One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

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[DeadlyBeast]

Interesting matchup.

I think it depend of the type of fighter.
Against pure physical fighter, Momo will have the edge with his Dragon transformation and the terrible Boro breath.
He may be able to take a win face of a fighter like Jack.

But against cunning fighter like Doffy or Cracker, he just don't have the experience, as a child he would be overhelm by their strategy.

These are pretty much my thoughts too. Its just as you think about it even for the cunning opponents a lot of them just don't have any good options that would damage the dragon form. Like what could Cracker do to get past the thick scales? At the end of the day Cracker relied on brute force attacks.

Doffy with his ability being more flexible I can see doing something to win. In the same vein I think there are weaker Yonko Exec level fighters that I think Momo would struggle against like Sai, Killer, or Dressrosa Law etc.

Definitely interesting to think how Momo would fair against all these guys with novice fighting skills/experience. I'm sure by the time we see him again in battle he will be very formidable.

 

[HereNThere]

With that all in mind in a 1v1 do people think Momo would lose against Yonko Executives like P1/Ulti, Who's Who, Daifuku, Oven, etc? What about YC3 level fighters like Doffy, Cracker, Jack, etc?

I think Momo could high diff defeat most Yonko Executive level fighters in a 1v1. I think he would also still be a mid to high diff loss to YC3 fighters, which is still pretty impressive. What are other people's thoughts? Where do others place post Wano Momo's power level?

Not going to lie, I'm not really on the Momo hype train yet. I get he has the potential, but I just don't see him reaching the highs of his father. He has a good foundation, no doubt, but I don't think he'll have many opportunities to build upon himself as his father did.

That being said, his Dragon abilities could potentially carry him pretty far. If he manages to let off a good Bolo Breath and it lands, yeah, I'd say he'd be able to handle himself against most executives. Maybe he could even squeak out a win against Page One or Daifuku as they haven't really shown anything impressive to make me think they could go against the Dragon form. The other executives have either the mobility or the means to potentially bypass Momo's dragon toughness. It's highly likely that Kaido augmented his own defenses with haki on top of his own innate oni toughness, and since Momo hasn't demonstrated armament, I have to assume he'd be more vulnerable to attacks than Kaido was.

So, with that in mind, moving on to the higher stage, I don't think Momo would do well against Doffy, Cracker, or Jack. They have too much going on for them that I don't see Momo lasting long without armament.

 

[kkck]

Momo is IMO too much of a mixed bag. His physical strength surprised even luffy and zoro and his bolo breath seems to actually match kaido... But ultimately he lacks usable haki and he lacks even the basic skill any fighter has. I could see his physical strength being fairly high in the pecking order, say, YC1-3 but without actual combat skill and haki his potentially immense physical durability won't take him that far. Even if he has that much physical strength and his bolo breath is about as good as kaido's I don't see him winning fights against even bellamy types. He doesn't have any haki to defend himself with and even people well inferior to yonko commanders will probably just see momo's attacks coming with average observation haki. I suppose he could take out bellamy types with one hit IF he hits them with bolo breath but that's a weirdly unfavorable toin coss for momo. I do feel more comfortable saying momo could easily defeat part 1 strawhats/cp9 though. But that's not saying much nowadays.

 

[Ricko]

Momo is IMO too much of a mixed bag. His physical strength surprised even luffy and zoro and his bolo breath seems to actually match kaido... But ultimately he lacks usable haki and he lacks even the basic skill any fighter has. I could see his physical strength being fairly high in the pecking order, say, YC1-3 but without actual combat skill and haki his potentially immense physical durability won't take him that far. Even if he has that much physical strength and his bolo breath is about as good as kaido's I don't see him winning fights against even bellamy types. He doesn't have any haki to defend himself with and even people well inferior to yonko commanders will probably just see momo's attacks coming with average observation haki. I suppose he could take out bellamy types with one hit IF he hits them with bolo breath but that's a weirdly unfavorable toin coss for momo. I do feel more comfortable saying momo could easily defeat part 1 strawhats/cp9 though. But that's not saying much nowadays.

