One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[funkyfrog]

luci is clearly atleast a solid low level admiral tier. his fruit, technike and haki seem too strong for anything lower than that. especially since ecihiro portrays him as a very dangerous and efficient fighter with great potential - like a wg version of luffy. wouldnt be surprised if eichiro will give luci kings haki too either right now or later on. there is no other way for him to fix his messed up power scalling caused by that silly short time skip, whick made everyone grow like it had actually passed 10 instead of just 2 years....

 

[Fox666]

Your evidence is a reference to PH no?

Yes, but it's Franky in Chopper's body who has no control over it, so I assume Monster Point has the same power as pre-timeskip

 

[albertwv]

Did Luffy really have to go into Gear 5 to fight Lucci? even if Lucci was awakened?
When does Luffy ever go full strength at the start of a fight? When he fought Kaido, he started with a Gear 3 Punch (in both occasions) Elephant Gun and Red Rock.
This power scaling has gone to shit, if a low Yonko level fighter like Luffy can't one shot Lucci. Lucci can't be that strong in 2 years.
Like who else from Pre TS has jumped several levels to YC1? Not Luffy the main character, not Zolo, not any supernova.

If Lucci is awakened, can we confirm that Kaido is awakened too?

 

[Rein Avara]

Did Luffy really have to go into Gear 5 to fight Lucci? even if Lucci was awakened?
When does Luffy ever go full strength at the start of a fight? When he fought Kaido, he started with a Gear 3 Punch (in both occasions) Elephant Gun and Red Rock.
This power scaling has gone to shit, if a low Yonko level fighter like Luffy can't one shot Lucci. Lucci can't be that strong in 2 years.
Like who else from Pre TS has jumped several levels to YC1? Not Luffy the main character, not Zolo, not any supernova.

If Lucci is awakened, can we confirm that Kaido is awakened too?

Narrative, literally just narrative.

It was just an excuse for Oda to show the SHP and VP reacting to Gear 5.

 

[Nie Li]

Did Luffy really have to go into Gear 5 to fight Lucci? even if Lucci was awakened?
When does Luffy ever go full strength at the start of a fight? When he fought Kaido, he started with a Gear 3 Punch (in both occasions) Elephant Gun and Red Rock.
This power scaling has gone to shit, if a low Yonko level fighter like Luffy can't one shot Lucci. Lucci can't be that strong in 2 years.
Like who else from Pre TS has jumped several levels to YC1? Not Luffy the main character, not Zolo, not any supernova.

If Lucci is awakened, can we confirm that Kaido is awakened too?

Literally all of the people you quoted made that jump from Sabaody to Wano. We hadn't seen Lucci since Enies Lobby, so it's literally the same jump.

 

[albertwv]

Literally all of the people you quoted made that jump from Sabaody to Wano. We hadn't seen Lucci since Enies Lobby, so it's literally the same jump.

I meant who AFTER the timeskip made the jump to YC1 in their post timeskip introduction? Not Luffy, not Zolo, not any Supernova. Immediately Post Timeskip, Luffy was max YC3 level with Gear 4. none of the supernova were that strong as far as we know.
Luffy only made the jump to YC1 after fighting strong individuals like Doffy, Cracker, and Kata.
There's no indication that Lucci immediately after post timeskip became YC1. People claim he went through training and was being hunted by the WG and maybe fought strong opponents. I doubt he was hunted by strong WG characters or that he fought anybody that much stronger than a YC3.

Luffy has the power of the MC to make such a huge jump but even then he only made it to YC3. Lucci became the Golden Frieza of One Piece. Such a shame.

 

[Nie Li]

I meant who AFTER the timeskip made the jump to YC1 in their post timeskip introduction? Not Luffy, not Zolo, not any Supernova. Immediately Post Timeskip, Luffy was max YC3 level with Gear 4. none of the supernova were that strong as far as we know.
Luffy only made the jump to YC1 after fighting strong individuals like Doffy, Cracker, and Kata.
There's no indication that Lucci immediately after post timeskip became YC1. People claim he went through training and was being hunted by the WG and maybe fought strong opponents. I doubt he was hunted by strong WG characters or that he fought anybody that much stronger than a YC3.

