One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Fox666]

But that’s not true, that’s not how heat exchanger works.

Can you cast ice and fire spells to prove it?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Can you cast ice and fire spells to prove it?

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Aurther Clarke

 

[Core D. Roy]

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Aurther Clarke

I'm pretty sure Abraham Lincoln said that.

 

[shailks]

The point is that fire/heat/magma vs ice/cold/snow abilities does not have any default superiority on each other.

Would disagree here. Coldest a thing can get is 0 Kelvin, that’s about -270 degress Celcius. On other hand things can get much hotter than +270 C.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Would disagree here. Coldest a thing can get is 0 Kelvin, that’s about -270 degress Celcius. On other hand things can get much hotter than +270 C.

Sure and Kizaru doesn't actually kick or move at the literal speed of light. Also, even if One Piece was that devoted to science, pretty sure absolute zero isn't just "beaten" by a positive integer degree of temperature.

 

[Fox666]

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Aurther Clarke

Ok

I just think it's pointless to use real life physics as proof of what "sufficiently advanced technology" is stronger

 

[shailks]

Sure and Kizaru doesn't actually kick or move at the literal speed of light. Also, even if One Piece was that devoted to science, pretty sure absolute zero isn't just "beaten" by a positive integer degree of temperature.

The point is that it’s easier to generate more heat than making things cold. Entropy, second law of thermodynamics ensures that.

there is also anecdotal evidence that in mangas fire based abilities trump ice based abilities. Might have to do with how much cool fire/laca looks compared to ice based attacks (pun intended).

 

[Fox666]

The point is that it’s easier to generate more heat than making things cold. Entropy, second law of thermodynamics ensures that.

Wouldn't that assume that different Devil Fruits require equivalent amounts of energy?

The energy necessary to transform a Human body into light like Kizaru would produce enough heat to cook the entire planet

 

[I Am Atomic]

Using real life physics to explain One Piece smh! This discussion is getting nowhere

Real life science to link OP powers are fine, for example Law using Gamma knife or Radio knife which are used in irl.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

The point is that it’s easier to generate more heat than making things cold. Entropy, second law of thermodynamics ensures that.

there is also anecdotal evidence that in mangas fire based abilities trump ice based abilities. Might have to do with how much cool fire/laca looks compared to ice based attacks (pun intended).

Well for me by OP standards we have been shown otherwise. Aokiji is able to freeze a large body of water (further than the naked eye can see) in an instant. The amount of energy he'd have to remove in that instance to freeze all that water is insane.

As for absolute zero, if a character in OP is able to get that cold then real world physics is broken.

 

[XXGenesis]

So the discussion went from fictional OP mechanics. To real world physics….Back to OP mechanics under real world Physics….Lol

All that really matters is that

Akainu defeat Kuzan in what it seems to be a close fight….

For some reason ppl think 1 + 1 = 3. Ace matched Kuzan attack. Assuredly Kuzan was holding back and can over power Ace’s fire DF with his Ice DF, simply because Kuzan is wayyy stronger.

 

[albertwv]

So the discussion went from fictional OP mechanics. To real world physics….Back to OP mechanics under real world Physics….Lol

All that really matters is that

Akainu defeat Kuzan in what it seems to be a close fight….

For some reason ppl think 1 + 1 = 3. Ace matched Kuzan attack. Assuredly Kuzan was holding back and can over power Ace’s fire DF with his Ice DF, simply because Kuzan is wayyy stronger.

IDK if you're being sarcastic in the last part, but Aokiji could defeat Ace, his Ice (with Haki) would overpower Ace's Fire. If Aokiji managed to hold off Akainu's magma then Ace's Fire which in OP terms is significantly lower than the magma.

@Fox666 please don't use real world science and try to apply it to OP, when there is direct evidence that magma > Ice.

Aokiji and Akainu fought for 10 days. Punk Hazard became a wasteland of winter and fire, so that's proof that they both used their Logia DF's.
How did Aokiji manage to stay alive and not get melted for 10 days is beyond my understanding, but Oda portrayed them as near equals.
My guess is that Aokiji used Haki (ACoA and ACoO) to dodge and defend/strike Akainu's magma attacks.

We also saw how quickly Akainu countered Ace.