Haki don't do all in a battle. Remember Bobby Funk could tank Boo's attack infused with haki just by natural resistance.
So it really depend of the Haki strenght to bypass a dragon scale. I'm not sure all executive have this kind of power.
Momo toughness must be greater than General Franky resilience.

 

[kkck]

Haki don't do all in a battle. Remember Bobby Funk could tank Boo's attack infused with haki just by natural resistance.
So it really depend of the Haki strenght to bypass a dragon scale. I'm not sure all executive have this kind of power.
Momo toughness must be greater than General Franky resilience.

The implication so far is that kaido's durability was ultimately a result of his conqueror's haki, a similar situation to big mom's who also had similar durability and not one dragon scale. I am not sure of where general franky would fall here but given how haki has been portrayed to work so far it's hard to imagine new world fighters with something to their name being unable to harm momo as we last saw him.

 

[grey matter]

Yes let's definitely move on from this and on to a new debate, where does post Wano Momo land power level wise?

When I think about it honestly Momo had the biggest power creep in a single arc of any character we've seen in OP. When Wano arc started Momo was better than the average child but any fodder adult could take him out in 1v1.

Now post Wano Momo has the following:

• An adult body that is super durable/strong and likely on its own comparable to YC level fighters body
  • Oda parallels adult Momo to Oden and lets not forget Oden physically endured being dragged by a ship, boiling oil etc. So Momo's body likely can really dish it and take it, Momo just lacks any fighting experience.
• Has innate haki abilities that gives him lots of room for short term growth
  • Momo seems to already use COO on his own and also seems to have VOAT. On top of that he has never been phased by CoC even when the likes of Kaido/Luffy clashed right in front of him. This implies Momo has a lot of will power despite behaving cowardly
• Momo is psychologically stronger now since he has faced the likes of Kaido as a kid. This gives him a sort of Coby like change where going forward we know even if they act childish/cowardly at any point things are serious they will come through. This kind of showed in how Momo handled Aramaki and Admiral with guts & determination.
• Has some swordsmen skills as we've seen him train. Now that he has a much stronger body he likely could take out most swordsmen in OP with a little training of his new physical strength.
• And last but most import of all, Momo has one of the most OP DF possible. Momo using the Dragon fruits powers can essentially:
  • Fly around at fast speeds
  • Lift things up to the size of Onigashima if needed using flame clouds. Since we've seen him do that once no reason to doubt he could do it again.
  • Has the ability to use Bolo Breath which is an insane attack that could wipe out citieis/armies in minutes. If he gets a direct hit on an opponent, only really strong fighters would get back up from this.
  • Has physical durability that is so strong that it would like take an advanced CoA or CoC user to do any serious damage. Think about how difficult it was to hurt Kaido because of the dragon scales. And since Momo is starting with a base physical body that is super strong his dragon form durability probably benefits.
  • Can likely learn the other base dragon abilities (wind & lighting attack) quickly with Yamato's coaching too, making him even more formidable

With that all in mind in a 1v1 do people think Momo would lose against Yonko Executives like P1/Ulti, Who's Who, Daifuku, Oven, etc? What about YC3 level fighters like Doffy, Cracker, Jack, etc?

I think Momo could high diff defeat most Yonko Executive level fighters in a 1v1. I think he would also still be a mid to high diff loss to YC3 fighters, which is still pretty impressive. What are other people's thoughts? Where do others place post Wano Momo's power level?

Agree with pretty much everything here.

He would win against most Yonko executives except Izo (though he's technically "commander" too)
But lose to all commanders.

I am unsure of whether advanced armament is a necessity to damage Momo. Kaido's durability was a result of dragon scales + passive haki coating.

But I can understand if you think otherwise, since Luffy learned advanced armament specifically to bypass Kaido's dragon scales........though it's unclear whether Luffy knew back then that Kaido was also coating himself with conqueror's haki.
If advanced armament is a necessity, like against Kaido, there are very few amongst even commanders who can actually defeat him.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

These are some pretty good thoughts. So seems there is general consensus that current Momo could take out some yonko executives but not all. For YC seems people are pretty varied on opinions. Open question at this point is does Dragon form by default provide such high durability that it requires advanced haki or can someone just use regular brute force? That will be a big make it or break it question for Momo. From all the constant references made about dragon scales and how they have to work around it e.g. Luffy learning aCoA, Law using internal attacks, Killer using internal sonic attacks etc I was under the impression that it would take YC level fighters minimum to ever harm Momo but I could be wrong. Guess we'll have to wait and see how Oda does this.

