" and use their imagination to rank such character at such level.

I can state that Hancock/Ace/Sabo/Kuma is not YC1 but may be or has the possibility of being at YC1 level BUT there is not enough evidence in the manga or from the author to determine that at the time.
But people will stop reading at "not YC1" and strongly disagree with me, claiming I am downplay the characters or that I do not read between the imaginary lines. When there is basically not enough proof.

It's like Law/Kid before the rooftop. From what we had seen in the manga before Onigashima, both Law and Kid were not portrayed as YC1+, last we saw Law lost against DD who is at YC3, so it was reasonable to believe that Law had not made such a huge jump from losing to a YC3 in Dressrosa to being a YC1+ in Wano, WITH NO EVIDENCE OF TRAINING OR POWER UP.
And what happened? Law and Kid demonstrated that they were indeed YC1+ level after defeating BM.

So a character may very well be at a higher ranking than they are portrayed but I would wait until more evidence is clear to make such a statement.
Look at what happened with the BB having ACoC. People were confident that BB had ACoC because of some small lightning streaks and that since he is a Yonko he should automatically have it. WRONG. The very next chapter we saw that it was due to the Quake Quake DF. BB may actually have ACoC, but I will wait until more concrete evidence.

 

[Pirate Queen]

.
Look at what happened with the BB having ACoC. People were confident that BB had ACoC because of some small lightning streaks and that since he is a Yonko he should automatically have it. WRONG. The very next chapter we saw that it was due to the Quake Quake DF. BB may actually have ACoC, but I will wait until more concrete evidence.

Are you serious? The lightening people were saying wasn't from the Gura Gura no mi did not have the sound effect that accompanies the Quake effects. The lighting we say from 1063 had a "zap" sound effect implying it is not from the gura gura no mi

Again you are ignoring facts to fit your narrative

WB using it:

BB using it

Where as ACoC has "electric" sound effect like zap or "zzst"

 

[XXGenesis]

Yes as he should be
But live we’ve seen luffy who’s an extremely powerful yonkou couldn’t break out of Bonney DF effect , it’s not something everything yonkou can do
And BB is very poweful but he clearly leans more into Devil fruit
Also so far every YC1+ can actually tussle with a yonkou for a while , Marco did , Yamato did , BB kinda took her out kinda easy from the manga
Again being a Yc3 is actually really really powerful
We aren’t saying she isn’t YC1+ but there’s really no definitive proof

Well defended argument. I disagree with some points because I have a different perspective on some things.

@albertwv Learn to argue Pirate Queen takes with Pirate Queen……You have an agenda to stick it to Pirate Queen. So I won’t discuss Boa Hancock with you, bit to passionate to dismiss a character because of their fan base lol. Same way I would never discuss Zoro with Pirate Queen.

Haki argument is inconsistent. Haki is inconsistent. Sorry but too bad it’s the truth. We don’t know the limits or full functionality between Haki & DF……DF powers that changes your constitution probably wouldn’t allow you to use haki to resist…But who the hell knows.

As for Why Boa Hancock is easily YC1 or Above.

The Narrative of the Story giving Boa a 1.6B Bounty already places her within that tier;

MarineFord War Only so many characters left injured that fought…Boa Hancock was one of those few.

Boa has All forms of Haki. Her sisters know AcoA…It’s very likely she knows it also.I won’t stretch that argument to ACoC, but it’s a possibility I wouldn’t write off.

Oda has also put a lot more respect on the remaining Warlords, showing why these captains were so valuable during MF;

Finally we have Latest Amazon Lily showdown. I wouldn’t expect Boa to break BB grasp; Same way Marco couldn’t break Big Mom’s Grasp. Either way A Yonkou, BB could not take any chances of someone of her level with her ability. I think that easily puts her in that league; Despite being a heavy haxx ability user.

IMO
Boa > Smoothie;
Boa > Cracker;
Boa > Queen;
Boa > Jack;

Boa vs YC1 fighters. It could probably go either way.

 

[Pirate Queen]

The Gura Gura no mi does NOT make a "ZAP" sound effect. That was Lightening.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 28, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 28, 2022 ---

@albertwv Learn to argue Pirate Queen takes with Pirate Queen……You have an agenda to stick it to Pirate Queen. So I won’t discuss Boa Hancock with you, bit to passionate to dismiss a character because of their fan base lol. Same way I would never discuss Zoro with Pirate Queen.

I have yet to say anything about Hancock that isn't backed by the manga. I said Hancock can defeat a Yonko. Said Yonko revealed Hancock can defeat him if he let her go.

Thats not bias, that is reading the manga.