 

[Fox666]

Sir, I'm mocking the use of real world science to explain magical abilities

 

[BlackTiger]

ard thanks I feel like he is trolling lol

If you think saying Katakuri blitzes Kaido because Snakeman treated Kaido like a bitch while Katakuri danced around Snakeman is trolling then I suggest you reread WCI and chapter 1042 1000 times with your 2 eyes open. Even if Oda outright says Katakuri is faster than Kaido you would still blatantly refuse to admit it.

The moment Kaido dodged Red Hawk, it was obvious that Kaido would dodge any attacks that he can dodge. If he cannot dodge it that means those attacks were too fast or him or Kaido cannot use Future Sight (he can only use it in drunk mode).

I know you want Kaido to be a retard who purposely taking attacks he could dodge because Snakeman treating Kaido like a bitch while the same Snakeman speed wise was dodged and countered by Katakuri pissed you off.

Katakuri blitzes anyone who is related to Kaido in speed like Gear 5 and current Zoro.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 8, 2023, Original Post Date: Feb 8, 2023 ---

Kaido did that in spite of the fact that luffy at that point was at least as strong as katakuri, an honest to god YC1

This is Luffy who got 1 shot by Kaido

Congratulation for Kaido 1 shot YC3.5 Luffy. Kaido needs lucky shot or outlast Katakuri haki with his durability to beat YC1 Katakuri.

(even if probably the weakest of the known ones at the time).

Rayleigh about FS users: Among the mightiest
Ryokugyu about King who low diffed Marco: Bozo, mere subordinate.

Luffy was worth 1.5 b after beating Katakuri
Zoro was worth 1.1 b after beating King who low diffed Marco.

Marco is the weakest YC1. Only someone with FS and Snakeman speed can hit Katakuri to eventually beat him. Otherwise they need lucky shoot or outlast Katakuri haki with their own haki.durability. Marco and King are not those type of guys.

- It's extremely likely that kaido in his base form can one shot katakuri and non defense mode king by bonking them with sheer speed. The idea of katakuri's future sight holding out against kaido who also has the skill is beyond laughable.

The only laughable thing is statement like your who think Snakeman punching bag like Kaidoo can low diff Snakeman dodger like Katakuri. Kaido needs lucky shot to beat Katakuri or outlast Katakuri's haki with his durability.

Big mom can probably match this if she has at least one homey at hand. Kaido did bonk G4 with his primary weapon after all. I would maintain that the big mom that confronted jinbe was far too out of her mind and perhaps already weakened from her hunger to actually show her full power.

Excuse. Big Mom without her hunger pang cannot land a hit on Luffy and Jinbe despite sneak attack.

You are overrating Kaido's speed. He is nothing without his Thunder Bagua. If someone as slow as Big Mom can tag Kaido outside his Thunder Bagua then Katakuri dances around Kaido and blitzes him like a fool he is.

marco>>>>>>>>>pre udon luffy>katakuri

Put Marco and Vista together against Katakuri and they need extreme diff fight to win. Katakuri smokes either of them in 1 on 1.

 

[Fox666]

If you think saying Katakuri blitzes Kaido because Snakeman treated Kaido like a bitch while Katakuri danced around Snakeman is trolling then I suggest you reread WCI and chapter 1042 1000 times with your 2 eyes open. Even if Oda outright says Katakuri is faster than Kaido you would still blatantly refuse to admit it.

The moment Kaido dodged Red Hawk, it was obvious that Kaido would dodge any attacks that he can dodge. If he cannot dodge it that means those attacks were too fast or him or Kaido cannot use Future Sight (he can only use it in drunk mode).

I know you want Kaido to be a retard who purposely taking attacks he could dodge because Snakeman treating Kaido like a bitch while the same Snakeman speed wise was dodged and countered by Katakuri pissed you off.

Katakuri blitzes anyone who is related to Kaido in speed like Gear 5 and current Zoro.

That's assuming Luffy didn't get stronger in Wano to the point he could probably one-shot Katakuri...

I'm having a hard time understand the Akainu vs Katakuri comparison

 

[BlackTiger]

That's assuming Luffy didn't get stronger in Wano to the point he could probably one-shot Katakuri...

Only his ap got stronger. Speed wise he is not. Katakuri blitzes current Gear 5. Gear 5 needs lucky shot or outlast Katakuri haki to beat him.