Luffy has the power of the MC to make such a huge jump but even then he only made it to YC3. Lucci became the Golden Frieza of One Piece. Such a shame.

But it's not "immediately after the timeskip" anymore. Law and Kid have also reached YC1~ levels without doing anything to deserve it other than being on-panel. The only difference here, that is upsetting most users on the forum, is that Lucci's grow was offscreen, but it was proportional.

Characters growing and the world moving offscreen while the MCs do stuff is one of the best things about OP. No shame here.

 

[Pirate Queen]

But it's not "immediately after the timeskip" anymore. Law and Kid have also reached YC1~ levels without doing anything to deserve it other than being on-panel. The only difference here, that is upsetting most users on the forum, is that Lucci's grow was offscreen, but it was proportional.

Characters growing and the world moving offscreen while the MCs do stuff is one of the best things about OP. No shame here.

I think another thing that is bothering people, mainly the Luffy stans, is that Luffy name is now used in the same breath as "God" Nika. Now the word God in another manga would mean Luffy has transcended the realm of motrals and is now untouchable because he is so powerful. Only the strongest of the strong should be able to do anything now because Luffy is a GOD. Fans take that word way too literally and allow it to obscure their reasoning. The bottom line is that Luffy is JUST an awakened DF user, and a newbie one at that, and it makes absolute sense for another awakened devil fruit user to be able to fight him equally.

And that's not to take away from Luffy, he is a Yonko and is clearly respected as such. Luffy and Lucci have history. Rob Lucci wouldn't straight up fight Shanks or BB without permission

 

[albertwv]

No way is anybody calling or thinking of Luffy as a "God" but he is now considered a "Yonko". Even among the Yonko's I believe he is on the lower end. Yet, Lucci or any YC1 should not be able to "equally" clash with Luffy. Imagine Awakened Lucci clashing equally in a punch with Base Kaido.
Luffy ISNT "just" an awakened DF user AND no it does not make sense that any awakened DF user should be able to fight him.
Are you saying that Awakened Doffy should be able to fight Luffy? Or better yet, any of the ID Mino Beasts? LMAO.

Lucci's off screen power up overshadows any of the pre timeskip characters that got stronger over the timeskip. That includes, the main character Luffy, Zolo, Sanji, Kid, Law, other Supernova, VA Smoker, etc.
Lucci's reappearance was in Dressrosa, shortly after Luffy demonstrated he was YC3 level. Would you assume that Lucci was YC1+ at that time?

 

[Nie Li]

This is all still much less humiliating than Jinbe and Robin throwing Big Mom around.

Lucci's off screen power up overshadows any of the pre timeskip characters that got stronger over the timeskip. That includes, the main character Luffy, Zolo, Sanji, Kid, Law, other Supernova, VA Smoker, etc.

Lucci's reappearance was in Dressrosa, shortly after Luffy demonstrated he was YC3 level. Would you assume that Lucci was YC1+ at that time?

And why would Lucci be YC1+ at that time? Because he's now? Luffy has had time to become a Yonko since then, why do you think Lucci must be stuck in a powerlevel limbo since the timeskip started until now? All this time that's passed everyone has become stronger.

He's poweredup more than the rest during the timeskip... because his timeskip has been many times longer than the rest. If you were to simply compare the timelines of the powerups of Luffy, Zoro, Law and Kid and stop thinking about "timeskips", you'd stop being mad.

I was right in my previous post, this is all because "things not happening screen" breaks some minds. Unless Law and Kid being as powerful as they are bothers you just as much.

 

[albertwv]

This is all still much less humiliating than Jinbe and Robin throwing Big Mom around.


And why would Lucci be YC1+ at that time? Because he's now? Luffy has had time to become a Yonko since then, why do you think Lucci must be stuck in a powerlevel limbo since the timeskip started until now? All this time that's passed everyone has become stronger.