 

[Fox666]

I don't think Momonosuke stands any chance against a Yonko commander. He got a powerful DF, but he lacks any training whatsoever.

 

[kkck]

IIRC kaido was regarded as invulnerable in his human form too. His dragon physiology definitely made him more durable of course but ultimately this was framed as a haki problem that could be solved with haki (luffy, zoro) or abilities that bypass defense (law, killer) or just hitting him really really hard (kidd, though he did this against big mom with his awakening though presumably it would also be enough to hurt kaido as well). I feel like this discussion ignores how wide the power scaling here is. Even people who are inferior to yonko executives have incredibly high destructive capacity. Take doflamingo's executives. Pika, trebol, vergo, diamante... none of them would actually make the cut for yonko executive and if they did they would be on the very low end of strength. Doflamingo doesn't make the cut for YC3 and even if he did he'd be fairly lackluster. Fishman island luffy with gear 2 and 3 could have easily destroyed an structure as gigantic as noah and yet he didn't stand a chance against doflamingo 2 arcs later.

Meanwhile anyone of note will be at least an OK haki user and proficient martial artist. Anyone with any amount of observation haki will be able to see momo's only viable card, his bolo breath, coming a mile away. Without observation haki momo is eternality stuck firing at where his enemies are, not where they are going to be.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I would put Momo right around Pica level. Nice and flashy and decent strength but without substance

 

[kkck]

It seems unfair to frame pica as having no substance. The guy had a powerful fruit which he could use very well and was at least skilled enough at using haki to coat his entire body with it. IMO he falls short of actual yonko executives but it's not a massive difference with the low end ones.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

IIRC kaido was regarded as invulnerable in his human form too. His dragon physiology definitely made him more durable of course but ultimately this was framed as a haki problem that could be solved with haki (luffy, zoro) or abilities that bypass defense (law, killer) or just hitting him really really hard (kidd, though he did this against big mom with his awakening though presumably it would also be enough to hurt kaido as well). I feel like this discussion ignores how wide the power scaling here is. Even people who are inferior to yonko executives have incredibly high destructive capacity. Take doflamingo's executives. Pika, trebol, vergo, diamante... none of them would actually make the cut for yonko executive and if they did they would be on the very low end of strength. Doflamingo doesn't make the cut for YC3 and even if he did he'd be fairly lackluster. Fishman island luffy with gear 2 and 3 could have easily destroyed an structure as gigantic as noah and yet he didn't stand a chance against doflamingo 2 arcs later.

Meanwhile anyone of note will be at least an OK haki user and proficient martial artist. Anyone with any amount of observation haki will be able to see momo's only viable card, his bolo breath, coming a mile away. Without observation haki momo is eternality stuck firing at where his enemies are, not where they are going to be.

Would like to point out that Momo does actually have COO haki which he has used on several occasions already. In fact it seems he has quite the range since he was able to sense Luffy on the rooftop and relayed details of the battle against Kaido/BM to Shinobu & Yamato. Considering Yamato for sure is a COO user as well this implies Momo may have better inherent COO ability then them.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2023, Original Post Date: Feb 14, 2023 ---

It seems unfair to frame pica as having no substance. The guy had a powerful fruit which he could use very well and was at least skilled enough at using haki to coat his entire body with it. IMO he falls short of actual yonko executives but it's not a massive difference with the low end ones.

Pica lost in a single attack from Zoro. His ability was powerful and yes he is able to use haki but it doesn't seem he really has that much durability when it actually counts. Think of how many times other characters have continued fighting with large cuts on their body and compare that to Pica who KOed instantly.

 

[kkck]

Would like to point out that Momo does actually have COO haki which he has used on several occasions already. In fact it seems he has quite the range since he was able to sense Luffy on the rooftop and relayed details of the battle against Kaido/BM to Shinobu & Yamato. Considering Yamato for sure is a COO user as well this implies Momo may have better inherent COO ability then them.

