One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

Damn ppl really don’t give Ace enough credit not even with his hype lol. He went up against BlackBeard are we forgetting this notable feat?? Ace is cooking Queen or Featless Smoothie imo.
Ace should be High YC2 imo. Arguments could even be made that he could defeat Vista.


Jozu YC1 !! Wow, I’ve never seen anyone rate him so high. The Iceberg; Sword Block & tackle were impressive; I think he’s pretty relative to High YC3 & YC2 characters much more than any YC1 character. As even Doflamingo had him pretty helpless in his DF ability.

The thing with Ace is.... I dont see him beating Doffy. Doffy has better Haki control, DF ability plus awakening. Look at how Doffy handled Smoker, he could probably handle Ace like that too. Ace seems overconfident and depended too much on his DF ability.
I strongly believe the veteran WB commanders Marco, Vista, Jozu and maybe Thatch, could defeat Ace.
Ace is overestimated due to his popularity and relation to Roger and Luffy. Ace had a bright future (pun intended) but Shanks and even WB saw how hot headed (pun intended again) he was which caused his own downfall.

Jozu has great feats that almost nobody else has seen replicating. Blocking a strong slash from Mihawk and tackling Aokiji who was in his Logia form enough to make him bleed. For a big guy, he was fast, even Crocodile another Logia veteran could not stop him.
People knock him down ONLY because Doffy stopped him with his strings. Doffy stopped Luffy (albeit weak) and even Sanji. I doubt Doffy would have been able to cut Jozu's diamond form even with Haki. If Mihawk's powerful slash couldn't, then Doffy's strings even less.

Ace could not defeat Vista, no way. It would be a tough fight for Vista but he would come out on top. Vista managed to irritate Akainu with his slash. Akainu used FS to wiggle his way out of the slash, but some reason I doubt Ace could do the same. We dont know if Vista could cut fire like Kinemon, but I wouldnt be surprised if he could. I see Vista stronger than any of the 9 Red Scabbards even their Sulong Forms.

IMO: WB >>> Marco > Jozu >/ Vista > Thatch? >/ Ace > Izo and the rest of the WB Commanders.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

The thing with Ace is.... I dont see him beating Doffy. Doffy has better Haki control, DF ability plus awakening. Look at how Doffy handled Smoker, he could probably handle Ace like that too. Ace seems overconfident and depended too much on his DF ability.
I strongly believe the veteran WB commanders Marco, Vista, Jozu and maybe Thatch, could defeat Ace.
Ace is overestimated due to his popularity and relation to Roger and Luffy. Ace had a bright future (pun intended) but Shanks and even WB saw how hot headed (pun intended again) he was which caused his own downfall.

Jozu has great feats that almost nobody else has seen replicating. Blocking a strong slash from Mihawk and tackling Aokiji who was in his Logia form enough to make him bleed. For a big guy, he was fast, even Crocodile another Logia veteran could not stop him.
People knock him down ONLY because Doffy stopped him with his strings. Doffy stopped Luffy (albeit weak) and even Sanji. I doubt Doffy would have been able to cut Jozu's diamond form even with Haki. If Mihawk's powerful slash couldn't, then Doffy's strings even less.

Ace could not defeat Vista, no way. It would be a tough fight for Vista but he would come out on top. Vista managed to irritate Akainu with his slash. Akainu used FS to wiggle his way out of the slash, but some reason I doubt Ace could do the same. We dont know if Vista could cut fire like Kinemon, but I wouldnt be surprised if he could. I see Vista stronger than any of the 9 Red Scabbards even their Sulong Forms.

IMO: WB >>> Marco > Jozu >/ Vista > Thatch? >/ Ace > Izo and the rest of the WB Commanders.

I think ace sorta got retconned into having decent haki
Also ace is much stronger than smoker especially offensively , their issues stems from mistranslation we aren’t sure if fire has DF superiority to smoke , or if they naturally cancel out
But same ace could at least block an aokiji attack , smoker would be quite useless in the same situation , and he’d fare much worse agaisnt pre TS Blackbeard even in his current iteration post timekskip iteration would get shit on way worse than pre TS ace ( at least last we saw him, he was struggling with vergo )
Styles make fight, akainu was a horrid matchup and all ace did was sacrifice himself they didn’t even really fight after the first clash
Ace fire being super infective against akainu doesn’t mean it’ll be ineffective against anyone else

 

[Fox666]

The thing with Ace is.... I dont see him beating Doffy. Doffy has better Haki control, DF ability plus awakening. Look at how Doffy handled Smoker, he could probably handle Ace like that too. Ace seems overconfident and depended too much on his DF ability.
I strongly believe the veteran WB commanders Marco, Vista, Jozu and maybe Thatch, could defeat Ace.
Ace is overestimated due to his popularity and relation to Roger and Luffy. Ace had a bright future (pun intended) but Shanks and even WB saw how hot headed (pun intended again) he was which caused his own downfall.