He's poweredup more than the rest during the timeskip... because his timeskip has been many times longer than the rest. If you were to simply compare the timelines of the powerups of Luffy, Zoro, Law and Kid and stop thinking about "timeskips", you'd stop being mad.

I was right in my previous post, this is all because "things not happening screen" breaks some minds. Unless Law and Kid being as powerful as they are bothers you just as much.

Im not mad. I am disappointed in Oda's work.
What proof do we have that Lucci has powered up, in every scene since the timeskip? So you're saying Lucci has gotten stronger since the timeskip and each scene before this current chapter, he has gotten stronger and stronger just like Luffy due to what?

Luffy is the main character and has fought several strong characters (DD, Cracker, Kata, Kaido), to reach the level he is. Has Lucci fought characters that strong or near that level to reach his current level? We're not sure. Zolo has gone through a few opponents to reach this level.
Not Luffy or Zolo or Law or Kid have magically just become this strong since the timeskip.

Yeah I was upset about Law and Kid' stupid power up, many people were too about Law's portrayal. How tf did Law who was losing to a YC3 DD, go from that to fighting off a Yonko. It made no sense, but Oda decided it that way. That is why I am disappointed with Oda's work. He should make it make sense.

Sorry that I want the story/narrative to make sense. That's too much to ask.

 

[Nie Li]

Im not mad. I am disappointed in Oda's work.
What proof do we have that Lucci has powered up, in every scene since the timeskip? So you're saying Lucci has gotten stronger since the timeskip and each scene before this current chapter, he has gotten stronger and stronger just like Luffy due to what?

Do to things we didn't see. It's the offscreening that's upsetting disappointing you. Lucci hasn't spent all this time looking at the ceiling. He has had the same time as everyone else.

Luffy is the main character and has fought several strong characters (DD, Cracker, Kata, Kaido), to reach the level he is. Has Lucci fought characters that strong or near that level to reach his current level? We're not sure. Zolo has gone through a few opponents to reach this level.
Not Luffy or Zolo or Law or Kid have magically just become this strong since the timeskip.

You keep repeating this but next paragraph you say you're also upset about Law and Kid's power up. This is a contradiction.

It's pointless to keep pointing out how this isn't "since the timeskip" anymore. This is a whole saga after the timeskip.

Yeah I was upset about Law and Kid' stupid power up, many people were too about Law's portrayal. How tf did Law who was losing to a YC3 DD, go from that to fighting off a Yonko. It made no sense, but Oda decided it that way. That is why I am disappointed with Oda's work. He should make it make sense.

Sorry that I want the story/narrative to make sense. That's too much to ask.

It's okay if Law and Kid's powerups also bother you. That gives you a leg to stand on. But it takes away the leg to comment "they didn't magically become this strong as well".

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2022, Original Post Date: Dec 13, 2022 ---

I think another thing that is bothering people, mainly the Luffy stans, is that Luffy name is now used in the same breath as "God" Nika.

Minor correction after giving it some thought. It's the word "Yonko" that's causing all of this.

People have learnt nothing from Big Mom.

 

[XXGenesis]

I still enjoy One Piece very much. But after so many consistent flaws, especially on the heels of an arc like Wano ( very enjoyable, but issues were very present ). I’m not going to hold back critism anymore

We say Offscreen? O Plz, It wasn’t until recently that note worthy characters started to make so many offscreen moves…Still yet we seldomly get multiple characters from the world involved in these off screen developments??

Point being, Lucci should have been built back up as a potential threat, listing some of his achievements over the TS…Because what kind of adversity & challenges did Lucci face to grow this much?? It’s bad writing; That we use flimsy reasoning for.

Lucci has not been facing the worlds strongest, while Luffy has. Idk. But I don’t like how Oda handles the subtle clashes with characters; & ambiguity of certain scenes. he’s just done the same thing for too long.

 

[albertwv]

I still enjoy One Piece very much. But after so many consistent flaws, especially on the heels of an arc like Wano ( very enjoyable, but issues were very present ). I’m not going to hold back critism anymore

We say Offscreen? O Plz, It wasn’t until recently that note worthy characters started to make so many offscreen moves…Still yet we seldomly get multiple characters from the world involved in these off screen developments??