I don't even know how I got brought into this. I haven't been on hear for a few days. I haven't said anything new

 

[XXGenesis]

@Pirate Queen Not a bad way to interpret the manga; Using the Onomatopoeia along with illustrations….But didn’t Hannibal do this all the time…I fail to remember when the manga has ever fulfilled his POV.

Boa Hancock’s combat Prowess primarily relys on a Haxx. She easily gets OP by Top tiers due to lower physical prowess; She’s not Yonko tier . Definitely towards the bottom amongst YC1+

@albertwv You are attacking ppl’s opinions….This happens way too often within this fandom. Especially if an opinion is backed within reason or logic using the manga. Disagree, no need to attack the person or their opinion.

Bounties Oda has contradicted himself within the last few chapters…Imo Oda recently just made Bounty very much based around power.

Mihawk established Yonkou lv
Crocodile It’s a given he’s stronger has a huge bounty, over 1B. The same 1B that the story made out to be so special & we see Yonkou’s top commanders have.
Same with Boa & given feats & narrative she’s a big threat because of her DF, with a bounty to match.
Kuma has no bounty but he was never a slouch.

It’s not really rocket science or a bad take. To say they are YC1 or slightly above.

 

[grey matter]

@grey matter this does not prove that Sabo has ACoA. He may have it and it makes sense but until it is confirmed then will I believe it. Sabo uses "Ryusoken" which translates to Dragon Claw Fist. "Ryou" is Haki in Wano language and it is not the same as "Ryuu" You got it confused.

Spoiler

Here is the Sabo vs Fuji "fight"
In this page, Sabo asks Fuji why is he playing dumb, Sabo is aware that Fuji is not going all out.

Spoiler

in this panel, It shows that Sabo is onto Fujitora, wondering why isn't being serious and that Fujitora is just putting up a show. If the Marines (WG) find out why Fujitora didn't do anything, his excuse will be that he was being held up by Sabo.

Spoiler

In conclusion, Fuji was NOT being serious towards Sabo. Thus I would not say that Sabo is near Fujitora or the Admirals level.
Sabo is YC1 low, weaker than Kata and King and Marco. IMO. Im sure he has great potential and that next time we see him he will be stronger.

I see what you are saying.
Yeah, I misunderstood the "Ryusaken" for Ryou.

But I do still firmly believe that it was advanced armament haki. Why else would you punching the ground destroy the entire thing? It wasn't even like he punched really hard.
It has got to be "haki flow" that destroyed it.

I will agree that what he did against Fujitora in Dresrossa isn't enough to justify him being YC1+
You have given enough panels proving that it was all a charade from Fujitora.

I will however argue that what Sabo managed in Reverie is worthy of a YC1+ or at minimum YC1 caliber.
It is implied that it was primarily Sabo that held back two admirals. Since it was only Sabo that was split from the other rev commanders. The most obvious way this makes sense, is if Sabo remained to buy time for the other commanders to escape.

We saw Fujitora with bandages after Reverie, IIRC. Even if Fujitora was again playing the fool, Greenbull definitely didn't. Sabo managed to buy time against two admirals, even if they couldn't go all out given the circumstances.
I think that is worthy if YC1+

Ace being YC1 is a joke. Marco, Jozu, and Vista were stronger than Ace. Ace even though he was the 2nd Division Commander (this does equate to YC2), he was considered a hot headed rookie among the other WBP Commanders. Even Shanks knew it and warned WB about Ace going after Teach. Ace had potential but he was a hot head (pun intended) and would not be in the same league as Kata, King or Marco.

??
I never said Ace was YC1 tier lol. Why bring him up?

Though he probably is YC2+.
We've gone through this topic a thousand times earlier, and I know we will disagree. But rookie Ace ~ Jinbe.
Peak Ace > rookie Ace ~ Jinbe
Jinbe is at least Jack level.

I think Ace is on the same level as Jozu and Vista. Personally, I think stronger than Jozu but weaker than Vista

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 28, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 28, 2022 ---

The Narrative of the Story giving Boa a 1.6B Bounty already places her within that tier;

I disagree with this reasoning.

Crocodile has a bounty of ~2 billion, and I would need concrete proof (through manga feats or statements) to even put him at YC1, let alone YC1+
Jozu and Doflamingo had solid portrayal over Crocodile in Marineford, and this was post retcon after Alabasta arc.

It's simply the recent Shichibukai wank from Oda. Jinbe, who tied with rookie Ace, is getting 1.1 billion as well.
Prior portrayal put Doflamingo and Boa kinda relative.

