One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

So far how would we rate the Seraphims? I don't think they are Yonko level, no way.
I would place them as YC1 so far with potential to go higher, but for right now only YC1.
I don't think Kaido would have difficulty knocking them down, not in one shot like he did Luffy in Kuri, but to a degree.

Im beginning to think that there are only 4 Seraphims made... S-Snake, S-Shark, S-Hawk, and S-Bear. It's weird how we haven't seen the rest of the Seraphim Warlords. Do you think the WG/Vegapunk cloned Moria, Law, Buggy, Doflamingo, Weevil, and Crocodile? When did they grab their blood, since Jimbei has a clone, it must have been over 2 years ago, so possibly we could see S-Crocodile and S-Moria. I doubt the WG would want to clone Buggy or Law lol.


Also, finally we get some confirmation that the Gorosei are NOT Yonko level. I always laughed at that idea. IMO, I don't believe Im is Yonko level either.

 

[LadyVados]

I presume any Commander-level character can do something like that.

If you want to scale Katakuri or Jack...

Luffy with Gear 4 split the ground in Dressrosa, and Katakuri tanked a few attacks like that.

Despite his Big Father form, Capone called Nekomamushi a "monster", who fought evenly with Jack.


Chinjao is talking about Zoro, not Pica.

I'm sure Zoro could give Chinjao a good fight.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2023, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2023 ---

Except Zoro did not damage King in defense mode.

It wasn't clear until now if Zoro final attack defeated King in defense mode or not. But recently chapters have Zoro telling Luffy that they can only hurt the Seraphim in attack mode, despite both having ACoC, which indicates he never hurt King in defense mode.


You are comparing Zoro's Haki based on his Enma feats.

Splitting the ground isn’t even close to cleaving Pica. And does Kata or Jack scale to KKG ? Debatable.

He’s talking about Zoro cleaving Pica.

 

[Fox666]

So far how would we rate the Seraphims? I don't think they are Yonko level, no way.
I would place them as YC1 so far with potential to go higher, but for right now only YC1.
I don't think Kaido would have difficulty knocking them down, not in one shot like he did Luffy in Kuri, but to a degree.

The Seraphim seem to be having a hard time fighting Zoro and Sanji, so I don't think they are YC1.

Im beginning to think that there are only 4 Seraphims made... S-Snake, S-Shark, S-Hawk, and S-Bear. It's weird how we haven't seen the rest of the Seraphim Warlords. Do you think the WG/Vegapunk cloned Moria, Law, Buggy, Doflamingo, Weevil, and Crocodile? When did they grab their blood, since Jimbei has a clone, it must have been over 2 years ago, so possibly we could see S-Crocodile and S-Moria. I doubt the WG would want to clone Buggy or Law lol.

The numbers on the doors holding the Seraphim confirm there's at least 7 of them

Assuming they age at the same rate as Germa soldiers (1 years = 5 years), there may not be enough time for a Seraphim of the Shichibukai who joined during the time-skip to mature.

 

[kkck]

Nah, it's unlikely the seraphines are actually on par with yonko top 3 fighters. The main problem with them is their lunarian defense which simply doesn't shut down but otherwise they haven't actually held their own against luffy, lucci, zoro, kaku or sanji. So I think it's fair to say their fighting level is not THAT high. That said, the pacifista do seem to be equipped with weapons that sort of.... break power levels. Lasers seem to be deadly to anyone, we don't have a single instance of someone not taking damage from one. S-snake of course has her fruit which can decimate anyone with a libido.

something I've been wondering during the past few chapters is if luffy and zoro have even bothered using their full power at this point. Did luffy use cladding and internal damage CoA against lucci and the seraphines? Is zoro using his maximum haki output? It seems weird that luffy would hold something back though zoro at least has reason to be more conservative.

 

[albertwv]

Oda has been playing dumb this whole arc. It is stupid how he made Luffy turn Gear 5 and Lucci Awakened form clash in chapter 1069, just so he could mirror their original clash in Enies Lobby from decades ago.

Gear 5 Luffy vs Awakened Lucci chapter 1069

vs

Base Luffy vs Base Lucci chapter 409

Obviously the original one is 100x better. I believe Oda only made Luffy turn into Gear 5 at that time, to copy the original clash but with their new forms. Because once Luffy "defeats" Lucci and goes to the lab, he doesn't bother using Gear 5 again, like right now against the Seraphims. Luffy doesn't even take down Lucci properly, as we see Lucci getting up a chapter later. In reality, I don't think Luffy needed Gear 5 to take down Lucci, maybe Gear 2.
If Oda was being serious about the power levels, he would have made Luffy gone Gear 5 already or used ACoC to take down the Seraphims, but like people have mentioned, Oda is only wasting time until Kizaru shows up.

Im giving the Seraphims the benefit of the doubt and placing them as YC1. Due to the WG abandoning the Warlords and placing their bets on the Seraphims to be able to take down the Yonko. So far we have only seen 4 and I think that is it. There are no more.
People are wondering why not make all Seraphims into Mihawk clones. Lol. What makes you think S-Hawk is any stronger than the rest of the Seraphims? Also, it's obviously more better to have different types of fighters than just one type.