Point being, Lucci should have been built back up as a potential threat, listing some of his achievements over the TS…Because what kind of adversity & challenges did Lucci face to grow this much?? It’s bad writing; That we use flimsy reasoning for.

Lucci has not been facing the worlds strongest, while Luffy has. Idk. But I don’t like how Oda handles the subtle clashes with characters; & ambiguity of certain scenes. he’s just done the same thing for too long.

I agree.
I don't hate Lucci and I'm not a "Luffy Stan". I don't approve of Law and Kid's sudden power up during Wano.
I want consistency in the story and in the power level growth.

I would understand if Lucci's growth was put into sense. That Lucci fought somebody strong, trained under a legend, or anything that authenticates his absurd growth in power level. It is hard for me to imagine that somebody ( a previous villain) from the pre timeskip was able to overcome Luffy, the main character's, post time skip growth.

Or has Oda decided to drop the power level world building and make everyone from this point forward YC1 level just to be a blessing to compete with Luffy and the straw hats?
Imagine we see Coby again and he is YC1 level. LOL.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I agree.
I don't hate Lucci and I'm not a "Luffy Stan". I don't approve of Law and Kid's sudden power up during Wano.
I want consistency in the story and in the power level growth.

I would understand if Lucci's growth was put into sense. That Lucci fought somebody strong, trained under a legend, or anything that authenticates his absurd growth in power level. It is hard for me to imagine that somebody ( a previous villain) from the pre timeskip was able to overcome Luffy, the main character's, post time skip growth.

Or has Oda decided to drop the power level world building and make everyone from this point forward YC1 level just to be a blessing to compete with Luffy and the straw hats?
Imagine we see Coby again and he is YC1 level. LOL.

We don't need to waste time explaining Lucci's power, he's a battle genius like Luffy and it's only natural he'd keep pace. Naturally he's still way behind an actual Emperor, but there is nothing remotely ridiculous to assume Lucci's hovering around YC1. He's the strongest WG CP agent. C'mon, we don't need an extended flashback or extraneous dialogue describing how many sit-ups Lucci did or how Kong personally trained him or whatever. We need to MOVE THE STORY ALONG.

Funny you mention that, I have Lucci, Sabo, and Coby all at YC1 and have had that predicted for like a year now. Is it clunky that the timeline is so incredibly compressed? Absolutely. Is the power progression itself as wacky as you claim? Absolutely not. I will admit that the former problem is bleeding into the latter and exacerbating it, but it's not the powerscaling itself that's the problem.

Also, "overcome" is kinda silly to put there. This series is like 80% clashes, and all we've gotten from Luffy vs. Lucci is a callback to their first clash, and then Luffy effortlessly styling about with Lucci.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Lucci "Admiral -" level

 

[LaGOAT]

Lucci "Admiral -" level

Those are facts now lol

 

[Ricko]

Those are facts now lol

I think people make lot of error in battle power in One Piece !
They make mistake between Battle Skill and Battle Capacity.

Luffy and Lucci always were genius in fighting, their skill even preskip were top player.
What Luffy lack in his last battle were capacity !

Against Katakury it's speed to overcome Future Sight Defence.
Against Kaido it was a way to penetrate his defence with advanced Haki and CoC coating.
Against Doflamingo it was a mix of both, because G3 could hurt Dofly but was to slow, and G2 has speed but lacked power. G4 capacity helped in both.

To keep in fight with G5 Luffy should not be impossible for Lucci, he got the physical and combat prowess to do so.
But does he have the capacity to hurt Luffy ? That's the most important question before we can say he's admiral level...
Someone as strong as Marco, couldn't hurt badly Admirals, like against Yonkou you need high level capacity to play in this ground.
That can be incredible strength (like Garp or King Isabello), Insane Devil fruit (Like Law or Akainu) or full mastery of Haki.

It's like in WoW, you can be the best DPS player, without the stuff you will not be able to use your skill at fullest.
And you can have the best equipement, without skill you will not do miracle !!!