Now, could there be a retcon in the making? Probably, Oda is infamous for the random powerups and retcons. What Oda did with Crocodile is amongst the most prominent examples.
But this could also simply be the "Shichibukai notoriety" at play as well. Shichibukai title seems to carry more weight that commander title, for whatever reason.
Point being...Until the retcon is confirmed in manga, we shouldn't simply use their bounty to assume Croc/Boa/Kuma being YC1+, or Jinbe being YC1, as a fact. Though, I can see where you are coming from, if you do that. We can simply agree to disagree until confirmed by the manga, instead of calling each other in denail, agenda driven etc.


As for Kuma......the dude is a complete wildcard. We know literally nothing about him, so I wouldn't even bother ranking him. Perfect example of "belongs in Hon mentions"

 

[XXGenesis]

It's simply the recent Shichibukai wank from Oda. Jinbe, who tied with rookie Ace, is getting 1.1 billion as well.
Prior portrayal put Doflamingo and Boa kinda relative.

Now, could there be a retcon in the making? Probably, Oda is infamous for the random powerups and retcons. What Oda did with Crocodile is amongst the most prominent examples.
But this could also simply be the "Shichibukai notoriety" at play as well. Shichibukai title seems to carry more weight that commander title, for whatever reason.
Point being...Until the retcon is confirmed in manga, we shouldn't simply use their bounty to assume Croc/Boa/Kuma being YC1+, or Jinbe being YC1, as a fact. Though, I can see where you are coming from, if you do that. We can simply agree to disagree until confirmed by the manga, instead of calling each other in denail, agenda driven etc.


As for Kuma......the dude is a complete wildcard. We know literally nothing about him, so I wouldn't even bother ranking him. Perfect example of "belongs in Hon mentions"

It is a retcon imo. It’s not wank, before they were Wanking..Now Oda is Retconing their positions; Fully revealing the title is just for show.

I saw those chapters of Seraphs & Bounties as Oda setting up the new standard. As well with those Bounties adding numerous Billion Bounties, previously thought only for Top Yonkou commanders…

Warlords are Captains. The commanders aren’t. Same way Kidd & Law are Captains, & Zoro isn’t…Similar thing going on here. Captains just stand out & above a bit more.

 

[HereNThere]

Eh, the Shichibukai have always been made out to be a big deal. While I'm still not entirely sure about their overall benefit to the WG's balance of power, they were always given a ton of lip service in regard to their power. Yes, their early portrayal doesn't really mesh with the power they are supposed to have now, so it is a bit of a retcon on the power scale side, but I think this current hype they are receiving is more consistent with what they are supposed to represent.

Personally, I'm more than fine with thinking that most of them are stronger than the Commanders we've seen so far. Especially given where we are at in the story.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yes as he should be
But live we’ve seen luffy who’s an extremely powerful yonkou couldn’t break out of Bonney DF effect , it’s not something everything yonkou can do

They were hiding from the Kuma clone. There was no need for him to "Break out" of the DF effect.

That's a disingenuous way to interpret that situation. Luffy wasn't in battle, they were trying to escape

 

[grey matter]

Eh, the Shichibukai have always been made out to be a big deal. While I'm still not entirely sure about their overall benefit to the WG's balance of power, they were always given a ton of lip service in regard to their power. Yes, their early portrayal doesn't really mesh with the power they are supposed to have now, so it is a bit of a retcon on the power scale side, but I think this current hype they are receiving is more consistent with what they are supposed to represent.

Personally, I'm more than fine with thinking that most of them are stronger than the Commanders we've seen so far. Especially given where we are at in the story.

Marineford portrayal was : Doflamingo/Jozu > Crocodile.
Feats of rookie Ace ~ Jinbe < YC Ace.
We have portrayal from post TS indicating that Doflamingo and Boa are relative.
etc.

I can buy the Shichibukai (bar Mihawk) being kinda relative to low-mid Yonko

The way I see Shichibukai is that 7 OG Shichibukai = 1 Yonko crew.
Mihawk = Yonko
Rest = commander levels


As for how the Shichibukai helped WG.
IMO Marines > 2 Yonko crews. If two Yonkos formed alliance, marines will win, but at very high cost. Adding shichibukai to the mix means marines can decisively win, even if two Yonkos made an alliance.
Marines (+ WG) + Shichibukai = 4 Yonkos
Just my heacanon.

It is a retcon imo. It’s not wank, before they were Wanking..Now Oda is Retconing their positions; Fully revealing the title is just for show.