Jozu has great feats that almost nobody else has seen replicating. Blocking a strong slash from Mihawk and tackling Aokiji who was in his Logia form enough to make him bleed. For a big guy, he was fast, even Crocodile another Logia veteran could not stop him.
People knock him down ONLY because Doffy stopped him with his strings. Doffy stopped Luffy (albeit weak) and even Sanji. I doubt Doffy would have been able to cut Jozu's diamond form even with Haki. If Mihawk's powerful slash couldn't, then Doffy's strings even less.

Ace could not defeat Vista, no way. It would be a tough fight for Vista but he would come out on top. Vista managed to irritate Akainu with his slash. Akainu used FS to wiggle his way out of the slash, but some reason I doubt Ace could do the same. We dont know if Vista could cut fire like Kinemon, but I wouldnt be surprised if he could. I see Vista stronger than any of the 9 Red Scabbards even their Sulong Forms.

IMO: WB >>> Marco > Jozu >/ Vista > Thatch? >/ Ace > Izo and the rest of the WB Commanders.

I would rate Vista above Jozu since he lasted until the end of the war

Also, didn't Doflamingo got the best of Jozu? Because of how the story played out, Doflamingo ended up not being that strong compared to Big Mom commanders.

Izo is quite strong. He was a pain in the to the CP0. I don't think he could be that far behind Jozu

Thatch did nothing in the series, why assume he was stronger than any random commander like Curiel or Atmos?

Regarding Ace, the Whitebeard Pirates expected him to replace their captain. I think he was only behind Marco. But he didn't really do anything that proves it...

 

[kkck]

I would rate Vista above Jozu since he lasted until the end of the war

Also, didn't Doflamingo got the best of Jozu? Because of how the story played out, Doflamingo ended up not being that strong compared to Big Mom commanders.

Izo quite strong. He was a pain in the to the CP0. I don't think he could be that far behind Jozu

Thatch did nothing in the series, why assume he was stronger than any random commander like Curiel or Atmos?

Regarding Ace, the Whitebeard Pirates expected him to replace their captain. I think he was only behind Marco. But he didn't really do anything that proves it...

Doflamingo at a point did manage to grab jozu with his string though IMO it's a bit of a stretch that doflamingo "got the best of him". It wasn't a direct confrontation and jozu was dealing with other stuff when doflamingo snuck up on him. Given how things turned out it's pretty unlikely doflamingo would last particularly long against jozu in a one vs one scenario.

 

[Crimson Ice]

The thing with Ace is.... I dont see him beating Doffy. Doffy has better Haki control, DF ability plus awakening. Look at how Doffy handled Smoker, he could probably handle Ace like that too. Ace seems overconfident and depended too much on his DF ability.
I strongly believe the veteran WB commanders Marco, Vista, Jozu and maybe Thatch, could defeat Ace.
Ace is overestimated due to his popularity and relation to Roger and Luffy. Ace had a bright future (pun intended) but Shanks and even WB saw how hot headed (pun intended again) he was which caused his own downfall.

Jozu has great feats that almost nobody else has seen replicating. Blocking a strong slash from Mihawk and tackling Aokiji who was in his Logia form enough to make him bleed. For a big guy, he was fast, even Crocodile another Logia veteran could not stop him.
People knock him down ONLY because Doffy stopped him with his strings. Doffy stopped Luffy (albeit weak) and even Sanji. I doubt Doffy would have been able to cut Jozu's diamond form even with Haki. If Mihawk's powerful slash couldn't, then Doffy's strings even less.

Ace could not defeat Vista, no way. It would be a tough fight for Vista but he would come out on top. Vista managed to irritate Akainu with his slash. Akainu used FS to wiggle his way out of the slash, but some reason I doubt Ace could do the same. We dont know if Vista could cut fire like Kinemon, but I wouldnt be surprised if he could. I see Vista stronger than any of the 9 Red Scabbards even their Sulong Forms.