Luccy always had the skill, but to hurt Admiral and Yonkou that's not enough !

 

[grey matter]

@albertwv
I agree with overall what you're saying. Lucci even reaching YC1 (let alone potentially yc1+) is a big deal, cause that's amongst the strongest non top tiers in the verse. I would've loved to see "catalogues" as you put it, indicating what he went through to reach that level.

But, assuming Lucci is YC1.... why shouldn't a YC1 clash equally with a Luffy who is just using basic armament and not advanced Conqueror's/armament? Did we forget what took Luffy from that tier to Yonko level to begin with? Yeah, it's primarily advanced Conqueror's, not awakening.

And why is a YC1 holding his own against a Yonko so bothering? Is it because an admiral came and rolled a King who was injured and missing a wing (and maybe an arm)? The said admiral had hax capable of bypassing defense (King's greatest asset) btw.
The fact is, high commander level characters such as Marco, Jozu and Vista have already been shown to have clashed equally with characters comparable to Yonkos, during Marineford. So, this isn't unprecedented by any means.

Now I would get you if Luffy used one of his top tier moves and Lucci clashed evenly with that. But that isn't what happened though

 

[albertwv]

We don't need to waste time explaining Lucci's power, he's a battle genius like Luffy and it's only natural he'd keep pace. Naturally he's still way behind an actual Emperor, but there is nothing remotely ridiculous to assume Lucci's hovering around YC1. He's the strongest WG CP agent. C'mon, we don't need an extended flashback or extraneous dialogue describing how many sit-ups Lucci did or how Kong personally trained him or whatever. We need to MOVE THE STORY ALONG.

Funny you mention that, I have Lucci, Sabo, and Coby all at YC1 and have had that predicted for like a year now. Is it clunky that the timeline is so incredibly compressed? Absolutely. Is the power progression itself as wacky as you claim? Absolutely not. I will admit that the former problem is bleeding into the latter and exacerbating it, but it's not the powerscaling itself that's the problem.

Also, "overcome" is kinda silly to put there. This series is like 80% clashes, and all we've gotten from Luffy vs. Lucci is a callback to their first clash, and then Luffy effortlessly styling about with Lucci.

A quick explanation would make all this make sense, we don't need a whole backstory or flashback but that would be nice. Just saying that I find it hard too believe that Lucci fought really tough opponents like Luffy did or that he was trained by a legend from the WG.

Nowhere does it state that he is CP0's strongest agent, so idk where people are getting that idea from. We saw how quickly the other CP0 members who were thought to be senior and possibly the strongest among CP0 get wrecked by Izo, Drake, and finally Kaido. An injured Izo managed to kill one CP0 member, a wounded Drake managed to stab and injure a CP0 member, with Kaido one hit KO'd the CP0 member.

Coby at YC1? God damn. I wouldn't put him that far up just yet, not until he's proven himself more. IMO, YC1 is the pinnacle before reaching the top of the top (admiral, Yonko, Roger level).
When I mentioned "overcome", I mean't the growth of the characters. Luffy being the MC should be the only one with a massive unexplainable amount of growth throughout the series. At least in Shonen, that's how it works. No other characters, except the MC's rival overcomes the growth of the MC.

@grey matter I'm thinking about the time Kaido one hit KO'd Gear 4 Luffy in Wano and how BM KO'd Queen. Also, Gear 5/Awakening seems to be Luffy's strongest power up, past his gear 2,3, and 4.

Lucci and Luffy clashed equally (it is portrayed as that) when they both punched each other with CoA. We know Luffy has ACoA and ACoC, at the very least ACoA was in that punch. Yet they both were went flying backwards, Luffy should have won in that exchange and not be sent backwards.
Now if it was basic Luffy no gears/awakening, I would totally understand, but IMO this is like saying Luffy took Lucci seriously like he would Kaido and went full gear 5 awakening from the start.

Also, a little besides the point, but Luffy's ACoO/FS sucks ass, or is it Oda using it only when he remembers. Luffy should have seen that coming, that Lucci was going to stab Sentomaru.