I am not sure if that is normal CoO or some voice of all things type deal whose status is still unknown. In any case, momo at least cannot use CoO at will as of the last time we saw him.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2023, Original Post Date: Feb 14, 2023 ---

Pica lost in a single attack from Zoro. His ability was powerful and yes he is able to use haki but it doesn't seem he really has that much durability when it actually counts. Think of how many times other characters have continued fighting with large cuts on their body and compare that to Pica who KOed instantly.

Picca was not outright foderized by zoro. Early in the battle pica even held his own against zoro using a comically large katana. It's true zoro is a fair bit more powerful than pica but the battle still required zoro to corner pica using one of his stronger techniques. And the issue here is not pica vs the world but rather momo as of the last time we saw him. It's insane to think momo could do much of anything to pica, an actual living mountain who is competent at at least the basic haki types.

 

[Pirate Queen]

It seems unfair to frame pica as having no substance. The guy had a powerful fruit which he could use very well and was at least skilled enough at using haki to coat his entire body with it. IMO he falls short of actual yonko executives but it's not a massive difference with the low end ones.

In the grand scheme of this Pica was a distractor. He didn't DO anything beside annoy Zoro and move the palace, thus prolonging the arc.

And I did sat flashy with decent strength. I'm not saying he's garbage, but as a fight he lacks the substance all YC have. The fighting presence

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I am not sure if that is normal CoO or some voice of all things type deal whose status is still unknown. In any case, momo at least cannot use CoO at will as of the last time we saw him.

Momo can use both COO and VOAT. He used VOAT to communicate with Zunesha multiple times and was able to talk to Luffy while he was drowning. The COO thing is different in that he isn't communicating but literally sensing in the same way as other COO users, just seems he has a lot of range. The fact he can use COO was also confirmed in a vivre card. I do agree with you that as of now aside from his innate COO ability being high it hasn't been clarified how well Momo can use it.

Picca was not outright foderized by zoro. Early in the battle pica even held his own against zoro using a comically large katana. It's true zoro is a fair bit more powerful than pica but the battle still required zoro to corner pica using one of his stronger techniques. And the issue here is not pica vs the world but rather momo as of the last time we saw him. It's insane to think momo could do much of anything to pica, an actual living mountain who is competent at at least the basic haki types.

I think the comparison to Pica here is to say due to a hax DF power both Pica and Momo can cause large amounts of damage at scale (due to sheer size). Additionally, I'd take it a bit further and say Pica being hard to hit due to his DF power is akin to Momo being hard to damage due to his DF power.

As far as Pica himself, I think he is a capable combatant. I just think his durability is lack luster similar to Cracker. Both he and Cracker are difficult to land a hit on but it seems once a strong opponent lands a single solid hit they are KOed. So for me durability is a weak point for him.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I think the comparison to Pica here is to say due to a hax DF power both Pica and Momo can cause large amounts of damage at scale (due to sheer size). Additionally, I'd take it a bit further and say Pica being hard to hit due to his DF power is akin to Momo being hard to damage due to his DF power.

As far as Pica himself, I think he is a capable combatant. I just think his durability is lack luster similar to Cracker. Both he and Cracker are difficult to land a hit on but it seems once a strong opponent lands a single solid hit they are KOed. So for me durability is a weak point for him.

Yeah I like this. This is also what I'm trying to get across.

 

[kkck]

Momo can use both COO and VOAT. He used VOAT to communicate with Zunesha multiple times and was able to talk to Luffy while he was drowning. The COO thing is different in that he isn't communicating but literally sensing in the same way as other COO users, just seems he has a lot of range. The fact he can use COO was also confirmed in a vivre card. I do agree with you that as of now aside from his innate COO ability being high it hasn't been clarified how well Momo can use it.


I think the comparison to Pica here is to say due to a hax DF power both Pica and Momo can cause large amounts of damage at scale (due to sheer size). Additionally, I'd take it a bit further and say Pica being hard to hit due to his DF power is akin to Momo being hard to damage due to his DF power.

As far as Pica himself, I think he is a capable combatant. I just think his durability is lack luster similar to Cracker. Both he and Cracker are difficult to land a hit on but it seems once a strong opponent lands a single solid hit they are KOed. So for me durability is a weak point for him.