IMO: WB >>> Marco > Jozu >/ Vista > Thatch? >/ Ace > Izo and the rest of the WB Commanders.

Ace has more potent haki than Doffy, the only decent feat Doffy showed was blocking a Gatling from Luffy, Doffy's arms was bypassed by Law with no room. And Oda flat out has Van Augur says Ace's abilities outside of his fruit were good, so it's a miracle that this point gets peddled by fans when Oda went out of his way to establish the opposite.

 

[Ricko]

I don't see Ace loosing badly to Doflamingo, the guy had bad matchup his only two real fights were against the two end boss of the game...
Black Beard even Shank praise him, and a monster like Shiryu follow him without question.
And Akainu is a even biggest monster, than the guy above with all a group of commander just flee in front of him....

Jozu could play a bit with Kuzan, he did far better than King vs GreenBull !
I would put him in the YC1 range, he can fight evenly with Kata or King.

Doffy is difficult to range because of his hax DF, he's like Law.
But in pure combat, without parasite, I think he would loose to Jozu.

Ace is a genious in combat, and his DF can deal big damage even for haki user.
How would Doffli deal with Dai Enkai: Entei ?

 

[albertwv]

"People knock JOZU down ONLY because Doffy stopped him with his strings. Doffy stopped Luffy (albeit weak) and even Sanji. I doubt Doffy would have been able to cut Jozu's diamond form even with Haki. If Mihawk's powerful slash couldn't, then Doffy's strings even less. " - Quoted from myself.
I guess people forgot to read that part. Then let me repeat myself.

I place Jozu > Doflamingo. I find it hard to believe Doffy's strings with CoA could cut through Jozu's Diamond Haki body. Jozu must have CoA, the way he damaged Aokiji. Jozu is fast, sneaking up on Crocodile (who always has his Logia form on) and Aokiji (an OG Admiral comparable to Akainu).

Ace, again with the Ace. People on here love to make excuses on him and treat him as if he were a GOD. Ace had potential but he lost it due to being overconfident. Shanks himself said it to WB.

Ace has more potent haki than Doffy, the only decent feat Doffy showed was blocking a Gatling from Luffy, Doffy's arms was bypassed by Law with no room. And Oda flat out has Van Augur says Ace's abilities outside of his fruit were good, so it's a miracle that this point gets peddled by fans when Oda went out of his way to establish the opposite.

Ummm.. show me where Ace has "more potent Haki than Doffy". Ace had yet to fully control his own CoC, while Doffy had mastered it . To me that shows how much greater is Doffy in using all Haki compared to Ace.

Ace's Fire blocking Aokiji's Ice is NO feat at all. It makes sense that Fire counters Ice. Now had his fire penetrated through the Ice and burnt Aokiji then it would be impressive but no. Jozu and Marcos did better in faring against Aokiji. Shit, Aokiji wasnt sweating Ace's fire, he managed to counter Akainu's magma later on in the story. Aokiji >>>>> Ace.

I would rate Vista above Jozu since he lasted until the end of the war
Also, didn't Doflamingo got the best of Jozu? Because of how the story played out, Doflamingo ended up not being that strong compared to Big Mom commanders.
Izo is quite strong. He was a pain in the to the CP0. I don't think he could be that far behind Jozu
Thatch did nothing in the series, why assume he was stronger than any random commander like Curiel or Atmos?
Regarding Ace, the Whitebeard Pirates expected him to replace their captain. I think he was only behind Marco. But he didn't really do anything that proves it...

I would say Jozu and Vista are the same maybe. Jozu went against Aokiji by himself and only lost due to turning away due to WB getting a heart attack. Yeah his fault but still, I wonder how far Jozu vs Aokiji would have gone. Not expecting a 10 day battle but still. Also, Diamond Jozu managed to block a poweful slash from Mihawk, while Vista only "sparred" with Mihawk. Who knows.

Izo is nowhere near YC level. He managed to take down a unknown power level CP0, who seems to be on the weaker side.
I think Thatch was in the Top 4/5 WB Commanders that were definitely above the rest. My opinion, maybe not. Whatever.

You said it yourself, Ace didnt do anything that proves it. Yes, WB wanted Ace to become the Pirate King, but not right away duh. He wanted Ace to keep growing, WB didnt want Ace to go after Teach for a reason. Even tho he was 2nd DC of the WBP, he was still considered a rookie among the veterans and among the Top 4.