I'm having a hard time understand the Akainu vs Katakuri comparison

Jinbe tagged Akainu.

Jinbe cannot tag Katakuri.

Katakuri is massively faster than Akainu.

Akainu who is slower than Katakuri toyed with Marco and Vista.

How much badly Katakuri would toy with Marco and Vista if Akainu who is slower than him humiliate Marco and Vista together?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 8, 2023, Original Post Date: Feb 8, 2023 ---

I know you will use powercreep argument again.

Katakuri being massively faster than Akainu shows he is massively faster than Gear 5 as well unless you think gear 5 Luffy will blitz Akainu by the time they fight.

 

[kkck]

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 8, 2023, Original Post Date: Feb 8, 2023 ---

This is Luffy who got 1 shot by Kaido

Congratulation for Kaido 1 shot YC3.5 Luffy. Kaido needs lucky shot or outlast Katakuri haki with his durability to beat YC1 Katakuri.


Rayleigh about FS users: Among the mightiest
Ryokugyu about King who low diffed Marco: Bozo, mere subordinate.

Luffy was worth 1.5 b after beating Katakuri
Zoro was worth 1.1 b after beating King who low diffed Marco.

Marco is the weakest YC1. Only someone with FS and Snakeman speed can hit Katakuri to eventually beat him. Otherwise they need lucky shoot or outlast Katakuri haki with their own haki.durability. Marco and King are not those type of guys.



The only laughable thing is statement like your who think Snakeman punching bag like Kaidoo can low diff Snakeman dodger like Katakuri. Kaido needs lucky shot to beat Katakuri or outlast Katakuri's haki with his durability.


Excuse. Big Mom without her hunger pang cannot land a hit on Luffy and Jinbe despite sneak attack.

You are overrating Kaido's speed. He is nothing without his Thunder Bagua. If someone as slow as Big Mom can tag Kaido outside his Thunder Bagua then Katakuri dances around Kaido and blitzes him like a fool he is.

Put Marco and Vista together against Katakuri and they need extreme diff fight to win. Katakuri smokes either of them in 1 on 1.

You vastly overestimate katakuri. katakuri is most likely the weakest of the YC1 we know though probably around the ballpark of king. Marco is someone whom the gorosei saw as having yonko potential and the implication is pretty strong that shank's crew is way ahead of the curve when it comes to executives.

But... luffy went through a substantial powerup in between his fight with cracker and the time his fight with katakuri ended. It's beyond absurd to suggest otherwise. By the time the fight with katakuri ended even base luffy was using foresight to more or less hold his ground against katakuri. Luffy's BS haki upgrade simply paid off that much. Kaido one shot the luffy that defeated katakuri fair and square, that's a fact.

King low diff marco? That's so absurdly incorrect and inane that I can only assume you are willfully telling an absurd lie for reasons I can't care about.

Marco and king don't need specific shenanigans to deal with katakuri's foresight. Marco is simply strong enough to do so and king has an honest to god offensive mode in which his speed shots up. There's no reason to think katakuri is miles ahead of other YC1, least of all marco.

Kaido is nothing without his thunder bagua? What does that even mean? kaido is simply fast, thunder bagua isn't some magic that makes him faster.

Your post is to absurd to even warrant an answer.

 

[BlackTiger]

You vastly overestimate katakuri. katakuri is most likely the weakest of the YC1 we know though probably around the ballpark of king. Marco is someone whom the gorosei saw as having yonko potential and the implication is pretty strong that shank's crew is way ahead of the curve when it comes to executives.

You didn't address any of my point.

Admiral tier Rayleigh saw FS users as among the mightiest.
Admiral Ryokugyu told King is a bozo and King low diffed Marco.

Luffy was worth 1.5 b after beating Katakuri.
Zoro was worth 1.1 b after beating King who low diffed Marco.

Portrayal is clear.

It's Oda who overestimated Katakuri.

Gorosei mentioned Marco because Marco was in yonko crews. Gorosei was talking about crews strength. Remove Marco from WBP and Gorosei would say remnant of WBP instead.