As far as I can tell there's no reason to think momo can use any type of haki at will. And even if he could there's still the issue of skill, whic he definitely does not have at least in comparison to any experienced combatant.

But... momo isn't hard to damage. He definitely does not have anything close to kaido's durability which was in large part due to his haki. He is still a dragon so there's that but it's more reason to assume that a punch from even normal pica will do major damage, let alone the mountain sized one.

I don't see any reason to frame pica as having the durability of cracker. The guy was a walking mass for muscle, the most reasonable assumption is that his durability was fairly high for his tierr. It's a different situation from cracker whose durability was framed as low for his tier. And even with his low durability the attack that defeated him through him across the island through his very durable soldiers with the full force of a gear 4 attack and had the capacity to hold his own in close quarter combat against gear 4 and even injure G4 luffy with normal attacks, something which doflamingo needed named attacks for.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

As far as I can tell there's no reason to think momo can use any type of haki at will. And even if he could there's still the issue of skill, whic he definitely does not have at least in comparison to any experienced combatant.

But... momo isn't hard to damage. He definitely does not have anything close to kaido's durability which was in large part due to his haki. He is still a dragon so there's that but it's more reason to assume that a punch from even normal pica will do major damage, let alone the mountain sized one.

I agree there is nothing to indicate Momo is skilled at using COO. I expect he will have improved by a lot in the future but since I'm focused on current Momo I'll concede this point. Aside from potential to "bloom" mid battle I don't expect any skilled usage of COO by him.

As for damaging him, post him turning into adult Momo he has not been damaged once. Even when he confronted Aramaki in dragon form he left completely uninjured by the trees due to his scales. Heck Aramaki even said he'd kill Momo by going through his mouth and piercing him through from the inside which to me indicates trying to get through the scales is not an easy task. We haven't gotten an explicit level of defense that the dragon form offers but its definitely pretty up there as far as DF powers go.

I don't see any reason to frame pica as having the durability of cracker. The guy was a walking mass for muscle, the most reasonable assumption is that his durability was fairly high for his tierr. It's a different situation from cracker whose durability was framed as low for his tier. And even with his low durability the attack that defeated him through him across the island through his very durable soldiers with the full force of a gear 4 attack and had the capacity to hold his own in close quarter combat against gear 4 and even injure G4 luffy with normal attacks, something which doflamingo needed named attacks for.

Pica being muscular means nothing in OP considering you have fodder who look just as physically built and get knocked out by unnamed attacks. To me Pica at the end of the day had an annoying ability and some basic new world level combat skill. The man got cocky with his haki and lost in a single cutting attack which is pretty low on durability. All I can go by is what was portrayed which is he is that Pica is a one kit KO.

Cracker is the same thing. He was difficult due to his ability but had low durability. Doffy who you said "doesn't make the cut for YC3" was able to take G4 punch to the face that sent him flying across the island of Dressrosa, hitting multiple buildings etc along the way. This was all after he had suffered Gamma Knife and several other attacks from Law/Luffy. Despite this he ended up taking even more hits from G4 attacks. This is the level of durability I'd expect from a YC3 but what we got from Cracker was no where close to this.

 

[kkck]

I agree there is nothing to indicate Momo is skilled at using COO. I expect he will have improved by a lot in the future but since I'm focused on current Momo I'll concede this point. Aside from potential to "bloom" mid battle I don't expect any skilled usage of COO by him.

As for damaging him, post him turning into adult Momo he has not been damaged once. Even when he confronted Aramaki in dragon form he left completely uninjured by the trees due to his scales. Heck Aramaki even said he'd kill Momo by going through his mouth and piercing him through from the inside which to me indicates trying to get through the scales is not an easy task. We haven't gotten an explicit level of defense that the dragon form offers but its definitely pretty up there as far as DF powers go.


Pica being muscular means nothing in OP considering you have fodder who look just as physically built and get knocked out by unnamed attacks. To me Pica at the end of the day had an annoying ability and some basic new world level combat skill. The man got cocky with his haki and lost in a single cutting attack which is pretty low on durability. All I can go by is what was portrayed which is he is that Pica is a one kit KO.