I don't see Ace loosing badly to Doflamingo, the guy had bad matchup his only two real fights were against the two end boss of the game...
Jozu could play a bit with Kuzan, he did far better than King vs GreenBull !
I would put him in the YC1 range, he can fight evenly with Kata or King.
Ace is a genious in combat, and his DF can deal big damage even for haki user.
How would Doffli deal with Dai Enkai: Entei ?

Doffy could dodge or slice the Entei attack, Doffy was fearless even when WB raised 2 huge Tsunami's. He was literally enjoying himself. Doffy also cut into pieces a damn meteorite from Fujitora. Now I see Ace being able to put up a better fight than Smoker versus Doffy, but the result would be the same. Doffy outclasses Ace in CoC, CoA, and CoO. Not only that but DF Awakening. Doffy also seems to be fast and Ace not so much compared to Doffy.
For the record, I also think Doffy > Jimbei.

 

[kkck]

I think on paper ace should actually be stronger than doflamingo. Mostly because pre WB ace managed to tie with jinbe. Since then ace became stronger through fighting with WB daily and eventually got to the point where he could land an honest to god scratch on him. That said, ace's feats are hard to place with the current power scaling and we don't know exactly how skilled he was in haki because at the time oda chose to portray haki inconsistently and ambiguously at the expense of world building. I do think doflamingo should mid dif jinbe though.

 

[Fox666]

"People knock JOZU down ONLY because Doffy stopped him with his strings. Doffy stopped Luffy (albeit weak) and even Sanji. I doubt Doffy would have been able to cut Jozu's diamond form even with Haki. If Mihawk's powerful slash couldn't, then Doffy's strings even less. " - Quoted from myself.

Jozu's ability was decativated once he was under Doflamingo's control, or it has a time limit

Besides, even if he couldn't physically hurt Jozu, couldn't he just cover his nose and mouth with his hand and suffocate him?

 

[XXGenesis]

Ace Vs Jimbei…Tie
Ace Vs Blackbeard Feats/Portryal
Plus the narrative is more than enough for Ace to be above many commanders. Arguably a YC1 but not above any currently.

The Jozu..debate. Wouldn’t it make more sense that Jozu is actually more relative to YC3 commanders than YC1 characters; When he was instantly cooked by Kuzan & taken advantage of by Doflamingo…..YC1 have greater portryal than that

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I think there is an unhealthy level of comparison of pre skip feats with post skip feats through the lense of haki. All pre skip portrayals will appear lacking if we are thinking about it in terms of haki. What's important is how characters feats+portrayals stack against each other at any given point in the story. That way we can use characters that haven't changed much and are still around as our markers e.g. the OG Admirals, Shichibukai, and Yonko who are all relatively unchanged power level wise.

Characters like Jozu and Ace were definitely at least YC3/YC2 level fighters. Jozu was not under the control of Parasite, he was just trapped in the literal strings which we were never given a chance to see if he could break out of it. Parasite is the ability Doffy used on Atmos which controls the body where as Jozu was more like Luffy or Sanji when they physically got caught in the strings. We already know its possible to break out of them using brute force a la G4 Luffy in Dressrossa. On the part of Ace, he definitely tied with Jinbei (who is now a YC2 level fighter) after which he got even stronger fighting WB, he was able to give BB a solid fight (I'd argue that BB was YC1+ fighter preskip with just Yami Yami powers), was able to fight Aokiji and hold him back. These are all things we'd in current world expect of YC3/YC2 fighters.

Just because we didn't see any cool haki feats or awakening etc doesn't mean much. By those standards we'd be arguing people like Jinbei were weak pre skip since he had 0 haki feats.

 

[HereNThere]

Just because we didn't see any cool haki feats or awakening etc doesn't mean much.

Yup. Crocodile was in a similar place of vagueness as Ace was pre-time skip, but look at how Oda's portraying him now. Over a billion bounty and one-half of the actual power behind Buggy's current Yonkou status.

Ace, unfortunately, died before haki was fully established and before feats became much more consistent, but given his standing in the world at that point in time and how much hype he was given, it's safe to say he was decently strong. Yes, it's hard to guess where he was, but I think it's safe to say he was comparable to the more prominent and powerful Commanders.

 

[Ricko]

And we can add the fact that Ace was always portayed as a bit stronger than Sabo.
If he didn't died, Ace would be a beast today, at least at the range of Marco, but I think even stronger.