But... luffy went through a substantial powerup in between his fight with cracker and the time his fight with katakuri ended. It's beyond absurd to suggest otherwise. By the time the fight with katakuri ended even base luffy was using foresight to more or less hold his ground against katakuri. Luffy's BS haki upgrade simply paid off that much. Kaido one shot the luffy that defeated katakuri fair and square, that's a fact.

The fact is Kaido 1 shot Boundman non FS Luffy who cannot beat Cracker. Only his CoO haki got huge upgrade not his CoA. Act 1 Luffy with Boundman and no FS cannot beat CRacker. Kaido beat YC3.5. Kaido needs a long way to 1 shot YC1 Katakuri. Act 1 Luffy hit Kaido like a madman which required no CoO so his CoO boost post WCI was useless. Act 1 Luffy who fought Kaido was the same Luffy who cannot beat Cracker.

Base Luffy with Future Sight got smoked by Katakuri. He didn't hold his own. Katakuri even told base Luffy with Future Sight to get up after he beat him up so bad.

This is Luffy who beat Katakuri

This is Luffy act 1 who lost to Kaido

King low diff marco? That's so absurdly incorrect and inane that I can only assume you are willfully telling an absurd lie for reasons I can't care about.

Queen was fighting Sanji. Only King and Marco were left. Marco lost without being able to damage King. Truly the weakest YC1.

Marco and king don't need specific shenanigans to deal with katakuri's foresight. Marco is simply strong enough to do so and king has an honest to god offensive mode in which his speed shots up. There's no reason to think katakuri is miles ahead of other YC1, least of all marco.

You are ignoring my Akainu and Katakuri comparison.

Jinbe tagged Akainu but cannot tag Katakuri. Katakuri is massively faster than Akainu.

Akainu who is slower than katakuri dodged Marco and Vista attack together. Katakuri easily toys with Marco and Vista. Together they cannot hit Katakuri while Katakuri has no problem punching Marco until his regen runs out. Only King is a bigger threat because he is invincible in flame mode. Katakuri is much faster than speed mode King considering Zoro who was much slower than Snakeman WCI Luffy tagged and countered him.

Katakuri vs King ends up in stalemate. Favoring toward Katakuri. Both of them smoke Marco though.

There's a reason Katakuri is miles ahead of other YC1 like Marco and King. Kaido was punching bag to SNakeman while Katakuri dodged and danced around Snakeman. Kaido needs lucky shot to beat Katakuri.

Ryokugyu a inferior fighter compared to Kaido smoked King, Queen and other Beast Pirates.

King low diffed Marco.

Kaido>Katakuri
Ryokugyu>>>>>King+Queen+other BP fodders>>>>>King>>Marco.

It's fact.

Kaido is nothing without his thunder bagua? What does that even mean? kaido is simply fast, thunder bagua isn't some magic that makes him faster

Yet Big Mom who cannot hit Luffy and Jinbe at tea party despite using sneak attack tagged Kaido. Thunder Bagua is not a problem for Katakuri if slower base luffy dodged Thunder Bagua. Katakuri blitzed Kaido. Chapter 1000 shows how Luffy easily dodged Kaido no named attack while chapter 1001 Luffy struggled to dodge Thunder Bagua. Thunder Bagua is Kaido's fastest attack. Kaido without his fastest attack is a snail who got tagged by Big Mom who cannot hit Luffy and Jinbe in Tea Party despite sneak attack.

Your post is to absurd to even warrant an answer.

Funny coming from you considering you didn't address Katakuri and Akainu comparison to show Marco and Vista combined cannot hit Katakuri if slower Akainu dodged Marco and Vista combined.

You also didn't address Luffy 1.5 b after beating Katakuri and Zoro 1.1 b after beating King who low diffed Marco.

Didn't address how Rayleigh was in awe of FS users while Ryokugyu called King who low diffed Marco a bozo.

 

[albertwv]

Thought we were done with Kaido, Katakuri and Luffy speed argument.
I don't even want to continue it after seeing this:
"Luffy 1.5 b after beating Katakuri and Zoro 1.1 b after beating King who low diffed Marco."

 

[BlackTiger]

Everything is facts. A Snakeman punching bag should not be compared to Snakeman dodger in speed.

Zoro fought the wrong YC1. He fought a weaker YC1 thus the reason for his abysmal 1.1 b bounty which made Marco even more pathetic considering he lost to that YC1.