Cracker is the same thing. He was difficult due to his ability but had low durability. Doffy who you said "doesn't make the cut for YC3" was able to take G4 punch to the face that sent him flying across the island of Dressrosa, hitting multiple buildings etc along the way. This was all after he had suffered Gamma Knife and several other attacks from Law/Luffy. Despite this he ended up taking even more hits from G4 attacks. This is the level of durability I'd expect from a YC3 but what we got from Cracker was no where close to this.

Hm? When did aramaki say or implied he couldn't get past momo's scales? IIRC he easily trapped him and simply never got around to actually hurting him.

Zoro landed one of his stronger attacks on pica. It's not particularly unreasonable for his enemies to fall to that. Realistically speaking zoro landed about 2 attack on king, that doesn't mean king had low durability. The ones that hit king in defense mode couldn't do any damage after all. At least not a meaningful amount anyways.

That's the wrong way to compare cracker and doflamingo. Doflamingo couldn't actually keep up with G4's speed and his conventional attacks pretty much bounced off it. Once luffy activated G4 doflamingo switched his strategy and kept the fight at mid range or longer. Cracker in turn could perfectly keep up with G4's speed an easily counterattack and deal damage with conventional attacks.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Hm? When did aramaki say or implied he couldn't get past momo's scales? IIRC he easily trapped him and simply never got around to actually hurting him.

I personally think its implied but not stated in that fight the scales are an issue. Definitely room for interpretation so you may disagree but here's my rationale:

• Aramki used his vine/wood attack to either capture (wrap around folk) or pierce folk (presumably to drain them). You can see the difference between these two types of attacks since the latter usually has him send the vines in a stabbing fashion. Example here when he got Raizo. You'll notice he appears to coat the tip of his vine in CoA when he does this.
• Later once he captured Momo it appears he tried to neutralize him by doing the vine thing to the face. The attack from Aramki is off screened but you do see something hit Momo in the face here that was either a jab/stab from the vine or a punch.
• Lastly post Momo using Bolo breath Aramki wanted to finish him off. In this case as you can see here it was clear Aramki planned to stab Momo with the vine as you can see he has the CoA on the tip similar to how he got Raizo. However, Aramki also made the explicit statement that he planned to skewer Momo from mouth to tail.

My read on all this is that Aramki tried piercing Momo's head with his vine but failed to do any serious damage. As a result, in the second attempt Aramki would rather try going through the mouth, a clear weak point around the scales, instead of what he'd been doing with everyone else which was to just stab them on their torso and just pierce through the skin. The implication was the scales are harder to get through.

On a separate note this is how Momo looked in his first appearance after that skirmish with Aramaki. Despite getting hit by an Admiral and being slammed to the ground he left that interaction completely uninjured. On the other hand a Scabbard Raizo, and Scabbard Adjacent Shinobu, King, Queen etc all fell easily to Aramki pierce/drain technique. Considering how much a novice Momo is I think all of this durability has to be credited to his genes/Dragon form.

Zoro landed one of his stronger attacks on pica. It's not particularly unreasonable for his enemies to fall to that. Realistically speaking zoro landed about 2 attack on king, that doesn't mean king had low durability. The ones that hit king in defense mode couldn't do any damage after all. At least not a meaningful amount anyways.

This is a fair point. Swordsmen do tend to only need to land a few solid hits to win. Most of the fight they are usually getting blocked. I can concede that Pica losing in a single landing attack may not indicate anything about his durability. I just didn't give him the benefit of the doubt since that fight was his only showing.

That's the wrong way to compare cracker and doflamingo. Doflamingo couldn't actually keep up with G4's speed and his conventional attacks pretty much bounced off it. Once luffy activated G4 doflamingo switched his strategy and kept the fight at mid range or longer. Cracker in turn could perfectly keep up with G4's speed an easily counterattack and deal damage with conventional attacks.

I disagree here. My comparison wasn't about who is stronger between Cracker & Doffy. My point was that Doffy a presumably weaker opponent than Cracker was able to keep getting back up despite being hit by multiple G4 attacks (on top of the injuries he already had). Cracker overall was definitely a harder opponent and faired a lot better against G4 than Doffy. However, he was unable to get back up and fight after the single G4 attack landed which is what I'm counting against him on durability.