 

[Nie Li]

Oda has been playing dumb this whole arc. It is stupid how he made Luffy turn Gear 5 and Lucci Awakened form clash in chapter 1069, just so he could mirror their original clash in Enies Lobby from decades ago.

Gear 5 Luffy vs Awakened Lucci chapter 1069

vs

Base Luffy vs Base Lucci chapter 409

Obviously the original one is 100x better. I believe Oda only made Luffy turn into Gear 5 at that time, to copy the original clash but with their new forms. Because once Luffy "defeats" Lucci and goes to the lab, he doesn't bother using Gear 5 again, like right now against the Seraphims. Luffy doesn't even take down Lucci properly, as we see Lucci getting up a chapter later. In reality, I don't think Luffy needed Gear 5 to take down Lucci, maybe Gear 2.
If Oda was being serious about the power levels, he would have made Luffy gone Gear 5 already or used ACoC to take down the Seraphims, but like people have mentioned, Oda is only wasting time until Kizaru shows up.

Im giving the Seraphims the benefit of the doubt and placing them as YC1. Due to the WG abandoning the Warlords and placing their bets on the Seraphims to be able to take down the Yonko. So far we have only seen 4 and I think that is it. There are no more.
People are wondering why not make all Seraphims into Mihawk clones. Lol. What makes you think S-Hawk is any stronger than the rest of the Seraphims? Also, it's obviously more better to have different types of fighters than just one type.

There are (at least) 7 Seraphim for sure. I'm too lazy right now but we saw the numbered doors in some panel.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 21, 2023, Original Post Date: Mar 21, 2023 ---

The "S-Hawk being stronger than the rest" was an assumption likely based on the fact that Mihawk is on an entirely different level than the rest of the Shichibukai, but it's clear by now his clone isn't at the original's level yet. Right now the strongest Seraphim appears to be S-Snake, who can make full use of the original's hax.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Does anybody else think that CoC has more than one advanced level similar to CoA. I think Luffy will learn from Shanks that the final level of CoC goes beyond just imbuing it in your attacks like CoA. My guess is that aCoC level 2 is using CoC as literal energy that you can physically manifest into the world and weaponize even from a distance. When I see that attack Divine Departure it looks like a flying slash but at the same time the slash itself seems to be made completely of haki and not air. Where I see Luffy taking this is maybe having punches that fly e.g. if he makes contact the person is sent flying back and an energy fist will continue pushing them on its own. This also would mean Luffy can attack from a distance without stretching out his arms. An additional benefit of this level of aCoC is that the haki energy can explode causing even more damage. Obviously this is all speculation but wondering if others had thought about the next advanced haki we learn about.

 

[Fox666]

Spoiler

Whatever Shanks did, it created a circular effect similar to Whitebeard and Roger clash

I'm under the impression he released a Haki "Hadouken" at Kid?

 

[Nie Li]

Spoiler: 1079

I think her released like a Canon of haki from his sword. A new type of flying slash that's more of a thrust like what brook does

Given the position of his sword and that we saw Roger use the technique, it's definitely supposed to be a slash rather than a thrust.

What's weird is that Kid just fainted instead of going from Captain Mid to Captain Half.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Wrong thread boys lol

 

[Nie Li]

Wrong thread boys lol

True. Solved.

Spoiler: 1079

I was just reminded that Mihawk does something similar

Not quite a Canon but more of a spiral beam, only Shanks seems invisible almost. We aren't seeing the slash

I don't believe they're similar techniques other than being flying slashes.

There are some circular lines around Shanks' panel, but I don't think those are slashes, just some zoom/railgunbreaking effect. Shanks's slash goes straight through the middle of the railgun (which he was holding in front of his body) before reaching Kid's chest.

Here's how I see the slash. Just like Roger's use of the technique, it doesn't appear to be "thin" (and it also pushed Oden without really cutting him). The big red line here is the upper part of the attack, the little one is probably the point of impact, being centered on Kid and following the same angle.

Spoiler

The upper part of the railgun looks cleanly cut in half.

For reference, Roger using the technique. I believe named techniques never have been different between users unless the name is also altered.

Spoiler

 

[Fox666]

Spoiler

For reference, Roger using the technique. I believe named techniques never have been different between users unless the name is also altered.

One important detail here, Oden (who is also an ACoC user) is trying to block Kamusari with his swords but the attack goes right through his defense.

Or maybe Oden did block it, but the "shockwave" hit him?

 

[Nie Li]

Spoiler

One important detail here, Oden (who is also an ACoC user) is trying to block Kamusari with his swords but the attack goes right through his defense.

Or maybe Oden did block it, but the "shockwave" hit him?

Spoiler

This is just my personal interpretation of that scene, but I see it as the slash just going under his defense. Like a technical/subtle feet for Roger being capable of sending flying slashes under the enemy's guard rather than brute-forcing it (which he probably also could do being clearly above Oden at the time).