 

[Rmstorm]

Luffy was using it the entire time, yeah, but Kaidou seemingly used futuresight that one time just to show Luffy he could- there are dozens of big hits he could've avoided throughout Roofpiece if he had been using futuresight the whole time. The fight only ended in Luffy's favor explicitly because he refused to not purposefully face-tank Vajra Gun. Fighting seriously sure, but when did he ever dodge anything? And no I am not counting Zoro's missed slash, that's a whole bucket of worms I'm not trying to open lol

Nope, he used FS against Gear 5 Luffy to dodge his blows, after chapter 1045.

 

[LadyVados]

I don’t get the YC1+ Marco train.

He’s literally the first YC1 we saw (well there was Beckmann but he isn’t really a YC1)

He should be treated as the standard and benchmark for that tier.

A̶l̶s̶o̶ h̶e̶ l̶o̶s̶t̶ t̶o̶ K̶i̶n̶g̶ o̶n̶ p̶a̶n̶e̶l̶

If Marco isn’t YC1 tier no one is.

I also don’t think he has the feats to qualify as YC1+ tier. He’s just not on the same level as Zoro, Sabo, Kidd, Law or Yamato.

He has YC1+ tier defence maybe but his offence ain’t all that. He’s a gimmick fighter like Katakuri and even King to an extent. One guy can’t be hit, one guy regens from what you hit him with, one guy is so durable he can just tank anything with no damage.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2023, Original Post Date: Feb 6, 2023 ---

I remember back in the mid-2010s when everyone had Ace below Vergo and Doffy at Admiral level.

 

[Rein Avara]

Nope, he used FS against Gear 5 Luffy to dodge his blows, after chapter 1045.

based on what?

 

[XXGenesis]

I don’t get the YC1+ Marco train.

He’s literally the first YC1 we saw (well there was Beckmann but he isn’t really a YC1)

He should be treated as the standard and benchmark for that tier.

A̶l̶s̶o̶ h̶e̶ l̶o̶s̶t̶ t̶o̶ K̶i̶n̶g̶ o̶n̶ p̶a̶n̶e̶l̶

If Marco isn’t YC1 tier no one is.

I also don’t think he has the feats to qualify as YC1+ tier. He’s just not on the same level as Zoro, Sabo, Kidd, Law or Yamato.

He has YC1+ tier defence maybe but his offence ain’t all that. He’s a gimmick fighter like Katakuri and even King to an extent. One guy can’t be hit, one guy regens from what you hit him with, one guy is so durable he can just tank anything with no damage.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2023, Original Post Date: Feb 6, 2023 ---

I remember back in the mid-2010s when everyone had Ace below Vergo and Doffy at Admiral level.

Marco has the narrative from the Gorosei & Big Mom herself; Placing him above YC1; Some say this hype puts him higher…

His feats of handling King/Queen ended the way it should have. With Marco using up a lot of stamina to stall 2 strong Commanders…Narratively Zoro/Sanji was always going to switch out to fight….That being said Marco wasn’t even damaged, he was low on stamina; Easily showing 1 vs 1 Marco would have beaten either King/Queen.

 

[shailks]

Jozu's ability was decativated once he was under Doflamingo's control, or it has a time limit

Besides, even if he couldn't physically hurt Jozu, couldn't he just cover his nose and mouth with his hand and suffocate him?

Doflamingo reminds me of this sticker.

Is sticker stronger than the bodybuilder?

 

[albertwv]

Ace had the potential to grow stronger BUT he didn't. Unfortunately he died. Haki was already a thing during the Marineford arc, although we didn't see it fully colored, multiple characters were obviously using it.

Ace vs Aokiji is NOT a feat. Ace's FIRE negated Aokiji's ICE. This is no way means Ace could actually fight Aokiji or be near his level, when he could not even hurt Aokiji. Much less, when we later find out that Aokiji was able to fight on equal terms with Akainu, whose MAGMA >> Ace's FIRE.
Jozu vs Aokiji is a better feat than Ace vs Aokiji. Jozu managed to catch Aokiji off guard in terms of speed AND physically harm causing Aokiji to bleed. Unless I see Ace making Aokiji bleed, then Jozu > Ace.

Jozu being trapped by Doffy's strings does not automatically equate: Doffy > Jozu. Yes it's great on Doffy for being able to catch Jozu, but we didn't see him control Jozu or harm Jozu. Now, Jozu's diamond body managed to stop a powerful slash from Mihawk (who apparently is Yonko level) so what makes you think that Doffy's inferior strings would be able to cut Jozu's Diamond body?