I saw those chapters of Seraphs & Bounties as Oda setting up the new standard. As well with those Bounties adding numerous Billion Bounties, previously thought only for Top Yonkou commanders…

Warlords are Captains. The commanders aren’t. Same way Kidd & Law are Captains, & Zoro isn’t…Similar thing going on here. Captains just stand out & above a bit more.

I'm just saying let's wait for feats to prove that retcon is confirmed.

I personally lean towards a retcon in the making as well......just saying we need the confirmation via feats/clear-cut statements.

 

[XXGenesis]

@grey matter We shouldn’t kill someone for reasonable foresight.

It’s just my adamant opinion and perspective I prefer to stick to because it makes the most sense to me. I ain’t saying everyone else should or has to think this way….,It wasn’t you but Albert..Same sentiments.

Ppl think Sanji is YC1 lv….Shiieet after they explain why; I just disagree & keep it pushing.

 

[kkck]

Eh, the Shichibukai have always been made out to be a big deal. While I'm still not entirely sure about their overall benefit to the WG's balance of power, they were always given a ton of lip service in regard to their power. Yes, their early portrayal doesn't really mesh with the power they are supposed to have now, so it is a bit of a retcon on the power scale side, but I think this current hype they are receiving is more consistent with what they are supposed to represent.

Personally, I'm more than fine with thinking that most of them are stronger than the Commanders we've seen so far. Especially given where we are at in the story.

To me this looks more like how the manga portrays them has changed along with the power creep. Early in the story they were said to be one of the worlds 3 powers along with the marines and yonko. But its fairly clear 7 shichibukai can't possible compare to the marines or the whole of yonko. In context they were more along the lines of 7 strong but uncooperative folk. It's also the case that the first iteration of shichibukai we saw was lackluster at best. Crocodile was defeated by luffy, by all accounts less than worthless fodder by current standards, and moria was pretty weak as well. During the war it took the whole of marine forces to actually put a halt to the WB pirates...

In the end even the shichibukai are merely 7 dudes. The marines and yonko are world powers because they have actual military might.

 

[shailks]

Boa Hancock’s combat Prowess primarily relys on a Haxx. She easily gets OP by Top tiers due to lower physical prowess; She’s not Yonko tier . Definitely towards the bottom amongst YC1+

This is how I see it as well. It would be like saying Apoo is a tier above Luffy because he managed to get the better of him once. Once a person understands the trick, they can relatively easily counter it. Same with Hancock, didn’t a VA countered her ability by cutting himself? The situation with BB was different as he needed his guys back. Taking Hancock on her word would be plain stupid and risky, and hence his comment.

 

[kkck]

It's a huge stretch that even knowing about it hancock's ability can be easily countered. Momonga cut himself to avoid the ability but... that's not a permanent solution by any means. Reliably countering hancock's ability means completely shutting down your capacity to feel sexual attraction to her. I wouldn't be surprised if her ability is so OP that thinking she smells nice is enough to petrify a blind man..

 

[Pirate Queen]

I wouldn't be surprised if her ability is so OP that thinking she smells nice is enough to petrify a blind man..

False. She is a human and as such is made up of meat... Luffy did not find her attractive even though she is made out of the stuff he likes.

(This is a joke)

 

[albertwv]

Oda retconning the Warlords leaves a bad taste. I think it is hard to say that because Hancock and Crocodile and Jimbei have received bounties higher than a YC1, they are automatically YC1 + (minus Jimbe). I personally think Oda over exaggerated in giving them such huge bounties when nothing shows they are of that level. If anything I am disappointed in Oda. But it is probably pure wank. I remember seeing the Warlords with huge bounties and thinking they were a step below the Yonkos. Then after DD's defeat we saw how strong the YC's were with Jack, Cracker and Katakuri, with them being barely around $1billion. The warlords were then forgotten and treated as below YC's. Now the Warlords are given huge bounty amounts that surpass the YC's and people think they are YC1+ now. Lol.
Besides Mihawk who rivals Shanks, no other warlord is close to Kaido/Shanks/BM/WB's level.

Btw, I wouldn't place Sanji as YC1, just yet. I would put him as high YC2. Zolo personally would be a high YC1 but not YC1+ or "low Yonko level".
I don't automatically place them higher after they've defeated a certain character, depending on how the fight went. We saw how exhausted both Sanji and Zolo were after defeating the YC's. Could they defeat them in a second round, both fighters full health? I definitely think so, with still some difficulty BUT will win either way.
Just like I don't believe current Luffy is stronger than Kaido in a second 1v1. but let's not go down that road.

 

[Fox666]

Where as ACoC has "electric" sound effect like zap or "zzst"

To be fair, it's not just Haki infusion that does that