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Spoiler

This is just my personal interpretation of that scene, but I see it as the slash just going under his defense. Like a technical/subtle feet for Roger being capable of sending flying slashes under the enemy's guard rather than brute-forcing it (which he probably also could do being clearly above Oden at the time).

Spoiler: Spoiler

If my idea about aCoC level 2 is a thing it could just be the entire slash is composed of nothing but haki. As a result, it can't be blocked in the same way you'd block a standard air slash which is truly physical to everyone. We may end up in a territory similar to logia in paradise where no one can touch them. These pure haki attacks may be unblockable unless the user has the same aCoC level 2 to counter it. This would make aCoC the pinnacle of offense where no one other than another user can block attacks forcing them to always dodge.

 

[Nie Li]

Spoiler: Spoiler

If my idea about aCoC level 2 is a thing it could just be the entire slash is composed of nothing but haki. As a result, it can't be blocked in the same way you'd block a standard air slash which is truly physical to everyone. We may end up in a territory similar to logia in paradise where no one can touch them. These pure haki attacks may be unblockable unless the user has the same aCoC level 2 to counter it. This would make aCoC the pinnacle of offense where no one other than another user can block attacks forcing them to always dodge.

Spoiler

It's an interesting theory. Could very well be the case. But I'd leave it on the shelf as a theory until Kamusari gets explained in the manga (like in 6 more years (?)), there were also a lot of theories that looked good regarding G5.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Spoiler

It's an interesting theory. Could very well be the case. But I'd leave it on the shelf as a theory until Kamusari gets explained in the manga (like in 6 more years (?)), there were also a lot of theories that looked good regarding G5.

Spoiler

Haha yeah this is definitely some wild speculation on my part. I just think it would be cool to use haki as a physical weapon. I kind of view Kamusari like a Getsuga Tensho from Bleach except replace Reishi with Haki. The color version they showed in the anime even looks like it and we are now similarly seeing that it can potentially explode too. Hopefully don't have to wait more than a year to learn about it but knowing it involves Shanks would't be surprised if we had to wait 10 years to get explanation.

 

[Fox666]

Spoiler

Haha yeah this is definitely some wild speculation on my part. I just think it would be cool to use haki as a physical weapon. I kind of view Kamusari like a Getsuga Tensho from Bleach except replace Reishi with Haki. The color version they showed in the anime even looks like it and we are now similarly seeing that it can potentially explode too. Hopefully don't have to wait more than a year to learn about it but knowing it involves Shanks would't be surprised if we had to wait 10 years to get explanation.

I think Getsuga is a good analogy

Perhaps we shouldn't overthink it, ACoC level 2 is just Haki Getsuga

 

[XXGenesis]

Lol what are we discussing here? The nature of the attack? The difference of effect between Oden & Kidd??

It seems to be a Sword attack that has a Haki shockwave after the hit….OR

An ACoC sword strike that turns into a flying slash With ACoC Haki on it

Wither Way…*Not something unseen….BM & the Giants have a similar technique; Kaido & BM together have sent a ACoC shockwave attack…

Is there really more to dive in about this technique???

 

[Rein Avara]

Let the people discuss man, one of the few non toxic conversations we've had in a while

 

[DeadlyBeast]

We're free boys, no more spoiler tags

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 24, 2023, Original Post Date: Mar 24, 2023 ---

Lol what are we discussing here? The nature of the attack? The difference of effect between Oden & Kidd??

It seems to be a Sword attack that has a Haki shockwave after the hit….OR

An ACoC sword strike that turns into a flying slash With ACoC Haki on it

Wither Way…*Not something unseen….BM & the Giants have a similar technique; Kaido & BM together have sent a ACoC shockwave attack…

Is there really more to dive in about this technique???

At least for me what I'm discussing is the possibility that there is a second level to advanced CoC that allows the user to physically manifest haki as a weapon. What made me think this is:

• Roger's Divine Departure has his slash itself as the same color of CoC lightning
• When Shanks showed up outside Wano it appeared he literally projected CoC lightning towards Greenbull. To me this indicated the energy we've been seeing released all over the place in CoC clashes can actually be directed & controlled.
• Shanks use of Divine Departure acted as a slash that ended up exploding in all directions

So now I'm thinking that what Luffy has left to learn technique wise is mastering aCoC level 2. In my mind this could lead to Luffy actually projectile punching with haki similar to Divine Departure except a haki fist.

Specific to this chapter with Shanks attack you'll notice that neither Kid or Killer have any cuts on them. The impact of Shanks haki slash is not the same as a standard swordman air slash which is a cutting move. To me this is indicative that the attack was more like a Getsuga Tensho in Bleach, except in this case Shanks sent a slash made of haki. So I don't think its a cutting move made of air that has been imbued with haki, I think it is pure haki. One of the potential implications of this is that this can't be blocked by conventional means which may be why Kid & Killer couldn't defend. Oden received the same attack and also couldn't guard, also didn't receive any cuts. The attack in both cases knocked the person backed with a lot of force and in Shanks case even exploded in all directions.