We have no actual evidence that pre-TS BB with or without Dark DF is YC1. Those claiming he is, are just using BB as a tool in order to hype up Ace's lacking performance. Yes, pre-TS BB was indeed powerful but also clumsy and overconfident (like Ace). But to place him as strong as Katakuri or King, that is a no no. Definitely once BB attained the Gura DF then yes I can see it, but with just Dark DF, I can see Kata or King demolish him.
BB was knocked down and shed blood by a Pre TS Gear 2 punch. I do not see ANY YC3 and above getting knocked down by Pre TS Luffy.

I would argue Marco, Jozu and Vista were above Ace. They were seasoned veterans while Ace was still a rookie among them who thought he could take on anyone. Shit even WB told him to shut up, when Ace wanted to fight Kaido. WB even felt that Ace wasn't ready for BB and this was without knowing of BB's Dark DF.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Ace had the potential to grow stronger BUT he didn't. Unfortunately he died. Haki was already a thing during the Marineford arc, although we didn't see it fully colored, multiple characters were obviously using it.

Haki as a concept existed during Marineford but it was not fully used by any stretch of the imagination. We didn't see anything special with haki like aCoO, aCoA, or aCoC which made it harder to judge the gap in strength between the stronger fighters. In the material that has come out since Oda has confirmed that Ace was able to use basic haki. From a haki stand point Ace is in the same ball park as any YC that hasn't shown advanced haki.

Ace vs Aokiji is NOT a feat. Ace's FIRE negated Aokiji's ICE. This is no way means Ace could actually fight Aokiji or be near his level, when he could not even hurt Aokiji. Much less, when we later find out that Aokiji was able to fight on equal terms with Akainu, whose MAGMA >> Ace's FIRE.
Jozu vs Aokiji is a better feat than Ace vs Aokiji. Jozu managed to catch Aokiji off guard in terms of speed AND physically harm causing Aokiji to bleed. Unless I see Ace making Aokiji bleed, then Jozu > Ace.

FIRE negating ICE is head canon. When you have elemental opposites you cannot argue that one negates the other without making the reverse case e.g. one can argue that ICE negates FIRE. In this particular case what we know is that Ace was able to counter Aokiji's name sake attack (Pheasant Peck). This is the same Aokiji that used ICE to fight MAGMA for 10 days! It is absolutely a feat that Ace was able to do this since it could have easily turned out differently e.g. Aokiji's attack could have been too big/cold and Ace could have lost that clash.

I do agree that Jozu had better feats vs Aokiji than Ace did. Just don't use that to take away from what Ace did do.

Jozu being trapped by Doffy's strings does not automatically equate: Doffy > Jozu. Yes it's great on Doffy for being able to catch Jozu, but we didn't see him control Jozu or harm Jozu. Now, Jozu's diamond body managed to stop a powerful slash from Mihawk (who apparently is Yonko level) so what makes you think that Doffy's inferior strings would be able to cut Jozu's Diamond body?

Completely agree with this point! Jozu probably could have handled Doffy pretty well if he had been allowed to continue that skirmish.

We have no actual evidence that pre-TS BB with or without Dark DF is YC1. Those claiming he is, are just using BB as a tool in order to hype up Ace's lacking performance. Yes, pre-TS BB was indeed powerful but also clumsy and overconfident (like Ace). But to place him as strong as Katakuri or King, that is a no no. Definitely once BB attained the Gura DF then yes I can see it, but with just Dark DF, I can see Kata or King demolish him.
BB was knocked down and shed blood by a Pre TS Gear 2 punch. I do not see ANY YC3 and above getting knocked down by Pre TS Luffy.

I would argue Marco, Jozu and Vista were above Ace. They were seasoned veterans while Ace was still a rookie among them who thought he could take on anyone. Shit even WB told him to shut up, when Ace wanted to fight Kaido. WB even felt that Ace wasn't ready for BB and this was without knowing of BB's Dark DF.

Pre-skip BB without Dark DF was able to kill Thatch who was one of the stronger commanders (these details came from Novel A) and also able to scar Shanks who has been warning everyone about BB. Once he got the Dark DF BB easily made it into the Warlords (all of whom are now being shown to be YC level fighters even if it is by retcon), defeated a Ace in a fair 1 v 1 (this is the same Ace who prior to a lot of training already tied with Jinbei), and was able to withstand WB quake bubble to the head and keep fighting afterwards. These are feats of a YC1. No character that is not at this level has accomplished what BB has done.